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I don't know about the FAQ to which dracpanzer refers. I play it based off the rulebook. The only restriction under the Transport section is models have to disembark before it moves. It doesn't restrict moving after embarking so it is by default allowed.

Yeah, I was just curious about the 'change'. I have never done the move and run up thing because it was too complicated and didn't get me enough.

It works, but leaves you vulnerable if you go 2nd. So if you can hide your BSS out of LoS then it works safely. The repressors are so long with the dozer that when you scout up 12", it's still roughly 6 away from the BSS. They only have to get within 3" to embark. Even with scout+advance you're close enough for the BSS to reliably embark. I take Doms (4x melta, 1x SB) and BSS (3x SB, 2x B). It's obviously not as good as 2x Doms in there, but the tears have dried and it's time to move on.

I played a game early 8th when Razorback spam was a thing and i was still playing with vehicles.

I had 6 Immolators all line up butt to front to completely LoS block my many units of Ret HB's (6 units) and it worked great. So you can make your own LoS if you have vehicle heavy.

PS yes i beat the razorback spam, it wasnt that hard actually, Celestine took one out each turn basically and the 6 Ret HBs took 2 out a turn (I have imagifiers for more shots with Canoness for re-roll ones).

 deviantduck wrote:
I don't know about the FAQ to which dracpanzer refers. I play it based off the rulebook. The only restriction under the Transport section is models have to disembark before it moves. It doesn't restrict moving after embarking so it is by default allowed.

It might just be a local thing, but the FAQ at least put the argument (again perhaps only local) to rest about it. I know that I have played it as not allowed while getting games in while traveling, at least for my own army. Seems we were self nerfing, but the FAQ apparently made us stop?

 dracpanzer wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I don't know about the FAQ to which dracpanzer refers. I play it based off the rulebook. The only restriction under the Transport section is models have to disembark before it moves. It doesn't restrict moving after embarking so it is by default allowed.

It might just be a local thing, but the FAQ at least put the argument (again perhaps only local) to rest about it. I know that I have played it as not allowed while getting games in while traveling, at least for my own army. Seems we were self nerfing, but the FAQ apparently made us stop?

Still no clue what you're talking about. Transports are only mentioned in the Big FAQ in the new deployment rule which revolves around counting them as a unit. There aren't any movement restrictions addressed.

Like I said, it was a early 8ed local thing that was put to rest by the FAQ. Apparently my mind just ran with the local consensus at the time.

Nothing to see here, move along...

On a similar note, I got in my head somewhere that in addition to Smite's WC now increasing with each attempt, I though the initial WC went down to 4. Did I imagine that?

Also, is it just me, or does that make our 6-on-a-d6 Deny even more useless?

I have yet to make a single deny on a 6+. Though the sample is small as they usually fail or roll higher than a 6 to begin with when casting. Our deny anything on a 4+ however is gold. The increasing difficulty for Smite will just hopefully lead to less of them coming your way.

 dracpanzer wrote:
I have yet to make a single deny on a 6+. Though the sample is small as they usually fail or roll higher than a 6 to begin with when casting. Our deny anything on a 4+ however is gold. The increasing difficulty for Smite will just hopefully lead to less of them coming your way.

My best was against Tsons in a tourney last October. Denied 3/8 smites on a 6. He was pissy. It's still a wonky mechanic, though. Being forced to take a battalion does open up more CP for the 4+ stratagem which is nice.

So with Anvil Industry's 'I can't believe it's not SOB' KS going on I thought I'd take the plunge on a sisters army

I'm planning on starting out with 2 10 woman squads, a retributor squad with heavy bolters and some celestians to escort my HQ.

I have a couple rhino chassis vehicles that I'd held onto from other projects. I don't know about turning them into repressors since I don't have a lot of spare bits lying around. Are stock rhinos going to cut it?

Stock Rhinos are okay, but not awesome. Repressors or Immolatosr are both better.

Hey all, dusting off some death cultists, crusaders and Arco flaggellants I have from my.old grey Knight codex... How do you all use them? Are they any good this edition?

 Smotejob wrote:
Hey all, dusting off some death cultists, crusaders and Arco flaggellants I have from my.old grey Knight codex... How do you all use them? Are they any good this edition?

Buy the index with their rules and Download the warhammer Rules Primer

They all are fine for melee units. I use Acros every game, 9+priest

 Smotejob wrote:
Hey all, dusting off some death cultists, crusaders and Arco flaggellants I have from my.old grey Knight codex... How do you all use them? Are they any good this edition?

I have some experience of being in the recieving end of arco flagellants. With a priest they are really good at killing stuff with low armour saves.
9 Arco flagellants with the War Hymns buff will do an average of 48 S5 hits.

 ScarletRose wrote:
So with Anvil Industry's 'I can't believe it's not SOB' KS going on I thought I'd take the plunge on a sisters army

I'm planning on starting out with 2 10 woman squads, a retributor squad with heavy bolters and some celestians to escort my HQ.

