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With the arrival of the new Deathwatch Supplement in a week, and the arrival of all the pertinent rules thanks to the magic of the internet and previews, it's time to officially step into the new edition with a brand new thread to discuss it all. As a Supplement book we get full access (with minor caveats) to everything in the Codex: Space Marines book. You may wish to refer to this thread for general questions involving the army as a whole, while this thread will primarily be focused on the Deathwatch specifically.

Let's get down to business. Dont be shy, we've got a lot to analyze, evaluate and understand. The new edition is a significant change both in playstyle as well as rules.

Spoiler:
8th edition thread can be found here for reference and posterity.
   
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UK

9th Supplement Leaks

Figured for the sake of reference, I'd chuck this here too.

So, I know we got our book released today, but there wasn't anything new in there I don't think other than relics (which have been mentioned in the other thread).

However, there was also the IA release today. Anything in there of interest to us?

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I'm still digging into the new FW Index, so no comprehensive look from me just yet. A few items of note so far:

The Mortis/CMortis dreads appear to have been folded into the "Relic Contemptor" datasheet, which pushes them to BS/WS 3, nixes their FNP and imparts a 1CP per model cost to take them. I think they're largely out of the picture.

Likewise the Leviathan dropping to T7 with a 5++ makes it significantly less viable (though it was largely pointed out of consideration already). Theyre all just fundamentally outclassed by the Redemptor now in my opinion.

Tempests and Rapiers maaaaay have some legs. Ditto for the Termite, but I think that's because of a typo. Non-Astraeus superheavies appear to have finally gotten some reasonable points costs, so they may actually be worth considering for Onslaught level games.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/01 02:28:08


 
   
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So we suddenly seem to have a ton of HQ options. What's jumping out at people?

A librarian of some sort seems like a first pick at this point. I'd lean towards either the Phobos option or the OldMarine version to save points between the 3. I have a soft spot for Natorian, but.... relics....

Initially my other go-to pick was the Watch Master, but I'm less certain now. I probably want him as my third pick, but.... I'm not sure I want 3 when there's so many things I could spend the points on. Again.... relics.....

The model who kind of stands out as making the most of those aforementioned relics really seems to be the Phobos captain. I kind of hate the sculpt but he's really interesting and seems like a steal for his cost.

That leaves a shield Captain as the other strong contender for the Aegis. Probably my first pick if I'm not taking a Phobos captain.

Probably some other solid choices I'm missing like Chaplains of all varieties, particularly one with a Jump Pack or Bike to get up the field. Other thoughts?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sterling191 wrote:

Likewise the Leviathan dropping to T7 with a 5++ makes it significantly less viable (though it was largely pointed out of consideration already). Theyre all just fundamentally outclassed by the Redemptor now in my opinion.


I need to sit down and really compare the two, but its worth noting the Leviathan got a HUGE price drop along with all the other nerfs. I think you're probably right still between the Command Point and lack of CORE, but I'm still rather curious to compare. I think the Venerables are probably the all around best option regardless.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/01 03:15:40


 
   
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Thank you Sterling191 for opening the new 9th thread!

Alright, exciting times for DW players.

Re: HQ.

I think that a librarian and a captain with the dominus aegis are my top picks.

As already noted, this makes the WM kind of redundant. If fielding outriders, for instance, a bike chaplain could be a better choice.

However, the WM with the tome and his aura can transform any units in an absolute blender rerolling to hit and to wound vs another unit. That is brutal.

Another issue, just to be sure: what do you think about eliminators with las fusils? They might do some works vs. elites and fast attacks/transport

Are they still subpar?

Finally, we need CPs. And we don't have anymore as far as I have seen ways of getting them back like our old wt.

Could it be worth to take an additional WTs to give to someone the UM WT "adept of the codex"?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/11/01 08:06:48


 
   
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I think reports of the Leviathan's demise might be a bit premature! It'll need support, and these days that means a techmarine. Here's my take on what was (and still is imo) a key unit for the Watch...

Firstly, while it's been nerfed a pip of T and invuln, it still has w14 2+/5++, and its gun gained 12" range, which used to hold the unit back pretty significantly, forcing it to move and suffer a malus in 8e.

