Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Been sifting through all the 8th edition stuff I can find, and I can't find mention of the Iron Hands anywhere. They aren't even listed in Index: Imperium 1. Has GW removed them from the game? Quite worried as They are the only army I have that is big enough to actually play real full sized games with. And If there aren't official rules I will have trouble actually finding a game in my area as no one right now wants fandex stuff until we have given 8th a good try. I do NOT want to play my IH as another SM army (especially Ultramarines) in the meantime. Feels like sacrilege. Any help on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

Iron?
It's within and without.

Chapter Tactics do not exist currently, nor do the equivalents for any other army. Patience is required. We will get something later on, it will probably be in the proper Codex releases to later come.

You're using the normal Space Marines book until the Codexes/"Angels of Death" book show up and you get Chapter Tactics/actual rules. All the other main-book Marine Chapters, and all the Chaos Legions, are in the same boat.

(That said I would like to point out that Saim-Hann, Ulthwe, Biel-tan, and Alaitoc have gone without unique variant rules for eleven years now. And people with specific-Craftworld armies have been playing games with the non-differentiated core Codex. And the Eldar seem to have survived.)

Yeah, as above. The Iron Hands are like every other Space Marine Chapter now, except the Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves.
Just like 5th edition - Iron Hands were a playable force back in 5th, and every edition before that. They only because any different from the multitudes of other Chapters in 6th and 7th.
You're not playing Ultramarines with a different colour - you're playing standard Space Marines, of which everyone is just a different shade.

If you feel that Iron Hands could ONLY be played with something to make them different from the standard SM rules, then you'll either have to fandex it up, or use Death Guard rules.
If you can't do that, then you'll just have to play with them as GW intends (ie, as normal Space Marines, as they are), or not.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
And people with specific-Craftworld armies have been playing games with the non-differentiated core Codex. And the Eldar seem to have survived.)

Yeah snowflake rules aren\t neccessary. Especially not for fluff. Chapter tactics have never been about fluffy forces as they actually in many cases drive toward unfluffy armies.

Just free rules resulting in chapter tactics to the level custom colour schemes are often just to be able to chapter hopping :(

I would really like for the Iron Hands to get back it's uniqueness like Iron Fathers (kinda Techmarine Chaplains), no Chaplains, Dread HQs (okay this is just something they should have), terminator sergeants, as well the unique chapter organization where each clan was it's own unique complete force rather than what was presented in the 7th codex (i know, i know this is 8th), and Kardan Stronos gone. That guy is just horrible writing on display. Would love to have some named unique characters even if I have to kitbash them (Forgeworld doesn't count that guy was horrible). Iron Hands weren't always so generic. They were slowly turned into that. I'm not so much talking about "free rules" as much as I am talking about a unique army that has been made generic and bland since I started playing it. Iron Hands aren't ordinary space marines, just as Black Templar aren't ordinary space marines.

I doubt terminator sergents will be back (it basicly means IH tac squads can't use rhinos.and is just sort of a pain over all) but other stuff I'd like to see, keep in mind the general chapter orginization in the 78th edition codex was simply an example of how a codex chapter is orginized.

BrianDavion wrote:
I doubt terminator sergents will be back (it basicly means IH tac squads can't use rhinos.and is just sort of a pain over all) but other stuff I'd like to see, keep in mind the general chapter orginization in the 78th edition codex was simply an example of how a codex chapter is orginized.

I am sure something could be worked out. After all Space wolves have/had essentially the same thing as terminator sergeants. Iron Hands are supposed to be good with machines so them somehow able to still use rhinos would be fitting and not op. Plus I wouldn't mind some bionics related stuff as I have gone to a lot of work converting and kit bashing models to make them look like they have bionics. Not the easiest thing to do on certain models. That example was forced onto the Iron Hands. They weren't organized like that before. Iron Hands are actually less compliant than I would say blood angels are imo. I admit some of this is me wishlisting, but I would really like to be able to play the IH as the IH without having to houserule, fandex, or play as entirely different army. I like space wolves, would like to start a space wolf army sometime; but I just don't want to play my Iron Hands as a space wolf army or as a smurf army. I have a small game ad mech army (800 pts), but from what I have seen so far for the ad mech rules, they will be collecting dust this edition.

trtue I suppose if the space wolves can do it no reason not to allow IHs to do it.

that said in 8th edition GW is apt to try and create some new factions, Iron Hands may one day get a codex again.

