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pretre wrote: Can we not start the Seraphim save debate again? He asked a simple question and it was answered.
Especially since it's not a debate because BCB is wrong.
I literally could not be more correct. The FAQ even explicitly spells it out. You must do re-rolls before modifiers. Seraphim re-rolls are MANDATORY, so you must re-roll 5's.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MacPhail wrote: Somehow I missed the whole debate... without reopening, what was the verdict?
There is no debate, only people playing by the rules and people not playing by the rules. Because Seraphim's re-roll effect is not optional, you are forced to re-roll 5s, even if you have a +1 to the save.
Ahhhh... I see. As you were, everyone, no need to reopen the discussion on my account.
MacPhail wrote: Ahhhh... I see. As you were, everyone, no need to reopen the discussion on my account.
Please, let's follow MacPhail's advice.
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Normally I'd limit this to P&M, but y'all have been generous with both tactical and aesthetic guidance, and folks might want to see Zefig's Shapeways components in action and maybe build some Repressors of their own, so... here's one of two, far from done, but you can see how the refit parts and paint scheme are working out. More details in my P&M blog.
Yeah I have his turrets (they are great) that I used to covert some repressors out of until I was forced to find the sculpt for Adepticon and some local larger events.
All my lists I've toyed with have always had full 10-girl squads, but I found I just couldn't fill out a full Brigade. With just 5-girl squads I found I could do a full Brigade plus an Outrider detachment, and have points left over. But I'm worried about not having enough staying power.
Do any of you have success with only 5-girl squads?
And is it 2019 yet? I want my plastic sisters.....
All I use are 5 girl squads, on everything. Removes the morale liability, brings more special weapons on the table and lets you double up in Repressors.
dracpanzer wrote: All I use are 5 girl squads, on everything. Removes the morale liability, brings more special weapons on the table and lets you double up in Repressors.
Yep, pretty much this. I think the only squad I go above 5 is Seraphim.
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Likewise on mostly 5-strong. If I have a few points and I've already maxxed out stormbolters everywhere I can, I'll add an extra Seraphim or Retributer to give a squad some staying power when I think they'll be taking some hits.
I take six-strong Dominion melta squads in my Repressors. Six models can fire out the ports so that gives you 4 Meltas + 1 Combi-Melta + 1 Krak Grenade (synergistic 6" range). And then when the transport inevitably explodes, you've got the perfect volunteer to take that roll of 1 and save your expensive meltas.
Since the rule of three I'd only really consider doubling up 5-strong BSS in a Repressor - vanguard moving three vehicles is just so great.
There's really no reason to have them higher htan five, barring Seraphim.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 00:55:44
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
pretre wrote: Up to you. I generally don't think there's such a thing as too much melta though.
I never met a meltagun I didnt like
I take my melta on seraphim not doms, my doms are scouting/vanguard every game and i dont want costly units up front. The Seraphim at least will have a 5++ and re-roll with 3-6 wounds before any melta is killed off.
My Dominion are all about the front lines. With Meltas. Immediately. I also don't take minimum sized squads. So they stay dangerous for a bit and do serious wrecking. Can't afford to allow the heavy hitters their day in court. Acts of Faith aren't sure enough ways to get there even though its a cool trick. I want the certainty of destruction from the word go. My dead pile gets bigger but my wins pile up just as fast. =)
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
pretre wrote: Up to you. I generally don't think there's such a thing as too much melta though.
I never met a meltagun I didnt like
I take my melta on seraphim not doms, my doms are scouting/vanguard every game and i dont want costly units up front. The Seraphim at least will have a 5++ and re-roll with 3-6 wounds before any melta is killed off.
My Dominion are all about the front lines. With Meltas. Immediately. I also don't take minimum sized squads. So they stay dangerous for a bit and do serious wrecking. Can't afford to allow the heavy hitters their day in court. Acts of Faith aren't sure enough ways to get there even though its a cool trick. I want the certainty of destruction from the word go. My dead pile gets bigger but my wins pile up just as fast. =)
Preach on. "The enemy can't push a button if you disable his hand."
You no longer roll dice for an Act of Faith. Instead each Act cost one Command Point. Acts are limited to one per squad per turn, but no limit on the number of Acts per turn other than your available Command Points.
You no longer roll dice for an Act of Faith. Instead each Act cost one Command Point. Acts are limited to one per squad per turn, but no limit on the number of Acts per turn other than your available Command Points.
Thoughts?
I think that's a great post for the proposed rules forum.
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You no longer roll dice for an Act of Faith. Instead each Act cost one Command Point. Acts are limited to one per squad per turn, but no limit on the number of Acts per turn other than your available Command Points.
Thoughts?
I think it would cripple the one ability we have left.
Anyone going to the Slugga?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/07 02:42:29
how is it a cripple? it lets you know that you can reliably get off X AoF when you need them, and lets you spam several Acts on the first turn to try and get a leg up early while having lettle power moves later on, use them sparingly throughout the game, or save them all for Turns 5&6 when you really need them.
phydaux wrote: how is it a cripple? it lets you know that you can reliably get off X AoF when you need them, and lets you spam several Acts on the first turn to try and get a leg up early while having lettle power moves later on, use them sparingly throughout the game, or save them all for Turns 5&6 when you really need them.
I think that's a great post for the proposed rules forum.