It comes in at 240pts with storm cannons now which are a solid pick (2x Heavy 8 S7 -1 D2) but grav has changed significantly too (heavy 2d3 S8 -3 2D/3D). Let's say you stick with Storm cannons for the moment, and equip the Lev fully...

You have 16 S7 -1 D2 shots baseline. Nice. Add on the new twin vulkite option for long range support instead of the previously under-utilised heavy flamers: another 8 S5 0ap 2D shots. Now add the unique option of 3 HK missiles, which have been buffed up to S10.

All in we're talking 255pts for what is still the tankiest dread in the dex, putting out 24 D2 shots (in a marine meta) and 3 one-off S10 missiles. If you want it shooting at BS2 add in a techmarine, bringing the total cost up to 325pt. This is almost identical to the unit's cost at the end of 8e, and comes with a free techmarine!

Finally, gun-lev may now be secondfiddle to melee-lev. The unit now has base 4, +2 for twin claws, +1 base, for 7 melee attacks before any other considerations, all for 220pts. That's cheap enough to consider running one as a serious distraction blender. Important to note that this lev retains some firepower, benefitting from the new melta rules, and 8 S5 0ap D2 Volkite shots. It looks suspiciously like a bargain to me.

To summarise: the unit has changed dramatically, and lost a pip of T and invuln, whilst upping both its rate and range of fire at the cost of AP, something that can be partially offset by dev doctrine. Storm Cannons can no longer be up-gunned by DW strats to function well as AT, but lean into anti-marine tech and is much cheaper. Melee-lev may now be a serious contender.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/11/01 08:34:23


 
   
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Indiana

My current 3 go tos are Watch master 2x warlord trait, chaplain on bike master and. Warlord trait and relic and jump captaiin with shield relic. If shield doesn’t replace stormshield then I will pop him out for a Phobos captain.

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 grouchoben wrote:
I think reports of the Leviathan's demise might be a bit premature! It'll need support, and these days that means a techmarine. Here's my take on what was (and still is imo) a key unit for the Watch...

Firstly, while it's been nerfed a pip of T and invuln, it still has w14 2+/5++, and its gun gained 12" range, which used to hold the unit back pretty significantly, forcing it to move and suffer a malus in 8e.

It comes in at 240pts with storm cannons now which are a solid pick (2x Heavy 8 S7 -1 D2) but grav has changed significantly too (heavy 2d3 S8 -3 2D/3D). Let's say you stick with Storm cannons for the moment, and equip the Lev fully...

You have 16 S7 -1 D2 shots baseline. Nice. Add on the new twin vulkite option for long range support instead of the previously under-utilised heavy flamers: another 8 S5 0ap 2D shots. Now add the unique option of 3 HK missiles, which have been buffed up to S10.

All in we're talking 255pts for what is still the tankiest dread in the dex, putting out 24 D2 shots (in a marine meta) and 3 one-off S10 missiles. If you want it shooting at BS2 add in a techmarine, bringing the total cost up to 325pt. This is almost identical to the unit's cost at the end of 8e, and comes with a free techmarine!

Finally, gun-lev may now be secondfiddle to melee-lev. The unit now has base 4, +2 for twin claws, +1 base, for 7 melee attacks before any other considerations, all for 220pts. That's cheap enough to consider running one as a serious distraction blender. Important to note that this lev retains some firepower, benefitting from the new melta rules, and 8 S5 0ap D2 Volkite shots. It looks suspiciously like a bargain to me.

To summarise: the unit has changed dramatically, and lost a pip of T and invuln, whilst upping both its rate and range of fire at the cost of AP, something that can be partially offset by dev doctrine. Storm Cannons can no longer be up-gunned by DW strats to function well as AT, but lean into anti-marine tech and is much cheaper. Melee-lev may now be a serious contender.


I agree that the Levi is still alive and kicking, albeit in a new way. I am less convinced that it is still "key" given the significant upgrade to the Redemptor. Being "core" or not is very significant, and now one can easily give to a DW unit 5++ and/or 5+++, bumping the Redemptor survivability by quite a bit. (Not to mention the cost in real money, but that is a separate issue, of course ).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/11/01 11:39:27


 
   
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Okay let's put them head to head, with the Lev rocking a loadout closes to a redemptor:

Storm cannon
Twin Volkites
Claw
3 HK missiles
= 245pts

It's 60pts more expensive and loses core, both serious problems.

