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That last episode was pretty solid, wayyyyy better than episode 6, was largely pleased with this one.

 d-usa wrote:
I think Theon finally turned himself around and managed to throw out Reek to embrace the honor of his Stark upbringing and the determination of his Greyjoy heritage.

Not sure how many "Redemption of Theon" storylines the character deserves tbh.

 Vaktathi wrote:
That last episode was pretty solid, wayyyyy better than episode 6, was largely pleased with this one.

Spoiler:

Mostly with Aria slitting Baelish, that was...a thing of true beauty. Also Cersei's face when the zombie runs at her

That bit was 100% pure satisfaction, particularly as Sansa has clearly matured as a character. Favourite bit of thaf scene?

'I'm Lord Protector of the Vale, and you will escort me safely back to the Riverlands'

'No'

 Ouze wrote:
Not sure how many "Redemption of Theon" storylines the character deserves tbh.

Yeah, Theon's plot has been a bit directionless and a bit boring for a while now. Probably since he escaped Ramsey.

It didn't help that this redemption effort was pretty goofy, never mind the corny bit about being kneed in the groin and it not hurting, the whole thing about Theon killing the ship's captain to take the ship and prove he was strong again is a pretty goofy cliche. I mean, in what world does the crew of a ship just following some guy on a suicide mission, just because that guy just murdered their old captain in front of them?


*getting kneed hurts all the time, even in places that don't have genitals, so it'd also still really hurt in a place that used to have genitals.

 Ouze wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I think Theon finally turned himself around and managed to throw out Reek to embrace the honor of his Stark upbringing and the determination of his Greyjoy heritage.

Not sure how many "Redemption of Theon" storylines the character deserves tbh.

Agreed let him die saving Yara and then she can take back the Iron Fleet not bother with the whole Gold Company nonsense. Theon's story is done and if they want to redeem him then let it end in his death.

If Euron is dead and Yara unable to command, its likely the Iron Fleet would breakup anyway with no unifying force and go back to raiding.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I think Theon finally turned himself around and managed to throw out Reek to embrace the honor of his Stark upbringing and the determination of his Greyjoy heritage.

Not sure how many "Redemption of Theon" storylines the character deserves tbh.

Agreed let him die saving Yara and then she can take back the Iron Fleet not bother with the whole Gold Company nonsense. Theon's story is done and if they want to redeem him then let it end in his death.

If Euron is dead and Yara unable to command, its likely the Iron Fleet would breakup anyway with no unifying force and go back to raiding.

Year a is only one to command fleet minus her uncle.
Theon is a dick less coward with a bad reputation.

Yara still has a reputation as a hood captain and did challenge euron despite the odds against her.

And if they wanted to bring in golden company. Should have been earlier and maybe had them landing in secret before the meeting.

Maybe end the name meeting with the golden commando coming out of a side room and starting discussing the coming battle.s

Just after ja. I leave.

Just throwing out there that episode 6 is tied for 2nd lowest rated episode (in terms of reviews) behind only season 5, episode 6 where Sansa was raped.

Well random thoughts I had in car.
We have a very few options for a Jon snow romance.

As king, we need least a noble house. We need someone about 20's, and get his honour/mope mode nature.

So...
Who we have left alive/unmarried etc.
Sansa, arya. Hell no... Jeez. Just no.
Mormont. Too young, if older I'd put her above dany. Northern, noble. Loyal to house stark. Has more balls than most men.

Dany is closest match despite related. Similar backgrounds. Age and both of same rank, I high noble,/royal.
Both have similar stories. And goals.

Others.
We had tyrells... Had.

The eyre. Well aunt lysa, the Vale with Sansa and others well we have potentials. But we need to introduce new character. Running short on time.

Also semi related via stark side. There's no getting away from this in noble houses. Too old, too many to marry, not ernough families.

House gives frey... No. Pretty obvious.

Cesai... Do we need a answer...

