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 fr3ddy wrote:
Well, Space Mahreen codex is out, TL assault cannon is still OP, and Deathwatch are basically suped up Sphess Mahreen with cool gear.

Unless GW decide deathwatch should not have rhinos and razorback, then yeah....I mean, flamer razorback and las/plas razorback is not avail to dethwotch, but....i have not seen anyone take em ever.

if dethwotch can take some primaris, i would take the aggressor for flame spam for rear protection or that tank thing, which has more dakka than a land raider.

I might look into tarantula turrets for sheer shot output and obj sec. Its 45 points for a TL assault cannon turret, take 10 and you spew out 120 shots per turn along. And best part is these turrets are individual models after deployment. Par these turrets up with watch master for some hair pulling and eye ball gauging action from opponent watching his army blown up @ record speed.

Yeah, I don't think they'd make DW flat out unable to take them, but they could raise the AC or Razorback points cost or limit the number you can take some other way and I'd then be stuck with six transports with expensive Forgeworld guns. It'd be like being one of those guys with 6 Stormravens. Yeah, you can still use 3-4, but you're still stuck with two useless expensive models. If I stay at 2 or 3, it's not as big of a blow if a nerf comes. It's why I haven't gone nuts with Scions/Tauroxes/Conscripts/Basilisks/Manticores (not like I can find those last two for sale anywhere to ever worry about having too many)

Do they even make AC Tarantulas any more? I didn't see them last I was on the FW site.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Is anything Primaris worth taking in a Deathwatch army? I can maybe see a place for Helblasters or Aggressors but that is about it.

Not having access to Special Issue Ammo I don't feel there is anything worth it from Primaris at this time, no.

5x Hellblasters with basic kit run 165 whereas Scions will get you 2x 5 man squads w/ 2x Plasma Guns and a Plasma Pistol each plus a Tempestor granting both units re-roll's on 1's. With the added benefit that they will drop in where you want them within rapid fire range guaranteed. You get all that for 172. Plus, for what its worth, the non plasma Scions weapons are -2 save. You also get 11 bodies counted for objective control compared to 5, albeit obviously less survivable bodies. So both squads are shooting off the same amount of Str 8 plasma (HB's at -4 sv tho) but the Scions are going to get the effortless re-rolls. Plus the Scions are throwing an additional 8 shots with a still respectable -2 save.

There is also the possibility that, when looking at the three new Codex's, GW may be trying to validate still taking Troops choices, which the Scions are, by granting Objective Secured to them as long as they are a Scion only detachment. Which in my above example, that is a standalone Patrol Detachment already and would qualify.

All told, I'd much rather spend the extra 7 for all the utility and *possible* future proofing then picking up Hellblasters as an addition to a DW army.

As for Aggressors, their anti-infantry focus is pretty well covered by everything else Deathwatch without having to spend Terminator level costs per model for the same wounds but worse save. With the added benefit that Terminators get to be held in reserve. That lets you drop them where you need them and if you have a Teleport Homer, pull them out for any number of reasons that may pop up. Not to mention the added Deployment manipulation that comes with putting a unit in reserve and making your opponent have to potentially place another unit on the table that you can counter deploy to.

Since Deathwatch are Space Marines the real question is can we use the stratagems from the codex. We can use the psychic powers and the warlord traits are for any Adeptus Arbites unit. What do ya'll think? The 6 to wound roll with increases the ap of any gun by another -1 for a support like the Watch Master is perfect. Now if we can use the stratagems we'd be set.

We only get the psychic powers, the book limits everything else to chapters found within Codex Space Marines.

Well, I think I've found a marginal use for Hellblasters. Using them as the Heavy Support tax to unlock a Relic Leviathan. Though I think a rapier would also work for this and probably do it cheaper.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
We only get the psychic powers, the book limits everything else to chapters found within Codex Space Marines.

The book defines Space Marines as being the Codex compliant chapters I believe. Wouldn't DW be limited to using the Index still? I know Warhammer Community said you could use Codex datasheet for now, but I heard nothing on psychic powers.

