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grouchoben wrote: I'm a huge fan of DS 6-man aggressor bombs - before they were a bit fire and forget, now they got some lovely buffs. -1 on the turn they drop and a great choice for transhuman, and well positioned to use +wound litanies. In a clutch situation and if you can stack +1wound they can drop the equivalent of an average of 57 S8 -1 1d shots for some viable AT too.
They're a bargain for 222pts.
You can't use Litanies on a Deep Striking unit.
You can always do this:
1) Have the blob of aggressor/intercessor on table right next to chaplain at the start, chant your litanies @ start of the turn.
2) Deepstrike turn 2 / or move your character with the beacon angelis to where you needed
3) Slingshot that squad of aggressor/intercessor buffed by litany forward near the beacon
4) unleashed the dakka
There is nothing like watching your opponent realize you can slingshot a whole squad of aggressor/intercessor really close to his units.
Random question on mixed units; as we all know 5 intercessors and 5 aggressors gets us a neat T5 unit as the controlling player can choose if there is not a majority toughness. If this unit was almost wiped out and I had 2 aggressors and 1 intercessor left, I could potentially use something like might of heroes to buff 1 aggressor up to T6, now making a 3 way tie and making what's left of the unit T6. As the mixed unit rule on the datasheet simply says the controlling player can choose in the event of a tie, would it be feasible to pick T6 (say from might of heroes on an aggressor again) during any other combination of models - such as if only 1 casualty has been taken (4x T4 intercessors, 4x T5 agressors and 1 T6 might of heroes aggressor)? It seems a bit gamey, but could be a way of getting a slightly worse version of transhuman physiology onto a second unit.
Insularum wrote: Random question on mixed units; as we all know 5 intercessors and 5 aggressors gets us a neat T5 unit as the controlling player can choose if there is not a majority toughness. If this unit was almost wiped out and I had 2 aggressors and 1 intercessor left, I could potentially use something like might of heroes to buff 1 aggressor up to T6, now making a 3 way tie and making what's left of the unit T6. As the mixed unit rule on the datasheet simply says the controlling player can choose in the event of a tie, would it be feasible to pick T6 (say from might of heroes on an aggressor again) during any other combination of models - such as if only 1 casualty has been taken (4x T4 intercessors, 4x T5 agressors and 1 T6 might of heroes aggressor)? It seems a bit gamey, but could be a way of getting a slightly worse version of transhuman physiology onto a second unit.
Technically, you might be able to do that.
That being said, I'd ask a TO how they'd rule if you were taking that a tournament, and just... Not do that in friendly games. Feels very janky, but also RAW.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Insularum wrote: Random question on mixed units; as we all know 5 intercessors and 5 aggressors gets us a neat T5 unit as the controlling player can choose if there is not a majority toughness. If this unit was almost wiped out and I had 2 aggressors and 1 intercessor left, I could potentially use something like might of heroes to buff 1 aggressor up to T6, now making a 3 way tie and making what's left of the unit T6. As the mixed unit rule on the datasheet simply says the controlling player can choose in the event of a tie, would it be feasible to pick T6 (say from might of heroes on an aggressor again) during any other combination of models - such as if only 1 casualty has been taken (4x T4 intercessors, 4x T5 agressors and 1 T6 might of heroes aggressor)? It seems a bit gamey, but could be a way of getting a slightly worse version of transhuman physiology onto a second unit.
Technically, you might be able to do that.
That being said, I'd ask a TO how they'd rule if you were taking that a tournament, and just... Not do that in friendly games. Feels very janky, but also RAW.
Definitely agreed on it not being polite!
Loosely on the topic of kill teams with aggressors, has anyone had any luck with a turn 1 beacon angelis slingshot? An advancing jump captain seems like he could drag them into cover in an annoying spot.
Loosely on the topic of kill teams with aggressors, has anyone had any luck with a turn 1 beacon angelis slingshot? An advancing jump captain seems like he could drag them into cover in an annoying spot.
The issue with a turn 1 beacon drop is that it generally involves exposing both the slingshotting unit and the beaconed unit. Being able to coordinate with drops out of teleportarium, as well as T2 moves, generally pays better dividends for me, but there's always niche cases depending on the facts on the group.
Insularum wrote: Random question on mixed units; as we all know 5 intercessors and 5 aggressors gets us a neat T5 unit as the controlling player can choose if there is not a majority toughness. If this unit was almost wiped out and I had 2 aggressors and 1 intercessor left, I could potentially use something like might of heroes to buff 1 aggressor up to T6, now making a 3 way tie and making what's left of the unit T6. As the mixed unit rule on the datasheet simply says the controlling player can choose in the event of a tie, would it be feasible to pick T6 (say from might of heroes on an aggressor again) during any other combination of models - such as if only 1 casualty has been taken (4x T4 intercessors, 4x T5 agressors and 1 T6 might of heroes aggressor)? It seems a bit gamey, but could be a way of getting a slightly worse version of transhuman physiology onto a second unit.
I'm not sure I follow in the second example. How could you choose T6 if it isn't a tie for majority? Wouldn't the unit now be T4 since it would be the majority toughness?