So, as I said last time you brought this up, we've never had different rules for our different Orders. Our 6 "First Founding" Orders weren't even mentioned in our own codex, nor were our founding saints, important figures, and origins.

You're a Space Marine chapter, and use Space Marine units. Your fluff as Iron Hands comes from how your models are painted. Your army didn't go anywhere, it's still there.

If you deserve special chapter rules, the Order of the Argent Shroud would also like special rules to differentiate us from the Order of Our Martyred Lady, and the Cadian 9125th Armored would like to have special rules to differentiate us from the Catachan 673rd and the Valhallan 1298th.

I'm sure the Eldar would like rules for different Craftworlds, and the Tau would like rules for different Septs, and the Dark Eldar would like rules for different Kabals, and the Orks would like rules for different Klans, and the Tyranids would like rules for different Hive Fleets, etc.

You can live. The rest of us have.

With the detachment system, you can get the "feel" of Iron Hands with Vanguard and Spearhead, multiples of each if you like. Team up with AdMech if you like...

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So, as I said last time you brought this up, we've never had different rules for our different Orders. Our 6 "First Founding" Orders weren't even mentioned in our own codex, nor were our founding saints, important figures, and origins.

You're a Space Marine chapter, and use Space Marine units. Your fluff as Iron Hands comes from how your models are painted. Your army didn't go anywhere, it's still there.

If you deserve special chapter rules, the Order of the Argent Shroud would also like special rules to differentiate us from the Order of Our Martyred Lady, and the Cadian 9125th Armored would like to have special rules to differentiate us from the Catachan 673rd and the Valhallan 1298th.

I'm sure the Eldar would like rules for different Craftworlds, and the Tau would like rules for different Septs, and the Dark Eldar would like rules for different Kabals, and the Orks would like rules for different Klans, and the Tyranids would like rules for different Hive Fleets, etc.

You can live. The rest of us have.

I would imagine you would root for the Iron Hands to have something special. I mean they're all about being bitter. A concept Sister's Players understand.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So, as I said last time you brought this up, we've never had different rules for our different Orders. Our 6 "First Founding" Orders weren't even mentioned in our own codex, nor were our founding saints, important figures, and origins.

You're a Space Marine chapter, and use Space Marine units. Your fluff as Iron Hands comes from how your models are painted. Your army didn't go anywhere, it's still there.

If you deserve special chapter rules, the Order of the Argent Shroud would also like special rules to differentiate us from the Order of Our Martyred Lady, and the Cadian 9125th Armored would like to have special rules to differentiate us from the Catachan 673rd and the Valhallan 1298th.

I'm sure the Eldar would like rules for different Craftworlds, and the Tau would like rules for different Septs, and the Dark Eldar would like rules for different Kabals, and the Orks would like rules for different Klans, and the Tyranids would like rules for different Hive Fleets, etc.

You can live. The rest of us have.

I would imagine you would root for the Iron Hands to have something special. I mean they're all about being bitter. A concept Sister's Players understand.

man what is it about legions with Iron in their name being bitter and angry all the time, Iron Hands, Iron Warriors....

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So, as I said last time you brought this up, we've never had different rules for our different Orders. Our 6 "First Founding" Orders weren't even mentioned in our own codex, nor were our founding saints, important figures, and origins.

You're a Space Marine chapter, and use Space Marine units. Your fluff as Iron Hands comes from how your models are painted. Your army didn't go anywhere, it's still there.

If you deserve special chapter rules, the Order of the Argent Shroud would also like special rules to differentiate us from the Order of Our Martyred Lady, and the Cadian 9125th Armored would like to have special rules to differentiate us from the Catachan 673rd and the Valhallan 1298th.

I'm sure the Eldar would like rules for different Craftworlds, and the Tau would like rules for different Septs, and the Dark Eldar would like rules for different Kabals, and the Orks would like rules for different Klans, and the Tyranids would like rules for different Hive Fleets, etc.

You can live. The rest of us have.

The thing is each Space Marine chapter is like a different special forces. There might be some similarities and commonalities to the gear and train, but battlefield roles and specialized training varies. Kinda like US special forces. You have Marines, SEALs, Rangers< Delta Forces, ect . There might be some similar training methods (at least starting out), and some similar or shared equipment, but they receive different specialities and have different battlefield roles. Know it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Maybe Marines compared to Marine Force Recon would be a better comparison? I am not really up on the training methods and what not on other countries' militaries and not sure that would be an appropriate comparison.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So, as I said last time you brought this up, we've never had different rules for our different Orders. Our 6 "First Founding" Orders weren't even mentioned in our own codex, nor were our founding saints, important figures, and origins.