I have a couple rhino chassis vehicles that I'd held onto from other projects. I don't know about turning them into repressors since I don't have a lot of spare bits lying around. Are stock rhinos going to cut it?

You can get some 3d printed parts off of Shapeways to turn your Rhinos into convincing Repressors.
Considering Rhinos are also an option in the index it's a little wonky to call them Repressors in anything other than friendly games where proxies are ok.

And Celestians aren't much use in their current form, for the points Dominions or BSS are a better pick.

 Smotejob wrote:
Hey all, dusting off some death cultists, crusaders and Arco flaggellants I have from my.old grey Knight codex... How do you all use them? Are they any good this edition?

Can't speak on how good they are, but something you need to be aware of that I think some of us missed in CA2017, something that compounds Rule of 3 for us as well:

Any detachment that includes Ministorum units that are not also Adepta Sororitas units -- that being DCA, Crusaders, Priests, Jacobus and Penitent Engines -- loses access to Objective Secured as CA2017 lists Adepta Sororitas, not Adeptus Ministorum as the faction that gains Ob Sec and the requirement is that it has to be an Adepta Sororitas detachment, not an Adeptus Ministorum detachment.

Also, if none of your detachments are Adepta Sororitas - meaning you don't have at least one detachment where every unit has the Adepta Sororitas keyword, OR your only Adepta Sororitas detachment is an Auxiliary Support detachment, then you can't use either of the Stratagems from CA2017.

That's right, folks. Include a unit of Penitent Engines or a single Priest in a detachment that's otherwise Sisters of Battle, you lose Objective Secured for that detachment and if it's your only detachment with Sisters in it you lose access to the stratagems as well.

Why does this compound Ro3?

Adepta Sororitas units by slot:
HQ: 2 - Canoness, Celestine (max 4)
Elites: 6 - Dialogus, Imagifier, Hospitaller, Celestians, Mistress of Repentia, Repentia (max 18)
Fast Attack: 2 - Seraphim, Dominions (max 6)
Heavy Support: 2 - Retributors, Exorcists (max 6)
Flyers: 0 (all have other keywords)

Bring a brigade of Sisters, you can bring at most one other detachment of pure Sisters because of our only other HQ choice being Jacobus.
Bring a battalion of Sisters, you can potentially squeeze in two more detachments depending on what they are.
Want to bring a Supreme Command detachment? It better be from another faction, otherwise you get one detachment that is neither a Brigade nor Battalion -- unless you include Jacobus in the Supreme Command detachment, then you can bring a Battalion.
Flyers? Soup rule prevents us from bringing less than 3 now unless we want to lose CP to do so.

8th isnt 7th, dont compare the two, in 8th only Troops have ObjSec unless a rule says otherwise, and so far thats only Custodes.

The new Battle Brothers rule does apply to Adeptus Ministorum units being unavailable in a SoB detachment though.

 dracpanzer wrote:
The new Battle Brothers rule does apply to Adeptus Ministorum units being unavailable in a SoB detachment though.

That's not true.

BATTLE BROTHERS
All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot
be Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari or Tyranids, unless the Detachment in question is a Fortification Network. This has no effect on your
Army Faction.

They share Adeptus Ministorum.

You're thinking of the Ob Sec rule, which says you have to have Adepta Sororitas.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
8th isnt 7th, dont compare the two, in 8th only Troops have ObjSec unless a rule says otherwise, and so far thats only Custodes.

That isn't what I'm saying at all.

Chapter Approved gave Adepta Sororitas, Space Wolves, Orks and Harlequins (as well as other factions that now have codexes but didn't at the time) objective secured for troops choices if the entire detachment shares one of those keywords. Adeptus Ministorum, however, is not one of those keywords so we do not get objective secured for Troops in any detachment that includes Adeptus Ministorum units as that Detachment is now an Adeptus Ministorum Detachment, not an Adepta Sororitas Detachment. Page 88, left column, Chapter Approved 2017.

As for the stratagems, page 89 states you must have an Adepta Sororitas detachment that is not auxiliary support to be able to use the two stratagems listed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically what I'm saying is if you want to bring priests, Jacobus, DCA, Crusaders and Penitent Engineers, being then in a detachment that contains no Troops choices or your BSSs in that detachment lose Obs Sec because the detachment becomes Ministorum, not Sororitas.

Taikishi wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
8th isnt 7th, dont compare the two, in 8th only Troops have ObjSec unless a rule says otherwise, and so far thats only Custodes.

That isn't what I'm saying at all.

Chapter Approved gave Adepta Sororitas, Space Wolves, Orks and Harlequins (as well as other factions that now have codexes but didn't at the time) objective secured for troops choices if the entire detachment shares one of those keywords. Adeptus Ministorum, however, is not one of those keywords so we do not get objective secured for Troops in any detachment that includes Adeptus Ministorum units as that Detachment is now an Adeptus Ministorum Detachment, not an Adepta Sororitas Detachment. Page 88, left column, Chapter Approved 2017.

