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I have been playing it as a modifier because it says to add 1, it doesnt say "Treat is as being 1 better"

Yeah, that's my interpretation.

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, that's my interpretation.

So you do play it as a 6++, 5++? I've been doing it as a 5++,5++. But, I'm on the fence. GWs inconsistent phrasing makes it ambiguous.

I also should have elaborated.

If you play it as a +1 modifier:
6 needed. Roll a 5.
Can't add modifier because of modifier/reroll rules.
Second roll. Rolled a 5.
No more reolls. 5 gets +1 added.
6 achieved. Wound saved.

If you play it as a stat modifier and not a +1 to the roll.
5 needed. Roll a 5 on first dice. Wound saved.
(can also roll 2 dice at once as long as a 5+ is rolled)




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I have been playing it as a modifier because it says to add 1, it doesnt say "Treat is as being 1 better"

But...
All friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS units within 6" of Celestine add 1 to their Shield of Faith invulnerable saves.

It doesn't say add 1 to the roll. So how do we know if we're add 1 to the stat line or to the roll?

I know I could go for a FAQ on it.

Guys, this is ridiculous. For positive modifiers it literally doesn't matter. You choose whether or not to reroll.

If you roll a bunch of 5's and 6's then decide not to reroll the 5s and only reroll the 1-4's.

This only comes up as a problem with negative modifiers, because even though you know that 3 will miss after modifiers you can only choose to reroll misses - and it isn't a miss yet.

Edit: So to make it quite clear, it's 5++, 5++ no matter what the phrasing or grammar games come into play, don't worry about it.

Thinking about it more.

Would Cover saves work the same thing?

I still think it is a modifier for sure, but it seems that its not intended to be played like how to hit re-rolls areand played more so like cover save modifiers.

Wow, I hadn't observed this little nuance. I've been treating it as two chances to get a 5 or better. AS units without a rerollable save (e.g. not Seraphim) get the aura benefit on their initial attempt at a save, so I've applied it the same way to Seraphim. What's the wording on the BRB rule in question?

Lanlaorn wrote:
Guys, this is ridiculous. For positive modifiers it literally doesn't matter. You choose whether or not to reroll.

If you roll a bunch of 5's and 6's then decide not to reroll the 5s and only reroll the 1-4's.

This only comes up as a problem with negative modifiers, because even though you know that 3 will miss after modifiers you can only choose to reroll misses - and it isn't a miss yet.

Edit: So to make it quite clear, it's 5++, 5++ no matter what the phrasing or grammar games come into play, don't worry about it.

Except their rule doesn't give you the option.

Angelic Visage: Re-roll failed Shield of Faith invulnerable saves for this unit.

it doesn't say you 'may' reroll failed. It says you have to. And as you stated above, it's failed before it receives the modifier, just like something hasn't missed because it hasn't received the negative modifier.

I'm sure we're doing it correctly as a 5++,5++, but there is room for discussion, which is why I wondered how you guys play it.

It's just sloppy writing in the Index, all re-rolls are optional.

It's 5++ x2. If you really want to hash it out, I think YMDC may be a better spot.

 pretre wrote:
It's 5++ x2. If you really want to hash it out, I think YMDC may be a better spot.

It was in YMDC and there were 4 posts by non-sisters players that decided it was 6/5 which is why I was asking actual sisters players how they play it in game. Real life implementation is better than rules theory. I do play it as 5/5 and no one has ever batted an eye. But then again most people I play have no idea about sisters, especially at tournaments.

It probably depends on if you're playing against "That Guy" or not.

Most reasonable people will play 5++/5++.

"That Guy" will say it is 6++/5++, and he has a very valid argument.

Most people don't care about getting into rules bickering, though, and the case for 5++/5++ is strong enough, and within the spirit, that I think most reasonable players wouldn't argue.

For tournament play, though, definitely find out from the TO or Rules Adjudicator or something ahead of time to find out how HE feels like interpreting it that day... and just play it that way for the time being.

Not much else to do.

And this is why I didn't want it here. Someone having a different interpretation of the rules does not make him 'that guy'. Can we just leave the rules discussion to YMDC?

