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Also Jon is not very bright - he might have forgotten.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Also Jon is not very bright - he might have forgotten.

He did have a mild case of stab to back not long after this was said.

Dang, yall brutal.

Overall I really enjoyed the episode. So my take on some of the issues;

Benjen knew how close to death Jon was and two full grown and armored men on a horse massively slow it down. Hence no time. Benjen has literally been a plot device from season/book one and he seems to be around just to help the other starks. Besides it gives jon and bran something to discuss later.

I handwave the dragon travel thing. It was silly fast but if the Internet hadn't blown up about it I probably wouldn't have noticed.

I have felt subtle interest from both leads in every discussion including the first one. I've actually really enjoyed dany obviously trying to hide behind her queen status to create distance. Jon has seemed far more focused but his earnest looks could be doing the same. What I'm saying is I think both actors are creating a believable interest in each other. Especially because they both share duty and values but compliment the others extremes fairly well.

I'm liking this season. I expected tormund to go down but am glad he didnt. I'm hoping arya is playing a long game on little finger and that the girls bond over it once they realize they both were. Next week should be interesting!

I feel like people are really sleeping on Beric and Jon's conversation. Jon's entire arc since he was raised is that he is finding trouble caring about anything, and he has a constant desire to put himself in dangerous situations. Jon seems to have this moment of clarity when he says "Maybe that's enough" with a smile on his face. I think in this moment Jon becomes the old Jon again, or at least moves in that general direction. He has a purpose again: he will be the shield that guards the realms of men because what else would he do? He's the hero.

Also the season has given us a few examples of men without fear finding a woman and becoming vulnerable because of their fear of losing that woman. Greyworm says it to Missande, and even Tormond finally looks shaken in the fight, screaming "help me" as he is being dragged into the frozen lake. I don't think it's a coincidence that he tells the Hound of his love for Brienne soon before this happens. This is a problem Jon has already confronted and beat with Regards to Ygritte. Love is the death of duty but Jon doesn't seem to suffer from that flaw as the other characters do as he already overcame it when he went back to the watch.

We'll see what happens tonight....and man am I ready to be emotionally devastated.

 reds8n wrote:


... so this prophecy about Cersei being killed by one of her children.

It's just for her yeah ? No chance it could in fact be about Dany ?

... didn't think so.

The prophecy is that Cersei would have three children but that they would all die before her. Then she would be killed by "little brother".

However...

Given that we basically now have two opposing forces, both foreign to Westeros (if the Golden Company hints are true), led by "mad queens" (mad eyebrows do count...) who are both in an incestuous relationship... well that kind of mirroring could be taken as foreshadowing. Makes me nervous for Dany AND her dragons.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:


Also the season has given us a few examples of men without fear finding a woman and becoming vulnerable because of their fear of losing that woman. Greyworm says it to Missande, and even Tormond finally looks shaken in the fight, screaming "help me" as he is being dragged into the frozen lake. I don't think it's a coincidence that he tells the Hound of his love for Brienne soon before this happens. This is a problem Jon has already confronted and beat with Regards to Ygritte. Love is the death of duty but Jon doesn't seem to suffer from that flaw as the other characters do as he already overcame it when he went back to the watch.

We'll see what happens tonight....and man am I ready to be emotionally devastated.

Maybe Jon dedication to duty will be tested again when he is forced to thrust Longclaw Light-bringer into Daenerys' Nissa Nissa's heart.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Also Jon is not very bright - he might have forgotten.

Jon, yes, Tarly no. You'd think that as soon as Jon mentioned they need obsidian Tarly would go "oh yeah, Stannis said something about there being dragonglass on dragonstone."

Speaking of Dragonstone, why was it deserted? I'm not talking about hundreds of men, just 20. A good fortress is designed to be easily defended by a few number of men. I know hollywood likes to shove as many soldiers in castles as possible, but really that would be counterproductive to the function of a castle, as if you need thousands of men to make defending it viable then you won't have any forces to go on the defensive.
Hell, they even said that Winterfell only needs like what, 100 men? 20 men?

I really don't like the improvised writing. The series was its strongest when it followed the books, but as soon as the writers starting to do their own thing that's when the stupid started.

Speaking of Dragonstone, why was it deserted?

Desertion? When the garrison heard of Stannis' defeat and death in the North and the complete obliteration of his army, there would have been incentive for them to remain at their post in the service of a now deceased King with no Heir. I imagine they would have taken a boat and slunk off back to their homes in the Stormlands, or integrated back into the general population of Kings Landing and the Crownlands.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Also Jon is not very bright - he might have forgotten.

Jon, yes, Tarly no. You'd think that as soon as Jon mentioned they need obsidian Tarly would go "oh yeah, Stannis said something about there being dragonglass on dragonstone."