It gains a wound and a 2+/5+++ save and an extra cc attack. Its guns are:
8 S7 -1 D2
8 S5 0 D2 (6s cause mortal wounds)
3 S10 -2 1d6D
1 S8 -4 1d6D
So when it fires it can expect to kill just over 3 marines, plus its antitank, and when it fights it can expect to kill just over 3 marines.
Overall I'd say it's better at killing marines, much tougher in CC and so suitable for going up against specialists, but is held back by lack of core.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/01 12:21:11


 
   
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I perfectly agree. I have to say that both choices are, in my opinion, viable. If you go down the "core" buffing route and you are constrained by points (or money), the Redemptor is likely a better choice.

But if you have a techmarine, have the points, or you simply already own (or want) the levi, then this also is a playable choice.

There is a third point of difference, however: fielding a levi now costs 1 CP. Not much, and again, it is a potent unit that can be worth such a minor investement, but it is another thing to consider

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/01 13:48:54


 
   
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 grouchoben wrote:

Overall I'd say it's better at killing marines, much tougher in CC and so suitable for going up against specialists, but is held back by lack of core.


Reasonable conclusions, and I completely misread the points costs last night so appreciate the breakdown. I'll disagree a bit about the CC. The upgrade to the Redemptor fist makes it terrifying to nearly any target profile, and with the changes to hammers and fists I think Duty Eternal closes the gap between the 2+ and the 3+ base armor saves considerably. Especially if you can get an Aegis or Fortress support character to even out the 5++ equation (which you're very likely to be taking anyway).

 LunarSol wrote:
So we suddenly seem to have a ton of HQ options. What's jumping out at people?


A Jump or Bike character to tote the Beacon is a must-take as far as Im concerned. A significant weakness of old-school Kill Team style lists is their speed, and the Beacon is a major way to mitigate that. Likewise, as much as I dislike them, a WM is also equally mandatory for those leaning hard into Specialisms.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/01 14:14:41


 
   
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Indiana

The Levi’s biggest loss is that it is not core, and thus can’t benefit from a lot of auras or abilities that would help it perform its role in either CC or ranged.

It’s not bad mind you, just has to be thought about differently. I would probably use a combination of melee and shooting since we want to advance up the board while also shooting with no loss of BS now.

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I'm trying to decide if taking the iron hands Adept of the Omnisiah on a master of the forge would let him restore 4 wounds a turn.
   
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Cryogenicman wrote:
I'm trying to decide if taking the iron hands Adept of the Omnisiah on a master of the forge would let him restore 4 wounds a turn.


RAW it wont. Your possible outcomes with the combination are D3+1 or 3. It likely will need an FAQ.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/01 16:57:25


 
   
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Sterling191 wrote:

A Jump or Bike character to tote the Beacon is a must-take as far as Im concerned. A significant weakness of old-school Kill Team style lists is their speed, and the Beacon is a major way to mitigate that. Likewise, as much as I dislike them, a WM is also equally mandatory for those leaning hard into Specialisms.


Yeah, at the moment, the big challenge is the 1 captain limit. I'm thinking the Indomitus Captain is a pretty solid choice to hang back and buff to-hit and Aegis, particularly as I realize there's no longer SIA on my Vets I've used for the role in the past. I suppose a Company Champion might do the job on a budget though. The Lt is an option as well, but I don't love Lts in DW as it kinda does what we do.

Without the ability to then put the Beacon on a Jump Pack captain, it comes down Librarians and Chaplains. At the moment I'm leaning on the new Bike Chaplain. He's very similar in cost to the Jump Pack versions and gets a couple great guns. The Phobos Librarian is probably next up. Not nearly as flexible, but still does the job of getting up the table. Realistically the Jump Pack Librarian is probably a better fit for the job, but there's no real model for it which makes it seem like a questionable investment these days.
   
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Company Champion is an interesting model for the Aegis, but I'm not sure how much he brings to the table for deathwatch. Would have been nice if the judiciar carried a shield.

Phobos captain or librarian being able to Beacon a unit on turn 1 seems viable, surely?

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Indiana

Strategism post I am working on, would happily accept any feedback yall might have. Sorry Dakka wont let me visually format it like I want to.


So lets start with the raw math.

