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Ive only fielded them in 2 games due to being hesitant to field them from previous edition problems.

One game they died first turn before they even got a chance to move (only have 2 pengines).

Another game, they took out a repulsor, the aggressors inside it and another squad of aggressors before finally going down to that same squad due to nearby lieutenants stupid you can hit again before dying cuz my flag is flappy derp.

Theyre just too slow imo. Good for counter deepstrike assault. Cant keep up with the front line.

I think they are way too fragile for their points. They hit hard if they can get there but that usually takes 1-2 turns. They only have a 4+ and no built in invulnerable save which means most anti tank weapons are cutting right through them.

I ran them at the start of the edition and found that they just didn't get it done most of time.

As everyone else has said they are good if get there (just getting there is the problem). You have to run something that's more of a threat to give them a chance to get in, otherwise are blowin away like paper. Second thing against them is the models are a pain in the a**. You have to pin all the joints and then it is still fragile. The models look ok but is on my top hate model to put together (or more pertinent, keep together).

I have 8 of them. 5 built and painted, 2 unbuilt, and 1 a WP. Each one was a nightmare to build and painted. I would wait for plastic versions of them unless for some reason you really want to use then right now.

Rynner wrote:
I have 8 of them. 5 built and painted, 2 unbuilt, and 1 a WP. Each one was a nightmare to build and painted. I would wait for plastic versions of them unless for some reason you really want to use then right now.

Ye I have 6 but I will never buy anymore or do any other again, like ever. Unless is released in plastic. Even if upgraded them to be more survivable but had to use that model. Pass, I could use something else.

EDIT: I did sell a lot of my old Sob, so I have put together more (the signature is my current, I had way more).

Yeah, absolutely brutal if they reach a target... But, too slow to get anywhere and too expensive to be disposable.

And the models are the worst to put together.

From the warhammer community page:







I am happy with the Bloody Rose rules as they are my convent of choice. Let's hope that Celestians can be loaded properly for close combat

I am looking forward to other convent rules. Once new models are out, I will absolutely buy them and just build a new convent to ally with my Bloody Roses

OotBR is nice and makes me look forward to having other orders as well.

The Stratagem would be great if it worked on Inferno and Hand Flamers, but with just hand flamers? Meh.

Agreed, little weak for a 1CP strat that affects pistol D3 S3 AP0 weapon.

Now, if we get on that buffs flamers.... righteous fire, and if ALL Seraphims could take hand flamers over bolt pistols.

Really looking forward to this CA.

Come one Order of the Argent Shroud

Came here to say exactly that.

The OotBR chapter tactic is novel and fun, but I’m hoping there’ll be something decent on offer too.

That seraphim stratagem is just a joke though. I play Seraphim all the time. They didn’t necessarily need any love, but to give them that strat is almost more of a slap in the face than getting nothing.

You’ll drop turn two at the earliest, use the strat to let the two girls shoot their hand flamers (and a bunch of bolt pistols...) and then they’ll be out of range in the shooting phase anyway so the last sentence is moot.

Maybe if we kick up enough fuss about it they’ll give us something better for the codex (since they are allegedly listening to player feedback on this one). Really anything for seraphim would be better than that. A redeploy or faster move. A reroll hits/wounds against certain units strat. Or even if they’re trying to diversify things and encourage flamers and bolt pistols, add +1 to strength to the turn, or make them 12” range for the full turn not just the phase, so they can at least shoot them again in the shooting phase.

Goof to see convictions confirmed. OoBR seems like a bit of a stinker unless they give us a unit you actually want to get in to close combat. Getting the chance to hit like a SM a few times doesn't make much of a Bolter girl who still has T3. I'll wait and see, but unless something else changes I'll keep my Sisters out of close combat as much as possible.

Hand Flamer Strat buff.... Even if they were free I wouldn't take them.

I should of said I thought Bloody Rose would get a strength boost fot melee...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm... I actually like the stratagem. You want more bolt pistols than hand flamers though.

I think the conviction is interesting on Seraphim because they generally wind up in hand to hand but that Stratagem is a joke. Every single time I've deep struck my Seraphim it's been the wrong play. They are far better starting off on the board and moving 24" a turn.

We will have to see what the full rules are before passing judgement as some units may change, but has it stands I quite like the Bloody Roses.

