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 deviantduck wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.

How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?

Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.

ERJAK wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.

How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?

Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.

So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...

 deviantduck wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.

How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?

Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.

So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...

If you can't beat them...get a knight yourself?

Take BA Captains/Mephestion as allies. They will murder a knight hard in CC.

bogalubov wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.

How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?

Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.

So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...

If you can't beat them...get a knight yourself?

I havent fought them yet, but my SOB list has 3 Shield captains for stuff like that lol.

Post Ro3, more and more IK and now just a cheap Battalion of SoB.

 deviantduck wrote:


How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?

Honestly, on a personal level not too bad. Probably because I've been using Harlequins and Dark Eldar more than Sisters. Haywire does a number on knights. It seems I'm not alone in thinking Sisters just don't have the tools to take on IKs at this point, meltas bounce off too easily and too often, Exorcists too unreliable, and nothing that can really hold up or do enough damage in CC.

Solutions, Ally in tools that can handle them, like your own knights, or Blood Angels HQs. Or, (what I'm doing) wait for the Sisters Dex or at least Chapter Approved to drop and play a different army in the interim.

Have Faith that help is on the way.

 deviantduck wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.

Honestly the smaller knights are probably more of a sticking point. They can rotate shields for less CP and are better able to kick their way through blocking units. Getting past them to the dominus at the back is the first problem.

Against the 4++ you'd expect one shot in every 5 or 6 attempts to land and cause 3-5 wounds. You can do worse than CP the damage roll if you have the points.

The shield stratagem makes a lot of difference, but the exorcist doesn't do enough damage to bait it out and the short range of the sisters makes it blatantly obvious which knight is going to want it. Clusters of heavy bolters with a canoness do more than you would think (if not enough to matter).

In terms of close combat squads of penitent engines will wreck knights on the charge but are too slow. Though they do have _just_ enough wounds to avoid being one-punched if they have somehow managed to avoid being shot at all game. The rest of the assault units are a bit of a wash. Three full charging squads of repentia with all the bells and whistles... won't do it, though they'd could put enough of a dent in one for the knight player to spend valuable CP to stamp on them out of sequence.

If you don't engage in melee a knight can't walk through a circle of infantry, so seraphim can briefly slow one up. If you do engage then enough rhino chassis surrounding a knight can prevent it from falling back, enough to tie up a non-combat knight for a turn or two before it stomps its way out without help. Roughly 1 wound per 3 exploding rhinos.

Otherwise pile the objectives and pray. The sisters have no special objective cards to the point control cards will come out more frequently for them.

This does not sound promising. My group is sketching out a one-off game where everyone-- everyone but me, of course-- brings all knights and superheavies. I'd run all tanks and Seraphim and hope for the best. My collection can offer 3x inferno Seraphim, 3x melta Doms, 3x Exorcists, 2x Repressors, and 4x Rhinos/Immolators as needed, plus a lone Penitent. Sounds like that isn't nearly enough.

What about target priority? Which knights have guns that can one-shot a transport? Which melee profiles do you absolutely avoid, even if it means sacrificing melta range?

 MacPhail wrote:
This does not sound promising. My group is sketching out a one-off game where everyone-- everyone but me, of course-- brings all knights and superheavies. I'd run all tanks and Seraphim and hope for the best. My collection can offer 3x inferno Seraphim, 3x melta Doms, 3x Exorcists, 2x Repressors, and 4x Rhinos/Immolators as needed, plus a lone Penitent. Sounds like that isn't nearly enough.

Exorcists have less firepower than a las-razorback against superheavy tanks. But between them and the meltas you'll be able to dogpile one or two.

 MacPhail wrote:
What about target priority? Which knights have guns that can one-shot a transport? Which melee profiles do you absolutely avoid, even if it means sacrificing melta range?

All of them can one-shot transports but the regular knights will likely need two salvos (or two weapons), more with avengers. T8 vehicles have extra protection against the battlecannon, being stepped on, and the meltas they sometimes carry.
Thunderstrike gauntlets can easily wreck a vehicle twice over in one go (particularly on the gallants who are notably more dangerous than the others close in.


Watch out for guard superheavies in close combat as they have a cheap stratagem to hit on 2+ giving your average tank 9 strength 9 attacks with -2 AP and D3 damage.

