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Yeah I agree, the only two things that can be said for sure in a Yncarne list are that it needs to be very aggressive and not include Yvraine (she should be in every other Ynnari list so deserves a break).

I've had a little success with the Yncarne so far. It's true that he can't charge on the turn he shows up, but if he shows up on the enemy's turn then you're fine, and often they won't have the firepower left to seriously threaten him even if they can target him.

Galef - jetbikes move 16" - you need not advance with them anyways. However - if you do and kill a unit within 7" you will get to shoot twice instead of once - clearly better than +1 BS on the advance. Battle focus is trash. it's too bad it doesn't let you advance with heavy weapons and shoot - then we would actually have a choice to make.


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Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Can Word of the Pheonix affect units that are Ynnari but don't have strength from death? Like War Walkers for example.

Two units that I think would be great to cast it on are Wraithguard with D-scythes or Dark Reapers. A blob of 10 Scythe Guard could be made to move and advance twice for a 10+ 2d6" move and still shoot. That's a 25" threat range, fortune and conceal would make them pretty tough. 10 Dark Reapers firing twice seems nasty too.

No - you have to have the strength from death rule to use a soul-burst action - even from word of the phoenix.

 Xenomancers wrote:

No - you have to have the strength from death rule to use a soul-burst action - even from word of the phoenix.

You definitely don't. It seems like a mistake but the only limitation is that it has to be a Ynnari unit, it does not require the SfD rule.

War Walkers with Guide and WotP are cool.

Dionysodorus wrote:
I've had a little success with the Yncarne so far. It's true that he can't charge on the turn he shows up, but if he shows up on the enemy's turn then you're fine, and often they won't have the firepower left to seriously threaten him even if they can target him.

I have found the Yncarne to be insanely good. So far I've killed 2 hammerheads and 5 crisis suits (in 1 game), a stormraven and a bunch of terminators (another game), a monolith and a few necron characters, and even more stuff that I can't remember. The key is to utilize soulburst to fight twice whenever possible by dunking small units or characters while still being within range of another unit. This requires you to fully utilize your large base and full 8" fly movement.

I run him alongside mono Harlequins and it's a great combo since I put myself on top of them turn one and then dare them to pop one of my transports.

I think my biggest problem with the Yncarne is that Yvraine is just so powerful. Yvraine has been an amazing utility piece for me, moving units to get the charge, denying psychic powers like crazy, letting a unit shoot twice. Because words of the phoenix can only be used once, the power Yncarne and Yvraine drops a lot when both are on the field.

That is why I think should be one or another, and the army needs to adapt to the choice.

I kinda like Ynnari Harlequins-based army in the perspective of fast-hitting, summon-Yncarne-on-enemy turn strategy. If you could make an acceptable alpha strike that cripples the enemy you can probably make out alive without the Rising Crescendo rule, which is absolutely amazing and it's not advisable to renounce it in normal circumstances...
But probably the setting with Yvraine, reapers, flocks etc is easier to pull out.

I feel the Hemlock is a nice piece to have there, it should pair up with something extremely fast and deadly in order to help it out with conceal and two happy, little D-Scythes. But what unit... Skyweavers? Shining Spears? It probably has to be bikes, but also a WS with Fire Dragons on it sounds good.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

I would also add that I don't think MSU is always the way to go: you trigger SfD more often but it's not used as well by a min sized unit as by a big one. The best things to SfD with are big units of Firedragons or Wraithguard getting to shoot twice or Shining Spears and WarpSpiders that can jump to safey after killing something.

I'd agree with you if units of Shining Spears or Warp Spiders could actually kill any units. (don't bother saying 10 Shining Spears, that's 430 points).

With psychic backup both units become formidable.

Pick a unit and doom it and it is unlikely to survive.
Conceal gives spiders -2 to hit in retaliation. Shining spears with ancestors grace reroll 1s to shoot and fight, with rerolled all wounds against monsters and vehicle. Guide on spiders helps on overwatch as well if they get charged then they can fly out of the combat the next turn. Or you just use the mobility of both units to sfd 20 inches away after killing a unit.
Both units offer great mobility, flexibility and synergy.

