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 Amishprn86 wrote:

@Fafnir FoC are easy to get now, we can take the 6 FA one and another FoC if we need too.

While I'm aware of this part, since I feel Sisters are the type of army that's really going to want to get the most out of MSU, slot competition is something that might actually be possible, depending on the detachments you're using.

I have a friend that played the Vindicare Assassin for 3-4 games and we both agree it doesnt really do much, its very hit or miss.

It feels like you need at least two on the table in order to get their job done with how fast the game moves now, but at that investment, Assassins stop being such a good deal and other options look so much more appealing.

I'm probably alone here, but I still feel footslogging Sisters are much more viable than they have been in over a decade. Not sure I'd argue they're better than MSU sisters, but with battle sisters being fairly cheap and arguably more durable (with the AP system's revamp and the addition of hospitallers and dialogous) and the buff aura of the canoness, I feel they can accomplish more than they have been able to in a long time.

They are more viable, but I don't know that a wholly footslogging force is very good.

I'm using a mix of foot and mech and I think that will be in a good place.

 pretre wrote:
They are more viable, but I don't know that a wholly footslogging force is very good.

I'm using a mix of foot and mech and I think that will be in a good place.

Well yeah, not wholly footslogging. You still want dominions and seraphim for example, and crusaders or repentia in transports as a counter-charge unit perhaps (more leaning towards crusaders atm).

Played against Necrons this weekend.

I setup a gunline with my retributors flanked by my seraphims and Celestine. All my dominions moved to the center of table.

What he did was use the Deceiver to pop himself and two Nightscythes right behind me (he rolled a 2 for his units to redeploy). He had turn one so he then dropped two big units of lychguards right behind my lines and managed to assault me turn 1.

I managed to table him in the end, but it was luck and bad play on his part. Both of his Nightscythes had to move up at least 20 inches and that put them right behind my Dominions. I disembarked them and then took the 2 scythers down with the help of the immolators. That meant 400 ish points of his army automatically died since they were in some sort of tomb world reserve and no longer could arrive via the flyers.

I ended up kiting him for the rest of the game as I fed small units to his lychguards, deceiver and overlords in my backline. The immolators 12 inche range meant I could keep them far from each other, to prevent multi charges, and still shoot them.

Highlight was Celestine dying turn 2 to the Deceiver and Overlord charging her, failing her 2+ miraculous intervention and rolling a second 1 after using a command point.


I don't think there is a better tank between the Immolator or Repressor. They provide totally different styles of play where you're either very aggressive or very defensive. I will probably be playing two of each in my games, for my dominion squads, to make up my mind.

Oh and please don't make the mistake of thinking the Repressor is good in assault. It's better than the wet noodles that the Immolators and Rhinos are for sure, but it should only ever be in assault if you are going to survive the round of combat your opponent gets on it and you absolutely need to tie down the unit it charges of a turn. Having to fall back on the next turn means his heavy flamer(s) go to waste and if there was a unit inside it might end up doing nothing for a turn. Disembarking, when there are enemy models around your tank, leaves little room for the tank to fallback after.

What units would work best do you think in Immolators and Repressors?

Between
BBS: SB and/or 2 Meltas or 2 Flamers
Dom's: Melta and/or SB
Ret: HFs and/or HB

BSS in immos.
Doms in repressors.
Rets walking or with repressors.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
What units would work best do you think in Immolators and Repressors?

Between
BBS: SB and/or 2 Meltas or 2 Flamers
Dom's: Melta and/or SB
Ret: HFs and/or HB

Remember, with combi weapons being a thing BSS can effectively take 3 specials for only 2 points more. (You don't have to fire the bolt gun part so you can avoid the -1 for firing both. Or if it's a flamer... fire away.)

Yeah, combiflamer there's no reason not to fire the boltgun part.

AH yeah, honestly forgot they can do that, i do have 5 combi models

A 5 melta domi squad in a repressor is probably the nastiest driveby in the game, don't get too close to hordes though, that's a lot of points to lose if you get wrapped up.

Rets with HF would be pretty beastly too but again, getting that close to infantry makes me nervous.

SB...you're probably better off just jumping them out of an immo.

ERJAK wrote:
A 5 melta domi squad in a repressor is probably the nastiest driveby in the game, don't get too close to hordes though, that's a lot of points to lose if you get wrapped up.

Rets with HF would be pretty beastly too but again, getting that close to infantry makes me nervous.

SB...you're probably better off just jumping them out of an immo.

I'm still not sold on melta this edition. It's barely better than a lascannon against heavy vehicles at 6" worse further out. Consider that for 64 points you can ally in a Scion command squad with 4 plasma guns and deep strike them anywhere. For the 200ish points you'd pay for 5 melta guns you could have 8 plasma guns along with an officer to give them rerolls. I mean those guys will die the turn after, but their firepower is so much more impressive :(

Depends on what you're fighting. If you're going after terminators or other elite infantry, sure, Plasma will get that job done just fine and with greater efficiency. But if someone drops a Flyrant or Trygon right outside your deployment zone, nothing is going to deal with it as efficiently or definitely as a melta fusilade. And no one does melta like Sisters do melta.

