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I dunno, they probably still have a place. They're hard to shift and look scary. At most you'll probably see one or two used as fire support for people who don't own or don't want to bring a knight.
- Acts of Faith do not seem to occur during a phase, as defined by the phases listed in the Core Rules. As such, in Matched Play, is there any restriction on using the same stratagem (such as the Command Reroll) multiple times whilst testing for Act of Faiths and while resolving their effects?
- Should Seraphim's 'Angelic Visage' ability read "you *CAN* reroll failed Shield of Faith invulnerable saves for this unit"? Presently if they are affected by Celestine's Beacon of Faith ability they are forced to reroll rolls of 5 when making a Shield of Faith Invulnerable save, as modifiers are applied after rerolls. Adding the word 'can' would allow the player to choose not to reroll the 5s and then make the save.
- The last wargear option on the Canoness is unclear as to whether she can trade both weapons for Pistols/Ranged Weapons or just one. Whilst of course two combi-weapons would be silly, a Canoness with two plasma pistols was previously possible and a very popular (and awesome!) conversion.
- If Celestine has died a second time (after being revived the first time using her Miraculous Intervention ability) and there are still Geminae Superia alive, can she be further revived by using a 'Spirit of the Martyr' Act of Faith or the Hospitaller's 'Healer' ability? (On a side note, if an additional ability was added to her datasheet to allow for wounds to always be allocated to the Geminae first, even if Celestine is wounded and they are not, this would mitigate this possibility for a cheeky further revival).
FORGEWORLD
Some small quick questions for the forgeworld team for 'Imperial Armour Index: Forces of the Adeptus Astartes'.
- If the Sororitas Repressor uses its smoke launchers ability, can the embarked unit still shoot using the Firing Ports ability?
- Is the wargear option for an additional Heavy Flamer or Storm Bolter intended to replace any of Repressor's standard weapons?
- If the Repressor is within 1" of an enemy unit, can the embarked unit still fire during the shooting phase using the Firing Ports ability? If so, what restrictions (if any) are in place for this shooting attack?
- As the Repressor can only carry <ORDER> infantry, it may not carry the Hospitaller and Dialogus. Was this intended? Why not restrict it to <ADEPTA SORORITAS> infantry instead?
NOW ANSWERED
- Units that DO NOT possess the 'Acts of Faith' ability but still have the <ORDER> or <ADEPTA SORORITAS> keywords - can they perform an Act of Faith as a result of the Imagifier's 'Simulacrum Imperialis' ability or Celestine's 'Saintly Blessings' ability? The wording of these abilities does not make it clear if the target unit also requires the Acts of Faith ability to be able to perform the Act of Faith.
*****Above abilities clarified in Errata to only work on <KEYWORD> units that have the Acts of Faith Ability.
- The Retributor Superior has a leadership characteristic of 7, whereas every other unit's Superiors have a leadership of at least 8. Is this a typo?
*****Corrected to Ld 8 in Eratta
- Celestine seems to be missing the unique model restriction.
*****Errata: You may only take one of this unit in your army
- The Seraphim Hand Flamer has D6 hits instead of D3 as seen on a weapon with the same name in Index Imperium 1. Please do not change this, but to avoid confusion could these weapons be renamed to a 'Sororitas Hand Flamer'?
*****Nerfed to Pistol D3 in Errata. RIP
- The Adeptus Ministorum Storm Bolter costs are listed at 4pts - this is inconsistent with every other imperial army receiving them for only 2pts (including Sisters of Silence and the Sororitas Repressor). Is this a mistake?
*****Corrected to 2pts per model in Errata
- Similary, it is not currently possible for a Superior in any unit to take a Boltgun and a Power Weapon, which a lot of the available models actually have on them.
******Superiors may now take a weapon from the melee list, fixing this issue
- If the Penitent Engine's 'Desperate for Redemption' ability successfully activates, can your opponent activate the 'Counter Offensive' stratagem to attack with one of their own units before the second lot of attacks resolves?
*****Clarified in Rulebook FAQ - units with abilities to fight twice, treat each round of fighting as a separate activation - so opponent may use Counter Offensive stratagem.
