Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Following on from the great advice in the Terminator Loadout thread, I thought I'd ask about advice and/or thoughts on the various Marine Characters and their loadouts, especially since Command Squads are no longer a thing.

So I'm wondering what people think about Apothecaries, Techmarines, Ancients, Chaplains, Librarians - how many are worth having, and what are good things to arm them with this edition?


I'm in the fortunate position of having a lot of models from years of collecting, as well as a deep bitz box, so I can make up any number of whatever pretty easily. I'd like to build at least one of each for this (and other) armies, and while I understand that optimising requires a bigger picture approach to army building, but I'm just getting general thoughts and do's and don'ts.

The army I'm working on right now is Minotaurs SM, so here's some context, but I'm mostly after advice on the above characters, since I'm also doing Dark Angels right now and will be doing 2-4 different codex chapters later as I sort out my older part-painted models, and eventually DA and SW:
As you can see, it's a long-term painting and collecting project without a defined end point in terms of models or points. But since 8th has me keen to play again after a long hiatus, it's time to work out what to give the force at this point in terms of independant characters, especially since I have none finished yet.


Painted:
Tac Squad with H Bolter/Plasma Sgt Power Fist/Storm Bolter
Tac Squad with ML/Flamer
Dread w/power fist/MM


Painting WIP
Terminator Squad w/2 chainfists, Assault cannon
Dev Squad w/2 Lascannon & 2ML
Chief Librarian w/staff & Bolt Pistol


Building WIP:
Captain w/storm shield & power axe (rule of cool model)
2x 5-man Intercessor Squads
5-man Helblaster Squad
Primaris Ancient
Primaris Captain



Planned - models bought, need assembly and options worked out:
Probably 2 Primaris Lts and the Inceptors
Vanguard Squad
Sternguard Squad
Assault Squad
Tartaros Assault Squad
Contemptor (x2?)
Asterion (Lord)
Enkomi (Chaplain)
Hekaton (Contemptor)
LR of some sort
LR Achilles
Spartan


Veterans? (Probably just use the VG/SG instead)
Transports?
Centurions?
Other Tanks?
Dreads?
FW Dreads?
Maybe the new Skull-mask guys

I think Librarians in Terminator Armor are actually pretty good in the current edition. They can take a Storm Shield, and have a 2+/3++ and 5 wounds. With a Force Axe, they can be reasonable in close combat, and be plenty survivable.

Cheap Captains are solid right now too. Keep the points down (since the re-roll aura is the main benefit) but Relic Blades are pretty good right now, and it can make the Captain pretty formidable in combat.

If you're taking assault terminators or assault centurions, a Chaplain in Terminator Armor is reasonable. Close combat re-rolls help a lot with "unwieldy" weapons to increase your total hits. A squad of TH/SS Terminators accompanied by a Chaplain can actually do a pretty serious amount of damage in close combat.

Captains are pretty much always good. And both Librarians and Chaplains can be good if you use them with the right support.

If you can bubblewrap a librarian i'm not sure i think he terminator armour is worth it, sure snipers can get you but company command squads can mitigate that greatly bu the armour now costs an absolute BOMB to equip him with and half the time he can't be targeted anyway, if you're going to get then there is no reason not to take he stormshield though.

Chaplains, Apothecaries, and Techmarines are imho all in the same boat of having specific roles, chaplains are now fantastic assault support guys (and not bad fighters with a power fist now finally too), Apohecaris shouldn' be wasted on reviving tacticals, they're there to support centurions , characters etc and lastly the techmarine is a wound buffer for tanks that are already difficult to kill htis edition.

Thanks - any advice on loadout for the Tech or Apothecary? I recall advice from a couple of editions ago to give the Techmarine a combi-flamer. With flamers being pretty good in this edition, is that still viable advice, or should the techmarine be in a different role now? (and should I build some servitors to go with?)

Apothecaries don’t have a whole lot of options. But the bike is probably worth it. Gets you to the guys who need to be patched up, makes you a bit tougher.

Techmarine has a lot of options. Again, a bike is probably a good call. He’s got a BS of 2+, so giving him guns is going to get good results. I fielded my with a c-beamer, and it seemed OK. Short game though, so I didn’t get a lot of experience with it unfortunately.

Patching up tanks is the same, no mater what your gear is.

He has no invuln, and the option to take a lot of toys. So his point value could get rather high, rather fast. and still get popped with a lucky shot or two.

If you want to push forward agressively, go for the harness, and maybe a combi weapon or storm bolter, depending on how many points you want to sink. If you want to hand back and just patch up tanks in the backfield, take the c-beamer.

I can’t think of a good use for servitors. Unless you are desperate for another elite pick for some reason, and don’t have a lot of points. Or really like the way they look. But they strike me as hot garbage. If you want to baby sit them with a tech, then they might function as barely adequate guardsmen. But their one valid role in the last edition (IMHO, the boost to repair rolls) is gone.

If the apothecary is going to go with terminators or honour guard
etc in a vehicle then imho that is the only time he really shouldn't be on a bike, the speed alone is worth it.

Techmarine is a weird one since his best use is to sit with a vehicle gunline and the harness is pretty expensive for a load of weapons. If you were wanting to have multiple dreads then i'd put him as an autoinclude and if you're wanting to be aggressive with them i'd take the harness, same if you were going with razorbacks and doing the same. Also the combi-flamer and combi-plasma are both imho worth taking, the first means he's know got 2 flamers which is great for dealing with charging units and the plasma is going to hit most of the time with his great BS

In general I would say if the characters are in the back supporting shooting units, they don't need anything except maybe a power weapon if you have the extra points.

If they are moving forward, then I'd give them a power weapon and either a storm bolter or a combi-weapon. Probably Grav or Plasma.