Yara... Despite obvious sexual alignment issues.
Stark and grey joy, theon, seige of pike, just no...

Not gonna work.

Dany adviser. Nope. Grey worm got there first.

So unless we add a new charenter. And build them up alot so more than a obvious add in just for purpose. We low on choices.

Alot of losses in noble houses. Most side characters have fallen by way suitable, and with him being king. We need nobles.

So all in all. Bar magic time againg we only have Dany.

...
Dany wise. Well Jon snow only who slots in, there nigh on stuck with the other because we'll it just only way with current roster plus ending plus characters.

Options wise are not so high.

Unless we start adding a gendry - arya.. But that's out of character. Make tough team though.

Sansa has had her relationship alotted plots.

We have room in brine. Jamie's. Tormound triangle.
Tyrion had his plots too so unless we re link the old annulled marriage but that's a cliché I'd say...

All in all.
If they want romance. We have very few options with the current slotting.

 sebster wrote:
It didn't help that this redemption effort was pretty goofy, never mind the corny bit about being kneed in the groin and it not hurting, the whole thing about Theon killing the ship's captain to take the ship and prove he was strong again is a pretty goofy cliche. I mean, in what world does the crew of a ship just following some guy on a suicide mission, just because that guy just murdered their old captain in front of them?

*getting kneed hurts all the time, even in places that don't have genitals, so it'd also still really hurt in a place that used to have genitals.

So it actually turned out to be a GOOD THING that Ramsey carved him up down there!



And yeah, I don't see why they'd follow Theon on a suicide mission given that what they were planning to do obviously sounded better to them in the first place.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Just throwing out there that episode 6 is tied for 2nd lowest rated episode (in terms of reviews) behind only season 5, episode 6 where Sansa was raped.

Deserves to be much lower than that episode - at least the Sansa story made sense within the plot. It was unpleasant but that's quasi-medieval life for you and in fact very little different to what happened to Dany - in fact its a pity that Sansa and Dany have not met.

I enjoyed the episode - but suspension of disbelief only really lasted to the titles. This was very thin gruel.

Jon's fascination with Ygrit evolved, added tension and sparks to their relationship. With Dany - nothing. This was the real emptiness at the heart of the episode for me. Considering it's the climax of so much plotting... no resonance, no magic, no tension.

Bran has incredible powers - but all he's ever really done is work out who Jon's parents are. How bloody useful for all that hassle and all those dead companions. The encounters with Samwell was laughable.

What did Samwell learn in his time away? He got reminded where dragonglass comes from, and his girlfriend found a scroll. Is that really what you'd expect from a life-changing quest?

Tyrion has sorted out many deals that didn't work out because the other party wasn't trustworthy. He did it again. Shock horror. Plus, as mentioned before, his plan to kidnap the wight lost us a dragon. When was the last time we saw Tyrion demonstrating his intelligence. Or even his wit?

As for Littlefinger, the evil Machiavelli. What did he do this season, except stand in the background looking significant? It was ok, his death, but hardly a shock or a thrill.

Yep, theon being Theon. More of the same.

And the Winter King looks silly on a dragon, I reckon.

I still enjoy the performances, but there was absolutely zero flair in the plotting or dialogue.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
I enjoyed the episode - but suspension of disbelief only really lasted to the titles. This was very thin gruel.

Jon's fascination with Ygrit evolved, added tension and sparks to their relationship. With Dany - nothing. This was the real emptiness at the heart of the episode for me. Considering it's the climax of so much plotting... no resonance, no magic, no tension.

Bran has incredible powers - but all he's ever really done is work out who Jon's parents are. How bloody useful for all that hassle and all those dead companions. The encounters with Samwell was laughable.

What did Samwell learn in his time away? He got reminded where dragonglass comes from, and his girlfriend found a scroll. Is that really what you'd expect from a life-changing quest?

