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Elfric wrote:Does a Deathwatch Chaplain have access to that new relic crozius?
I dont believe so.
Hesselhof wrote:
is it possible to use stratagems from the new SM codex to DW, if the keyword effects ASTARTES?
Yes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: So what are people thinking, a Dark Angels Libby and some scouts in a patrol for -1hit Aversion, and unlocking TH Physiognomy?
If you're looking for utility psykers, I think the White Scars discipline is the best of the bunch right now. They can speed up your units, slow down your enemies units, blam things for MW out of LoS, deny overwatch, and more.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/02 12:40:13
The only powers that require <chapter> are the buffs (and given how spicy of a beatstick you can make with successor rules and WSWL traits / strats, you're gonna want the option). All the rest are targetable on your opponent.
Well that was a short-lived discussion! New SMFAQ confirms that DW units cannot use SM Stratagems even if the list contains a SM detachment. Guess they really don't want us having transhuman physiognomy!
Ah well, never mind. I take it as a good sign that there's something in the pipeline for us ...
DW Chaplain Dreads get litanies (and they also keep their old +1strength aura). I was already taking one before because character dreads are clutch, but now... oo boy.
Thinking the +1s +1a +1d self buff for a truly terrifying smashnought. 6x WS2 Str 16 -3Ap 4D attacks will flatten anything.
Or combine the +1 to wound buff with big intergressor squads and the +1 to wound strat to chew through any target you can sprint up to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/02 18:06:32
Sad to see the strats get book locked, but so it goes. Litany Chappy dread is certainly one to keep an eye on.
They did fix their hilariously bungled Aggressor/Reiver update though. Terror troops is back to being squad wide, and it stacks to the standard -3. Perma-double tapping Aggressors in Overwatch also makes big Fortis teams a daunting proposition to charge.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Presented without comment, from the Non-Codex Marines Eratta document:
Combat Doctrines is a new ability exclusive to Codex: Space Marines – units in Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Deathwatch Detachments (or in Detachments of any of their successor Chapters) cannot currently make use of this ability.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/02 19:31:49
It'll be gone as a loophole soon enough, so I wouldn't jump on it. If GW want new Chaplains to be Codex compliant only, then they will be. Mind you, I rate Chaplain dreads anyway...
Well, Deathwatch will do alright regardless sucks to have the strats book locked the sadness fills me more. However do you really think that hints to us getting a new book soonish ? I don't know with all the stuff on the horizon we may just be left out in the cold for a relatively long time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/03 05:40:27
I'm worried this abomination of a Marine book is the last codex for some time. We still have a ton of potent Marine supplements to get through.
They are talking about enough Vigilus type books to hit every faction 2-3 at a time. That's gonna take a while interspersed with AoS Specialist etc.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
The funny thing is, in germany it´s kinda meta, to play 3 termis with cyclone in killteams XD (not really meta but there some list´s like this killteams)
Full reroll? only missed you mean? o.O or is there an FAQ i missed?
Nah, we're still stuck with the borked rerolls. Its just how i shorthand differentiate between Master (full rerolls) and Captain (reroll 1s) auras.
Hesselhof wrote: The funny thing is, in germany it´s kinda meta, to play 3 termis with cyclone in killteams XD (not really meta but there some list´s like this killteams)
If you can keep them in cover and screened out from melee they can do work for sure. But...oof. I play on tables with a lot of terrain and its damn hard to keep 10-mans hunkered down. I'd personally drop the twin CC battalion and see if you can squeeze in another combat squad bike/VV team. Those are gold.
I cuted the third termi with cyclone in eacht team for an normal for more tankiness i will defenetly do a test game i wan´t to know if its work^^ otherwise i gues it´s a funny list lol^^
Admech & Deathwatch --------------------------------------
Don´t Hessel the Hof
Sounds like they updated the errata to fix it. Didn’t even manage to get a single game in with one. Oh well.
I am, however, coming around on the Stalkergressor team (5x Intercessors w/ Stalkers, 1x Aggressor). Second game in a row where they locked down my midfield, soaked a ton of fire and blasted chunks out of big things (plus the Aggressors did work on scarab hordes). It’s still early, but I’m definitely keeping them as an option moving forward.