- In the Adeptus Ministorum ranged weapons summary, the Twin Multi-Melta is missing its ability as seen on the Immolator datasheet.
*****Ability added in Errata
Added the relevant answers from the NEW FAQ, and reorganised the remaining unanswered questions to the top. Of note:
- If the Penitent Engine's 'Desperate for Redemption' ability successfully activates, can your opponent activate the 'Counter Offensive' stratagem to attack with one of their own units before the second lot of attacks resolves?
*****Clarified in Rulebook FAQ (penultimate question)- units with abilities to fight twice, treat each round of fighting as a separate activation - so opponent may use Counter Offensive stratagem.
- With Superiors now being able to take a melee weapon, you can now always add a free chainsword essentially giving them all +1A. That's pretty awesome! You could also do the following loadouts:
- Bolter and Power Weapon (as per models)
- Bolt Pistol, Chainsword (bolter swap), Chainsword (take melee weapon). So if you drop her bolter, for free you can boost her to 4 attacks. 5 for Celestian Superior!
- Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Power Weapon
Melissia wrote: Yeah, I'm seeing more and more reason to just have seraphim have two bolt pistols and spend your points on something else.
Yeah. I don't want to repaint mine :( I didn't really want the HF before, but now they're just bad and for some reason still cost points. Granted within 6 inches a pair of them is roughly equivalent to a Stormbolter, that you pay 6x for?
Edit: oops, our Stormbolters got fixed to 2 pts each. This makes the HF basically worth like 1 pt for a pair in comparison.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 22:08:08
Within 6 inches and assuming no Canoness support, yes, they'll be about on par with a storm bolter. With the rerolled ones, the storm bolter just plain outclassed it. And with all that range, there's no reason to even really consider the hand flamers. They're basically on par with normal flamers now... Which aren't very good either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 20:56:40
It's a shame. Seraphim were growing on me, but mine have a very different color scheme from the rest of my sisters and I just can't see myself trying to recreate it to replace the Hand Flamers :( They might see use in friendly matches with people that let me break WYSWYG.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 22:08:32
One other big change from the FAQ that I noticed is the Dominion's Vanguard move - you now can't end it within 9" of an enemy model.
This is quite the nerf, especially during those deployment types where you only start 18" away. And if we assume we can advance during this move the nerf becomes even greater.
And not to mention that two units of Scouts (who deploy 9" from you and your deployment zone) could totally shut down this ability.
So, out Superiors can 'take' chainswords now without swapping a weapon. Chainswords are free.
Can I take 10 chainswords for my superior?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Off to figure out how to model 20 chainswords on one sister superior.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, I guess it says 'a' weapon.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/02 23:18:52
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jim300 wrote: Our storm bolter is just 2 points now. I'm pretty sure this is one of the most competitive wargear options for us.
I'm looking to acquire a few more as we speak. Not that dropping from 4 points to 2 makes a huge difference, but the fact that we can deploy so many so cheaply.
Well, at 4 points they were already a steal. The drop in points just turns them from an attractive option to one that essentially makes SB domions our standard troop.
Flamers are dead (although heavy flamers still barely have a role).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/03 01:11:51
Yeah, I did have a vision of a SB dom-based force with lots of drops that could shift around the entire portion of the deployment the opponent saw while he still had units to deploy after deployment (and basically deploy things as bait) because ultimately vanguard moves can also be used to pull back vulnerable troops too.
Fafnir wrote: Well, at 4 points they were already a steal. The drop in points just turns them from an attractive option to one that essentially makes SB domions our standard troop.
Flamers are dead (although heavy flamers still barely have a role).
Wait, what's up with flamers? I know hand farmers got the nerf bat... isn't the heavy flamer / flamer/ combi flamer still a nice option for the points?
Sadly, flamers are just all kinds of disappointing.
Between 30-18" (accounting for movement), a storm bolter will put out about 1.3 hits, about 1.5 with a Canoness giving you rerolls. From 18" and closer, you're getting about 2.7 hits, 3.1 with the Canoness.
A flamer, on the other hand, is only going to get about 3.5 hits from an average of 16.5" away. While costing more than four times as much.
The only edge flamers really get is for overwatch. And that's nice, but not worth 7 extra ppm. Simply put, flamers just do too little damage in a short period of time to justify taking over the more versatile and affordable storm bolter.