As for the stratagems, page 89 states you must have an Adepta Sororitas detachment that is not auxiliary support to be able to use the two stratagems listed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically what I'm saying is if you want to bring priests, Jacobus, DCA, Crusaders and Penitent Engineers, being then in a detachment that contains no Troops choices or your BSSs in that detachment lose Obs Sec because the detachment becomes Ministorum, not Sororitas.

Ok i get what you are saying now, yeah that sucks.

 pretre wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
The new Battle Brothers rule does apply to Adeptus Ministorum units being unavailable in a SoB detachment though.

That's not true.

BATTLE BROTHERS
All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot
be Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari or Tyranids, unless the Detachment in question is a Fortification Network. This has no effect on your
Army Faction.

They share Adeptus Ministorum.

You're thinking of the Ob Sec rule, which says you have to have Adepta Sororitas.

And Strategems. So if you want an SoB detachment to get all their rules, your Ministorum stuff needs to be in its own detachment. If you want to lose the strategems and obsec, you can bring Sisters into your Ministorum detachment. Right?

It's definitely an oversight and sucks for that reason, but the AdMin units are all overpriced underwhelming melee dreck so is it really a big deal?

Not sure about over priced, but they are fun

This is a 40k tactica thread on Dakka. "Fun" has no place here. /s

Also Acolyte Hybrids do the same job as Flagellants, but cost roughly half what Flaggos do and can be Ambushed into position instead of being shot off the table before they get chance to charge anything . Penitengines are okay I suppose, but there are still better options available to Sisters, even before accounting for the fact they deny access to Strats.

Flagellants have done well for me in the past but 9 guys, with a priest, and a rhino is really pricey. For their cost and the fact that they generally need their own detachment now makes them a less attractive choice.

If you don't care about either obsec or Stratagems then great, take them, but if you it's not worth the detachment for them alone when there are allies out there who can fill a similar role while proving more to the army over all.

 dracpanzer wrote:
And Strategems. So if you want an SoB detachment to get all their rules, your Ministorum stuff needs to be in its own detachment. If you want to lose the strategems and obsec, you can bring Sisters into your Ministorum detachment. Right?

You still get the stratagems as long as you bring at least one Sisters detachment that isn't an Auxiliary Support detachment. And if you really want Ministorum units, you can always bring, say, a Spearhead detachment that has no Battle Sister Squads but includes Penitent Engines. Want Priests and Crusaders? Maybe bring an Imperial Guard detachment since they DO have the Astra Militarum keyword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BBAP wrote:
This is a 40k tactica thread on Dakka. "Fun" has no place here. /s

Also Acolyte Hybrids do the same job as Flagellants, but cost roughly half what Flaggos do and can be Ambushed into position instead of being shot off the table before they get chance to charge anything . Penitengines are okay I suppose, but there are still better options available to Sisters, even before accounting for the fact they deny access to Strats.

They don't deny access to strats as long as you take at least one Sisters detachment. Seriously, all you need is a single Sisters detachment that isn't Auxiliary Support and you get the stratagems.

This is a spit ball list I posted elsewhere for the hell of it. It gets access to both Sisters and Space Marine stratagems:



That 400 points spent on Guilliman? I could throw them into 400 points of a Spearhead Ministorum detachment with Penitent Engines if I wanted and would still get the Sisters stratagems because I have the Outrider detachment that's pure SoB.

Yeah, but why would you take Guilliman out of an army for the sake of Penitengines? Guilliman brings a lot more to the table than they do. Also if we're doing combi-Sisters now, for the same 400pts you could bring a Spearhead with 3 Basilisks and a triple-Mortar HWS and a Lord Commissar or Psyker or something.

It seems like you're pushing really hard to find room for these AdMin units - which is fine, because it's your money at the end of the day, but fitting them in isn't a good idea simply because it can be done. IMHO they'd fit better in an AM infantry horde, where the Priests aren't a total waste of time, than they do in a Sisters army.

It was an example, not something I'm actively going to do.

A few people seemed to misinterpret part of what I said as "if you bring any Ministorum units you lose access to the stratagems." I was trying to illustrate that their line of thinking is only true if:

1. the only Sister unit they bring is Auxiliary Support OR
2. they have 0 "pure Sisters" detachments

Trust me, that list doesn't benefit at all from AdMin. Guilliman is there to recycle CP as warlord, especially those used on SftS, and provide some buffs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slight correction. He's also there to be a single unit 18 PL drop so I can deploy as few units as possible while putting as many into reserve as possible between SftS and Issodon. It's also why the Seraphim and Retributor squads are 6 models: 20 points for 9 PL.