Tyrion has sorted out many deals that didn't work out because the other party wasn't trustworthy. He did it again. Shock horror. Plus, as mentioned before, his plan to kidnap the wight lost us a dragon. When was the last time we saw Tyrion demonstrating his intelligence. Or even his wit?

As for Littlefinger, the evil Machiavelli. What did he do this season, except stand in the background looking significant? It was ok, his death, but hardly a shock or a thrill.

Yep, theon being Theon. More of the same.

And the Winter King looks silly on a dragon, I reckon.

I still enjoy the performances, but there was absolutely zero flair in the plotting or dialogue.

To be fair to Theon, he been a coward and such but also h got tortured by ramsey snow...
What can that guy on beach do more,, pain aint going to work.

and well... lol.
So, cannot hurt whats gone. Maybe finally now Jon managed to give him some guts back, and Theon grew some balls he might be able to do something.

He might be dangerous combining that determination and giving him back his,,, Theon part. reconciling the wolf and thee kraken.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
I enjoyed the episode - but suspension of disbelief only really lasted to the titles. This was very thin gruel.

Jon's fascination with Ygrit evolved, added tension and sparks to their relationship. With Dany - nothing. This was the real emptiness at the heart of the episode for me. Considering it's the climax of so much plotting... no resonance, no magic, no tension.

Bran has incredible powers - but all he's ever really done is work out who Jon's parents are. How bloody useful for all that hassle and all those dead companions. The encounters with Samwell was laughable.

What did Samwell learn in his time away? He got reminded where dragonglass comes from, and his girlfriend found a scroll. Is that really what you'd expect from a life-changing quest?

Tyrion has sorted out many deals that didn't work out because the other party wasn't trustworthy. He did it again. Shock horror. Plus, as mentioned before, his plan to kidnap the wight lost us a dragon. When was the last time we saw Tyrion demonstrating his intelligence. Or even his wit?

As for Littlefinger, the evil Machiavelli. What did he do this season, except stand in the background looking significant? It was ok, his death, but hardly a shock or a thrill.

Yep, theon being Theon. More of the same.

And the Winter King looks silly on a dragon, I reckon.

I still enjoy the performances, but there was absolutely zero flair in the plotting or dialogue.

All good analysis and agree with all the points.

I think that's the problem with established cast in a tv show - you have to give them something to do or kill them off - so you end up inventing plots for them - I recall True Blood being awful for this and watching Originals at the moment and they keep having to find a plot for Cami.....

This season that's been the problem with Sam and family, Theon, Sansa, Littlefinger and others.

Bran is a simply awful creation - yeah I know everything - except when I don't , nah not going to tell you anything useful - URGGGHH -- He is a really terrible plot device which they seldom bother to utilise except for exposition and fan service.

He tried being Ironborn without honor, that's how he took Winterfell and we have seen the results. He tried being honorable like a Stark after Ramsey, but he didn't have the strength of the ironborn to back it up and failed.

It's the combination of Stark and Greyjoy that we finally got to see, the strength of the islands with the honor of the north.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
I enjoyed the episode - but suspension of disbelief only really lasted to the titles. This was very thin gruel.

Jon's fascination with Ygrit evolved, added tension and sparks to their relationship. With Dany - nothing. This was the real emptiness at the heart of the episode for me. Considering it's the climax of so much plotting... no resonance, no magic, no tension.

Bran has incredible powers - but all he's ever really done is work out who Jon's parents are. How bloody useful for all that hassle and all those dead companions. The encounters with Samwell was laughable.

What did Samwell learn in his time away? He got reminded where dragonglass comes from, and his girlfriend found a scroll. Is that really what you'd expect from a life-changing quest?

Tyrion has sorted out many deals that didn't work out because the other party wasn't trustworthy. He did it again. Shock horror. Plus, as mentioned before, his plan to kidnap the wight lost us a dragon. When was the last time we saw Tyrion demonstrating his intelligence. Or even his wit?