___________Default Reroll 1 %up Reroll all %up
Wound on 2s 83.3% 97.2% 16.7% 97.2% 0.0%
Wound on 3s 66.7% 77.8% 16.7% 88.9% 14.3%
Wound on 4s 50.0% 58.3% 16.7% 75.0% 28.6%
Wound on 5s 33.3% 38.9% 16.7% 55.6% 42.9%
Wound on 6s 16.7% 19.4% 16.7% 30.6% 57.1%

Next lets look at the minimum points cost of the unit for the increase in efficiency to break even against a particular target.

______________Reroll 1s
___________25pts 35pts
Wound on 2s 150 210
Wound on 3s 150 210
Wound on 4s 150 210
Wound on 5s 150 210
Wound on 6s 150 210

_____________ Reroll All
_____________25pts 35pts
Wound on 2s N/A N/A
Wound on 3s 175 245
Wound on 4s 88 123
Wound on 5s 58 82
Wound on 6s 44 61

*When wounding on 2s it is obviously a waste of points since to get re-roll all we would already be required to be in the chapter tactic re-roll 1s. That is factored into the numbers

With this math we have a general idea of when and where we should apply a strategism for a unit that performs a dedicated role in your army. In general we can confirm that it is a waste of points to put them on anything but a full 10 man kill team.

"If you dont encounter an efficient target you are wasting a lot of points".

This is going to be the case with any army you make. If you are firing your heavy weapons at gaunts, because you have no other targets, you are doing the exact same thing. If you are paying for 2 wounds against an army with a lot of damage 2 weapons? You are doing the same thing. If you are paying for an invul save against a target where all the weapons dont break your armor? You are doing the same thing.

In any game points will be wasted or inefficient, partially because your opponent will be attempting to be as efficient as possible themselves. As with everything in army construction it is a cost benefits analysis. Across an entire event, will you encounter enough units that occupy those force org slots to justify the points?

Which is where the Meta comes in and this is another case of the deathwatch being deathwatch in that we have an ability to adjust to the meta without needing a new supplement. Right now marines, harlequins, and deathguard are very powerful, armies that are centered around their HQs/elites/characters as well as troops. So investing in improved efficiency against troops and HQs would be a solid investment over the course of many games. If knights become meta? A malleus squad will pay for itself across many games. Its no different than any other upgrade that you invest in for your army other than the fact that it is very much an all or nothing choice(which I understand many people are hesitent about).

Strategisms apply even if you drop your mission tactics

You get these benefits regardless of the mission tactics you are occupying INCLUDING if you swap out your mission tactics via the brotherhood strategem, Now this is where things get spicy.

Imagine you swap to space wolves giving you +1 to hit, your tactics are against that target, you are now +1 hit re-roll all wounds. If you want to blender a unit this is going to be hugely significant. Lets look at a unit of outriders against intecessors as an example.

5x6 for 30 attacks. hitting on 2s so 25 hits. approximately 19 wounds for 10ish wounds(without assault doctrine) this is on average wiping out a 5 man squad. Thats not even factoring all your shooting that would still get re-roll to wound.

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2020/11/01 20:51:56


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Not really played in a while, but keep dipping in now and again to see what new changes bring in.

Just wondering what the craic is in regards to "legends" models? are they for casual games only?

Just wondering as a Chief Apocathary on a bike supporting an aegis captain on a bike with some obsec outriders seems a fairly resilient and mobile unit to bully enemy troops and seize objectives.
   
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Niiru wrote:
Company Champion is an interesting model for the Aegis, but I'm not sure how much he brings to the table for deathwatch. Would have been nice if the judiciar carried a shield.

Phobos captain or librarian being able to Beacon a unit on turn 1 seems viable, surely?


I really like the Phobos captain in general, but non-Captain Aegis models are really hard to come by.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ragnorack1 wrote:
Not really played in a while, but keep dipping in now and again to see what new changes bring in.

Just wondering what the craic is in regards to "legends" models? are they for casual games only?

Just wondering as a Chief Apocathary on a bike supporting an aegis captain on a bike with some obsec outriders seems a fairly resilient and mobile unit to bully enemy troops and seize objectives.


Basically yes. Legends models are no longer supported and have rules that mostly exist for casual play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/01 21:40:14


 
   
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 Leth wrote:
In general we can confirm that it is a waste of points to put them on anything but a full 10 man kill team.