I'm playing in an RTT tomorrow with this list and most likely what I'll run at Siegeworld in 3 weeks.

2000 points, 4 CP (10/11 deployments)

SoB Outrider 1 CP
Celestine, +1 Geminae
Canoness, Relic Blade, 1x SB
Seraphim, 10x BP, 4x Inferno
3x Dominion, 4x Melta, 1x Inferno, 1x SB
3x Repressors, 1xHF, 2x SB

Raven Guard Patrol 0 CP
1x Captain Smash
1x Scouts
1x 6 Aggressors
2x Xiphons

Notes:
Anti-Tank: 15 melta out of Repressors, 4 inferno pistols on the seraphim, 8 lascanons. (also the 6 Xiphon missiles, but they're S6 so better at anti-elite than anti-tank)
Anti-Horde: 3 HF, 10 SB, and the aggressors with their potential 144 bolter shots of glory.
Assault: Celestine, SmashCap, and the Canoness can function as beatsticks. The aggressors can be punchy too if need be with their 13x S8 power fists.
I've been running the Xiphons for a bit and they are sneaky MVPs. A lot of people ignore them. I've also gotten pretty decent at sniping characters with them. You just fly over the top and park the Xiphon 1.1" away and then open up with Lascannons or their missiles.
It's a tight list with a low body count. I've ran it before with 2x Dominions and 3x BSS with SB in a battalion for more CP, but then it lacks the melta punch I feel i'm going to need.
The aggressors are a point sink, but I've only gotten 4 games in with them, so I'm not sure if they're worth it yet.I don't even have them fully painted. They'll be finished tonight, though!
If I get roflstomped at Siegeworld, then most likely I'll bite the bullet and buy an IK Castellan to replace the 2 Xiphons for LVO.

As the adage goes: If you can't beat them, they are obviously heretics and you need more cleansing fire. (or join them)

 deviantduck wrote:
Raven Guard Patrol 0 CP
1x Captain Smash

Rare to see a non-BA captain described as such without all of the 'roiding-up' stratagems, etc.

A.T. wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Raven Guard Patrol 0 CP
1x Captain Smash

Rare to see a non-BA captain described as such without all of the 'roiding-up' stratagems, etc.

Eh.. any captain with a jump pack, shield, and hammer is a smash cap to me.

 deviantduck wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Raven Guard Patrol 0 CP
1x Captain Smash

Rare to see a non-BA captain described as such without all of the 'roiding-up' stratagems, etc.

Eh.. any captain with a jump pack, shield, and hammer is a smash cap to me.

BA Red Thirts is really strong, when you can wound vehicles/Knights on a 2+ thats insane, +d3 attacks for 1CP, you can actually 1 round a Knight.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Raven Guard Patrol 0 CP
1x Captain Smash

Rare to see a non-BA captain described as such without all of the 'roiding-up' stratagems, etc.

Eh.. any captain with a jump pack, shield, and hammer is a smash cap to me.

BA Red Thirts is really strong, when you can wound vehicles/Knights on a 2+ thats insane, +d3 attacks for 1CP, you can actually 1 round a Knight.

True, but I don't have everyone else's obligatory IG CP battery to fuel it. Also, I'd rather have the RG aggressors to plop down anywhere on the battlefield than more of an investment in the captain. In this case, he's the tax on the aggressors/xiphons and the list isn't built around him.

I ran RG aggressors for a bit before swapping to Shield Captains. RG used to mesh really well with Sisters pre rule of 3. Post rule of 3 I find that it's hard to want to commit so much to an alpha strike/get everything to the center of the board right away technique as 3 repressors are way worse than 4-5.

Rynner wrote:
I ran RG aggressors for a bit before swapping to Shield Captains. RG used to mesh really well with Sisters pre rule of 3. Post rule of 3 I find that it's hard to want to commit so much to an alpha strike/get everything to the center of the board right away technique as 3 repressors are way worse than 4-5.

I like Shield captains a lot for my SoB, they seem to work well with them.

Yeah I ran Shield Captains for awhile. I mostly like them but it's hard to turn down CP farm to power up a couple of BA captains that run behind your repressors.

 deviantduck wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.