2 T5, 1T4 ... MoH makes it 1 T6, 1 T5, 1 T4. Seems perfectly fine to me, and not very powerful, so I don't see why a TO would stop you from following the rules.
Insularum wrote: Random question on mixed units; as we all know 5 intercessors and 5 aggressors gets us a neat T5 unit as the controlling player can choose if there is not a majority toughness. If this unit was almost wiped out and I had 2 aggressors and 1 intercessor left, I could potentially use something like might of heroes to buff 1 aggressor up to T6, now making a 3 way tie and making what's left of the unit T6. As the mixed unit rule on the datasheet simply says the controlling player can choose in the event of a tie, would it be feasible to pick T6 (say from might of heroes on an aggressor again) during any other combination of models - such as if only 1 casualty has been taken (4x T4 intercessors, 4x T5 agressors and 1 T6 might of heroes aggressor)? It seems a bit gamey, but could be a way of getting a slightly worse version of transhuman physiology onto a second unit.
I'm not sure I follow in the second example. How could you choose T6 if it isn't a tie for majority? Wouldn't the unit now be T4 since it would be the majority toughness?
The rule entry doesn't state you have to pick from the tied highest toughness values, i.e.
A. If there is a clear majority you must pick it
B. If there is not a clear majority you can pick from the available toughness values in the unit
grouchoben wrote:2 T5, 1T4 ... MoH makes it 1 T6, 1 T5, 1 T4. Seems perfectly fine to me, and not very powerful, so I don't see why a TO would stop you from following the rules.
3 models at T6 isn't the issue, more that you could do it on any odd sized unit by being selective on which casualties you pick up which could lead to a 9 man T6 squad.
For the 2nd example I would think it's tie between 4xT4 and 4xT5 so you use T5 rather than the lone guy's T6. Or is 40k's rules so silly that as long as it's any tie you can choose T of minority rather than from those that ties?
1xT4, 1xT5, 1xT6 sure T6 is there no problem. Though T6 is one of the least useful T values so rarely much use.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/20 08:33:40
Loosely on the topic of kill teams with aggressors, has anyone had any luck with a turn 1 beacon angelis slingshot? An advancing jump captain seems like he could drag them into cover in an annoying spot.
The issue with a turn 1 beacon drop is that it generally involves exposing both the slingshotting unit and the beaconed unit. Being able to coordinate with drops out of teleportarium, as well as T2 moves, generally pays better dividends for me, but there's always niche cases depending on the facts on the group.
Yeah, it probably is too exposed. I'm going to have a play around with this and maybe a canticle of hate jump chaplain version to see if it can work, transhuman physiology should at least make it a pain to remove the squad which should take some heat off of everything else.
Loosely on the topic of kill teams with aggressors, has anyone had any luck with a turn 1 beacon angelis slingshot? An advancing jump captain seems like he could drag them into cover in an annoying spot.
In my recent list, 1 run a Drop pod with 7 SBSS Vets, Liby with Beacon (with veil of time and the FNP against MW spell), Inquisitor with Deny Overwatch and 5++ spells and a Watchmaster. They drop turn 1, then I use the beacon to port in a 5 Intercessor , 3 Aggressor, 2 Inceptor unit( which get all the psi buffs) Has some nice alpha strike potential and a decent chance to get in CC with the large blob, but is susceptible to screening (which has become less of a problem with all those mono marine builds...) and auspex scan (which can be used on the intercessors, but not on the vets/chars). It's definitely fun to play, but since the tournaments I weanted to try this list in where cancelled due to corona, it was only tested in semi-competitive environment...With the new rules, I have to try to get a chappy in range for the +2"-Charge aura - does the affected unit need to be in 6" of the chappy when charging or when the litany is used? The latter would be far easier to achive...
Edit: Ok, the unit has to be in range of the chappy when charging - this means a jump pack and some conga lining and a decent battle plan when setting up... makes things more complicated...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/20 10:17:25
How are you guys gearing VVs for inclusion in vet squads for the special fall back rule? My gut instinct is to keep them cheep and cheerful with paired bolt pistols. You don’t want them eating wounds early, so I’d rather have more firepower then the SS. Even if it’s just another pistol shot. With special ammo, I don’t know if it’s worth the points for one of the special pistols (plasma/grav/handflamer)
A CC toy would not be out of line, but they are mostly there to let you maximize shooting. If you get tri-pointed, it could help cut the squad out.
Thoughts?
(Vet squads are still being built, but focused on shooting. Sarge/blacksheid (in made) would have CC gear, TDA with powersword)
For competitive level play, pistol and shield. The second SIA shot isnt worth giving up the survivability.
For friendly play, go to town. I semi-regularly run twin Infernos on my designated VV in 10-man Vet squads at my LGS and they absolutely throw people for a loop.
My limited stock of stomshields is going towards stombolter/stomshield vets. Although at 2ppm I can see the survivability boost being more relevant then the shot.