So im thinking of dabbling into abt 500 points of deathwatch in my inquisition/guard army. What do yall think of these killteams

Killteam 1:
1x veteran with heavy bolter
4x veteran with stalker pattern boltgun
1x terminator with assault cannon+power fist (model restriction, id get a sword if i could)

Killteam 2:
1x veteran with TH+plasma pistol+combat shield (sarge)
1x veteran with power fist+bolt pistol
1x veteran with meltagun
2x veteran with boltgun
1x terminator with powerfist+storm bolter
1x biker with power axe

Im thinking I footslog the 2nd killteam forward along with my guard infantry and inquisitor, while kt 1 hides in ruins near an objective laying down dakka

Yeah, I don't think they'd make DW flat out unable to take them, but they could raise the AC or Razorback points cost or limit the number you can take some other way and I'd then be stuck with six transports with expensive Forgeworld guns. It'd be like being one of those guys with 6 Stormravens. Yeah, you can still use 3-4, but you're still stuck with two useless expensive models. If I stay at 2 or 3, it's not as big of a blow if a nerf comes. It's why I haven't gone nuts with Scions/Tauroxes/Conscripts/Basilisks/Manticores (not like I can find those last two for sale anywhere to ever worry about having too many)

Do they even make AC Tarantulas any more? I didn't see them last I was on the FW site.

Its not likely GW gonna limit the numbers of razorback, I mean they are dedicated transport and in the core rule book it did state that a dedicated transport for each battlefield role. I mean even if they do for whatever reason, i will just use me corvus with TL AC to fly around.

Also AC tarantulas are not avail on FW, get it from kromlech their resin minis are good to go.

Also came here to report I tabled a harlequin player last night. He ran like...7 squads of clowns with fusion guns/harlequin's kiss/and some other weird stuff. Along with that psychic flyer and the transport thing. In addition like 2 shadow seer, farseer, and 2 other magick sphess elves character. Last but not least he also brought that yncarne god character. I have to say these pesky clowns are...extremely annoying, especially with power from death or soulburst, he kept using it to smite/charge/move closer to my line of AC razorback line. But thanks to watchmaster and re-rolls, I wiped him clean, his fatal mistake was trying charge yncarne into leviathan dread, 2d6 heavy flamer and 20 storm cannon arrary with re-rolls wrecked a squad of clowns and the god on overwatch.

the same list the harlequin player ran bested this year's adepticon 3rd place guy here many times. I think i was the first one to crush his harlequin army in our super competitive meta. Even the max khorne zerker list lost against his list.

For those of you going to NOVA, watch out for this guy and his harlequin, he have enough eldar trickery that will pop land raider turn 1.

 fr3ddy wrote:

Yeah, I don't think they'd make DW flat out unable to take them, but they could raise the AC or Razorback points cost or limit the number you can take some other way and I'd then be stuck with six transports with expensive Forgeworld guns. It'd be like being one of those guys with 6 Stormravens. Yeah, you can still use 3-4, but you're still stuck with two useless expensive models. If I stay at 2 or 3, it's not as big of a blow if a nerf comes. It's why I haven't gone nuts with Scions/Tauroxes/Conscripts/Basilisks/Manticores (not like I can find those last two for sale anywhere to ever worry about having too many)

Do they even make AC Tarantulas any more? I didn't see them last I was on the FW site.

Its not likely GW gonna limit the numbers of razorback, I mean they are dedicated transport and in the core rule book it did state that a dedicated transport for each battlefield role. I mean even if they do for whatever reason, i will just use me corvus with TL AC to fly around.

Also AC tarantulas are not avail on FW, get it from kromlech their resin minis are good to go.

Also came here to report I tabled a harlequin player last night. He ran like...7 squads of clowns with fusion guns/harlequin's kiss/and some other weird stuff. Along with that psychic flyer and the transport thing. In addition like 2 shadow seer, farseer, and 2 other magick sphess elves character. Last but not least he also brought that yncarne god character. I have to say these pesky clowns are...extremely annoying, especially with power from death or soulburst, he kept using it to smite/charge/move closer to my line of AC razorback line. But thanks to watchmaster and re-rolls, I wiped him clean, his fatal mistake was trying charge yncarne into leviathan dread, 2d6 heavy flamer and 20 storm cannon arrary with re-rolls wrecked a squad of clowns and the god on overwatch.

the same list the harlequin player ran bested this year's adepticon 3rd place guy here many times. I think i was the first one to crush his harlequin army in our super competitive meta. Even the max khorne zerker list lost against his list.

For those of you going to NOVA, watch out for this guy and his harlequin, he have enough eldar trickery that will pop land raider turn 1.

What list you running?

 fr3ddy wrote:

Yeah, I don't think they'd make DW flat out unable to take them, but they could raise the AC or Razorback points cost or limit the number you can take some other way and I'd then be stuck with six transports with expensive Forgeworld guns. It'd be like being one of those guys with 6 Stormravens. Yeah, you can still use 3-4, but you're still stuck with two useless expensive models. If I stay at 2 or 3, it's not as big of a blow if a nerf comes. It's why I haven't gone nuts with Scions/Tauroxes/Conscripts/Basilisks/Manticores (not like I can find those last two for sale anywhere to ever worry about having too many)

Do they even make AC Tarantulas any more? I didn't see them last I was on the FW site.

