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Drager wrote:
Statistical Army Rankings

Tier 1
Everyone Else

Tier 2
T'au

Let's hope Chapter Approved makes some serious changes to T'au!

 Astmeister wrote:
I just made one game yet:

Daemons of Tzeentch vs Thousand Sons (HA!): Loss

The fleshy upstarts dared to claim victory over the timeless ancients?

Updated. Imperial Guard are running away with the wins!

Are you sure you saved the updates? The numbers haven't changed when I copy pasted them into the stats checker.

Drager wrote:
Are you sure you saved the updates? The numbers haven't changed when I copy pasted them into the stats checker.

Bugger. Give me a second.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now it's updated.

Now we are seeing some more differentiation!

Guard are better than Blood Angels, Space Marines, Dark Angels, Orks, Deathguard and Tau.

World Eaters are better than Orks and Tau.

Sisters, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Dark Eldar and Thousand Sons are all better than Tau.

Everyone else is the same. I've ranked everyone below, but please note its an even fight unless you are fighting an army 5 or more ranks above you. So Tier 1 v Tier 4, perfectly even, anyone's game. This is probably the best thing about this edition the difference here is tiny. The best army vs the worst is still nowhere near a sure thing.

Rankings:

Top Tier
Guard

Tier 2
World Eaters

Tier 3
Sisters, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Dark Eldar and Thousand Sons

Tier 4
Imperial Knights, Daemons, Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos Space Marines, Harlequins, Ad Mech, Deathwatch

Tier 5
Blood Angels, Space Marines, Dark Angels, Death Guard

Tier 6
Orks

Tier 7
Tau

Drager wrote:
Now we are seeing some more differentiation!

Guard are better than Blood Angels, Space Marines, Dark Angels, Orks, Deathguard and Tau.

World Eaters are better than Orks and Tau.

Sisters, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Dark Eldar and Thousand Sons are all better than Tau.

Everyone else is the same. I've ranked everyone below, but please note its an even fight unless you are fighting an army 5 or more ranks above you. So Tier 1 v Tier 4, perfectly even, anyone's game. This is probably the best thing about this edition the difference here is tiny. The best army vs the worst is still nowhere near a sure thing.

Rankings:

Top Tier
Guard

Tier 2
World Eaters

Tier 3
Sisters, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Dark Eldar and Thousand Sons

Tier 4
Imperial Knights, Daemons, Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos Space Marines, Harlequins, Ad Mech, Deathwatch

Tier 5
Blood Angels, Space Marines, Dark Angels, Death Guard

Tier 6
Orks

Tier 7
Tau

And Tau Crush Orkz because they are the Ork hard counter So really Tier 6: Orkz and Tau

Not really. Orks have an even performance against Sisters, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Dark Eldar and Thousand Sons, Tau do not.

Drager wrote:
Not really. Orks have an even performance against Sisters, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Dark Eldar and Thousand Sons, Tau do not.

I am still in the boat of giving tau a bit of time to recognize that they can't bring 3 Riptides and win every game now. once they figure out their new roles and how to use the rules they will be back up to at least mid tier. So many bad players bought tau as power armies so its time to start to separate the wheat from the Chaff.

Oh I agree. Like I said the difference is really really small. I don't think Tau are bad, even as the worst. I would still say they are different to Orks though.

Just run the forgeworld riptide and you will do fine. It's obscene.

More results if you wanted to add them in. Stopped by the store yesterday after work. Had to stay late so didn't get to play myself but some of the results from last night.

winners in bold

guard (infantry) v Daemons
Primaris v Khorne (predominantly Bezerkers) (first game I've seen a majority Primaris army win)
Chaos (Khorne - mixed marines and daemons) v Marines
Eldar v Tau

I'm getting games in tonight and tomorrow evening so I'll be popping back in with more results in the next couple days like this

My results from the first local tournament I played in 8th Edition:
*Dark Eldar vs. Chaos Space Marines - Dark Eldar victory.
*Dark Eldar vs. Craftworld Eldar - Craftworld Eldar victory (because they went first ).
*Dark Eldar vs. Blood Angels - Dark Eldar victory.

i haven't played or seen many games in 8-th as i don't have a lot of spare time now but 5 of 5 games whoever went first won the game eventually. What if we also add statistics on 1-st turn? It can be really important and it's not that hard to write down. Can even be the key to future victories if it's such a huge factor as it seems.

 koooaei wrote:
i haven't played or seen many games in 8-th as i don't have a lot of spare time now but 5 of 5 games whoever went first won the game eventually. What if we also add statistics on 1-st turn? It can be really important and it's not that hard to write down. Can even be the key to future victories if it's such a huge factor as it seems.

Well so far I've played 8 games, here's what I've got:
When I went 1st: W4 D1 L1
When I went 2nd: W2 D0 L0

Maybe going first having more wins is more to do with those who go first having fewer more elite units or fewer extremely large units.