Terminator armor is decent and does make them much harder to kill, so it's a viable option if you think they will be getting in close combat (the only time they are likely to be targeted), but otherwise i'd leave it out.

I could see giving a tech marine a bike if you have a lot of dreads or vehicles that might not be that close together, or a chaplain equivalent on a bike if you have a lot of non-marine assault units in your army (more a space wolf / blood angels thing than a space marine thing). The apothecary on a bike could also be good if you think he will want to move around a lots, but i's think he would normally just heal the same unit over and over (cent devs, terminators, etc).

Following up on this, I've got a Captain model armed with a Power Axe. I'd initially been running him in friendlies with a Storm Shield, because it suited the model and rule of cool. Now I've finally been working on finishing the build, and decided to magnetise the shield because it'll otherwise obscure half of the paint work I've been doing on the captain, so I'm going to sort out an alternative weapon to magnetise in sometimes.

Any suggestions for an effective choice of shooting weapon?

Storm Bolters don't suck now, so that's nice and they look good. You probably want the Combi-Plasma though if you're wanting more danger.

I personally have enjoyed The Primarchs Wrath. It's a good weapon.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Storm Bolters don't suck now, so that's nice and they look good. You probably want the Combi-Plasma though if you're wanting more danger.

I personally have enjoyed The Primarchs Wrath. It's a good weapon.

Agreed with all of this. I've had success with most of the Captain's ranged weapon options. Solo, or with a bolter-centric squad the Storm Bolter has been good. If he'll be accompanying a group with specialized weapons, giving the Captain a matching Combi-weapon is also a fine option. Or giving him a cheap MCB and upgrading it to the relic Bolter is quite solid. The Primarch's Wrath is a really solid gun, and pairs well with most squad's shooting output since it's pretty good against everything.

This particular model has a power axe as part of the cast, so I've been using him with the axe and storm shield via the index and he's been a bit of a CC beast. I've since "upgraded" the axe to a relic blade, so I can see him usually getting in close. Combi-Melta perhaps? Or the Plasma still better because of rapid fire and re-rolling ones?

I'll probably model The Primarch's Wrath as well. If I'm doing 2 loadouts, I may as well do 3. Any good ideas for weapons to use for TPW? My first thought was the fancy, master-crafted-looking bolter with the textured plates on the side, but that may not be fancy enough for one of Bobby G's armoury pieces..

I run my Captain with just a Storm Bolter and Power Sword. He rarely goes forward into the front lines anymore. That's what the Chaplain is for. The Captain has just been used to spread his buff aura out as far as possible now.

I think less is more when it comes to spending points on SM characters. Usually it's better to buy other units for your HQs to buff, imo.

Some upgrades i do consider if i have extra points:

- Force axe on a librarian
- Thunder hammer on a captain
- Storm bolters on BS2 characters
- Combi weapon on BS2 characters
- Power sword or axe on HQs.

Its also worth noting you can take a cheap chain sword HQ and then spend CP giving them the teeth of terra if the match up looks like you'll be getting into combat. This is free and the weapon is quite good.

You only spend command points if you're planning on more than 1 relic.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You only spend command points if you're planning on more than 1 relic.

Sure, but I'd never take a situational relic as my free one.

jcd386 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You only spend command points if you're planning on more than 1 relic.

Sure, but I'd never take a situational relic as my free one.

It's just one command point to make that generic HQ more awesome. A Biker Captain with the Teeth of Terra and Stormbolter is super cheap to add after all!

I like the teeth of terra. It's decent against any target and it's free because it replaces a chainsword.

The crimson fist power fist is another really great option, if you happen to play crimson fists. If you can get hold of the birthday primaris captain, it's not a bad option at all.

Even if your army is intended to stay back and shoot I'd always equip a captain for assault. Give him some kind of gun of course, but his profile kind of demands a weapon to hit people with. You won't regret it when the enemy comes to charge you.

I'm thinking ultramarines primaris captain with stalker bolter at the back with hellblasters with Santic halo and a relic blade with the ultramarine warlord trait

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
I'm thinking ultramarines primaris captain with stalker bolter at the back with hellblasters with Santic halo and a relic blade with the ultramarine warlord trait

Primaris captains aren't allowed relic blades I'm afraid.

Oh yeah forgot. Just a power sword then. Was then going to have a gravis captain moving up field with a unit of aggressors and give him the burning blade

I typically run 4-5 characters. Captain, Lieutenant, Apothecary, and Ancient. Here are the ways I load-out my guys:

Captain - Power Sword and either a plasma/grav pistol or a Storm Bolter/Master-crafted Boltgun.

Lieutenant - I have 3 load-outs depending on my list. Jump pack with Power Axe and Plasma/Grav pistol, Power Fist with Plamsa/Grav pistol (Crimson Fists), or cheap with a Chainsword and Master-crafted Boltgun/Storm Bolter.

Chaplain - I keep him simple. I will do either a basic with a Plasma/grav pistol to go in a transport with a melee unit, or I do one with a Jump Pack and a Power Fist.

Librarian - Force Axe and Plasma/Grav pistol and maybe a jump pack. I often take the Force Sword instead of the Axe because of my model, but this is actually better if you are planning on Might of the Ancients being used on the Librarian.

Techmarine - I think this guy is a trap. I leave him the wy the model comes with a Servo Arm and Power Axe. I consider a Combi weapon, but that's it. He's there to repair tanks.

Ancient - Cheap with a boltgun usually. Chainsword is another good option.

Apothecary - IIRC it doesn't have any options.

That is how I run them, though I do see value in Terminator armor for a lot of them depending on your delivery and list. Characters for Space Marines are force multipliers and last ditch defence against the assault IMO, so that's how I put them to use. I also use Primaris equivalents for all of these as well, once again depending on the list.