Yeah, with psychic support and/or help from stuff like Night Spinners and Missile launchers (that can reach anywhere and damage anything) you will be wiping whole units to trigger SfD.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

I would also add that I don't think MSU is always the way to go: you trigger SfD more often but it's not used as well by a min sized unit as by a big one. The best things to SfD with are big units of Firedragons or Wraithguard getting to shoot twice or Shining Spears and WarpSpiders that can jump to safey after killing something.

I'd agree with you if units of Shining Spears or Warp Spiders could actually kill any units. (don't bother saying 10 Shining Spears, that's 430 points).

Jetbike units are 9 models max. But then how would you ever know about that, eh?

Oh man Yncarne is a beast.

Pro tip if you have not figured this out already. if your opponent is being aggressive its absolutely possible to get him into combat immediately, through Herioc intervention.

His ability prevents *charging* the turn he arrives. However, herioc intervention states.. in summary.. after enemy units have charged, a character within 3" of enemy models may make a 3" pile in move to the closest enemy model.. The beauty of this, is that it does not even have to be a charging unit .. you just spawn and hope your opponent was aggressive for the upcoming charges. Works amazingly well. *Note, you can only do this on your opponents turn.. because herioc intervention can only be used when your opponent charges.

I find it incredibly challenging to find a reason not to bring him into a list. at 337 pts he is a steal. Auras, psychic, and a monster in CC.

So is it not worth running mono Harlequins? And just better to run them as Yannari? I tried looking for some tactics on just them and all im seeing is to mix with Ynnari

Grizzyzz wrote:Oh man Yncarne is a beast.

Pro tip if you have not figured this out already. if your opponent is being aggressive its absolutely possible to get him into combat immediately, through Herioc intervention.

I didn't thought about that. Worth to try against hyper-aggressive stuff like alpha stike genos and similar. TY.

str00dles1 wrote:So is it not worth running mono Harlequins? And just better to run them as Yannari? I tried looking for some tactics on just them and all im seeing is to mix with Ynnari

As a 100% mono Harlequin player I personally find their rule Rising Crescendo too useful to give it up, even for an amazing rule like SfD. Their ability to advance-charge, fall back and do whatever you see fit is key for them, which are still very squishy and must pick their fights with caution.

Yeah rising crescendo is really good.. I am not totally sure a full harliquin army benefits more from Ynnari.

I think Ynnari shines when you have a mix of shooting/melee. For the flexibility of SfD. Craftworlds benefit the most from being Ynnari imo, next is Dark Eldar, but power from pain is no joke either.

Wyldcarde wrote:
With psychic backup both units become formidable.

Pick a unit and doom it and it is unlikely to survive.
Conceal gives spiders -2 to hit in retaliation. Shining spears with ancestors grace reroll 1s to shoot and fight, with rerolled all wounds against monsters and vehicle. Guide on spiders helps on overwatch as well if they get charged then they can fly out of the combat the next turn. Or you just use the mobility of both units to sfd 20 inches away after killing a unit.
Both units offer great mobility, flexibility and synergy.

So how exactly are you getting 2 Warlocks and 2 farseers that both, keep up with those units, and then cheat by casting the same power more than once while miraculously actually guaranteeing the power casts successfully?

"This thing is great when unlikely and illegal things happen" isn't very strong endorsement.

Nowhere in what you quoted did I talk about casting duplicate spells on either of those units. Conceal is in an aura. Hemlocks can cast conceal. Or warlocks on bikes? Both keep up just fine. Pick a flank and strike down it?
Conceal casts on 6. With a cp reroll it's likely to cast.
Farseers doom, guide and fortune from 24 inches away. They don't have to keep up. Eldrad gets 3 casts, rerolls to one of those casts and +1 to future psychic rolls on successful casts.
Yvraine gets +1 to cast with ancient grace being almost as good as guide for a handy double up to guide if need be.

With command point rerolls eldar psychic has proven to be pretty reliable for me so far. The one cast per spell per turn is annoying but with smart positioning and good play it isn't hard to work around it and get what spells you need on what units you need.