I realized that my supply of left handed bolt pistols was largely consumed in a 30k destroyer project that was abandoned. So it was either go with alternate pistols, do a lot of chopping, or just pop some shoulderpads off.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Try using the melee weapon packs from FW. Decent amount t of left handed pistols plus you get some awesome weapons too.
I’ve occasionally drooled over a lot of FW stuff. My Deathwatch are honestly a tertiary army, after my Ultras and Eldar. There are limits of what I’m willing to invest in them. And if I’m going to buy FW stuff, there is a long list of things ahead of some spare weapons in the queue. My DW is basically built out of my extensive bits box and a SC box. And a lot of spare marine bodies.
And at the end of the day, I’m a casual player, so don’t need to worry about peak efficiency. But I do like know what it is, and bouncing ideas around off of other players to check if I’m missing something critical.
My DW is basically built out of my extensive bits box and a SC box. And a lot of spare marine bodies.
In fairness, that's how many Deathwatch armies are built in my experience. One of the big appeals IMO is the artistic freedom to approach them from really any angle you want.
For the VV in Veteran squads I prefer dual BPs. Storm Shields go on the regular PA guys but I usually want to keep the VV alive until last so I can Fall Back and shoot so the extra survivability isn't worth it. Still, it's not like a SS is expensive or the extra BP is brilliant or anything so I don't think it's wrong to give them a SS.
Okay, let me pick your brains a little on AT, the nemesis of Deathwatch.
Here are my top four contenders, assuming we want to go pure to unlock doctrines. Really appreciate your choice of the four, along with your reasoning behind it. Here goes:
1) SCA Leviathan and a pair of Las-mortis dreads.
Obvious, chunky, come loaded with invulns, make use of the lovely new* dread strat. Leviathan is a bit short range but with Big Guns it now has a threat range of 32", which is sure to be enought to reach out and touch something of high value. Mortis are quality AT and as a bonus unlock the Lev's relic tax with ease.
2) Hellblasters. All of them.
We take a unit of ten deepstriking, and two fortis teams stacked with 5 each. Synergises well with our obvious focus on infantry, and are +to wound abilities, and the new* Chaplain litanies to make them safe to overcharge. 20 Hellblaster shots DSing in is a serious game changer often enough, and a hell-fortis with the beacon can likewise maximise rangebands very easily. Added coolness because every other SM commander has left Hellblasters for dead, and so the hipster in all of us (you play Deathwatch! Don't even deny it!) gets their day in the sun.
3) 2 Xiphons and a Corvus.
In one sense the most fragile pick of the four, in another the most durable. With ITC rules now giving second player full sight of the deployment, the 50" range of these badboys can often deny most firepower on turn one. Conversely if they get turn one, not very much can hide from them. The single Corvus is an odd pick and probably not quite optimal, BUT the new* Big Guns strat does make it a not-bad unit now, and its carry capacity can be clutch (it doesn't have to be a full ten-man squad in there - a single jump cap can get a lot of benefit from it too.) Two xiphons cross-stitching the board, getting first turn with full rerolls to hit, reroll 1s to wound, extra doctrinal ap, and at least one on +1 to wound is a very dangerous AT setup. The corvus is wildcard, getting to be anywhere on the board hitting 3+ rerolling 1s against ground targets, which is useful in its own right.
4) another batallion, stupid.
Five more CP and much more dakka is a valid option here. If you stack bonuses litanies and strats every one of our troops choices is capable of doing way more than chip-damage. Plus you will often choose to ignore your opponents heavy elements, obliterate their troops, and win the groundwar.
I fully expect him to get krunked with the nerfbat soon enough in the FW redux, because I think hes the cheeziest unit in the game atm. BTW the list isn't mean to be exhausitve, just four ideas for strong AT in the faction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/12 13:49:03
Been out of the game over a year and thinking of playing again when current events have calmed down.
Seems like there have been some major changes to space marines and some minor recent changes with deathwatch just got a couple of questions:
1) Does bolter discipline still not play nicely with special ammo?
2) Now we have doctrines do we now play nicely with other chapters? and if allied with other chapters do they still get their super doctrine?
Finally the question the others are building up to:
3) I would quite like to add a spear head off eliminators to my deathwatch forces what would be an effective way to do this? Its mainly for the aesthetics but having them provide some anti-character or even armour fire power with the Las fusils would be nice.
Been thinking raven guard with bolt rifles or ironhands with las fusils if they get their super doctrines. If not maybe successors using Bolter Fusilades and Stealthy tactics with bolt rifles? (read a post somewhere that sucessor chapters get the founding chapters super doctrine but this seems unlikely to me, is this true?)
Sterling191 wrote: If you ally Deathwatch with Marines you will not get super-doctrines.
Bolter discipline does not work with SIA (feth you GW).
Eliminators are exceptional. Run em in their sniper form as a successor chapter with Master Artisans and you'll terrify every character on the table.
Awesome, that's great to know. Pity about the ammo and the superdoctrines (was looking forward to Ravenguard character hunters), but seems fair. Good shout on the master artisans, with the low number of shots that will be very helpful and seems appropriate for Deathwatch snipers.
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