Fafnir wrote: Sadly, flamers are just all kinds of disappointing.
Between 30-18" (accounting for movement), a storm bolter will put out about 1.3 hits, about 1.5 with a Canoness giving you rerolls. From 18" and closer, you're getting about 2.7 hits, 3.1 with the Canoness.
A flamer, on the other hand, is only going to get about 3.5 hits from an average of 16.5" away. While costing more than four times as much.
The only edge flamers really get is for overwatch. And that's nice, but not worth 7 extra ppm. Simply put, flamers just do too little damage in a short period of time to justify taking over the more versatile and affordable storm bolter.
Okay, that's some compelling mathhammer. Storm bolters all around then.
What about heavy flamers? Do we like the mech'd up Rets with 4 heavy flamers now that the Exorcist has had some of the shine knocked off it by the FAQ? They've been great for me against Orks and even for peeling off an extra Berserker or two in overwatch, and I'm going to run a bunch of them against Nids tomorrow. Is S5 -1AP good enough for a TAC list, or are they overpriced?
Fafnir wrote: The only edge flamers really get is for overwatch. And that's nice, but not worth 7 extra ppm. Simply put, flamers just do too little damage in a short period of time to justify taking over the more versatile and affordable storm bolter.
Actually, now that I think about it: 2x Sisters with no special > Sister with flamer even though they're the same cost...
Still thinking I might bring one twin inferno pistol seraphim in a squad of five girls. Still cheap enough and just a bit of melta fun along for the ride.
Problem with storm bolter Doms is that I dont have enough of the models, flamers, melta, and bolters I have a ton of...
dracpanzer wrote: Still thinking I might bring one twin inferno pistol seraphim in a squad of five girls. Still cheap enough and just a bit of melta fun along for the ride.
Problem with storm bolter Doms is that I dont have enough of the models, flamers, melta, and bolters I have a ton of...
Actually, this might not be as terrible as I originally thought. In previous editions getting those pistols in range was a pain, but with the movement AoF, they're a lot more likely to actually make it, but 12 points per pistol is harsh.
dracpanzer wrote: Still thinking I might bring one twin inferno pistol seraphim in a squad of five girls. Still cheap enough and just a bit of melta fun along for the ride.
Problem with storm bolter Doms is that I dont have enough of the models, flamers, melta, and bolters I have a ton of...
I'm assuming you'd get to fire both Inferno pistols into somebody's face during the Shooting phase in a melee. Definitely helps the return on investment.
It might be worthwhile to take alongside Celestine, on order to help punch out big griblies. Though I'd be weary of that investment when you could just roast it in one go with a Dominion melta squad while Celestine goes off to do whatever of the other half million things she's capable of.
Something interesting I noticed. It says that characters only have immunity from being targeted if not the closest in the shooting phase....Seems to me this could let our shooting act of faith nail some characters that forget to block LOS to them from say a Heavy Bolter Retributor Squad?
Khadorstompy wrote: Something interesting I noticed. It says that characters only have immunity from being targeted if not the closest in the shooting phase....Seems to me this could let our shooting act of faith nail some characters that forget to block LOS to them from say a Heavy Bolter Retributor Squad?
I'd imagine the "...as if it were in the Shooting phase." part of the AoF would stop that.
So what? Hand flamers, doms vanguard move, imagifiers have all been nerfed. Meltaguns arent as good as they used to be. The unique thing about Exorcists (heavy d6 shots) is now standard for a lot of heavy weapons. Flamers are statistically worse than a storm bolter in any situation other than overwatch, for more than 4x the cost. But hey! Lucky us! We pay the same as everyone else for stormbolters now! Thats cool!
Arcos, DCAs, Crusaders used to be in one squad, now if i want to field them they all have to be seperate. So 3 squads of 2 to 3 models can all be targeted seperately. With a priest and a rhino thats 5 kill points.