Its not likely GW gonna limit the numbers of razorback, I mean they are dedicated transport and in the core rule book it did state that a dedicated transport for each battlefield role. I mean even if they do for whatever reason, i will just use me corvus with TL AC to fly around.

Also AC tarantulas are not avail on FW, get it from kromlech their resin minis are good to go.

Also came here to report I tabled a harlequin player last night. He ran like...7 squads of clowns with fusion guns/harlequin's kiss/and some other weird stuff. Along with that psychic flyer and the transport thing. In addition like 2 shadow seer, farseer, and 2 other magick sphess elves character. Last but not least he also brought that yncarne god character. I have to say these pesky clowns are...extremely annoying, especially with power from death or soulburst, he kept using it to smite/charge/move closer to my line of AC razorback line. But thanks to watchmaster and re-rolls, I wiped him clean, his fatal mistake was trying charge yncarne into leviathan dread, 2d6 heavy flamer and 20 storm cannon arrary with re-rolls wrecked a squad of clowns and the god on overwatch.

the same list the harlequin player ran bested this year's adepticon 3rd place guy here many times. I think i was the first one to crush his harlequin army in our super competitive meta. Even the max khorne zerker list lost against his list.

For those of you going to NOVA, watch out for this guy and his harlequin, he have enough eldar trickery that will pop land raider turn 1.

How many Leviathans are you running? Is the grav bombard worth taking or are the storm cannons that much better? What heavy supports are you using to take the relic leviathan?

Finally, how does 3rd party like kromlech work at something like ITC events or NOVA?

How many Leviathans are you running? Is the grav bombard worth taking or are the storm cannons that much better? What heavy supports are you using to take the relic leviathan?

Finally, how does 3rd party like kromlech work at something like ITC events or NOVA?

I am running one Leviathan, do double storm cannons; it wrecks everything, like literally, pair with watch master for hate and discontent. I took a helios land raider with it (with watch master too for even more hate and discontent)
I used all kromlech assault cannon turrets, its all legal in ITC and NOVA, the model has to be at least 70% GW stuff, but in all reality, I have seen people who used the regiment soldiers model from anvil industry to proxy as scions @ ITC events.

What list you running?

Double watch master, Four 5 men kill team, 5 AC razorback, 1 land raider helios, and 1 leviathan.

for the local NOVA practice, round 1 I tabled the guy top of turn 4, round 2 the guy surrendered after it continued to turn 6, and i will report back next week for round 3 and 4.

@ round 2 the chaos guy tried the warp time chaos termie combi melta my leviathan and failed miserably caz the 4+ invul for the lulz

So far this list is just GG and a lot of hate and discontent ftw.

Are the kill teams just equipped with boltguns?

I checked the leviathan rules and all of it's weapon system are crazily op. You pay 50 points for something that does 2x time the damage of a double lascan. And the body is a bargain for 175.

Audustum wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
We only get the psychic powers, the book limits everything else to chapters found within Codex Space Marines.

The book defines Space Marines as being the Codex compliant chapters I believe. Wouldn't DW be limited to using the Index still? I know Warhammer Community said you could use Codex datasheet for now, but I heard nothing on psychic powers.

There are things in the codex available to us, mostly points and statline updates, just like the Space Wolves and Blood Angels though we're stuck with the index for actual units.

Hey guys, I'm thinking about adding a small Deathwatch force to my AdMech for 2000+ points and I would have liked your input on this as I don't really know how they play.

The concept I had in mind was adding a Vanguard Detachment to my main force. I'll already have two teams of 5 bolter + 5 sword Sisters of Silence in Rhinos, and so as I always loved Terminators I thought about adding 5 or 10 Terminators with either a Librarian Terminator or a Watch Captain Terminator, so that they can all deep-strike together. So I was wondering if they were any good for ranged support or better off going full CC ? I like the concept of going full Assault Cannon with maybe one or two Cyclone missile launchers, but I'm wondering if it's worth it or not. The range doesn't look so great on the Assault Cannon but otherwise they look solid. If I deep-strike them they'll be in range anyway. If I go full CC, what's the best loadout ?

Other idea was to simply use regular Veterans with a Watch Master for full rerolls to hit, equipped with Frag Cannons and Heavy Bolters. Thinking a bit about Vanguard Veterans for full CC too, they look great and mobile enough.

Your thoughts on this ? Thanks in advance !