One question about Yvraine.
I plan to run an "everyone is fast" Ynnari army, with Harlequins on Starweavers, Skyweavers, Striking Scorpions (deepstriking), the Yncarne, Scourges and Hellions, with maybe only Dark Reapers and a Wraithknight as footsloggers.

Is it unwise to put Yvraine on a Starweaver? I know she must disembark to use her powers, but on foot she could keep with the rest of the army. Maybe turn 1 Starweaver scoot and 2nd turn disembark into a relatively safe place.

Another one: I want to use an Autarch to give some use to the poor Visarch. Which one do you think would work better in my kind of list: an Autarch on foot to provide rerolls to the Wraithknight and Dark Reapers, or an Autarch with wings to be flexible and able to support also the Scorpions (and maybe get some Fusion Gun shots)?

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

No - you have to have the strength from death rule to use a soul-burst action - even from word of the phoenix.

You definitely don't. It seems like a mistake but the only limitation is that it has to be a Ynnari unit, it does not require the SfD rule.

War Walkers with Guide and WotP are cool.

Hummm - if that is correct starcannon warwalkers just became the best unit in the codex. However - I don't think the spell is intended to work like this. I think this will probably be discussed in a FAQ at some point. Plus the interactions with a wraith-knight will be flat broken.

As a Harlequin player by default, I can see no harm on embarking Yvraine on a Starweaver like she was a Shadowseer and disembark her later, even more considering the fast-paced army you run. Like in Quins' armies you need the seer mostly after your clowns are down, the same could be in this case.
And notably if you manage to make the Yncarne appear early, you can easily compensate Yvraine's missed WotP with the one the Yncarne can manifest.

For the Autarch issue I'd opt for the one on foot, as you don't have a Farseer to guide the reapers or the WK and the Autarch's re-roll of 1s is a good replacer. I wouldn't worry too much for the scorpions, they could just be a diversion and if in cover they can manage things alone quite well (or draw away some fire, which is equally good).

 Bloodshade wrote:
As a Harlequin player by default, I can see no harm on embarking Yvraine on a Starweaver like she was a Shadowseer and disembark her later, even more considering the fast-paced army you run. Like in Quins' armies you need the seer mostly after your clowns are down, the same could be in this case.
And notably if you manage to make the Yncarne appear early, you can easily compensate Yvraine's missed WotP with the one the Yncarne can manifest.

For the Autarch issue I'd opt for the one on foot, as you don't have a Farseer to guide the reapers or the WK and the Autarch's re-roll of 1s is a good replacer. I wouldn't worry too much for the scorpions, they could just be a diversion and if in cover they can manage things alone quite well (or draw away some fire, which is equally good).

Mmm nice, this goes along with what I was thinking. Thanks!! I think Wraithknight+Dark reapers+Death Jester should make turn 1 Yncarne a relatively easy prospect

In this scenario, would you arm the foot Autarch with a Reaper Launcher for support (wouldn't love to maim the Visarch for that, though ), twin Avenger Shuriken catapults or bare bones to save points?

 Bloodshade wrote:
As a Harlequin player by default, I can see no harm on embarking Yvraine on a Starweaver like she was a Shadowseer and disembark her later, even more considering the fast-paced army you run. Like in Quins' armies you need the seer mostly after your clowns are down, the same could be in this case.
And notably if you manage to make the Yncarne appear early, you can easily compensate Yvraine's missed WotP with the one the Yncarne can manifest.

For the Autarch issue I'd opt for the one on foot, as you don't have a Farseer to guide the reapers or the WK and the Autarch's re-roll of 1s is a good replacer. I wouldn't worry too much for the scorpions, they could just be a diversion and if in cover they can manage things alone quite well (or draw away some fire, which is equally good).

Agree on Yvraine, she is fine in a starweaver.. turn 2 you will be out anyway and her powers aren't good if no one is around anyway.

Do you even need the autarch.. i mean if you are running an autarch on a bike.. or anything around 100+ points.. you might as well just run the Visarch for the fun of doing so!

