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One termi is still a great shout - the question is do we still need two?

I'm inclined to say no.

 grouchoben wrote:
One termi is still a great shout - the question is do we still need two?

I'm inclined to say no.

Very hard to answer without knowing what our day 1 rules FAQ and points updates look like. I personally think we're going to need to lean into the assault role more, so having more power weapon toting terminators (who consequently may or may not still make us immune to a more punishing morale phase) isnt necessarily a negative in my book.

 grouchoben wrote:
One termi is still a great shout - the question is do we still need two?

I'm inclined to say no.

Depends on whether +1 str power swords are the new standard, and whether there is a clarification on 1+ armour save characteristics for SS terminators. If either of those are official then multiple terminators are good to go.

Insularum wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
One termi is still a great shout - the question is do we still need two?

I'm inclined to say no.

Depends on whether +1 str power swords are the new standard, and whether there is a clarification on 1+ armour save characteristics for SS terminators. If either of those are official then multiple terminators are good to go.

That would be exceptionally stupid. It instantly invalidates both the Maul and the Axe as options.

Which means its going to happen.

Yeah, not being able to fall back and shoot is another one for the FAQ, If they take that ability away than vanguard is gonna drop.

It will be interesting to see how they handle the fact that each model is supposed t add a special rule of sorts.

I hope we get the chaplain on bike, I think that movement will open up options for getting litinies up the field.

Sterling191 wrote:

Insularum wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
One termi is still a great shout - the question is do we still need two?

I'm inclined to say no.

Depends on whether +1 str power swords are the new standard, and whether there is a clarification on 1+ armour save characteristics for SS terminators. If either of those are official then multiple terminators are good to go.

That would be exceptionally stupid. It instantly invalidates both the Maul and the Axe as options.

Which means its going to happen.

Kind of depends on how they go about it. Right now they are each 3 stat points distributed in various combination of Str/AP - swords are 0:3, axes are split 1:2, and mauls are 2:1. If swords jump to 1:3, which would be awesome, then it could mean a similar boost to all the other cheaper power weapons.

Or swords end up costing more?

Either way, I would welcome power swords being great.

I shouldnt be surprised, but the fact that our Faction Focus article touts the Blackstar as a means to get Intercessors around the table, while simultaneously quoting the rule that excludes Primaris from riding in it, both irks and amuses me.

That passage only talks about "Squads" - no reference to Intercessors/Primaris.

Pyrosphere wrote:
That passage only talks about "Squads" - no reference to Intercessors/Primaris.

It's literally the next paragraph after they extoll the virtues of Fortis Kill Teams. The implication, and idiocy, is on full display. Just like the subsequent statement about Watch Masters rerolling everything, followed by the rule where they explicitly dont.

Sterling191 wrote:

Insularum wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
One termi is still a great shout - the question is do we still need two?

I'm inclined to say no.

Depends on whether +1 str power swords are the new standard, and whether there is a clarification on 1+ armour save characteristics for SS terminators. If either of those are official then multiple terminators are good to go.

That would be exceptionally stupid. It instantly invalidates both the Maul and the Axe as options.

Which means its going to happen.

Honestly, trying to keep the different melee weapons valid has always been a mess. The game just needs "power weapons" and "heavy power weapons" and call it good. Let people put what they think looks cool on their toys.

AP was always a balance measure as well. This weapon has a higher bonus to strength, but this weapon as a greater AP, where are this weapon does x weirdness (Crozier).

Doesn't matter anyway I sneer at your Space Marine Variety. Just play Custodes, you can only use 1 of three options!

So DW will get access to all Indomitus units on release. That's quite big news, especially for the bikes and eradicators. 3x3 eradicators for 360pts looks like a great pick for DW...

God. I don't know if I could bring myself to. Especially if we can bury them in with Intercessors.

Well, that's 20pts per melta shot on a chunky frame that can take WM bubbles, missions and doctrines, making it one of the better places for an eradicator, in a faction that desperately needs AT. I think they're criminally undercosted personally, so I may have to go hunting for a few more models...

They are one of the most egregious examples of the Marine imbalance I've been hating on for a year now so I don't think I can get on board.

I'm honestly considering just selling my DW off if we're heading down the same path while the rest of the game remains stunted.

 Eldarain wrote:
They are one of the most egregious examples of the Marine imbalance I've been hating on for a year now so I don't think I can get on board.

I'm honestly considering just selling my DW off if we're heading down the same path while the rest of the game remains stunted.

That's unfortunate, but I totally understand. If you do decide to sell, which I admit is a tough decision, I hope you think about the folks here first and give us a shot at giving you a good deal, fellow watch master.

As far as Eradicators go, I think they're definitely going to be cheap...but I still need to play a game on a proper 9th edition board before I can for certain say they will be powerful. They feel a bit short range for what they bring to me.

I think our reserve abilities and mobility options (Angelis, homers) and the possibility of them being options for our mixed squads will make them particularly effective for us.

Absolutely will post here first in that event.

Hey Lemondish, I've played three games of 9th now, and the board change is huge, as is the change in focus onto objectives. 29" threat range isn't ideal, but it's workable, especially with deployment shenanigans. Since they're such low power level, reserving them is a strong option. Your opponent cannot stay 29" away from every board edge, they're gonna get the shot they want. On the other hand, they'll do great work as anti-elite in a pinch due to their relatively RoF, so starting them behind ruins is a strong option too: With a watchmaster they're gonna kill 4.4 intercessors per 120pt squad.

 grouchoben wrote:
Hey Lemondish, I've played three games of 9th now, and the board change is huge, as is the change in focus onto objectives. 29" threat range isn't ideal, but it's workable, especially with deployment shenanigans. Since they're such low power level, reserving them is a strong option. Your opponent cannot stay 29" away from every board edge, they're gonna get the shot they want. On the other hand, they'll do great work as anti-elite in a pinch due to their relatively RoF, so starting them behind ruins is a strong option too: With a watchmaster they're gonna kill 4.4 intercessors per 120pt squad.