Are the kill teams just equipped with boltguns?

No, my load is one combi-plasma, one frag cannon and sergeant with power sword.

Hey guys, I'm thinking about adding a small Deathwatch force to my AdMech for 2000+ points and I would have liked your input on this as I don't really know how they play.

The concept I had in mind was adding a Vanguard Detachment to my main force. I'll already have two teams of 5 bolter + 5 sword Sisters of Silence in Rhinos, and so as I always loved Terminators I thought about adding 5 or 10 Terminators with either a Librarian Terminator or a Watch Captain Terminator, so that they can all deep-strike together. So I was wondering if they were any good for ranged support or better off going full CC ? I like the concept of going full Assault Cannon with maybe one or two Cyclone missile launchers, but I'm wondering if it's worth it or not. The range doesn't look so great on the Assault Cannon but otherwise they look solid. If I deep-strike them they'll be in range anyway. If I go full CC, what's the best loadout ?

Other idea was to simply use regular Veterans with a Watch Master for full rerolls to hit, equipped with Frag Cannons and Heavy Bolters. Thinking a bit about Vanguard Veterans for full CC too, they look great and mobile enough.

Your thoughts on this ? Thanks in advance !

They play like space marines with less bodies and a bit more punch per marine.

Termies are too expensive, deathwatch termies are even more expensive, however they have a lot more versatility than regular SM termies.

If you are gonna run deathwatch with Admech, which I do as well (and experimented), I run deathwatch as primary with AC razorback spam/rush, along with cheap 5 men vanguard with plasma on foot as support along with dragoons for poking things. If running deathwatch as support, you should get a corvus/razorback/land raider for support and transport for mahreens. Admech lacks mobility and transport, them death plobbing bots is strong, but not against all the dakka in this edition.

Thanks for the input ! I think I'll run a 5 men squad of Veterans with a Watch Master, and use them as mid-close ranged unit, with one or two frag cannons and the rest I'll see.

Am I correct in assuming the Infernus heavy bolter looks overcosted and relatively useless ? Why have a heavy flamer on your heavy bolter ?

Thoughts on the Deathwatch shotgun ? It looked interesting at first (and cheap + good-looking) but I believe a regular bolter with the special ammunition might do the job as well as it is. I think I'll end up using at least one for the sake of it.

So in a 5 men squad I'm going towards having one with Frag-cannon, one with Shotgun, one stock, and a Sergeant and Black Shields with CC weapons and pistols. All in a Razorback with twin Lascannon with the Watch Master. That way as they all have assault weapons they can Advance and still shoot with the rerolls from the HQ if need be, or simply close the gap between their target without any malus before engaging in CC.

I feel more inclined to having this setup because I feel like it's a waste to have two models with 3A each and three others with 2A each and not go in CC with them. Even considering replacing the stock one with a bolt pistol and a chainsword or other CC weapon maybe. He'll still have the special ammo and he'll have the range to hit thanks to the Razorback.

Thoughts on the Venerable Dreadnought ? I may end up buying the Start Collecting box so I might as well add him to my army. I'd equip the twin Lascannon, with the CCW + heavy flamer. That way I have even more Lascannons.

Ven Dreads are alright, you just have to plan things out so they don't move about too much or find them frustrating.

Came to report more tabling occurred for NOVA prep.

I played against an eldar player for local NOVA prep, wiped his army except for one autarch. End score is 13 against 5. I got 3 obj, all secondary, and max tertiary,

I lost 2 kill teams, razorback and sadly my leviathan.

Deathwatch is very viable for tourney, especially with SIA the ability to deal with anything. Also AC razorback couple with watchmaster is OP.

 fr3ddy wrote:
Came to report more tabling occurred for NOVA prep.

I played against an eldar player for local NOVA prep, wiped his army except for one autarch. End score is 13 against 5. I got 3 obj, all secondary, and max tertiary,

I lost 2 kill teams, razorback and sadly my leviathan.

Deathwatch is very viable for tourney, especially with SIA the ability to deal with anything. Also AC razorback couple with watchmaster is OP.

Are you kitting out your killteams much or just running them with straight bolters? Whats your opinion of stalker boltguns, are they too expensive for what they offer?

Also, how crucial is the Deimos LR in your list? I was thinking of just taking a crusader or regular lr since thats what I have. Still slowly adding razorbacks to my collection.

