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Hey there!

What Powerlevel would a 2000 Point list have? (roughly)

100

Not true i've made several 2000 points list that clock in over 100 PL, my last one was 125.

yup it is ~100 but there is a large swing on that value.

For instance it is easy to make a 100 power list that includes over 3000 points, and also easy to make one with under 1000 points.

It works pretty well for units with few or no upgrades, it really starts to fall apart on units that have a ton of upgrades.

Between ~75 and 150, depending on upgrades. Powerlevels are gakky at accounting for actual unit power.

It's not exact. 3PL can get you a 27 point Heavy Weapon Squad, or an 84 point Veteran squad.

So 100PL can be somewhere between 900 and 2800 points depending on which units you take and which options you take for those units.

 ross-128 wrote:
It's not exact. 3PL can get you a 27 point Heavy Weapon Squad, or an 84 point Veteran squad.

So 100PL can be somewhere between 900 and 2800 points depending on which units you take and which options you take for those units.

It can go higher or likely lower than that even. Really for PL to work people need to either both try to break it, or neither try to break it. If you just essentially bring what you would bring for points it works ok enough. If you try to go high on points you can get a ton.

yeah thats my issue.
with powerlevel I would only bring MP Crisis, but in points they are super expensive.
Was trying to figure out if my group should switch to Points or Powerlevel, but I guess with tryhards powerleve just wont work.

It doesn't vary as wildly as people suggest.

You'll be around 100 power, if you make a list that is concerned with actually playing games, and not "trying to exacerbate the delta between power & points."

"If you make a list without being a total powergamer, there won't be a problem"

And if your group is primarily powergamers? This "solution" isn't a solution for everyone, nad not really satisfactory for almost anyone.

There is a formula and it works 95% of the time.

You take a minimum unit and add its lowest points cost (standard wargear only) and highest points cost (fully upgraded) and average them.
Then divide by 20.



Players who add up their points and get a high PL are likely taking units that are not fully decked out. This allows you to squeeze in more units, thus higher PL
Players that have units that are closer to their highest PL are likely getting a lower PL

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Which also means armies that have a lot of upgrade options (like Space Marines) are at a very distinct advantage in powerlevel games, while armies without them (like Orks or Sisters) are at a very distinct disadvantage.

 Melissia wrote:
Which also means armies that have a lot of upgrade options (like Space Marines) are at a very distinct advantage in powerlevel games, while armies without them (like Orks or Sisters) are at a very distinct disadvantage.

Pretty much. I would add Daemons to the list at a disadvantage as they have very little to no upgrades and have their wargear included in their cost,
However, in PL games, Summoning is free....so that gives them a major advantage and incentive to play PL games instead of Points

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Using similarly equipped units built along the power level guidelines, yes, one power is mas-o-menos 20 points.

Note that this is a one way street. While most armies built to power level will convert reasonably well to points, armies constructed to points will not convert back to power level at the same exchange rate. Some people are ignoring this fact and continuing to whine on threads like this because they're not paying attention to this fact.

EDIT: Also, where does it say that summoning is free using power levels? I haven't seen this, and that sounds incorrect.

 Elbows wrote:

EDIT: Also, where does it say that summoning is free using power levels? I haven't seen this, and that sounds incorrect.

Reinforcement points are explicitly a points-based mechanic. If you want to houserule 'reinforcement power' you can, but it's not in the rules.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

EDIT: Also, where does it say that summoning is free using power levels? I haven't seen this, and that sounds incorrect.

Reinforcement points are explicitly a points-based mechanic. If you want to houserule 'reinforcement power' you can, but it's not in the rules.

Exactly this. the same goes for Split Horrors, that specifically have a note that in Matched Play, you must set aside Reinforcement points for each and every Horror
And even if you wanted to make a house rule for Split, that would not work very well for the small amount or models that get placed at a time, rather than whole units
A 2pt Brimstone horror would be about 0.1PL, after all.

Basically, you can't spend Reinforcement POINTS when POINTS are not being used, such as in Power Level games

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Which of course explains why so many Chaos players seem to be heavily invested in pushing power levels. :p

 ross-128 wrote:
Which of course explains why so many Chaos players seem to be heavily invested in pushing power levels. :p

Heck, I'm playing Chaos and Power Level and I'm paying for the daemons anyway.