The Autarch should have an actual role, of course, because being a walking re-rolling 1s station is not worth his points.
My inheritance of previous editions of the game would suggest to give him a fusion gun for safety, but in 8th edition 1-shotting vehicle basically never happens.
I'd probably think of what your "static" part of the army needs and choose something that covers that. That could even be running him on bike anyways (for relocating purposes) with a clutch fusion gun and a laser lance if you feel him like charging some approaching threat to save your reapers.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

No - you have to have the strength from death rule to use a soul-burst action - even from word of the phoenix.

You definitely don't. It seems like a mistake but the only limitation is that it has to be a Ynnari unit, it does not require the SfD rule.

War Walkers with Guide and WotP are cool.

Hummm - if that is correct starcannon warwalkers just became the best unit in the codex. However - I don't think the spell is intended to work like this. I think this will probably be discussed in a FAQ at some point. Plus the interactions with a wraith-knight will be flat broken.

Ok, so I did a little research...

On June 23rd the WarhammerTV Twitch channel played a battle between Ynnari and Astra Militarum.

Here is the link (you need to be a twitch subscriber to watch):
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/153865525

At 22:01 - Chris Casts Word of the Phoenix on a unit of War Walkers (which do not have SfD)

At 22:36 - Successfully Cast the power (Perils to Yvraine)

At 22:59 - A chat member asks a question about whether or not Chris was able to cast that power on the Warwalkers because they do not have SfD. The game is paused for an official ruling.

At 25:05 - Rob from GW states that Strength from Death is a rule on the model. Word of the phoenix says you can make a Ynnari unit Soulburst. Rob from GW allows the Word of the Phoenix to work on non-SfD units.

That's about as official as it needs to be. I think they believe the wording to be clear. At least after listening to Rob explain it.

Soulbursting Wraithknights (or whatever) are totally a thing!

Wow... I thouht that was just an obvious oversight.. but to hear GW play it that way......

BTW.. warwalkers are not the optimal unit for this. I think a unit of hornets would be. OR getting a dbl move on a Wraithknight for turn 1 charge would be the better ways to go.

I mean, if you want to talk optimal we've got to start looking at the Revenant Titan and Vampire Hunter.

Of course, you probably don't really want to be taking three double starcannon or pulse laser light vehicles -- that's a lot of points on pretty fragile bodies. I think you probably want to mostly just use WotP to give an extra shooting phase to units that you're already happy bringing. Like a shooty Wraithknight if you're into that, or a Crimson Hunter. A Hunter is a perfectly good unit by itself and basically has 4 bright lances.

3WW full Starcannon are 363 points.
12 S6 AP-3 D3 at 36". Twice with WotP (cheapest is Yvraine at 132). 495 total.

I mean, it's an actually s**t storm for the enemy, but plain 1/4 of your army goes there.

I don't know, it's both a good and a bad idea.

 Bloodshade wrote:
The Autarch should have an actual role, of course, because being a walking re-rolling 1s station is not worth his points.
My inheritance of previous editions of the game would suggest to give him a fusion gun for safety, but in 8th edition 1-shotting vehicle basically never happens.
I'd probably think of what your "static" part of the army needs and choose something that covers that. That could even be running him on bike anyways (for relocating purposes) with a clutch fusion gun and a laser lance if you feel him like charging some approaching threat to save your reapers.

You know what? You just got me into buying a Hellion Skyboard to mount the Visarch on for a "biker" conversion He will look bitchin and the laser lance profile will make his sword justice.

Yvraine and a Revenant cost 1332 points, and that's allowing you to shoot twice and reroll 1s with a BS2+ model that is equipped with two 60" Heavy 2D6 S12 AP-4 D6 Damage pulsars and one 48" Heavy 2D6 S8 AP-2 D3 Damage cloudburst missile launcher. With split fire the fact that they're individual pulsars rather than twinlinked that other units take means you can shoot at six different units per turn. But you're still going to come up very short against 1332 points of horde.

 DanielFM wrote:

You know what? You just got me into buying a Hellion Skyboard to mount the Visarch on for a "biker" conversion He will look bitchin and the laser lance profile will make his sword justice.

That's actually a brilliant idea!

"The surfing Visarch, who said Ynnari are boring? Join us, Ynnead stirs (on a skyboard for now)"

Yvraine should hire me as a PR manager and content creator at once.