So I've finally settled for a loadout for the auxiliary Deathwatch force that will accompany my AdMech in their insatiable quest for knowledge ! Here goes:

- 1 Watch Master;
- 5 Deathwatch Veterans, with 1x Frag-Cannon, 1x Deathwatch Shotgun, 1x sergeant with bolt pistol & Xenophase blade, 1x Black Shield with Storm Shield & Power Maul;
- 5 Deathwatch Vanguard Veterans, with 4x Power Swords + Bolt pistol veterans, and the sergeant with Power Lance & Storm Shield;
- 1x Razorback with twin-lascannon;
- 1x Venerable Dreadnought with twin-lascannon, CC weapon & Heavy flamer.

The Veterans and the Watch Master travel with the Razorback, while the Vanguard either deep strike or jump from cover to cover to their target, depending on the battlefield. The Razorback disembarks its passengers, they unleash all their firepower onto their targets, and if there's still some alive, finish them off with a charge if it's reasonable.

I kept the Vanguard reasonably cheap with power weapons, it's easy to be tempted to buy a heavy thunder hammer but they're far too flimsy to carry so much 30 pts weapons out in the open. Any thoughts on this loadout guys ?

Are you kitting out your killteams much or just running them with straight bolters? Whats your opinion of stalker boltguns, are they too expensive for what they offer?

Also, how crucial is the Deimos LR in your list? I was thinking of just taking a crusader or regular lr since thats what I have. Still slowly adding razorbacks to my collection.

Combi-plas, frag cannon (always frag cannon), and power sword on sergeant. Stalker bolter? It has its use if you want to stay static. Depending on your play style.
Frag cannon will ruin your opponent's day. Like how i killed en entire blob of jetbikes with 2 frag cannons.

Helios land raider offers the ability to shoot stuff out of line of sight with ability to hurt most vehicles and all infantry.

 fr3ddy wrote:

Are you kitting out your killteams much or just running them with straight bolters? Whats your opinion of stalker boltguns, are they too expensive for what they offer?

Also, how crucial is the Deimos LR in your list? I was thinking of just taking a crusader or regular lr since thats what I have. Still slowly adding razorbacks to my collection.

Combi-plas, frag cannon (always frag cannon), and power sword on sergeant. Stalker bolter? It has its use if you want to stay static. Depending on your play style.
Frag cannon will ruin your opponent's day. Like how i killed en entire blob of jetbikes with 2 frag cannons.

Helios land raider offers the ability to shoot stuff out of line of sight with ability to hurt most vehicles and all infantry.

Thanks for answering all of my questions. How did it go at NOVA?

I picked up a small force of Deathwatch last edition (mostly the boxed games) and curious about what it would take to bump it up to a real game. Any value in the Jump packs or Bikes or the Dreadnaught? In terms of Kill Teams you're saying a 244 point setup with:

Bolter+Power Sword
Bolter+Chain Sword
Bolter+Chain Sword
Combi Plasma
Frag Cannon
Assault Cannon Razorback

Is there anything worth running without diving into the Forge World stuff?

 LunarSol wrote:
I picked up a small force of Deathwatch last edition (mostly the boxed games) and curious about what it would take to bump it up to a real game. Any value in the Jump packs or Bikes or the Dreadnaught? In terms of Kill Teams you're saying a 244 point setup with:

Bolter+Power Sword
Bolter+Chain Sword
Bolter+Chain Sword
Combi Plasma
Frag Cannon
Assault Cannon Razorback

Is there anything worth running without diving into the Forge World stuff?

Corvus Blackstar for sure. Get a couple more Razorbacks, Dreadnought is a reliable beast and will soak up plenty of shots. In the Corvus you want to have a mixed kill team and in the Razorbacks boltgun and chainswords for 95 points cant complain for that nasty unit of 5.

Cool. Thanks for the advice. I think I might try the Dreadnought, Blackstar, a pair of Razorbacks and 3 kill teams with Watch Master and Artemis to start and build from there.

What are people's thoughts on Vanguard this edition? Are any of the pistols worth paying extra for or does the SI Ammo get the job done?

What are people's thoughts on Vanguard this edition? Are any of the pistols worth paying extra for or does the SI Ammo get the job done?

Vanguard is alright. Bolt pistol will be alright.

Casual games vanguard does alright and decent. Put them in a corvus and drop them behind enemy turf and charge out with power swords to slice through those devastators, havocs, lootas, eldar thingys, and anything with big gun looking funny at your super special mahreens.

Haven't ran them in competitive setting.

Cool. Definitely more of a "well, I've got the models so I might as well try them" question than anything. Probably throw a Heavy Thunder Hammer on one for the funzies. Any loadouts worth adding to a full kill team dropped out of the corvus to let them fall back? I feel like they might be more effective as a splash than as a full unit on their own.