First off, I snipped all the great content cos it would have choked up the thread, but this is -great work- (assuming it's accurate, which I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt on lol).

However, on a lot of those "full rerolls" units, it seems that you only need 100 points in a unit (or less) if your common targets for that unit are tough enough for you to only be wounding on 4s/5s/etc. I wonder how common this is, as these units would seem to be the ones that get the most benefit for their cost. Things like heavy intercessor bolters perhaps, with lower strengths.

Though tbh I don't think there's ever a reason not to take a full unit of 10 if you plan to put a specialisation on it. Even if you only want 5x of something to have a buff vs heavy support (for example), you might as well give it to the other half of the unit for free as well, even if you plan to combat squad and you end up with a squad of... bolters with a buff vs heavy support (not their ideal target, but it's basically a free buff). If that makes sense.




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 LunarSol wrote:

I really like the Phobos captain in general, but non-Captain Aegis models are really hard to come by.


Part of why I'm eyeing up the Champion. Super-cheap beatstick model that can carry the Aegis, and as an anchor for a fire base provides some reasonably beefy countercharge ability.

 LunarSol wrote:

ragnorack1 wrote:

Just wondering what the craic is in regards to "legends" models? are they for casual games only?


Basically yes. Legends models are no longer supported and have rules that mostly exist for casual play.


Quick clarification here, Legends models are fully legal for play in Open, Crusade or Matched Play games, but are not recommended for organized events.
   
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UK

So I'm trying to make two things useful (or at least as small a handicap as possibl).

Shotgun squad (or shotguns in a squad) being one thing. One advantage they have, is that they are the cheapest loadout for veterans. The guns aren't even that bad either. Not sure how to leverage it though.

Another thing is SIA, but the strat is pretty much useless expect for heavy intercessors. However one possible thing is the Bolt Cache relic. It's a small buff for most sergeants, probably not worth it...
But a Centurian Dev with a hurricane bolter and 2x heavy bolters getting it.... could this be worthwhile?

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Niiru wrote:

But a Centurian Dev with a hurricane bolter and 2x heavy bolters getting it.... could this be worthwhile?


It's 300 points to do that. That's an entire Kill Team to give a single model SIA. I understand the draw...it's just a *lot* of points on a unit that doesnt have innate obsec, isnt core, and is slow as molasses.

I'm personally looking at giving the Cache to a Biker Sergeant in an MSU + MM Attack Bike team. Give the Sarge a Storm Bolter and shield (yes, you can do that), and for 155 points you've got a roving gunship team that can skirmish well above their weight, but isnt such a massive investment that when they inevitable die it's a significant loss for the army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/02 00:49:07


 
   
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Denison, Iowa

Sorry if I missed it, but is there a definitive list of what weapons can use Special Issue Ammunition? I have 20 guys with Storm Bolters that look useless now.
   
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 cuda1179 wrote:
Sorry if I missed it, but is there a definitive list of what weapons can use Special Issue Ammunition? I have 20 guys with Storm Bolters that look useless now.


For non KT: Cassius, Artemis or Natorian the list is:

Deathwatch Boltgun (including the bolter half of combi-weapons)
Stalker Pattern Boltgun
Watch Master Spear

That is it. Storm Bolters are no longer eligible for SIA.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/02 01:21:20


 
   
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Sterling191 wrote:
Niiru wrote:

But a Centurian Dev with a hurricane bolter and 2x heavy bolters getting it.... could this be worthwhile?


It's 300 points to do that. That's an entire Kill Team to give a single model SIA. I understand the draw...it's just a *lot* of points on a unit that doesnt have innate obsec, isnt core, and is slow as molasses.

I'm personally looking at giving the Cache to a Biker Sergeant in an MSU + MM Attack Bike team. Give the Sarge a Storm Bolter and shield (yes, you can do that), and for 155 points you've got a roving gunship team that can skirmish well above their weight, but isnt such a massive investment that when they inevitable die it's a significant loss for the army.



I'm not sold on bikes yet at all, never have been. Willing to be proven wrong of course, but they just seem... boring. Veteran bikers at least have some vague interest, the new outriders are ... just nothing. (They're probably great units on paper, this is very much a personal thing I'm sure). Spending a relic on giving SIA to two RF2 boltguns seems pretty lacklustre as well.