Speaking of Dragonstone, why was it deserted? I'm not talking about hundreds of men, just 20. A good fortress is designed to be easily defended by a few number of men. I know hollywood likes to shove as many soldiers in castles as possible, but really that would be counterproductive to the function of a castle, as if you need thousands of men to make defending it viable then you won't have any forces to go on the defensive.
Hell, they even said that Winterfell only needs like what, 100 men? 20 men?

I really don't like the improvised writing. The series was its strongest when it followed the books, but as soon as the writers starting to do their own thing that's when the stupid started.

Dragonstone needs a fair garrison but it's well designed. It's is not a small castle. Not the biggest but dragonstone is a fair sized fortress even with its natural isolated location, cliffs and walls up to the coastline.

Castley rock a supposed impenetrable fortress has no moat and you can get army to foot of wall easily...
Dtagonsyone is almost harder to capture.

Also dragonstone needs ships and such to supply it. Aka someone worth resources. Hardly see nay farm land there. It's all cliff top and rugged mountains. Best you farm there is sheep.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Speaking of Dragonstone, why was it deserted?

Desertion? When the garrison heard of Stannis' defeat and death in the North and the complete obliteration of his army, there would have been incentive for them to remain at their post in the service of a now deceased King with no Heir. I imagine they would have taken a boat and slunk off back to their homes in the Stormlands, or integrated back into the general population of Kings Landing and the Crownlands.

So...why didn't the Lannisters just move in? I mean, they basically just gave Dany a free castle.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Speaking of Dragonstone, why was it deserted?

Desertion? When the garrison heard of Stannis' defeat and death in the North and the complete obliteration of his army, there would have been incentive for them to remain at their post in the service of a now deceased King with no Heir. I imagine they would have taken a boat and slunk off back to their homes in the Stormlands, or integrated back into the general population of Kings Landing any d the Crownlands.

So...why didn't the Lannisters just move in? I mean, they basically just gave Dany a free castle.

I Don, t know.
Before Danny it was a barathian castle they took off targerians and during rebellion Stannis was the one who held it I believe.

After Stannis. It fell empty till Danny took the fortress in.
Though it is isolated. And dragonstone commands very few vassals VS the storm lands proper.

Dragonstone is powerful location but not a mighty family seat like castley, winter fell, eyre. And high garden who had a powerful group of banner men loyal.

 jhe90 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Speaking of Dragonstone, why was it deserted?

Desertion? When the garrison heard of Stannis' defeat and death in the North and the complete obliteration of his army, there would have been incentive for them to remain at their post in the service of a now deceased King with no Heir. I imagine they would have taken a boat and slunk off back to their homes in the Stormlands, or integrated back into the general population of Kings Landing any d the Crownlands.

So...why didn't the Lannisters just move in? I mean, they basically just gave Dany a free castle.

I Don, t know.
Before Danny it was a barathian castle they took off targerians and during rebellion Stannis was the one who held it I believe.

After Stannis. It fell empty till Danny took the fortress in.
Though it is isolated. And dragonstone commands very few vassals VS the storm lands proper.

Dragonstone is powerful location but not a mighty family seat like castley, winter fell, eyre. And high garden who had a powerful group of banner men loyal.

Well it was the family seat of the mightest Family before they invaded and took over Westros.

I would have thought it would have been mroe attractive to the Iron Born myself - having a storng castle, good port and decent position to raid anyone they like. Probbaly just that everyone was too busy to expend resources on it

The series was its strongest when it followed the books, but as soon as the writers starting to do their own thing that's when the stupid started.

Well they adapted all the decent books and rightly ignored the dross that was the later novels. I do agree that there is much more - "don;t worry abotu stuff just get on with it even when they could have written better to get to the same point.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Speaking of Dragonstone, why was it deserted?

Desertion? When the garrison heard of Stannis' defeat and death in the North and the complete obliteration of his army, there would have been incentive for them to remain at their post in the service of a now deceased King with no Heir. I imagine they would have taken a boat and slunk off back to their homes in the Stormlands, or integrated back into the general population of Kings Landing any d the Crownlands.

So...why didn't the Lannisters just move in? I mean, they basically just gave Dany a free castle.

I Don, t know.
Before Danny it was a barathian castle they took off targerians and during rebellion Stannis was the one who held it I believe.

After Stannis. It fell empty till Danny took the fortress in.
Though it is isolated. And dragonstone commands very few vassals VS the storm lands proper.

Dragonstone is powerful location but not a mighty family seat like castley, winter fell, eyre. And high garden who had a powerful group of banner men loyal.