In slower moving editions, you could afford to plink away at big scary monsters over time. But with the rate that things move and are moved off of the table in 8th, the ability to put an immediate stop to such monsters is huge, especially since you're bound to have multiple knocking on your door at any given time.

Yep with Nids, tau and others that can Drop large wound models on your back door, you need to deal with it asap otherwise it will just run amuk around hurting you.

Yeah... so overcharged plasma puts more wounds on them than melta. Especially if you're bringing twice the number of guns for the points.

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah... so overcharged plasma puts more wounds on them than melta. Especially if you're bringing twice the number of guns for the points.

A plasmagun in rapid fire range does .92 wounds on average to a T4 3+ model melta gun does 1.94 without the roll 2d6. Also, are scion's Plasma guns really only 7-8 points?

Plasma's better at killing 1-2 wound infantry, Melta does way more to anything with 4 wounds or more. Melta gun also benefits more from Command Points.

ERJAK wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah... so overcharged plasma puts more wounds on them than melta. Especially if you're bringing twice the number of guns for the points.

A plasmagun in rapid fire range does .92 wounds on average to a T4 3+ model melta gun does 1.94 without the roll 2d6. Also, are scion's Plasma guns really only 7-8 points?

Plasma's better at killing 1-2 wound infantry, Melta does way more to anything with 4 wounds or more. Melta gun also benefits more from Command Points.

We're talking about big targets here. Overcharged they're both S8. The only difference is plasma allows 3+ things a 6+ (a difference that goes away if they have invuln saves) and then it does 2 damage vs. d6 (3.5), but once you go to 2 shots for every melta shot, that's 4 vs 3.5 or 5/6 * 4 vs 3.5 (given the tiny differences, I'm not sure how you're seeing such a big discrepancy). The 2d6, drop lowest only bumps average damage to 4.5.

And yes, guard only pay 7 points per plasma gun... and 12 for meltas. SM only pay 2 points for stormbolters to our 4, inquisition does too (but I think both pay the same for plasma/melta). Plasma is nuts if you overcharge it, but that does really require expendable models or rerolls as plasma just now kills the user with no save on a 1 (and really, really messes up some vehicles too).

Here's the crazy thing, if you roll up to a tank and shoot it with 4 melta guns, in the old days you had a decent chance of exploding it. Now, you get 4 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3.5 = 4.666. Even with the combi melta for a 5th shot, you shouldn't expect to more than halfway kill it. 5 shots, at 6" or less will do 10 wounds on average to a rhino (or other T7 3+) but anything heavier will probably survive unless you roll well and you can only reroll one die per phase.

I agree that there are proper cheaper options for imperials, but we're talking the SOB thread here. So what do we have that is cheaper? Also, we could start adding Combi-Plasma to our Dom squads.

 pretre wrote:
I agree that there are proper cheaper options for imperials, but we're talking the SOB thread here. So what do we have that is cheaper? Also, we could start adding Combi-Plasma to our Dom squads.

It's sad to say, but I'll have a hard time fielding Sisters as Troops now that I've seen how other Factions perform in that role. I do like that the BSS is most of the way to a Dom squad minus the Vanguard move now that combis fire every turn. That might earn them a spot on my roster. If I were to go anti-horde MSU gunline, then yes, the BSS F/HF/CF wall o' fire would be clutch. Other than that, my Troops slots will likely go to "Inquisitorial" plasma Scion spam.

I won't. Battle Sisters Squads became cheaper and, with the addition of a canoness and dialogous giving their buffs, are quite durable for their points. And you should seriously never doubt the power of packing boltguns over lasguns like you were some kind of space marine player. They're quite solid troops choices for killing 1-wound infantry (which IMO is all the more reason to go wtih meltaguns, since Sisters don't really have a problem killing 1-wound infantry anyway, and unlike plasmaguns, you don't need to risk overcharge on meltaguns to get the effect). Battle Sisters aren't the omgwtfbbq bets unti evar, but they're a solid choice now that they're cheaper and get more passive buffs from the characters in the army.

 Melissia wrote:
I won't. Battle Sisters Squads became cheaper and, with the addition of a canoness and dialogous giving their buffs, are quite durable for their points. And you should seriously never doubt the power of packing boltguns over lasguns like you were some kind of space marine player. They're quite solid troops choices for killing 1-wound infantry (which IMO is all the more reason to go wtih meltaguns, since Sisters don't really have a problem killing 1-wound infantry anyway, and unlike plasmaguns, you don't need to risk overcharge on meltaguns to get the effect). Battle Sisters aren't the omgwtfbbq bets unti evar, but they're a solid choice now that they're cheaper and get more passive buffs from the characters in the army.