Thanks for the insight! Exalted!

Super excited to get some games in, but there's no chance at that for me anytime soon.

It is certainly really nice to hear that a unit like this can sit out for a turn and still make a major splash in the match. I always felt as if my elite armies like Deathwatch needed every unit to contribute right from the very beginning, but that may be kind of a feeling rather than reality.

Now that we have the info for these units already, are you planning on proxying any in?

Yeah my next game will be DW! Tried out GSC yesterday, i do love the liberty of TTS for experimenting! Def. Gonna try out outriders and eradicators then, in a zero-vehicle list. Plasceptors are gonna be hot as hell too, they got such a point drop!

Going to be honest, if im hoping for anything out of Indomitus to make it into the Fortis team, its the Outrider. One of my very favorite configurations for Vets is the 3x Bike, 2x VanVet combat squad and even the possibility of doing that with 3x Outriders and 2x Inceptors makes me cackle.

Probably not the most competitive thing, but zooming up the board with a dozen bolt rifle SIA plus a dozen heavy bolter shots, plus the ludicrous number of attacks the squad can put out, while still being Infantry makes me smile just thinking about it.

So much for Veteran based armies.

Sterling191 wrote:
So much for Veteran based armies.

What's the big hit?

 LunarSol wrote:

What's the big hit?

Stormshields are 4pts
Stormbolters are 3
Basic veterans are 17

Whereas an ABR Intercessor is now 20

Oh and all kill teams lost fallback and shoot.

Edit: misread on my part, looks like they only tweaked the beginning of Vanguard/Inceptor strike not the whole ability.

Sterling191 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

What's the big hit?

Stormshields are 4pts
Stormbolters are 3
Basic veterans are 17

Whereas an ABR Intercessor is now 20

Oh and all kill teams lost fallback and shoot.

So Vanguards and Inceptors add nothing now? Neat...

Nevermind, figured out the confusion. Odd they changed so much and still referenced the Fly rule even though the Fly rule doesn't let you fall back and shoot anymore.

So it’s 24 points versus 20? Seems perfectly in line with the points increases you see normally.

Glad I mixed SS/SB and SB/CS on my Vets. Another step towards Primaris or GTFO though. Will wait to see how we fare in the Uber Marine book before I make a call I guess.

I personally see less value in the Intercessors as they can no longer claim objectives while also shooting.

With the action economy for winning missions, as well as being scored at the top of the turn I believe that durability is going to be king, and out veterans squads bring that to the table in spades.

Sad to see vanguard are wasted now, no point in having them in any kill teams anymore, same with inceptors.

 Leth wrote:
So it’s 24 points versus 20? Seems perfectly in line with the points increases you see normally.

In line, perhaps, but on a unit that desperately needed anything other than the status quo. Target allocation changes hurt badly, and with an ABR intercessor (with that ever tempting Eradicator build waiting in the wings) doing nearly as well in shooting and better in melee, there's not a compelling reason to take the Veteran anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
I personally see less value in the Intercessors as they can no longer claim objectives while also shooting.

Incorrect. Actions are not the only way you keep objectives.

 Leth wrote:
With the action economy for winning missions, as well as being scored at the top of the turn I believe that durability is going to be king, and out veterans squads bring that to the table in spades.

No they dont. Any competent opponent with multiple forms of fire can bait out saves and subsequently dismantle Vet squads.

 Leth wrote:
Sad to see vanguard are wasted now, no point in having them in any kill teams anymore, same with inceptors.

This was an initial misreading on my part. Vanguard/Inceptor Strike does still permit falling back and shooting. Its one of the few saving graces we got.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Leth wrote:
So it’s 24 points versus 20? Seems perfectly in line with the points increases you see normally.

In line, perhaps, but on a unit that desperately needed anything other than the status quo. Target allocation changes hurt badly, and with an ABR intercessor (with that ever tempting Eradicator build waiting in the wings) doing nearly as well in shooting and better in melee, there's not a compelling reason to take the Veteran anymore.
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
I personally see less value in the Intercessors as they can no longer claim objectives while also shooting.

Incorrect. Actions are not the only way you keep objectives.

 Leth wrote:
With the action economy for winning missions, as well as being scored at the top of the turn I believe that durability is going to be king, and out veterans squads bring that to the table in spades.

No they dont. Any competent opponent with multiple forms of fire can bait out saves and subsequently dismantle Vet squads.

We will have to see but my initial impreession is that we came out pretty well. They can really dismantle a squad because one model has to carry over? It’s easier than before true, but not to the point where I would worry to much, if they are putting that much fire power from multiple units into one squad based on the last save? More power to them, my other squads will sit with popcorn. Definitely see more terminators with stormshields and storm bolters for 30 points being solid.

Never said they were the only way. Sorry I didn’t spell out everything, the lack of invul saves makes me less likely to trust intercessors with babysitting objectives. Durability will be king when it comes to scoring points. An invul save provides a guarantee than your opponent can’t overcome, It introduces uncertainty into their battle plans beyond just overwhelming firepower.

Need to adjust the mentality towards top of turn scoring, veterans versatility in unit composition As well as the ability to do everything at once is going to be huge in that regards. Might take awhile before we figure it out however

Teleport homers being 5 points was cute though


I see drop pods being HUGE since you can set them up on your first turn. With objectives being closer to the center of the table, being able to box them out by going first is pretty significant. Add on that we don’t really have a super doctrine that matters we can bring in allies relatively easily.