Cents had the vague benefit of giving SIA to a single model, that has about 3x the firepower of that biker sarge. No obsec sucks of course, but we have a lot of quality obsec, and being slow isn't so much of a handicap as we have at least one way to teleport them where we need them, should it be needed.

I don't think there'd be much point in taking a cent squad and a bunch of heavy-intercessors though, as their jobs overlap, and the heavy ints benefit from more buffs potentially. On the other hand, I kinda like the centurion models lol.

Wonder if assault cents have any use with the teleport ability.




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Niiru wrote:

Spending a relic on giving SIA to two RF2 boltguns seems pretty lacklustre as well.


Remember SIA bolters benefit from bolter discipline now. That sarge is pumping out 8 SIA shots at all times. The reason I'm eyeing that particular squad configuration is that it allows for more board control, but also threat saturation and disruption. It's not going to wipe a Knight or a swarm of 30 gaunts of the table by itself (though in the right doctrine it's gonna make a serious dent in that blob), but it's a unit that has to be dealt with otherwise it's going to throw serious wrenches into your plans. Remember that we get a fall back and shoot strat for bikes from the prime Marine Codex now.

It's an evolution of the 3x Bike, 2x VanVet combat squad I ran back in 8th, which always served me super well. Not because of what it could kill, but because it could be an absolutely hellacious nuisance.

Niiru wrote:

I'm not sold on bikes yet at all, never have been. Willing to be proven wrong of course, but they just seem... boring.


Their primary role isnt killing, which is why theyve been something of a niche play for most of 8th. They heavily lean into the objective driven nature of 9th.

Niiru wrote:

Cents had the vague benefit of giving SIA to a single model, that has about 3x the firepower of that biker sarge. No obsec sucks of course, but we have a lot of quality obsec, and being slow isn't so much of a handicap as we have at least one way to teleport them where we need them, should it be needed.

I don't think there'd be much point in taking a cent squad and a bunch of heavy-intercessors though, as their jobs overlap, and the heavy ints benefit from more buffs potentially. On the other hand, I kinda like the centurion models lol.


Cents also cost more than three times what a bike does. I hear you on the mobility shenanigans, but thats an opportunity cost that the bikers dont have to pay. If you're using Teleportarium or the Beacon to get that Sarge a firing lane, that's resources you cant use to help your Kill Teams.

Niiru wrote:

Wonder if assault cents have any use with the teleport ability.


They're technically legal targets of Teleportarium as they have the Infantry keyword. That may or may not get FAQed.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/11/02 01:33:33


 
   
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Goonhammer - Hammer of Math Deathwatch

https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-deathwatch-supplement/

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This is a good article and brings Vet bikers into a better light. However bearing in mind that we can turn on Assault Doc whenever we want are Power Swords the best option for them? I was leaning more towards Axes -4AP seems overkill in any situation with Inv saves vs the extra Str against Gravis and T5 termies.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/02 21:17:34


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 ChobitsCrazy wrote:

This is a good article and brings Vet bikers into a better light. However baring in mind that we can turn on Assault Doc whenever we want is Power Swords the best option for them? I was leaning more towards Axes -4AP seems overkill in any situation with Inv saves vs the extra Str against Gravis and T5 termies.


It's *highly* target profile dependent, and the math gets horrifically complex when you factor in specialisms and the +1A from chainswords. If it's a non-favored enemy, the Axes win out on everything that isnt a T4, 7, 8 or 9 target with a 3+ or better, while Chainswords win out against T3 5+ or worse and T7 4+ or worse. If it's a favored enemy, axes win out against T5, 6 and 10, while the chainsword is the go to for T3, 4 and 7 with a 4+ or worse. T8 and T9 4+ or worse is a wash, while the sword wins out on pretty much everything else.

All of the boils down to (and I want to caveat that this is a massive generalization) if you have a lot of T5/T6 the axe is the way to go, if you are seeing a lot of power armor or tanks the sword is a viable option. I personally do think the 5ppm cost on the power weapons on the bikes gives Chainswords a niche to fill (as you're likely not dropping a Specialism on a combat squadded bike team outside of Furor horde blending), as the strength of the Vet bike is the fact that it's crazy inexpensive for what it brings to the table.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/02 21:15:32


 
   
 
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