You're a Space Marine chapter, and use Space Marine units. Your fluff as Iron Hands comes from how your models are painted. Your army didn't go anywhere, it's still there.

If you deserve special chapter rules, the Order of the Argent Shroud would also like special rules to differentiate us from the Order of Our Martyred Lady, and the Cadian 9125th Armored would like to have special rules to differentiate us from the Catachan 673rd and the Valhallan 1298th.

I'm sure the Eldar would like rules for different Craftworlds, and the Tau would like rules for different Septs, and the Dark Eldar would like rules for different Kabals, and the Orks would like rules for different Klans, and the Tyranids would like rules for different Hive Fleets, etc.

You can live. The rest of us have.

I would imagine you would root for the Iron Hands to have something special. I mean they're all about being bitter. A concept Sister's Players understand.

man what is it about legions with Iron in their name being bitter and angry all the time, Iron Hands, Iron Warriors....

Probably has something to do with the fact that they have been bent over without lube more than a few times and told it was the best thing for us. And we don't have the faith like the sisters do.

 NorseSig wrote:


The thing is each Space Marine chapter is like a different special forces. There might be some similarities and commonalities to the gear and train, but battlefield roles and specialized training varies. Kinda like US special forces. You have Marines, SEALs, Rangers< Delta Forces, ect . There might be some similar training methods (at least starting out), and some similar or shared equipment, but they receive different specialities and have different battlefield roles. Know it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Maybe Marines compared to Marine Force Recon would be a better comparison? I am not really up on the training methods and what not on other countries' militaries and not sure that would be an appropriate comparison.

Eh. They aren't really trained differently. With the exception of wolfboys and swordboys, most chapters do things fundamentally the same way- toss recruits in the scout company, then work them up through devastators, assault and tactical. Unlike what the chapter tactics suggest, White Scars and Ravenguard aren't mostly bikers and assault squads, they're still trained to have a majority of tactical squads and are outfitted to be mostly tactical squads [else they wouldn't be codex chapters]. The vast majority of all marines, regardless of chapter, are trained to dakka out every problem with bolters.

It isn't that Imperial Fists spend more time on gun drills, they just have a magic accuracy bonus because the Chapter Tactics rules are wacky magical effects that skew the game away from the in-universe reality, so all biker marines come from that White chapter or that moderately special black chapter, the other black chapter jump packs harder and the other, other black chapter has a random 16% better survival rate, because iron is somehow better than transhuman biology (but only for them and orks).

[Yesh. GW could have made much better color selections when they randomly picked chapters to retroactively be First Founding]

Chapter Tactics are just useless. A layer of rules that Space Marines have because they are Space Marines, for free, without penalty, and that really it doesn't makes anything to make the army feel more fluffy, they are just a totally arbitrary layer of rules that is unnecesary.

The same goes for Legion Traits.

Those things, or are for everybody, or they shouldn't be for anyone. How you balance the armies with special snowflake bonuses agains't the others that just for not being those armies, don't have a equivalent?

 NorseSig wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So, as I said last time you brought this up, we've never had different rules for our different Orders. Our 6 "First Founding" Orders weren't even mentioned in our own codex, nor were our founding saints, important figures, and origins.

You're a Space Marine chapter, and use Space Marine units. Your fluff as Iron Hands comes from how your models are painted. Your army didn't go anywhere, it's still there.

If you deserve special chapter rules, the Order of the Argent Shroud would also like special rules to differentiate us from the Order of Our Martyred Lady, and the Cadian 9125th Armored would like to have special rules to differentiate us from the Catachan 673rd and the Valhallan 1298th.

I'm sure the Eldar would like rules for different Craftworlds, and the Tau would like rules for different Septs, and the Dark Eldar would like rules for different Kabals, and the Orks would like rules for different Klans, and the Tyranids would like rules for different Hive Fleets, etc.

You can live. The rest of us have.

The thing is each Space Marine chapter is like a different special forces. There might be some similarities and commonalities to the gear and train, but battlefield roles and specialized training varies. Kinda like US special forces. You have Marines, SEALs, Rangers< Delta Forces, ect . There might be some similar training methods (at least starting out), and some similar or shared equipment, but they receive different specialities and have different battlefield roles. Know it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Maybe Marines compared to Marine Force Recon would be a better comparison? I am not really up on the training methods and what not on other countries' militaries and not sure that would be an appropriate comparison.

