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A reversal of the SIA Bolter Discipline ban in light of this new withering Astartes firepower era. Can even tie it to the new anti soup wording if they like

We already know that our Assault Rifles are gonna get Assault 3. The squads with Aggressors were already a decent choice, but this change makes them like SUPER dangerous and mobile.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We already know that our Assault Rifles are gonna get Assault 3. The squads with Aggressors were already a decent choice, but this change makes them like SUPER dangerous and mobile.

And not just as a shooting threat either. With the +1 A Aggressors got, plus Shock Assault you're looking at a unit putting out eight S8 AP2 Dd3 attacks on the charge (with the nearly obligatory sarge PF).

Sterling191 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We already know that our Assault Rifles are gonna get Assault 3. The squads with Aggressors were already a decent choice, but this change makes them like SUPER dangerous and mobile.

And not just as a shooting threat either. With the +1 A Aggressors got, plus Shock Assault you're looking at a unit putting out eight S8 AP2 Dd3 attacks on the charge (with the nearly obligatory sarge PF).

And let’s not forget aggressors are now 3W so that T5 Primaris unit just got a little tougher as well still using the intercessors as ablative wounds

I'm actually thinking of getting some intercessors for auto rifles and using with them aggressors and inceptor mix and match, with the extra wounds, attacks and how mobile they can be by moving and running every turn, if assaulted being able to still shoot if you pull out all carrying assault weapons.

I doubt i'd need more troop squads with three tooled out vet squads and 2 intercessor hell blaster groups and these two new squads. Just waiting to see what all shakes out from the updates when the marine codex drops.

Any new units confirmed for DW with new codex?

We have no idea what, if any, new units DW will be able to take.

 grouchoben wrote:

- Real winner is our assault bolt rifle. 3 shots with an aggressor along for the ride to allow them to always advance and shoot with no penalty is really big. I and a lot of other DW players have been running 5 assualt intercessors and an aggressor for a while, and this really helps them. As does...
- 3W for aggressors and inceptors. Very nice due to the prevalence of D2 weapons.

5 ABR+4 Aggressor+1 Inceptor has been one of my staple units since the Codex. Really crazy excited for this as they're easily one of my favorite configs.

I do like that between this a Vet squad and a BR+Hellblaster units, it really feels like we can run 3 distinct and viable Kill Teams in our lists.

If the new strategems go live, Stalker Bolt Rifles can target characters, do 2 damage per shot, and do mortal wounds on 6. That is too good to pass up on intercessors.

What's the math on that against Custodes targets? Genuinely curious.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's the math on that against Custodes targets? Genuinely curious.

Best case scenario (Hellfire, Watch Master Aura, compatible mission tactics, no cover, no Vexilla support, no SS) it takes a smidge over three shots to kill a single Custodian Guard.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If the new strategems go live, Stalker Bolt Rifles can target characters, do 2 damage per shot, and do mortal wounds on 6. That is too good to pass up on intercessors.

But it's only 1 shot per model. Assault 3 Autobolters with AP-1 (Tactical Doctrine) have far more uses, ESPECIALLY if you get to use SIA and Combat Doctrines together (which is yet to be confirmed, but I'd be surprise if they don't get it since it HAS been confirmed they'll get Angels of Death via FAQ)

If you can use both, I'll that the 3 shots wounding on 2+ at AP-1 all day over the 1-shot-wonder that requires precious CPs

-

 Galef wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If the new strategems go live, Stalker Bolt Rifles can target characters, do 2 damage per shot, and do mortal wounds on 6. That is too good to pass up on intercessors.

But it's only 1 shot per model. Assault 3 Autobolters with AP-1 (Tactical Doctrine) have far more uses, ESPECIALLY if you get to use SIA and Combat Doctrines together (which is yet to be confirmed, but I'd be surprise if they don't get it since it HAS been confirmed they'll get Angels of Death via FAQ)

If you can use both, I'll that the 3 shots wounding on 2+ at AP-1 all day over the 1-shot-wonder that requires precious CPs

-

Auto-hitting Hellfire overwatch anyone?

So Plasceptors. Are they now approaching auto include for us?

We're going to have access to some of the best chaff clearing T1 shots in the game with vets stepping out of Pods, and plasceptors big weakness is being easily screened out. Combine that with our limited AT options, and their +1W buff and they're starting to look mighty fine.