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My girls are performing so well on the tabletop right now, still able to go toe-to-toe with any codex army. Finally got a few post-FAQ games under my belt and wanted to share some observations and ask a few questions:
- Our mobility is absolutely insane. Double moving with AoFs, Immolators advancing+firing and Dominion Vanguard moves let you be anywhere you need to be. Our threat-ranges are obscene. My favourite tactic on Dawn of War deployment is to use the vanguard move to redeploy to a refused flank, taking out one side with overwhelming force before moving through the middle towards the other.
- Inferno pistols are brutal. I'm running a 10-strong Seraphim unit to protect them (reserving 2CP for moral) and the double-move + FLY lets you hop over everything and within a whisper of any character. I like to imagine them saying "The Emperor send his regards..." before assassinating them in a flurry of muzzle flashes. If they're still in combat at the start of your turn you can use an AoF to shoot their pistols (including Inferno!). I'm finding that these perform just as well, if not better situationally, than a Repressor full of meltaguns.
- The Canoness is one of my favourite units - just love charging them into combat. One with the Blade of Admonition and one with an Eviscerator - they absolutely wreck face. They provide great synergy for overcharging Plasma which i'm running on both of them and on my BSS superiors. Their voice in my head is the fantastic Dawn of War: Soulstorm voice-actress ("Unbelievers MUST DIE!"). So thematic.
- Every list needs a 15pt Kamikaze Sister Dialogus in an Immolator IMO. She either dies to activate Martyrdom (she's first in line if the tank blows up!) or you make her exit the tank to hold a back-field objective.
- Celestine's ability to go from 1 to 3 models on the final turn (Healing Tears + Spirit of the Martyr AoF) has allowed me to claim many an objective and win a game.
- Not a Sisters unit but my converted allied Dark Talon is worth the -1CP and 200pts IMO. 24 bolter shots hitting ground targets on 2+ is a fantastic chaff-clearing tool, and the rift cannon and stasis bomb give sorely needed access to Mortal Wounds. Plus it fits right in aesthetically.
Some questions:
- What Warlord Trait do you run with Celestine? I keep tossing between 6+++ and +1A on the charge.
- I run a mechanized list and keeping the tanks out of combat seems pretty important. If the Repressor falls back, can the people inside still shoot? This isn't explicitly expressed anywhere but I've been playing it as any shooting restrictions that apply to the tank apply to the occupants - how do you guys play it?.
I've been running the 6+++ but I think I'm going to switch to +1A. I always forget the FNP.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Re: Reppressors, yes. Good to warn your opponent at the start of the game though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/07 22:03:02
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pretre wrote: I've been running the 6+++ but I think I'm going to switch to +1A. I always forget the FNP.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Re: Reppressors, yes. Good to warn your opponent at the start of the game though.
I run with the +1A, I never make my FNP and Celestine misses for me far more than she should, the extra A on the charge always helps. I love charging stuff with my Repressors, they have to fall back to hope to shoot, you can fall back and shoot out. Like Pretre said, warn your opponent.
Interesting - so is the reasoning that the firing unit inside the Repressor did not fall back themselves? What about if there are enemies within 1" of the Repressor, and what if the Repressor advances? Pops smoke?
Rubenite wrote: Interesting - so is the reasoning that the firing unit inside the Repressor did not fall back themselves? What about if there are enemies within 1" of the Repressor, and what if the Repressor advances? Pops smoke?
Compare these two rules:
Open-topped: Models embarked on this model can attack in their Shooting phase. Measure the range and draw line of sight from any point on this model. When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers; for example, the passengers cannot shoot if this model has Fallen Back in the same turn, cannot shoot (except with Pistols) if this model is within 1" of an enemy unit, and so on. Note that the passengers cannot shoot if this model Falls Back, even though the Raider itself can.
Firing Ports: Up to six models being transported by a Sororitas Repressor can shoot in their Shooting phase, measuring and drawing line of sight from any point on the vehicle. Units that shoot in this manner count as having moved if they or the Sororitas Repressor moved in the preceding Movement phase.
The only effect that you have on passengers of a repressor is movement whereas most normal vehicles have all the restrictions of the vehicle itself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/08 02:44:04
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Wow. Maybe I will put myself through the ordeal of building a third one of these... That's unreal. Can't believe I have been unintentionally hindering myself all this time.
So Turn 1, after Vanguard move+advance, I should be strongly considering moving+advancing the Repressors, popping smoke, and firing up to six models out of the top with no penalty?
You could certainly do that. Generally, you're going to want to shoot with the tank too, but sure.
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I usually go with the +1A on Celestine when charging. Typically, she is either going to die, or she is not going to die. +1-2W isn't going to change that too much, but an extra attack now and then can be pretty clutch (splitting attacks into multiple units or threatening a high toughness/invul unit a little more).
I also play very aggressively with Celestine during the first couple of turns, too, so that has a lot to do with why I get the extra mileage out of the assault attack.
if I have Seraphim off the board, can I use an Act of Faith to give them an extra movement phase and have them show up "at the end of Movement?" And then Move-Shoot-Charge-Fight?
phydaux wrote: if I have Seraphim off the board, can I use an Act of Faith to give them an extra movement phase and have them show up "at the end of Movement?" And then Move-Shoot-Charge-Fight?
Nope.
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It looks like really good damage output and a lot of bodies to me, with pretty good alpha potential and good board control. I imagine you'll miss Celestine in at least a couple of games, especially if something gets into your lines early.