Well it was the family seat of the mightest Family before they invaded and took over Westros.

I would have thought it would have been mroe attractive to the Iron Born myself - having a storng castle, good port and decent position to raid anyone they like. Probbaly just that everyone was too busy to expend resources on it

The series was its strongest when it followed the books, but as soon as the writers starting to do their own thing that's when the stupid started.

Well they adapted all the decent books and rightly ignored the dross that was the later novels. I do agree that there is much more - "don;t worry abotu stuff just get on with it even when they could have written better to get to the same point.

It is a formidable fortress. And a big one. It has impressive defences of Targerian wrought stone work. It's very well built.

However present dragonstone did not have alot of banner men. Storm lands had the banner men under renley.

Stannis had dragonstone. Powerful fortress, but but low banner men. In right hands, oh its a utter pain the preverbial donkey to capture.

Reley when he declared at first took all the good Lords and armies for himself. Stannis early on had to scrape and scrounge until he used the blood magic to kill him and turn thr army to his command.

Post Targerian dragonstone was not as powerful or influential as baratithian era fortress.

The logistics of maintaining it would be terrific and until Daenerys showed up it was pretty worthless. During a civil war it would have value. Cersie certainly didn't expect a foreign power to show up.

I'm ready for Cleganebowl tonight, get hype.

That Dothraki with what looks like a leather jacket on has the badass look down pat.

Littlefinger was the most satisfying thing to happen this entire season.

And Targaryans went full Targaryan.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: Cleganebowl confirmed.

I liked the episode overall, but found it unrealistic how Jamie went from full armor in the map room, to casual incognito clothes about a mile out of the city in just a few moments. This show has jumped the shark entirely with its pacing.

Amirite?

Sooooooooooo... Survivor's from the wall?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Also Jon is not very bright - he might have forgotten.

As the show has progressed, I've come to realize Jon really is just dumb as all feth.

At least this time round, a whole bunch of the cast outright told him that.

Also, thoughts, thoughts, thoughts!!!!

 nels1031 wrote:
I liked the episode overall, but found it unrealistic how Jamie went from full armor in the map room, to casual incognito clothes about a mile out of the city in just a few moments. This show has jumped the shark entirely with its pacing.

Amirite?

You're kidding right?

Almost always!

My only gripe with the Finale...WHERES HODOR???

So magically cold frosty breath is what was needed to bring down the wall? Not flaming hot ice melting dragon fire? While I understand the need to drive the plot forward just how strong is frosty breath? Does the dragon fire melt and shatter entire stone fortresses at a pass? While dragon fire certainly cooked a bunch of Lanisters it seemed nowhere near as brutally effective as frosty cold somehow melting through something the size of a mountain.

I'd think adding extra frosty cold would make more snow and the ice might grow? Maybe make a nice ice ramp up the wall? But explode it? These GOT physics are baffling indeed.

Blue fire is not cold...have you never used a Bunsen burner?

 paulson games wrote:
So magically cold frosty breath is what was needed to bring down the wall? Not flaming hot ice melting dragon fire? While I understand the need to drive the plot forward just how strong is frosty breath? Does the dragon fire melt and shatter entire stone fortresses at a pass? While dragon fire certainly cooked a bunch of Lanisters it seemed nowhere near as brutally effective as frosty cold somehow melting through something the size of a mountain.

I'd think adding extra frosty cold would make more snow and the ice might grow? Maybe make a nice ice ramp up the wall? But explode it? These GOT physics are baffling indeed.

They were just doing quick straffing runs before, where the blue eyes wight dragon was using more continuous, sustained fire in one concentrated area.

 paulson games wrote:
So magically cold frosty breath is what was needed to bring down the wall? Not flaming hot ice melting dragon fire? While I understand the need to drive the plot forward just how strong is frosty breath? Does the dragon fire melt and shatter entire stone fortresses at a pass? While dragon fire certainly cooked a bunch of Lanisters it seemed nowhere near as brutally effective as frosty cold somehow melting through something the size of a mountain.

I'd think adding extra frosty cold would make more snow and the ice might grow? Maybe make a nice ice ramp up the wall? But explode it? These GOT physics are baffling indeed.

From what I saw it was less cold, per se, and more impactful - it seemed more like it was destroying the wall like a hammer vs melting.

It's magic. They don't gotta 'splain gak!

Anyway:

Beric Dondarrion: The Lord brought you back, and he brought me back. No one else. Just us. Did he do it to watch us freeze to death? ... I've been waiting for the end for a long time. Maybe the Lord brought me here to find it?

*a few days later*

Beric Dondarrion: *dies off screen*

Wonderful.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Beric Dondarrion: *dies off screen*
Wonderful.

You assume too much...