How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?

Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.

So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...

Exactly the opposite of fun. But oh great and wise GW hath decreed that only cheap infantry and OP stuff expensive enough to not be affected by the rule of 3 be allowed. After all, everyone knows how much more fun and balanced the game is when you play the same exact Guard+knights, Eldar+Ynnari, Cultist+w/e lists over and over and over again instead of *GASP* FOUR UNITS OF DOMINIONS!!!!!?!?!?!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bogalubov wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against Dominus class Knights yet? GenCorn was 25% IK. We have Siegeworld in STL coming up in a few weeks and I'm willing to bet it's going to be over 50% IK. Out of my group of 7 people, 5 are taking IK as primary.

How has everyone been faring in the new IK meta?

Pre rule of 3 I would have said knight were no big deal. Now, because of GWs incompetent rules writing coming AND going, I'd say just spam out infantry and try to win on objectives.

So the opposite of fun? I like how 15 meltas will do roughly ~10 damage. We're really outgunned at the moment.Then again, everyone else without a knight is too...

If you can't beat them...get a knight yourself?

This is kinda the Sisters of Battle thread...so...at least trying to come up with a sisters related solution seems fairly prudent.

Sisters are tough spot in that kind of match up. Meltas a short ramged and likely to be blasted away before getting into range with the exception of seraphim and dominions. Thats all we have range wise but you'll be wanting luck needing 4s to do anything. Exorcist is only other ranged option but last thing you need is a 135pt handicap.
Spam heavy bolter rets with heavy bolter immos? Whats that? Around 54 shots a turn...more with AoF? Mix in cannonesses for reroll 1s. Got yourself a nice static boring gunline.

Otherwise youre looking at bypassing knight invos with combat. Only option there is repentia but that is a huge points sink to make just a unit effective. They might get some good licks in the first round of combat but theyre going to immediately die to the retaliatory stomp attacks.

Hopefully the new dex next year *fingers crossed* will give us some things to answer this. (S9 or rerolling failed wound meltas because gw wants to sell our models).

....or heavily convert a knight to look sororitas if youre not patient enough for the new release.

ERJAK wrote:


This is kinda the Sisters of Battle thread...so...at least trying to come up with a sisters related solution seems fairly prudent.

The problem is you asking for a mono faction with the best soup in game to go against the best soup list. If it was pure Knights list, then just focus done the shooting ones and play the objectives. We "can" fully counter them with list tailoring, but a tac list is going to be hard as we dont really have MW's, strong fast Melee units (other than 1 HQ) or anytype of DSing at all, sob just dont have many of the tools other armies have. So we really should ally or just outplay the knights player.

If melta guns were better or cheaper that would be different, given them now, your looking at something like 4 damage per 4 melta guns. Sadly, a unit of HB rets only does 1-2 wounds, and a Exorcist is 2D total.

SO if you manage to get 3 units of Melta Doms in range (very hard to do) you can have 600pts deal 12 wounds....... Man i wish melta was better. IMO Melta needs to better, always 2D6 take highest vs Vehicles is a must.

I played in an RTT Saturday, with the overly elite list posted above, and boy did I get my pushed in.

My first game was against the current perfect soup list. IG + Castellan IK + 2x BA Cap'n. Lost the roll to go first, then proceeded to pull off models. The first two shots of the game were from the knight. Volcano canon. Xiphon #1 dead. Second shot was from the plasma canon. Xiphon #2 dead. 480 points gone, strong start. He had his 3 BA scouts setup in a line across the mid board, so I only got to vanguard move up 3". He actually ran at me with all of his IG and BA. I barely got a unit out of my deployment zone. Oddly enough, I didn't get tabled until top of 4 because Celestine is stubborn. He was a good guy and we made a fun game of it, but it was over before it started.

Game two was against an ultramarines guy I played last year at Siegeworld STL. We ended up tying last year based on a weird turn 6. I lost the second +1 roll off in a row, but seized on him. I had a pretty good first turn against his SM bubble and had board control and the killing advantage. He was on the ropes and I was setup perfectly to kill everything he had left (except Guilliman). My dice abandoned me. I fired 11 melta shots. 6 of 11 missed. The five that hit failed to wound. It was absolutely stunning. In return, he wiped out everything I had in that corner and I was left with a canoness opposite field sitting on a point.

