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Sterling191 wrote:

Spear of the First Vigil is...okay? Gives the WM back SIA and a better melee profile. Likely not worth the slot for Matched Play, but a solid pick for a Crusade game where everything can be toting WLTs and Relics.

WM never lost SIA. He's got it in the Index. It bumps it from RF1 > 2 and in melee gives you +1 STR and a flat 3 instead of D3 damage.

Pretty decent, but there seem to be quite a few great Relics to choose from.

 LunarSol wrote:

WM never lost SIA. He's got it in the Index. It bumps it from RF1 > 2 and in melee gives you +1 STR and a flat 3 instead of D3 damage.

Pretty decent, but there seem to be quite a few great Relics to choose from.

Yeah I was stupid and looked at the melee profile for the abilities. The RF2 is decent, and flat 3 on the melee is nice, but only S6 hurts. They really want us to take a WM, but he's just so mediocre outside of his force multiplier abilities.

Sterling191 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

WM never lost SIA. He's got it in the Index. It bumps it from RF1 > 2 and in melee gives you +1 STR and a flat 3 instead of D3 damage.

Pretty decent, but there seem to be quite a few great Relics to choose from.

Yeah I was stupid and looked at the melee profile for the abilities. The RF2 is decent, and flat 3 on the melee is nice, but only S6 hurts. They really want us to take a WM, but he's just so mediocre outside of his force multiplier abilities.

But what is the alternative to a wm?

A phobos captain has some plays, especially as setting him up doesn't count as reinforcements so he can teleport a squad to him turn 1 I believe. But he's then likely to get heavily targeted and I dunno if it's worth losing a watch master for.

Especially when hq slots are limited, as we are gonna want a librarian and maybe a chaplain too.

Niiru wrote:

But what is the alternative to a wm?

There isn't one, which is the problem. Because we can't upgrade a Captain to a WM, we cant make use of any of the other Captain datasheets and create a specialized leader for the army like effectively every other Marine faction can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something else of note for folks looking at Crusade, PL values are fething weird. KT Cassius at 3? 5 DW vets at 9? The Blackstar at 15?

Add it to the FAQ list.

Sterling191 wrote:

Niiru wrote:

But what is the alternative to a wm?

There isn't one, which is the problem. Because we can't upgrade a Captain to a WM, we cant make use of any of the other Captain datasheets and create a specialized leader for the army like effectively every other Marine faction can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something else of note for folks looking at Crusade, PL values are fething weird. KT Cassius at 3? 5 DW vets at 9? The Blackstar at 15?

Add it to the FAQ list.

Is blackstar at 15 high or low? And Vets and 9? Not sure if you're saying those are too high or too low. A lot of unitts in the game with customisable loadouts have janky power levels (see harlequin troupes).

Cassius is clearly meant to be 13, that's a pretty obvious typo I would say.

Niiru wrote:

Is blackstar at 15 high or low? And Vets and 9? Not sure if you're saying those are too high or too low. A lot of unitts in the game with customisable loadouts have janky power levels (see harlequin troupes).

Cassius is clearly meant to be 13, that's a pretty obvious typo I would say.

The Blackstar maxes out at 200 points. That's 10PL. Yet apparently it's 50% more expensive if you're playing Crusade? Likewise the Vet squad is now equal in cost to a Terminator squad in that system. On the same token, two of the three Kill Teams are stupidly overcosted (Proteus is actually fine and representative of the models it contains, the Spectrus and Indomitor are easily carrying a 25-40% cost premium).

Deathwatch have been historically fethed in PL games, and this sadly doesnt buck the trend.

Sterling191 wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Is blackstar at 15 high or low? And Vets and 9? Not sure if you're saying those are too high or too low. A lot of unitts in the game with customisable loadouts have janky power levels (see harlequin troupes).

Cassius is clearly meant to be 13, that's a pretty obvious typo I would say.

The Blackstar maxes out at 200 points. That's 10PL. Yet apparently it's 50% more expensive if you're playing Crusade? Likewise the Vet squad is now equal in cost to a Terminator squad in that system. On the same token, two of the three Kill Teams are stupidly overcosted (Proteus is actually fine and representative of the models it contains, the Spectrus and Indomitor are easily carrying a 25-40% cost premium).

Deathwatch have been historically fethed in PL games, and this sadly doesnt buck the trend.

My playgroup crusade converts everything to points anyway, I don't think I've ever used power level in a game in my entire life haha. So I find it interesting, in a "well, if that's what people wanna play like" kind of way.

yeah, not seeing a relic in here I'm going to be giving up the +1A within 6" aura relic for.

I bring that with my jump pack chaplain with the +2" charge prayer and it is pretty solid I'd say.

In terms of what my warlord trait is gonna be, I'm considering doing the 'exemplar of the chapter' to get the Imperial Fists' Ignore Ap-1 Aura. Just make my SS-totin' ranged vet squads that little bit more obnoxious.

It’s really tough because I want a watch master, want my bike chaplain, so it’s really tough competition for the last slot since 2cp for another detachment is not in the cards.

Feel like a jump captain with dominus aegis is gonna be the play. Getting that 5+ aura is enough to save a few points elsewhere

So is everyone ready to be playing the FotM army? Gird yourselves, friends, for salt and plenty of new watchmasters! DW are going to be a realy competitive faction now, for good and for ill...

 grouchoben wrote:
So is everyone ready to be playing the FotM army? Gird yourselves, friends, for salt and plenty of new watchmasters! DW are going to be a realy competitive faction now, for good and for ill...

Im really not too worried. New blood is important for a faction's long term survival. Sallies and Scars are still gonna be terrifying, while the banana boys got a serious buff out of the FW index. I'm still trying to parse the Wolves book, but it looks like they got a solid upgrade as well (probably not as significant as the lads on the Long Watch, but the starting points were pretty significantly different). We also havent quite seen the impact of the prime codex adjustment for Dark Angels, which is one I fully expect to see in high level play.

Speaking of moving to the new edition, is it time to retire this thread and start up a new one with the arrival of the updates?

Sterling191 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
So is everyone ready to be playing the FotM army? Gird yourselves, friends, for salt and plenty of new watchmasters! DW are going to be a realy competitive faction now, for good and for ill...

Im really not too worried. New blood is important for a faction's long term survival. Sallies and Scars are still gonna be terrifying, while the banana boys got a serious buff out of the FW index. I'm still trying to parse the Wolves book, but it looks like they got a solid upgrade as well (probably not as significant as the lads on the Long Watch, but the starting points were pretty significantly different). We also havent quite seen the impact of the prime codex adjustment for Dark Angels, which is one I fully expect to see in high level play.

Speaking of moving to the new edition, is it time to retire this thread and start up a new one with the arrival of the updates?

I mean we are now not in 8th at all, and nothing in this thread is valid anymore really. It's probably worth it. Do you want to do the honours?

Chuck the link in here if you do, as I usually only look at my 'subscribed threads' list for updates haha

Done and done. New thread can be found here.

Mods, I guess we can send this thread to the farm upstate with all the previous editions.