Again, Maelstrom, this time Tactical Cascade. Win first turn, opponent chooses Dawn of War deployment zones. Forward deploy the scouts out of LoS, Eliminator teams hunkered down as well but within range of the enemy with their rifles. Missile/Rifle teams take up second floor perches to cover most of the board. Intergressors, Smashy, Libby and Bike teams deploy on the line. Opponent counterdeploys with the bulk of his forces behind LoS blockers, but leaves his DDAs and Destroyers visible One DDA with the Heavy Destroyers on a corner hill.
Turn 1:
Spoiler:
Leapfrog the bike teams into midfield LoS blocking ruins with the intention of forcing his DDAs to come off their perches if they want to engage. Stalkergressors take up position to support a Scout team in the center of the map, and get shooting lanes on both Destroyers and Wraiths. Smashy and Libby Manage to down two Destroyers and three Wraiths in shooting. Libby calls down the lightning for a mortal wound on the C'tan, but crucially gets off the "you cant advance, and you only roll 1d6 for a charge" power on the same target, leaving it stranded just outside the center ruins. Crucially, the Eliminators down both Crypteks with non-LoS fire. Opponent succesfully resurrects one, but crucially it wasnt the one with the Invuln aura. Scarabs screening the C'tan scrag their charge role, and dont make it to my Scouts turn 1. One DDA moves forward to hose down the Stalkergressors, but rolls horrifically. C'tan sprinkles a few mortal wounds across midfield teams, but nothing too bad (Primaris capacity to eat d3 mortal wound hits is awesome when all you're used to is Vets). Shooting from the DDAs mostly plinks off Storm Shields on the missile teams, but does whittle away at one of the Stalkergressor units. Wraiths make their charge against a bike team, but the VanVet shields hold, and I kill one Wraith on the counter charge
Turn 2:
Spoiler:
Stabby drops behind the DDA/Heavy Destroyer formation. Bike team moves up to point blank range in support, and melts two heavies with Inferno pistols. Libby again bogs down the C'tan, but doesnt pull of Lightning Call. Fortis Team drops out of deepstrike and liquefies the advancing DDA. Plasma Kill Team whittles off a few wounds from the stationary DDA and locks down an objective. Stalkergressors, Scouts and Bikes combine to badly maul the Wraiths. Stabby and Smashy go in, and get gak done. Stabby accounts for most of a DDA, the resurrected Crypetk, and the last Heavy Destroyer by himself. Smashy knocks the C'Tan down to one wound, but gets killed on the counterswing so I have him go down swinging and pulverize the C'tan. Scarabs make it to the Scouts, but the mini-lads hold their ground, and with ObSec keep that objective. Wraiths again bounce off the shields of the bike team. Tesla Immortals move up and hose down the Vet team, but the Terminator makes ~18 saves before going down, and the rest ping harmlessly off of 3+s. Destroyers move up to take on the Fortis team, but only manage to down two Intercessors.
Turn 3:
Spoiler:
Left side Bike team makes it to second floor ruins to pour enfillading fire down on one pod of Tesla Immortals, while the Vet team moves in to provide high AP support plasma fire. Third Scout team jumps out of the ruin theyd been hiding in all game to secure the objective the Vet team vacates. Fortis team moves up and finishes off the Destroyers while the Eliminators sprinkle wounds everywhere. Wraiths go down to Scout bolters. Right side Bike team makes a mad dash across the table and makes it inside the ruin the Warriors had been hunkering in. Libby knocks the smite out of the park, and with the help of supporting fire from an Aggressor clears the scarabs out of the center objective. Bike and Vet teams open up, and when the dust settles all that is left is Imhotek and a squad of Immortals. Opponent concedes at this point.
Takeaways:
Less optimal matchup than last time, but much closer to a "real world" scenario. Had multiple vees to deal with, and Quantum Shielding is always a bitch and a half.