No interest in free models. That's a gak rule loophole in my opinion.

 Marmatag wrote:
It doesn't vary as wildly as people suggest.

You'll be around 100 power, if you make a list that is concerned with actually playing games, and not "trying to exacerbate the delta between power & points."

Except it does. If you build a points list and convert it to power level, it works out just like you say, it is close. My 2k ork list is 120 PL. In theory (1PL = 20 points) that is a variation of 400 points. In reality to drop 20 PL, I end up dropping 250 points. So that isn't nothing, but it isn't 1000 points (my list is 1747). But that was a list built using points. If I build a list using power level, I think you will find the variance to be quite a bit larger. Especially when you have a lot of upgrade options. Building my Dark Angels list using PL I end up gaining 461 points in models and wargear that I cannot take otherwise. Because of course every sargent has a thunder hammer, and Combi-weapon, because why not, all the razorbacks have More expensive weapons (Assault cannons, could be even more if I wanted a few more lascannons), have storm bolters and HK missiles (because why not) my chaff scouts are 10 instead of 5, and have sniper rifles, cammo cloaks, and the sarge has a thunder hammer, and they have a missile launcher again because why not. This happens with pretty much any marine army you make because they typically have a bunch of upgrades that you never take because they cost points. Now a necron player on the other hand, doesn't get that benefit by and large because most of his squads lack upgrades and what does exist is either, not much help, or he was already taking it.

At PL marines outgun everyone... I had a 100PL game with a mate. He ran marines with plasma on everything, my sister's were no match... in the end there was a 350 point difference in the lists

Yeah that's about right. Marines just have vastly more options for upgrades than everyone else, including expensive yet powerful ones that make power levels cheesy.

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah that's about right. Marines just have vastly more options for upgrades than everyone else, including expensive yet powerful ones that make power levels cheesy.

...Yes and no. On one hand armies with more upgrades can spend more points when playing PL, but that's not always a good thing. If you try playing Grey Knights the PL costs assume you've got a Daemonhammer on everyone, so if you take an intelligent loadout (falchions) you're basically playing 10pts/model short, and if you're playing the Deathwatch they're assuming that every single T4/1W/3+ model costs 40pts (2PL), so you have to take maximum heavy weapons/storm shields/melee weapons on your power-armoured dudes or end up playing hundreds of points down. In both cases you end up with absurdly brittle lists full of 30+pt single-wound infantrymen.

So you're getting more points, yes, but if you go try and maximize your points/PL ratio assuming that's the only thing that determines whether you've got a strong list you may turn around and find you ended up with a terrible list anyway.

Necrons, with their total lack of any kind of options for 90% of their units, convert points and power almost perfectly. Compare that to a tau army of primarily battlesuits (something very likely to show up at my local store) with three hardpoints with dozens of options for each and suddenly im getting overpowered constantly.

 Melissia wrote:
"If you make a list without being a total powergamer, there won't be a problem"

And if your group is primarily powergamers? This "solution" isn't a solution for everyone, nad not really satisfactory for almost anyone.

What powergamer has enough plasma pistol/powerfist
sergeants or other wildly impractical loadouts to break powerlevels and still be wysiwyg? Do your tournaments with points and casual games with powerlevels and at the very least you'll know you won the moral victory from him spending two grand on magnets.

Aim for 100. PP have the cost of upgrades already built in, so just take what you want if it's on the list of available stuff.

Every list I've wrote 250pts works out at roughly 15 power.

So 2000 points would be 120 power roughly

As most have said, ~100 Power is typical.
That being said though, there are some lists that are way over that (and likely under, too). I made a tounament-legal 2000pt Daemon of Tzeentch list (with the goal of getting the most command points possible - which seems to be 18+D3 for Tzeentch Daemons) that came out to be 210 Power.

That's mainly because units of 1 Blue Horror & 9 Brimstone Horrors cost 23 points, while having a Power Level of 10. The list had 11 units of that composition in total.