Also my Inquisition army is down the toilet. Inquisitiors wargear options have been cut in half. (power armour, rad grenades, gas grenades, hellrifle, daemon sword, digital weapons, hvy weapon servitors, all gone) Acolytes were decent, S3 T3 3W 5+ models for 8pts, have a good range of special weapons and catch bullets for an Inquisitor. Now they're 1W with no reduction in points. Theres absolutely zero point in taking them over AM Vets now. If i want to make a decent Inquisition army, I may as well just run straight up imperial guard with a Inquisitor or two. Jokeros and Daemonhosts can't join Inquisitors in vehicles for some bloody reason. Theres no way to make a cool, fluffy Inquisition warband anymore!
Top that off with the fact that Sisters and Inquisition are pretty much all I've got!
Sorry guys, but the Jakman is salty. He's very salty.
Was looking at the pro/con of stormbolter doms vs melta doms. After buying the five girls you pay 10 points for the SB's vs 87 points for the melta/combi-melta. The difference almost pays the full cost of the Repressor to ride them around in....
Six squads of SB Doms in Repressors is 900 points, 462 points cheaper than the melta Doms. Almost enough points to take six squads of five Seraphim with one girl in each toting Inferno pistols for added bodies and some AT to jump behind the Repressors. Or just three more squads of SB Doms.
I seriously need to figure out a cheap and easy way to convert all my bolter girls into decent looking stormbolters Doms. Might just be the only way to save my wallet from this hell....
Fafnir wrote: It might be worthwhile to take alongside Celestine, on order to help punch out big griblies. Though I'd be weary of that investment when you could just roast it in one go with a Dominion melta squad while Celestine goes off to do whatever of the other half million things she's capable of.
The Seraphim are quite a lot cheaper than the dominions, aren't they? Basic Seraphim are only one point more than dominions, but inferno pistols cost quite a bit less than melta guns. And by putting the two pistols each on two sisters you get more ablative wounds, as well as 6 bolt pistol shots you can use. That's ignoring the price of the dominions' transport (because the transport is actually pretty good).
Basically as you say, they are decent with Celestine giving them a bonus move. I can see a case for just adding Celestine and a unit of Seraphim to a lot of imperial armies. They'd be extremely useful in missions like the relic - as would a unit of dominions (or anything else) that you could park on it before the game started.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/03 11:16:36
jim300 wrote: Our storm bolter is just 2 points now. I'm pretty sure this is one of the most competitive wargear options for us.
Has the faq been upddated again as I can't see this?
found it - good news
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/03 12:21:38
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
So from the looks of the last page, looks like bolter shock is gonna be important for Sisters once again.
I love me some bolter shock
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Twoshoes23 wrote: Im waiting to run my 4x heavy flamer retributors, supieror w/ combi weapon of choice, inferno pistol cannoness 3 arco flaggelents, priest repressor of pain.
Arcos and Priests can't ride in a Repressor currently because they lack the <Order> keyword.
Fafnir wrote: It might be worthwhile to take alongside Celestine, on order to help punch out big griblies. Though I'd be weary of that investment when you could just roast it in one go with a Dominion melta squad while Celestine goes off to do whatever of the other half million things she's capable of.
The Seraphim are quite a lot cheaper than the dominions, aren't they? Basic Seraphim are only one point more than dominions, but inferno pistols cost quite a bit less than melta guns. And by putting the two pistols each on two sisters you get more ablative wounds, as well as 6 bolt pistol shots you can use. That's ignoring the price of the dominions' transport (because the transport is actually pretty good).
Basically as you say, they are decent with Celestine giving them a bonus move. I can see a case for just adding Celestine and a unit of Seraphim to a lot of imperial armies. They'd be extremely useful in missions like the relic - as would a unit of dominions (or anything else) that you could park on it before the game started.
A unit of 5 seraphim is basically mandatory, 10 is pretty darn good to. It doesn't matter if the seraphim do a single wound if they make it to the backline. A 55 point unit of seraphim can shut down Lascannon Devs, Centurions, Double Dakka Castellans, Cataphron, Lascannon Predators, Biovores, HWT, shooty foot infantry, etc, etc, etc, for the whole game if left uncontested. And if they do contest, then you own their movement phase which is probably the biggest advantage you can give yourself.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ncshooter426 wrote: It makes me angry that Celestine can't deepstrike with her Seraphim. I want them to be together so bad
Why can't she? Just deepstrike them both close together and pretend they're the same unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/03 16:08:19