He didnt ask for a YMDC tho, he asked how many are playing it which way.
Ive been playing it 6++/5++

Us stating why isnt rules debating, its just giving a reason.
My reason is i believe it to be a modifier.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
He didnt ask for a YMDC tho, he asked how many are playing it which way.
Ive been playing it 6++/5++

Us stating why isnt rules debating, its just giving a reason.
My reason is i believe it to be a modifier.

Right, but now someone is attributing malice to an interpretation of the rules and we're arguing about silly bs. I was just saying I prefer to keep that kind of stuff out of this thread. And this shows why.

Who else is going to Adepticon?

ME!!

I'll be there playing some form of Sisters in the singles.

Kumabear wrote:
ME!!

Wow! Is that your display board?

I wish... planning on 2019 or 2020.

 pretre wrote:

Kumabear wrote:
ME!!

Wow! Is that your display board?

Yep!! Buddy is finishing his custodes to add to it

That's looks awesome

I might have time to make a display board. I doubt it, though.

That's super awesome! I just did this with mine. Local 2 day, not adepticon

Those look great, y'all. How mainstream is the "display board" in the convention/tournament scene? Is it a critical part of the score outside of the actual battle points? Do people show up without them, or is it more a matter of who goes big and who doesn't?

From what I gathered with Adepticon there's the Warmaster title from winning the tournament, but you can get best overall awards when you combine the hobby aspect of it.

 deviantduck wrote:
From what I gathered with Adepticon there's the Warmaster title from winning the tournament, but you can get best overall awards when you combine the hobby aspect of it.

Very cool. I've never done anything beyond a local tournament, but now I'm motivated to build a display board for the fun of it. Somewhere down the list... maybe after building an actual board to play games on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a question... I know some people on this thread run mostly or exclusively infantry despite the dominance of Repressors and Dominions. Is part of the advantage that you can deny the utility of your opponent's anti-tank? It would be hard for a 170-point lascannon Dev squad to earn their points back if the juiciest thing they could target was a 10-point Dominion on foot. Is that a core principle of a footslogging list, a nice little perk on the side, or just something I've imagined?

Here's the all-foot list I'm tinkering with for context... no transports, no walkers, relatively few multi-wound models, just lots of Stormbolters, HB Rets, and Inferno Seraphim.

1999 Points Sisters Brigade + Scions Battalion + Inquisition Vanguard; 135 PL, 16 CP

What factors go into making Retributors with Heavy Bolters most effective? I'm in the theory stages of a Silver Sisters list (GK + Sisters) and I like the idea of the Heavy Bolter Retributors. My only concern is that the Retributors are going to end up exposed and easily killed. I've got about 200 points to play with to support them, so any advice on what I need to make this idea successful is appreciated.

Here's the list for context:

 Chippen wrote:
What factors go into making Retributors with Heavy Bolters most effective? I'm in the theory stages of a Silver Sisters list (GK + Sisters) and I like the idea of the Heavy Bolter Retributors. My only concern is that the Retributors are going to end up exposed and easily killed. I've got about 200 points to play with to support them, so any advice on what I need to make this idea successful is appreciated.

HB Rets work because:
1) They are cheap
2) They are efficient when paired with a canoness/imagifers
3) They are an easy place to dump excess faith
4) If you're opponent is shooting at them, you've already lost because all your more aggressive threats are dead.

In my experience, a backfield castle with Canoness, 1-2 squads of HB Rets, and 1-2 Imagifiers (you'll get mixed opinions here) are a solid option. S5 shooting with good range and high volume can strip bubble wrap as you say, clear objectives, finish off vehicles, and dish out wounds against most of the 40k infantry universe. I try to run 6 per squad for ablative wounds if I can, and screen them with 45 point stock BSS squads.

Thanks for the kind responses all!

pretre- Very cool! Love that kit, it was on the list for the board.

MacPhail- The board is actually a part of the painting score in a lot of tournaments (big ones at least) Just having one can nab you free points.

I also used different flowers to mark the different units