So? Different orders of Sisters are like that too. Different guard regiments are like that. Different craftworlds and different septs are like that.

The Catachans train in jungle warfare, in camouflage and ambush tactics. The Mordians train in perfect ranks and iron discipline. The Steel Legion practices mechanized infantry assault, and the Valhallans practice human waves.

Our organizations are just as varied and diverse as yours, and just as specialist. If you deserve special rules for your chapter, I deserve special rules for my Regiment and my Order, and my friends deserve special rules for their Sept and their Craftworld and their Klan and their Hive Fleet.


And not that I don't think there shouldn't be regimental doctrines and chapter tactics and order preferences and things, I just think that the Space Marines receive all the love and attention and characterization, while the rest of us are whitewashed as supporting characters. We deserve at least the same level of detail.

You have not been "bent over the shaft". You have been gifted with the first and finest models and the most frequent updates and the greatest detail of any faction out there.

Actually, I'm gonna say that by their nature, Imperial Guard regiments are MUCH more different from planet to planet that any Space Marine Chapter.

You can literally have Medieval Knight-hold Imperial Guard working like Bretonia with mechanical horses and laser bows, or a more specialized Imperial Guard army that works like our real world militaries (Elisian Drop Troopers are similar), etc...

The variety is much, much, much greater than Space Marines. But Space Marines get special treatment because Space Marines.

 Galas wrote:
Actually, I'm gonna say that by their nature, Imperial Guard regiments are MUCH more different from planet to planet that any Space Marine Chapter.

You can literally have Medieval Knight-hold Imperial Guard working like Bretonia with mechanical horses and laser bows, or a more specialized Imperial Guard army that works like our real world militaries (Elisian Drop Troopers are similar), etc...

The variety is much, much, much greater than Space Marines. But Space Marines get special treatment because Space Marines.

This is why I roll my eyes whenever Black Templar people get salty about losing their codex. Several non-first founding chapters get chapter tactics, unique FoCs and even a codex at one point while the myriad of Guardsmen regiments, Craftworlds, Ork Klans and so forth are all lumped together under one blanket faction. Worse still if you remember that, at various points in the history of this game, those Regiments, Craftworlds and Klans actually had unique rules (Regiment Doctrines for Guard in 3.5 edition, Codex: Craftworlds, and various Chapter Approved lists).

What is this Space Marine whinefest? It's kind of obvious that everyone's getting something given the whole <X> that every group is getting. Regiments, Orders, Klans, Craftworlds.

Probably a way for them to give everyone a codex, maybe add a few units here or there to throw things in.

 Galas wrote:
Chapter Tactics are just useless. A layer of rules that Space Marines have because they are Space Marines, for free, without penalty, and that really it doesn't makes anything to make the army feel more fluffy, they are just a totally arbitrary layer of rules that is unnecesary.

The same goes for Legion Traits.

Those things, or are for everybody, or they shouldn't be for anyone. How you balance the armies with special snowflake bonuses agains't the others that just for not being those armies, don't have a equivalent?

Keep in mind, in theory you paid for it, it just varied from chapter to chapter, and many armies DID have something specific as a army wide universal rule, eldar had their special rule for example

Voss wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:


The thing is each Space Marine chapter is like a different special forces. There might be some similarities and commonalities to the gear and train, but battlefield roles and specialized training varies. Kinda like US special forces. You have Marines, SEALs, Rangers< Delta Forces, ect . There might be some similar training methods (at least starting out), and some similar or shared equipment, but they receive different specialities and have different battlefield roles. Know it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Maybe Marines compared to Marine Force Recon would be a better comparison? I am not really up on the training methods and what not on other countries' militaries and not sure that would be an appropriate comparison.

Eh. They aren't really trained differently. With the exception of wolfboys and swordboys, most chapters do things fundamentally the same way- toss recruits in the scout company, then work them up through devastators, assault and tactical. Unlike what the chapter tactics suggest, White Scars and Ravenguard aren't mostly bikers and assault squads, they're still trained to have a majority of tactical squads and are outfitted to be mostly tactical squads [else they wouldn't be codex chapters]. The vast majority of all marines, regardless of chapter, are trained to dakka out every problem with bolters. It isn't that Imperial Fists spend more time on gun drills, they just have a magic accuracy bonus because the Chapter Tactics rules are wacky magical effects that skew the game away from the in-universe reality, so all biker marines come from that White chapter or that moderately special black chapter, the other black chapter jump packs harder and the other, other black chapter has a random 16% better survival rate, because iron is somehow better than transhuman biology (but only for them and orks).