Eliminators were without question MVPs again. Knocking down resurrection protocol support, Invuln save support and redeploy support took the enemy off at the knees from the opening salvo. Stalkers again pulled their weight surprisingly well, both in chunking biker equivalents, but also in punching hunkered infantry out of cover (Warlord was running with Nowhere to Hide tonight, and that turned what would normally be a 2+ Immortal base save into a flat 5+ for the Stalkers). Stabby did muuuuuch better for himself this week. He folded the enemy left flank all by himself, freeing up my flanking bike team to hit the entrenched Immortals hard.
Libby's understated contribution of bogging down the enemy's main melee and mortal wound threat did not go unnoticed. That C'Tan is usually my number one issue as it throws mortals out like nobody's business.
So a real quick question with the most recent FAQs does that change now how the aggressors work with our fortis teams now ? I only glanced over it so I'm just checking for the cause as I just got some Aggressors for my ABR teams
AngryAngel80 wrote: So a real quick question with the most recent FAQs does that change now how the aggressors work with our fortis teams now ? I only glanced over it so I'm just checking for the cause as I just got some Aggressors for my ABR teams
Agressors shoot twice if they stand still - the shooting twice thing only applies to them either in a killteam or in an agressor squad. The killteam buff from agressors is moving and firing with no penalty. No other models get the shoot twice ability.
The FAQ allowed the new versions of their abilities to work with Fortis Kill teams. Previously, because of the shoddy wording, Fortis squads were stuck with the pre-C:SM 2.0 functionality
Sterling191 wrote: The FAQ allowed the new versions of their abilities to work with Fortis Kill teams. Previously, because of the shoddy wording, Fortis squads were stuck with the pre-C:SM 2.0 functionality
There's a concerning argument I've seen used that you might have to deal with in games against particularly competitive types. The change to these abilities now applies to the keyword, but the Intercessors unit doesn't gain the Aggressors or Reiver keyword. Don't fret - there's no reason to worry about this outside of a tournament (where somebody absolutely will try to pull this gak).
Because it's a bonkers limitation to even contemplate I wouldn't worry about it. Intention could not be more clear. After all, you don't put rules in a data sheet that can't ever be used. Just be aware somebody might want to rule lawyer away those abilities for you - don't let 'em
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 11:43:04
Sterling191 wrote: The FAQ allowed the new versions of their abilities to work with Fortis Kill teams. Previously, because of the shoddy wording, Fortis squads were stuck with the pre-C:SM 2.0 functionality
There's a concerning argument I've seen used that you might have to deal with in games against particularly competitive types. The change to these abilities now applies to the keyword, but the Intercessors unit doesn't gain the Aggressors or Reiver keyword. Don't fret - there's no reason to worry about this outside of a tournament (where somebody absolutely will try to pull this gak).
Because it's a bonkers limitation to even contemplate I wouldn't worry about it. Intention could not be more clear. After all, you don't put rules in a data sheet that can't ever be used. Just be aware somebody might want to rule lawyer away those abilities for you - don't let 'em
The FAQ actually deals with this. The new wording keys off of both keywords and the individual model names.
Intercessors (Deathwatch), Terror Troops Change this ability to read: ‘Whilst any Reiver units or units which contain any Reiver models from your army are within 3" of any enemy units, subtract 1 from the Leadership characteristic of each of those enemy units for each Reiver unit or unit which contains any Reiver models from your army that is within 3" of that enemy unit (to a maximum of -3).’
Intercessors (Deathwatch), Fire Storm Change this ability to read: ‘When this unit fires Overwatch or is chosen to shoot with, Aggressor models in this unit can shoot twice if this unit did not move this turn.’
Bolded for clarity.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 11:53:21
Any thoughts on the following unit(s) since the FAQ:
A) 5 ABR Intercessors w/ Power Fist Sgt, 1 Flamestorm Aggressor & 1 Plasma Inceptor
Or B) 6 ABR Intercessor w/ 2 Aggressors & 2 Inceptors. Combat Squad for 3/1/1 in each unit
What I like about unit A is that the Aggressor & Inceptor bonuses affect more models. And with Shock assault, you get 8 Power fist attacks most of the time (Aggressor + Sgt)
What I like about unit B is that each unit gets to T5 sooner by only losing 1 Intercessor. And if taking multiples of this combo means you get more Aggressors & Inceptors (1 of each per 3 Intercessors, rather than only 1 per 5)
With both Aggressors & Inceptors getting +1W, that gives the units a bit of staying power and ABRs being 3 shots gets quite a bit of bang for your buck.