The Eviscerator Canoness just got that much more deadly. 5 attacks at str 7. She will be able to wound most vehicles on 4s now.

A squad of repentias, while still very fragile, is going to dish upwards of 30 attacks at str 7 on the charge now. Also made them much better at dealing with vehicles.

Your sister squads should still not be charging (unless absolutely necessary), but getting charged now means you're going to be that much more dangerous on the counter punch. Basic sisters get 2 attacks and your superior, if armed with a chainsword, gets 4 attacks.



Given how close range the sister army is, and subsequently how often they can get charged, I think its a decent offensive and defensive bonus.

The Bloody Rose special rule is pretty interesting. Sister really need some counter punch ability in close combat. They are far too vulnerable to it to my liking.

Voldrak wrote:
We will have to see what the full rules are before passing judgement as some units may change, but has it stands I quite like the Bloody Roses.

The Eviscerator Canoness just got that much more deadly. 5 attacks at str 7. She will be able to wound most vehicles on 4s now.

A squad of repentias, while still very fragile, is going to dish upwards of 30 attacks at str 7 on the charge now. Also made them much better at dealing with vehicles.

Your sister squads should still not be charging (unless absolutely necessary), but getting charged now means you're going to be that much more dangerous on the counter punch. Basic sisters get 2 attacks and your superior, if armed with a chainsword, gets 4 attacks.



Given how close range the sister army is, and subsequently how often they can get charged, I think its a decent offensive and defensive bonus.

Arent multipliers done after bonuses? So theyd be S8? I thought i saw a FAQ on this somewhere...

I didn't notice the increase to attacks as well as strength. That makes it a bit more gutsy. Celestians would benefit nicely from this. Mix in a priest assuming he no different to the one in guard dex. 4 attacks. Very respectable.
Dammit, now i know how everyone else felt with their dex previews. Cruel strip tease. Show us all the goods GW!

Lammia wrote:
Hmm... I actually like the stratagem. You want more bolt pistols than hand flamers though.

So you’d run the stratagem just to shoot your bolt pistols twice? Wait till turn two to deepstrike, drop in 9” away knowing you’re gonna get murdered next round, just so you can fire twice with a bunch of bolt pistols?? Not worth the points or the CP, surely.

superwill wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Hmm... I actually like the stratagem. You want more bolt pistols than hand flamers though.

So you’d run the stratagem just to shoot your bolt pistols twice? Wait till turn two to deepstrike, drop in 9” away knowing you’re gonna get murdered next round, just so you can fire twice with a bunch of bolt pistols?? Not worth the points or the CP, surely.

Depends on what I'm shooting at and what the rest of the board is like. Shooting twice in a single turn is always going to be useful, even if Seraphim aren't the best use of the ability to do so.

Yeah but it cost a cp to do it and you have to deep strike them. I dont think either of those things are very optional.

However depending on what happens with acts of faith it might be the only real way to shoot them twice.

Never mind Seraphim as we know them should be taking inferno pistols. I agree DS is a death sentence for them. Unless hand flamers get a huge buff, the strat is an auto pass for me.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:

Voldrak wrote:
We will have to see what the full rules are before passing judgement as some units may change, but has it stands I quite like the Bloody Roses.

The Eviscerator Canoness just got that much more deadly. 5 attacks at str 7. She will be able to wound most vehicles on 4s now.

A squad of repentias, while still very fragile, is going to dish upwards of 30 attacks at str 7 on the charge now. Also made them much better at dealing with vehicles.

Your sister squads should still not be charging (unless absolutely necessary), but getting charged now means you're going to be that much more dangerous on the counter punch. Basic sisters get 2 attacks and your superior, if armed with a chainsword, gets 4 attacks.



Given how close range the sister army is, and subsequently how often they can get charged, I think its a decent offensive and defensive bonus.

Arent multipliers done after bonuses? So theyd be S8? I thought i saw a FAQ on this somewhere...

I didn't notice the increase to attacks as well as strength. That makes it a bit more gutsy. Celestians would benefit nicely from this. Mix in a priest assuming he no different to the one in guard dex. 4 attacks. Very respectable.
Dammit, now i know how everyone else felt with their dex previews. Cruel strip tease. Show us all the goods GW!