[Yesh. GW could have made much better color selections when they randomly picked chapters to retroactively be First Founding]

"The White Scars are skilled bikers and have a tendency to use them as the core of a force."

There, I explained it. The GW explanation for BA assault troops was always kind of wack. Instead of saying that their tactical squads will sometimes wear jump packs just say that they like to use them as the core of an army.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

Voss wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:


The thing is each Space Marine chapter is like a different special forces. There might be some similarities and commonalities to the gear and train, but battlefield roles and specialized training varies. Kinda like US special forces. You have Marines, SEALs, Rangers< Delta Forces, ect . There might be some similar training methods (at least starting out), and some similar or shared equipment, but they receive different specialities and have different battlefield roles. Know it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Maybe Marines compared to Marine Force Recon would be a better comparison? I am not really up on the training methods and what not on other countries' militaries and not sure that would be an appropriate comparison.

Eh. They aren't really trained differently. With the exception of wolfboys and swordboys, most chapters do things fundamentally the same way- toss recruits in the scout company, then work them up through devastators, assault and tactical. Unlike what the chapter tactics suggest, White Scars and Ravenguard aren't mostly bikers and assault squads, they're still trained to have a majority of tactical squads and are outfitted to be mostly tactical squads [else they wouldn't be codex chapters]. The vast majority of all marines, regardless of chapter, are trained to dakka out every problem with bolters. It isn't that Imperial Fists spend more time on gun drills, they just have a magic accuracy bonus because the Chapter Tactics rules are wacky magical effects that skew the game away from the in-universe reality, so all biker marines come from that White chapter or that moderately special black chapter, the other black chapter jump packs harder and the other, other black chapter has a random 16% better survival rate, because iron is somehow better than transhuman biology (but only for them and orks).

[Yesh. GW could have made much better color selections when they randomly picked chapters to retroactively be First Founding]

"The White Scars are skilled bikers and have a tendency to use them as the core of a force."

There, I explained it.

You didn't explain anything. What chapter tactics actually did was encourage players to make all non-DA bike forces White Scars, and White Scar forces to leave 80% of the chapter at home and largely bring bikes.

A fondness for bikes sounds like it could be fluffy, but given the kinds of actions marines undertake in a wide variety of environments, a fixation on bikes at an organizational level is incoherent gibberish.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
"The White Scars are skilled bikers and have a tendency to use them as the core of a force."

There, I explained it. The GW explanation for BA assault troops was always kind of wack. Instead of saying that their tactical squads will sometimes wear jump packs just say that they like to use them as the core of an army.

I disagree with this notion of "they're good at it, so ALWAYS use it", for the reasons as stated by Voss, but also that you pretty much disagree with your own point in the same paragraph.

GW: "Blood Angels are skilled jump packers, and like to wear jump packs"
NivlacSupreme: "White Scars are skilled bikers, and like to ride them"
Yet you say one is "kind of wack?"

The difference between Blood Angels and White Scars is that one follows the Codex fairly strongly, yet the other is classed as Codex Divergent. Funnily enough, it's the White Scars who are said to follow the Codex, so it's more likely that they would field standard Tactical Marines on foot. They still follow the codex.
It's like with Raven Guard - they still have plenty of Devastators, despite being good jump packers, or, to take it to the Heresy, World Eater tank crews and Recon squads.

The idea that "they're skilled in it, so always field X" leads to factions becoming one-note, and rather bland, if I do say so myself. Instead, they might have a predilection for X, but still field things as according to the Codex, which they are obviously still adherent to.
Want an all Bike list? Take 6th Company, of ANY Codex Adherent Marine Chapter.

With regards to the main OP of this complaining about IH not having IH rules - when have IH had what you describe, with Terminator Sergeants and whatnot? Certainly not in 5th Edition, and not in 4th to my knowledge. Even when they had Chapter Tactics, all they had was a 6++ and IWND, because bionics? In fact, is it still canon that they deploy Terminator Sergeants, or is that now retconned, like Black Templars being far beyond the size of any other Chapter?