Yeah, I definitely want to try to 15-strong footslogging squad, the 3x storm bolter squad, and the double BSS squads with F/HF/CF packed liked sardines into a single Rhino option. Boltguns are awesome this edition, especially vs. 1-wound infantry. I haven't tried boosting them with a Canoness, as she's been awesome standing in the back between HB Rets and an Exorcist. So yeah, don't write off the BSS, but they've got competition if you aren't a Sororitas purist... I was very glad to have some plasma guns rapid firing, re-rolling ones, dishing out overcharged 2-damage hits when I suddenly had two squads of T5 2-wound Ork warbikers on my flank.

 Hoitash wrote:
On the subject of Forgeworld: are Avenger Strike Fighters still a thing we can take? It's taking me forever to finish painting mine and I'm just curious if there's a point (I'll still finish it of course but figured I'd ask.)

It will be in the FW: Astra Militarum Index that drops Saturday.
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Imperial-Armour-Index-Astra-Militarum-2017

As Pretre said, it will most likely not have any valuable keywords for us other than <Imperial>. We don't have any of its rules yet.

 MacPhail wrote:
now that combis fire every turn.

Holy crap, combis fire every turn? How did I miss that?

Yeah they aren't limited to one use any more. They're basically another special weapon for the squad, that can also fire a boltgun if the user takes a -1 to-hit modifier.

 pretre wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
now that combis fire every turn.

Holy crap, combis fire every turn? How did I miss that?

Not only every turn, but both weapons if you take a -1 to hit on them both. So combi flamers get to fire the flamer and the bolter at -1 every turn.

Yep. Combiweapons are a no-brainer upgrade for Sisters right now IMO. The debate isn't whether or not to have one, it's which one to take XD

Mavnas wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
A 5 melta domi squad in a repressor is probably the nastiest driveby in the game, don't get too close to hordes though, that's a lot of points to lose if you get wrapped up.

Rets with HF would be pretty beastly too but again, getting that close to infantry makes me nervous.

SB...you're probably better off just jumping them out of an immo.

I'm still not sold on melta this edition. It's barely better than a lascannon against heavy vehicles at 6" worse further out. Consider that for 64 points you can ally in a Scion command squad with 4 plasma guns and deep strike them anywhere. For the 200ish points you'd pay for 5 melta guns you could have 8 plasma guns along with an officer to give them rerolls. I mean those guys will die the turn after, but their firepower is so much more impressive :(

Me neither. But I'm really not sold on shooting tanks with bolters and flamers, after my first few games, so I think I'm still going to have to bring a ton of Meltaguns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, on Combi-Plas, keep in mind die roll modifiers occur before the determination of whether or not you blow up. Therefore, if you fire it and the boltgun and you roll a 2, you blow up. Be careful.

Also anything that gives you a -1 to hit, 2s become 1s after the reroll.

Totally agreed on the no-brainer combi-weapon upgrade. Props to the OG combi-flamer battle sister.

I had a chance to play in a 12 man RTT this Sunday. I decided to take my sisters.

I would up going 2-1, only losing because I didn’t realize I couldn’t vanguard move my Immolaters if anyone without that rule was in that tank and that you couldn’t drop the relic once you had it.

Anyway my list was:

Battalion:
Celestine + 2 Gemni
1x Canoness, Flamer, Power Maul
3x 5 Women BSS, Heavy Flamer, Melta, Combi Melta, Immolaters w/flamers
2x Imgafiers
1x 5 Woman Ret Squad with 4x Heavy Bolters, Immolater w/flamers

Spearhead:
1x Cannoness, Combi Melta, Power Maul
1x 5 Woman Dom Squad, 4x Melta, 1x Combi Melta, Repressor
1x 5 Woman Dom Squad, 4x Melta, 1x Combi Melta, Immolater w/flammers
1x 5 Woman Dom Squad, 4x Flamers, 1x Combi Flamer, Immolater w/flammers
1x 5 Woman Seraphim Squad w/2x hand flamers

The Immolaters performed amazingly. 2d6 shots with a minimum 25" threat range is amazing. They can kill anything and with St. Celestine near by to give them a 5++ they are quite durable.

The BSS squads almost never got out unless they had to or where shot out. They just weren’t needed. The tanks and Celestine did most of the damage.

Seraphim are great as a counter assault or pile in unit. Being able to shoot 4d6 hand flamers in combat can really help to break critical units out of combat so they don’t have to fall back and can still fire.

Celestine is awesome as always. She never gave up warlord.

The Retibutors were garbage. They almost never did anything worth while. They were too static for the list and almost always died to reserves or a stiff breeze.

Acts of faith are great but kind of annoying to play because you have to start out side your right and because you basically have a turn before a turn.