There we go, i found it. Its in the Designers Commentary on the GW website. Too many words for me to bother typing out manually but the basic gist is the characteristic stat is sorted out then weapon bonus applied.
Its actually the very first thing covered in it.

So all repentia and cannoness with their respective eviscerators using the Bloody Rose Conviction are stat strength 3 +1 from conviction and then x2 from the weapon.
Bloody Rose Repentia and Cannoness correctly S8. Tasty!

Loving the Order concepts thus far, as OotBR addresses the biggest problem with Sisters' melee elements: base strength 3.

Doesn't make Repentia viable, because they're still too expensive and too squishy with their required support characters and transport to ever achieve cost-efficiency. In order for Repentia to get off the couch, they're going to need either a stratagem that slingshots them, a significant points reduction, or to get increased defensive options.

It would, however, make Celestine and absolute f-ing monster: Strength 8, 7 attacks, with two girls that are strength 4, 4 attacks each on power swords. If Sisters get an Immediately Fight Again strat, she will be an auto-include in every Imperium list again.

It also makes it possible for Celestine to escape being double-deleted by a gauntlet grab.

Combine that with the effectiveness increase for Seraphim (making melee options a reasonable alternative to the bolt pistol, and having her be the one who throws the grenade in shooting phases), and the "core" of most allied-in Sisters lists (Celestine and three sets of Seraphim) gets a lot more competitive.


EDIT: we can ignore the stratagem, as you will never deepstrike Seraphim because inferno pistols don't have enough range to make it worthwhile. Even if you kitted out the squad in complete bolter pistols, it's still not worth deepstriking them*. If it could be used without the requirement of coming in from deepstrike, it'd be bananas though.

However, if we're being given the option to kit out Seraphim with power weapons and chainswords, or to give pairs of plasma pistols to the special weapon girls, then this stratagem gains a TON of traction.

EDIT2: I stopped and did the math. If you took 10 seraphim with bolt pistols and gave the superior a plasma pistol, it would actually be cost-effective enough to perform this manuever, as you'd get 38 bolter shots and 2 plasma shots out of a 115 point unit. Probably not worth taking over melta Seraphim, but definitely worth taking in a Seraphim spam list if rule of 3 wasn't a thing.

Celestine doesn't have an Order right now and if she gains one in the codex it'll certainly be Our Martyred Lady as per the fluff.

Lanlaorn wrote:
Celestine doesn't have an Order right now and if she gains one in the codex it'll certainly be Our Martyred Lady as per the fluff.

Celestine can't be Order-locked, because the entire faction is currently dependent on her being present.

Introducing a Build-a-Saint (0-1) clone with her mechanics for other Orders would cause every SoB list to be an OML-Celestine detachment and a Build-a-Saint detachment.

Celestine not having the Order keyword would mean that she would disrupt Orders, unless she was specifically exclaimed like the entire Ministorum keyword will have to be.

Basically, messing with Celestine would mean rebuilding the faction from the ground up, and I just don't see a Chapter Approved having enough real estate to dedicate to that kind of an undertaking.

There are a handful of changes I'd expect to see in the beta rules:

All Sisters units which currently lack Order keyword getting it.
Exorcist getting either 3d3 shots with flat 3 damage; or 4d3 shots with d3 damage.
Penitent Engines getting Sororitas, Order, Shield of Faith and Acts of Faith keywords, a 3+ save, and Buzzblades getting reduced to 30 points.
Flamers across the board coming down in points (Hand Flamers free, Flamers 4 points, Heavy Flamers 11 or 12 points).
Eviscerators dropping to 9 points.
Multi-meltas dropping to 20 points.
Repentia dropping to 14 points per model, and getting Angelic Visage.
Mistress giving Repentia a 5+++ FnP bubble.
Adding a data sheet for Canoness Veridian.
Adding a data sheet for the boxing day fig as a named HQ.

Since most of those are point changes, I could see the beta codex data sheets for the changed units being six pages, then four pages for stratagems and two pages for warlord traits. Two pages for the Orders, and a couple pages for pictures and fluff, wrap the whole thing up in less than 20 pages.