Game three was against some Admech and a Castellan. I tabled him top of 3. Everything went text book.

So... I'm at a complete loss on how to make a competitive, yet fun, SoB + Soup list.

This is a SoB tactics thread, but I feel mono sisters is quite the handicap. We've been lagging behind since the rule of 3 gutted a lot of our options.
What are our best soup allies?

IG?
IK?
BA?
Custodes?

I've been having success locally with a Sororitas foot brigade backed up by 2x Dominions in Immolators.

That said, even at tournaments my local meta is fairly casual (DA plasma spam with IG allies, Emperor's Children mono, Guard + custodes, and then Guard + Knights is about the hardest list with no custodes).

 deviantduck wrote:


So... I'm at a complete loss on how to make a competitive, yet fun, SoB + Soup list.

This is a SoB tactics thread, but I feel mono sisters is quite the handicap. We've been lagging behind since the rule of 3 gutted a lot of our options.
What are our best soup allies?

IG?
IK?
BA?
Custodes?

I've found that IG/BA/Custodes work well depending on what you want to do. I took Sisters/Custodes/BA to the Louisville Slugga/ATC and did fairly well at both events. I've been playing around with Sisters + IG + BA. I like CP farm but I've never liked having to defend a backfield.

Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.

Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.

Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.

That's exactly what I did Saturday. I issued him a challenge to table me top of 2, and he failed. I declared the moral victory as I reported my 17-36 loss.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.

Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.

Yes but we do have some great units. Celestine (Well she isn't great in ITC though), Seraphim, and Repressors are currently great.

I have been building my lists around 3-4 units and taking allies to fill the gaps as I've seen fit.

Rynner wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.

Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.

Yes but we do have some great units. Celestine (Well she isn't great in ITC though), Seraphim, and Repressors are currently great.

I have been building my lists around 3-4 units and taking allies to fill the gaps as I've seen fit.

I wont play ITC unless i go to a tournament that rules it, our local (thank god) doesnt use it nor believe in ITC, we all agree its not balanced and just makes a different meta, why play house rules if they arent anymore balanced?

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Rynner wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.

Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.

Yes but we do have some great units. Celestine (Well she isn't great in ITC though), Seraphim, and Repressors are currently great.

I have been building my lists around 3-4 units and taking allies to fill the gaps as I've seen fit.

I wont play ITC unless i go to a tournament that rules it, our local (thank god) doesnt use it nor believe in ITC, we all agree its not balanced and just makes a different meta, why play house rules if they arent anymore balanced?

This is a little off topic but I don't disagree with you about ITC missions not being balanced. They are however the most common missions in the US. I know for the GT I'm running in early September people voted to us ITC missions as they know them and their pitfalls rather than go with something custom.

Celestine bleeds points in ITC missions but I still find myself taking her (although mostly w/o her friends) as her buffs are really good. Hopefully the updated missions make her less of an achilles heel.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Dont forget, we are still an INDEX army, trying to compete with 3 top codex armies.

Sometimes we just need to look at a certain list and say "GG, i have a very small chance to win" and that should be ok, for 2 reason, 1) mono lists are not strong, its 8th thats how it is, and 2) we are index, we will get how codex hopefully sooner in 2019 than later.

How many months since the Sisters render? Later in 19 is starting to look like a best case scenario.

I have rolled since the Ro3 with double battalions each sporting three BSS doubled up in three Repressors with three Dom squads riding single in Repressors with Seraphim for AT, Rets + Imag/Canoness for backfield and a couple Dialogus to fend off deepstrikes on my flanks and try to spark a martyrdom for Celestine. ITC is pants on head kind of stupid for her, but I don't bother with it.

SoB are gimped for sure, Ro3 ensured that. I flirted with SoB and Knights while painting mine up, really don't like mixing them. I say give up on Vanguard unless your opponent is going second, didn't sieze and didn't infiltrate or screen you away from a worthwhile suicide target. Otherwise, its a trap. Focus fire them off objectives and play the scenario. Pray the Emperor Protects, start lighting fires because SOUP blows.