As for Littlefinger, the evil Machiavelli. What did he do this season, except stand in the background looking significant? It was ok, his death, but hardly a shock or a thrill.

Yep, theon being Theon. More of the same.

And the Winter King looks silly on a dragon, I reckon.

I still enjoy the performances, but there was absolutely zero flair in the plotting or dialogue.

All good analysis and agree with all the points.

I think that's the problem with established cast in a tv show - you have to give them something to do or kill them off - so you end up inventing plots for them - I recall True Blood being awful for this and watching Originals at the moment and they keep having to find a plot for Cami.....

This season that's been the problem with Sam and family, Theon, Sansa, Littlefinger and others.

Bran is a simply awful creation - yeah I know everything - except when I don't , nah not going to tell you anything useful - URGGGHH -- He is a really terrible plot device which they seldom bother to utilise except for exposition and fan service.

A thing to remember is that Bran doesn't actually know everything. He has the means to get all the information, yes, but he still has to look for it. It also still takes time for him to find these events and watch them.

Made I laff.

please don't attach non wargaming images to Dakka, you need to link to an offsite host.
Reds8n

PTSD is NOT cowardice. Theon is NOT a coward.

You're all overlooking how Theon willingly fought in the naval battle, risking his life. He is no stranger to battle, and a reasonably capable fighter. If he'd been present at the Battle of the Bastards, I think he would have acquitted himself honourably.

It was only the prospect of capture and being tortured once again that triggered his PTSD and broke his nerve. Theon does not fear death, he fears torture.

Yeah, have to agree here.

I think best he can hope for is a noble sacrifice in some manner but he was put through the wringer.

And fair play to the actor, i think he's carried that part well -- his face/acting during that sea battle was really good IMO.

...

.. so I figure they'll do some sneaky rescue attempt, sorta succeed and the .. Golden Company ..?? or whatever --- will either not arrive or be "turned" to work against Cersei.

That said you don't see elephants fighting undead armies very often so I hope we get to see that whatever happens.

A thing to remember is that Bran doesn't actually know everything. He has the means to get all the information, yes, but he still has to look for it. It also still takes time for him to find these events and watch them

Maybe he should actually look for important things and if / when he finds them - tell someone!

The location of the Undead, what they are doing, if they are about to ambush and kill a dragon for instance is a bit more important at this point than what Sansa was wearing on a given night or Jon's parents - for all the fan squealing.

Remember he has had months sitting in his chair in Winterfell to find useful things and given them squat. Charles Xavier he ain;t. Dull exposition device he is.

Yeah, have to agree here.

I think best he can hope for is a noble sacrifice in some manner but he was put through the wringer.

And fair play to the actor, i think he's carried that part well -- his face/acting during that sea battle was really good IMO.

... .. so I figure they'll do some sneaky rescue attempt, sorta succeed and the .. Golden Company ..?? or whatever --- will either not arrive or be "turned" to work against Cersei.

That said you don't see elephants fighting undead armies very often so I hope we get to see that whatever happens.

I thought that the whole reaction to him being captured was really well done - on the other hand - they could have just left his story there, his men chuck him back overboard and sail on - Viking style raiders were not really accommodating of PTSD - they would see it (and are ) as
cowardice.

But he is a show regular - so need to give him a plot.

I think the Elephants are intended to be used against the Dothraki - historically they tend to cause havoc with cavalry (sight, smell, sound of them terrifies horses) so would be extremely effective against them.

 Mr Morden wrote:

A thing to remember is that Bran doesn't actually know everything. He has the means to get all the information, yes, but he still has to look for it. It also still takes time for him to find these events and watch them

Maybe he should actually look for important things and if / when he finds them - tell someone!

The location of the Undead, what they are doing, if they are about to ambush and kill a dragon for instance is a bit more important at this point than what Sansa was wearing on a given night or Jon's parents - for all the fan squealing.

Remember he has had months sitting in his chair in Winterfell to find useful things and given them squat. Charles Xavier he ain;t. Dull exposition device he is.