Do you not think that Guardsmen are more deserving of some form of differentiation? Space Marines, for all their cool fluff, are more or less the same. Guardsmen? You really mean to say there's as much difference between the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists as there is between the Tanith and the Harakoni Warhawks, or the Salvar Chem-Dogs and Mordians?

And no - the regular SM index is NOT Ultramarines. No Chapter is playing "smurfs" if they use vanilla rules. They are playing a Codex Adherent Chapter, to some degree, of which Ultramarines are one. To say that is like saying "I won't use the CSM book because that's only for Black Legion".

White Scars have a cultural and doctrinal affinity for mounted warfare. During 3rd edition they had rules that represented a divergent bike mounted chapter. No Dreads or Devastators. Bikes as troops, etc. Since then they lost a lot of that and have been forced into a codex chapter so they can remain in the Space Marine Codex.

Iron Hands also had chapter specific rules in 3rd Edition. They were mainly striped down Space Wolves. Tacticals could have Terminator Sgt and such. The rules were invalidated with the release of the 4th edition Space Marine Codex.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
White Scars have a cultural and doctrinal affinity for mounted warfare. During 3rd edition they had rules that represented a divergent bike mounted chapter. No Dreads or Devastators. Bikes as troops, etc. Since then they lost a lot of that and have been forced into a codex chapter so they can remain in the Space Marine Codex.

Iron Hands also had chapter specific rules in 3rd Edition. They were mainly striped down Space Wolves. Tacticals could have Terminator Sgt and such. The rules were invalidated with the release of the 4th edition Space Marine Codex.

You're thinking of the 4th edition space marine codex there bud. The 3rd one didn't even differentiate between chapters.

However I liked that Codex's mechanic, the "Chapter Traits" system. It not only had a good and efficient way to build up the 6 founding chapters, but it also gave you a chance to make your own (Blood Ravens was featured as having a lot of infantry-based tactics). The only reason that one was remembered fondly (at least by those that can still remember it) was because it was relatively fair (i.e: everything you got came with a drawback, so no "free" rules) and at the time there were similar rules in other codexes (the aforementioned Regimental Doctrines, as well as Hive Fleet rules and Mutants for nids, and of course Craftworlds).

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Actually, I'm gonna say that by their nature, Imperial Guard regiments are MUCH more different from planet to planet that any Space Marine Chapter.

You can literally have Medieval Knight-hold Imperial Guard working like Bretonia with mechanical horses and laser bows, or a more specialized Imperial Guard army that works like our real world militaries (Elisian Drop Troopers are similar), etc...

The variety is much, much, much greater than Space Marines. But Space Marines get special treatment because Space Marines.

This is why I roll my eyes whenever Black Templar people get salty about losing their codex. Several non-first founding chapters get chapter tactics, unique FoCs and even a codex at one point while the myriad of Guardsmen regiments, Craftworlds, Ork Klans and so forth are all lumped together under one blanket faction. Worse still if you remember that, at various points in the history of this game, those Regiments, Craftworlds and Klans actually had unique rules (Regiment Doctrines for Guard in 3.5 edition, Codex: Craftworlds, and various Chapter Approved lists).

Probably has to do with SM selling more modals then then everything else you mentioned put together. Chapter tactics lets the SM vs SM games witch are pretty common seem alot less like a mirror match and like you each have your own unique force because of chapter tactics encouraging different list as the most effective rather then just the normal spam the best units in the codex.

I just hope they don't layer more rules on top of the current rules for Space Marines for no cost or uneven effect for the same cost.

Instead, I hope they use the design space they gave themselves with detachments and stratagems to flavor the different chapters/legions.

For example, wouldn't be awesome if you gained access to two unique stratagems useable only for units in your chapter if all units in your detachment had the Chapter keyword. Like:

Encirclement (1 CP): During deployment, you may place a White Scars Dedicated Transport (any any embarked units) or Bike unit into reserve. At the end of any of your Movement Phase, you may place this unit within 6" of any board edge and more then 9" away from enemy models.

No free points or powers, but totally captures part of the White Scars battle strategy.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:


You're thinking of the 4th edition space marine codex there bud. The 3rd one didn't even differentiate between chapters.

White Dwarf ran a series called Index Astartes that were later put into a book series under the same name. Each Legion/Chapter was given special rules in those articles.Which actually was the second set of rules for the WS. The first was a back of the napkins list the rules designers wrote for Paul Sawyer for a WD Battle Report. All of which took place during 3rd edition.