 Galef wrote:
ESPECIALLY if you get to use SIA and Combat Doctrines together (which is yet to be confirmed, but I'd be surprise if they don't get it since it HAS been confirmed they'll get Angels of Death via FAQ)

Combat Doctrines is not Part of Angels of Death. They are two different Special Rules on the same tier in the hierarchy. Angels of Death only consists of ATSKNF, Bolter Discipline and Shock Assault.

 grouchoben wrote:
So Plasceptors. Are they now approaching auto include for us?

We're going to have access to some of the best chaff clearing T1 shots in the game with vets stepping out of Pods, and plasceptors big weakness is being easily screened out. Combine that with our limited AT options, and their +1W buff and they're starting to look mighty fine.

Still 60 points a pop, and still exquisitely vulnerable to hit maluses. I dont know that the +1W is going to be much of a difference maker. Every gun on the board is still going to be trained on them the instant they make landfall.

Dont get me wrong, I love my plinceptors and they do serious work. If you ran em before theyre gonna be better, but I dont think its enough of a change for folks who didnt want to run them to now start running them.

I run plasma inceptors in my list and they are very good if used correctly, I drop them in with a smash captain and a big mixed kill team so everyone gets re rolls.

I've had them kill land raiders and defilers etc in one pop but they need to be positioned well which isn't always easy, and I usually suicidally drop them into a stupid location.

New rules are up, and DW got, unsurprisingly, completely fethed.

Didn't even update the Chaplains or the Watch Master reroll wording. Good thing they reiterated that SIA doesn't get Bolter Discipline.

 Chris521 wrote:
Didn't even update the Chaplains or the Watch Master reroll wording. Good thing they reiterated that SIA doesn't get Bolter Discipline.

Which is stupid if they're not going to give us the new units.

 Chris521 wrote:
Didn't even update the Chaplains or the Watch Master reroll wording.

Yeah, thats the baffling part. Chappys are a completely redesigned unit now, but non-Codex SM armies cant take them. And dont get me started on locking DW out of the entire line of new units.

Feels like we're back to the Index days.

OUCH. That's the army placed way behind the power curve.

 grouchoben wrote:
OUCH. That's the army placed way behind the power curve.

Its GW saying "we dont want your money" and I do not remotely understand it.

It's a bummer and no mistake. I think it's just conservative design. Leaves us leaning into SB/SS builds, and still a bit baffled about AT. Suppressors and Eliminators would have been great for DW.

The entire phobos line is tailor made for Deathwatch. And now Deathwatch is the only army that can’t use it.

GW logic in action.

It's not all bad. We benefit more than most from the changes to Gravis armor and Assault Bolters. Shock Assault makes some vet builds worth reconsidering (before realizing we should be in melee) and its not like we didn't have a little extra ground to give. We're not getting Phobos armor until they release a kit that has a modular shouldpad spot anyway.

I expect they didnt include any of the vanguard units because it requires a touch more rules writing than a simple plugin PDF, due to mixed units (and to a lesser extent, SIA). We'll probably have to wait until the next codex to get the fancy toys. (mixed phobos squads?)

Expected the absolute minimum and got it. Here's hoping we eventually get added to the supplement system. The different Astartes books being all over the place is getting really old.

 McGibs wrote:
I expect they didnt include any of the vanguard units because it requires a touch more rules writing than a simple plugin PDF, due to mixed units (and to a lesser extent, SIA). We'll probably have to wait until the next codex to get the fancy toys. (mixed phobos squads?)

Infantry is slightly complicated, im not disputing that. It'll likely end up being a Phobos only Fortis Kill Team datasheet.

In the interim they could have easily just added the vanilla datasheets (its not like we dont have standalone Aggressors or Inceptors or Hellblasters). Same for the vehicles. But nope, cant actually look like they did something resembling work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LunarSol wrote:
It's not all bad. We benefit more than most from the changes to Gravis armor and Assault Bolters. Shock Assault makes some vet builds worth reconsidering (before realizing we should be in melee) and its not like we didn't have a little extra ground to give. We're not getting Phobos armor until they release a kit that has a modular shouldpad spot anyway.

Yet we already have Rievers. And while I like A3 on ABRs, without a cost effective delivery mechanism, foot slogging is still a pain (even with turbo-boosting from an Aggressor friend).

Assault bolters and TH Sarges+Blackshields and 3w Inceptors+Aggressors are all great stuff to be sure.

T1 Pods also opens up some shenaingans.

and I guess we got one more new unit than Grey Knights