Listen, I don't know what you're expecting, but just like the vast majority of Tau special characters, including the most powerful ones, are Tau sept and the majority of Space Marine special characters, including the most powerful ones, are Ultramarines, it wouldn't exactly be shocking if the best and only named Sisters character was Our Martyred Lady.

Space Marines and Ad Mech are a lot weaker without being UM for Guilliman or Mars for Cawl, why do you imagine Sisters would be different with regards to Celestine?

Anyway there's really nothing to be gained by wishlisting in the tactica thread.

I think St Celestine could have either the specific Convicition or none

Also these look good

Lanlaorn wrote:
Listen, I don't know what you're expecting, but just like the vast majority of Tau special characters, including the most powerful ones, are Tau sept and the majority of Space Marine special characters, including the most powerful ones, are Ultramarines, it wouldn't exactly be shocking if the best and only named Sisters character was Our Martyred Lady.

Okay, Space Marines: they're split into multiple codexes, and those chapters were strictly worse than Ultramarines until their codexes released. The codexes added buffs to specific units which made them strictly superior versions of those units which are available to the other chapters (Smashcaps, DA Libs, Runepriests, etc.). This is not an option for Sisters of Battle, because all Orders will be using the same base units and there are no psychic powers, so the only mechanical change between the different Orders will be the Order trait itself and a single stratagem. Ergo, it will be similar to Ad Mech.

Lanlaorn wrote:
Space Marines and Ad Mech are a lot weaker without being UM for Guilliman or Mars for Cawl, why do you imagine Sisters would be different with regards to Celestine?

Most competitive Ad Mech run Stygies, because the -1 to hit is mechanically superior to Cawl's additional Canticles.

Sisters faces a unique problem in that Celestine is the source of several things which are exclusive to her model:
She is the only source of a Kustom Force Field equivalent.
She is half of the faction's reliable sources of the faction mechanic.
She is the only redeployable unit.
on top of being the faction's best unit.
And most importantly: she is the most recent and only readily available model for the faction at the time Chapter Approved will release.

So any Stygies-like Order mechanic that comes via not-OML would have to be ridiculously OP to be able to compete with both the OML Order trait (whatever it ends up being), Celestine's several unique force multiplier mechanics, and the opportunity cost of not taking the faction's best unit. And then you'd still be able to force multiply them with Celestine by taking her in another detachment, which would end up making them OP whenever she's present, and end up being nerfed until unplayable when she isn't (aka- "the Ynnari paradox" with Shining Spears).

I just don't see that happening within the limited real estate of a Chapter Approved add-on, that is designed to drive interest towards a future product line.

Or they could just say that even though she is from OML, she has the <order> keyword because she'll work with any of the orders.

Not very impressed by either of the reveals. The strat is bad, the order trait is worse. Basic Space Marines are garbage in melee, this turns Sisters into a T3 WS4+ space marine in melee. Maybe there are a couple niche units that could benefit from it but unless we see a radical change in stat lines it's not going to suddenly make sisters even a mediocre melee unit.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Celestine will not have an order and will be allowed to be included in any detachment and not deny order abilities, like aux units from codexes like DE and AM. That's assuming the fluff stays the same and she just appears in random battles to fight for the imperium.

It's also possible that "Celestine" just becomes "Living Saint" and could be in any order and you call her what you want.

She is half of the faction's reliable sources of the faction mechanic.

I'm going to give like 80% odds that faith goes away as a special mechanic and becomes a set of "Faith Stratagems". Various units, abilities, etc in sisters will generate "Faith CP" that can only be used on Faith Strats. There's some precedence for GW moving in this direction in Rogue Trader from Kill Team. If you take that RT woman as your Warlord in a 40k army you get 4 extra CP that can only be used on RT strats.

Edit: And personally I think that would be a very good way to go. It's still unique because you're powering them only through Sisters units and abilities and would enable a wide variety of faith powers instead of the couple generic ones. You could gain Faith CP for having certain models/units in your army, when units die, when characters kill stuff, when you kill a psyker, a die roll of X+ when you kill any chaos unit. There are tons of ways to give sisters a unique way of interacting with the proven and understood framework of Strats to create their faith mechanic. With a caveat that you can gain more than 1 faith per turn in matched play.

So basically, witchhunter faith mechanic.

Anyways, this sort of talk belongs in the speculation thread.