Couple of first friendly games of 8th:

Space Wolves vs Daemons -> SW victory
Space Wolves vs Eldar -> Eldar victory

I have a game to add in, but no idea how to classify it in the army categories.

Urien Rakath
7 Wracks
6 Talos
2 Wraithseers
3 Wraithlords

What is that?

Drukhari (DE) with some Asuryani (CWE).

Aeldari, really.

Drager wrote:
I have a game to add in, but no idea how to classify it in the army categories.

Urien Rakath
7 Wracks
6 Talos
2 Wraithseers
3 Wraithlords

What is that?

What on earth is a Urien Rakath and Wracks?

DEldar units.

Wracks:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Wracks-2014

Urien:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Dark-Eldar-Urien-Rakarth

Urien Rakarth is a DE special character. He's a super haemonculus, really tough, boosts the toughness of everyone around him, can reroll his invuln against attacks <S10. Wracks are DE troops. They are T5 (when near Urien) 5++ with 6+++. They can take Flamers, but are otherwise close combat only. That;s basically just a squad to fill out the remaining points and guard Urien. They are only 11 points each.

The list is pretty much 6 DE monsters and 5 CWE monsters. So do I record it as DE or CWE or what under the current way we are recording win/loss?

CWE vs Marines - CWE victory

CWE vs Wolves - dice hate CWE:
Fire Dragons + Shining Spears both in 6" range can't pop a Rhino
5 Wraithcannons with Guide cant finish a half-dead Rhino
Guided Reapers (4+Exarch) kill 1 Devestator
Fortuned Reapers in cover fail 2 of 4 wounds on a 2+
And the kicker... Jain Zar plus Banshees and Exarch lose to a Tac squad...

Wolves won.

Bharring wrote:

CWE vs Wolves - dice hate CWE:
Fire Dragons + Shining Spears both in 6" range can't pop a Rhino
5 Wraithcannons with Guide cant finish a half-dead Rhino
Guided Reapers (4+Exarch) kill 1 Devestator
Fortuned Reapers in cover fail 2 of 4 wounds on a 2+
And the kicker... Jain Zar plus Banshees and Exarch lose to a Tac squad...

And I thought MY rolling was bad!

 mrhappyface wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
i haven't played or seen many games in 8-th as i don't have a lot of spare time now but 5 of 5 games whoever went first won the game eventually. What if we also add statistics on 1-st turn? It can be really important and it's not that hard to write down. Can even be the key to future victories if it's such a huge factor as it seems.

Well so far I've played 8 games, here's what I've got:
When I went 1st: W4 D1 L1
When I went 2nd: W2 D0 L0

Maybe going first having more wins is more to do with those who go first having fewer more elite units or fewer extremely large units.

We were playing maelstorm and the first turn was decided with a die roll. But yeah, it probably makes a huge difference for some armies and doesn't really matter all that much for the others. If you're playing something extremely shooty, you benefit from the first turn a lot as you can remove the key elements of the opponent's army before he can even do anything. That's especially problematic for tac lists with a range of models performing different jobs. And that's the reason why skew lists - especially shooty ones - are usually superior to tac lists. For example, you've got a list of, say, 10 basilisks and 100 conscripts - will easilly fit in a 1850 game. Your main threat are ranged anti-tank weapons that can wreck your basilisks from afar. So, you concentrate fire on the opponent's ranged a-t elements and destroy them. So now he can't really hurt your main damage dealers. Or the infamous knight issue.

And all this stuff is heavilly affected by 1-st turn.

Imperial Guard vs. Orks - IG victory (overwhelmingly so)

My gaming group:

Sister's of Battle are 3-0
Orks are 1-4
Blood Angels 3-1
Blood Angels w/ Primaris 0-1
Space Wolves 2-0
Chaos Marines 0-3

I haven't pulled out the IG or the Dark Angels yet, but I think the lists I have will do well. One of my friends went to a small tournament and Grey Knights cleaned house.

Updated.

We tried the vanilla marines VS World eaters again ton9ght, with some list tweaks.
World eaters won but it was much closer than before. (i ended up winning only thanks to linebreaker and first blood)

 Neferhet wrote:
We tried the vanilla marines VS World eaters again ton9ght, with some list tweaks.
World eaters won but it was much closer than before. (i ended up winning only thanks to linebreaker and first blood)

What tweaks?

Finally got my first game of 8th in.

Tau vs Dark Angels - Dark Angels won, though only by a hair.

Tau are playing quite differently now compared to previous editions. I definitely see us keeping that losing record we currently have going on until the Tau playerbase adapts to the changes in our army.

ORKS v crons (PL50)
orks v CRONS (PL50)
NIDS v crons (PL50)
astramil v ELDAR(PL50)
DRUKHARI v orks (pt 2000)
nids v ORKS (PL100)

FarNorCal meta


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whats so great abouth the ghost keel?