Yeah, have to agree here.

I think best he can hope for is a noble sacrifice in some manner but he was put through the wringer.

And fair play to the actor, i think he's carried that part well -- his face/acting during that sea battle was really good IMO.

... .. so I figure they'll do some sneaky rescue attempt, sorta succeed and the .. Golden Company ..?? or whatever --- will either not arrive or be "turned" to work against Cersei.

That said you don't see elephants fighting undead armies very often so I hope we get to see that whatever happens.

I thought that the whole reaction to him being captured was really well done - on the other hand - they could have just left his story there, his men chuck him back overboard and sail on - Viking style raiders were not really accommodating of PTSD - they would see it (and are ) as
cowardice.

But he is a show regular - so need to give him a plot.

I think the Elephants are intended to be used against the Dothraki - historically they tend to cause havoc with cavalry (sight, smell, sound of them terrifies horses) so would be extremely effective against them.

Winter though. snow is far south as kings landing. In the north its been snowing and winter for a entire season of the show.
they have a limited range. though keeeping a dothraki force fed and mounted mid winter aint easy too.

I was kinda working on the assumption that Bran has been telling people things off screen, albeit in broad brush strokes. EG, "so the dead are somewhere near-ish Eastwatch" - hence how Jon knew to look for them.

 Compel wrote:
I was kinda working on the assumption that Bran has been telling people things off screen, albeit in broad brush strokes. EG, "so the dead are somewhere near-ish Eastwatch" - hence how Jon knew to look for them.

Bran knew exactly where they were due to his flock of ravens - but apparently told no-one - likely still perving on his sister - Starks after all are on the few Houses without incest.

Why would he not tell them exactly where they were - unless he is actually not interested in the living anymore.

So Sansa is pissed that John is fething his Sister because Bran didn't tell him where the White Walkers were?

 d-usa wrote:
So Sansa is pissed that John is fething his Sister because Bran didn't tell him where the White Walkers were?

Er what - also Dany is not Jon's Sister

 Mr Morden wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So Sansa is pissed that John is fething his Sister because Bran didn't tell him where the White Walkers were?

Er what - also Dany is not Jon's Sister

Aunt... Not sister.
That's the lanisters.

And at this point admittedly t every noble house is related somewhere down the line. Between marriages and blood, many of the noble houses are at least distant relations.

We have no indication that Bran isn't telling anybody anything.

 d-usa wrote:
We have no indication that Bran isn't telling anybody anything.

Bran sees stuff - apparently - but when exactly has he told anyone anything of any actual use? Nearest he came was when he quoted Little Fingers words to Ned but even if he hadn't it would have made zero difference.

He is just an a rather dull exposition device.

Maybe not brother and sister, aunt and nephew, but most of European nobility had arranged relative marriages to cousins, etc.

 MDSW wrote:
Maybe not brother and sister, aunt and nephew, but most of European nobility had arranged relative marriages to cousins, etc.

True. Cousins and other less direct relations often married. What did not help was small pool, marriages. In the end alot would be related over time.

Egypt married closer at times . Old Egypt.
One dynasty even married to brother sister to keep the line "pure"

One euprooeen family married internally for 6 centuries over a larger but rather inbred gene pool. Hasburgs.

The whole semi incestuous nature of game of thrones is slightly based in real facts. Close marriage by choice or sheer fact everyone was related did happen.

Roberts Grandmother was a Targarian. All the houses are intermixed.

I think we can safely assume that Bran told his sisters quite a bit about Littlefinger offscreen, because Sansa knew some stuff she shouldn't have otherwise (that Littlefinger started the feud between the Lannisters and Starks and that the blade used in Bran's assassination attempt was really Littlefingers), and what Bran did say to Littlefinger in that 'hearing' didn't register any kind of surprise on Ayra or Sansa's faces.

He had definitely filled them in on whatever bits they didn't know.