At first I was liking unit B, but the more I think on it, unit A seems better
Flamestorms are a hard pass. Plinceptors are ok, but an ABR/Aggresor team is built to move and will more often than not be out of reroll auras, so no overcharging.
Second squad is putting a lot of points in for limited benefit. You're one gravis model away from hitting the T5 threshold, and you *really* dont want to bump ~140 points of Gravis lads down to T4 just to do combat squad silliness. There are better options for that (BIKES).
Sterling191 wrote: Flamestorms are a hard pass. Plinceptors are ok, but an ABR/Aggresor team is built to move and will more often than not be out of reroll auras, so no overcharging.
Second squad is putting a lot of points in for limited benefit. You're one gravis model away from hitting the T5 threshold, and you *really* dont want to bump ~140 points of Gravis lads down to T4 just to do combat squad silliness. There are better options for that (BIKES).
BIKES aren't allowing in Primaris units, but I see what you mean. Agree on the combat squad bit. I really like the idea of it, but it just doesn't seem to benefit the unit as much as just adding 1Agg/1Inceptor to a unit of 5 Intercessors.
But why are Flamstorms a "hard pass". The Bolt storm gauntlets are the hard pass IMO, because they do not get SIA. Granted, neither do the Flamestorms, but they do 26d auto-hits, which is more that 6-d6 shots from the Bolts. And having 5 ABRs with SIA should fill the range Dakka need for the unit. The Flamers just offer something the unit doesn't get elsewhere. Combined with the Inceptor, you can charge a unit, and next turn fall back and flame them, then be a charge deterrent since the 1 Aggressor would get 4d6 auto-hits in Overwatch.
Overall, I'm looking for a Primaris loadout that is an all-rounder to build the list around. I know TACs isn't the best approach for Marines competitively, but it's fluffy and I think DW Primaris come as close to standard "Movie-Marines" as you can get.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/04 13:31:04
BIKES aren't allowing in Primaris units, but I see what you mean.
Agree on the combat squad bit. I really like the idea of it, but it just doesn't seem to benefit the unit as much as just adding 1Agg/1Inceptor to a unit of 5 Intercessors.
But why are Flamstorms a "hard pass". The Bolt storm gauntlets are the hard pass IMO, because they do not get SIA. Granted, neither do the Flamestorms, but they do 26d auto-hits, which is more that 6-d6 shots from the Bolts. And having 5 ABRs with SIA should fill the Dakka need for the unit. The Flamers just offer something the unit doesn't get elsewhere.
Combined with the Inceptor, you can charge a unit, fall back and flame them, then be a charge deterrent since the 1 Aggressor would get 4d6 auto-hits in Overwatch.
Overall, I'm looking for a Primaris loadout that is an all-rounder to build the list around. I know TACs isn't the best approach for Marines competitively, but it's fluffy and I think DW Primaris come as close to standard "Movie-Marines" as you can get.
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Aggressors dont need SIA to murderize things (they would legitimately be broken if they had access to it). Weight of dice (and carefully applied +1 to wound stratagems) do the work. They also have a range bracket that means they can actually contribute to their squad after things like Beacon shunts or teleport strikes. Furthermore, Aggressor fists are their own charge deterrent for all but the most committed melee specialists. You do *not* want to eat 16 punches and 4 powerfists from an almost MSU team.
If you want an "all-rounder" Fortis unit, go 5x ABR +1 Bolter Aggressor. If you're dead set on combat squadding down to 5 man teams, go 6x ABR, 2x Reiver, 2x Bolter Aggressor and take an even 3/1/1 split.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/04 13:44:33
Admech & Deathwatch
