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Some screenshots of the video

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2381

 Crazyterran wrote:
3+ Save, T7?

Missile Launchers, Lascannons, readyyyyy... aiiiiiimmmm...

That is a lot of lascannons. 18 wounds, effectively 27 after the resilience rolls. That is, what, 8 lascannons on average. With a 4+ invulnerable that is 16 wounding lascannons, which needed a 3+ to wound so 24 hits. Fired from a BS3+ force is 36 lascannons shot.

Not familar with Magnus and any special stuff he gets, but on raw stats he is also T7 and 18 wounds with a 4+ invulnerable, but no resilience. That seems to make Mortarian quite a bit tougher to kill than Magnus in terms of raw firepower.

 mrhappyface wrote:
And even if he doesn't have access to it, what's to stop you taking a sorcerer from C:CSM?

So another hundred points and an allied detachment just to make the already absurdly expensive unit not awful? How good do you expect silence to be exactly? You could probably take a sorcerer and unit of 10 slaanesh plasma terminators for roughly the same price and erase multiple units of MEQ or TEQ.

Morty, along with a lot of the new stuff in our codex, is likely going to be overpriced. Just like our index was. Because they continue to overvalue certain elements, particularly the value of toughness or toughness lowering abilities I'd say. That's okay though, prices can and will be adjusted with chapter approved. Gives us all a bit of time to save up for and paint morty before he is worth actually using.

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
About the access of Warp Time
The White Dwarf entry of Datacards: Death Guard said the set contains 7 psychic powers. So either the Contagion discipline will get additional spells (which i doubt) or DG will be able to use the vanilla CSM disciple

Well yes of course it will. But why would contagion get warptime? I suppose it'd be easier and would make more sense given our index army had access to both the three generic CSM powers and our unique three, but honestly I'm not holding my breath.

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
About the access of Warp Time
The White Dwarf entry of Datacards: Death Guard said the set contains 7 psychic powers. So either the Contagion discipline will get additional spells (which i doubt) or DG will be able to use the vanilla CSM disciple

One of those cards is Smite, so that leaves six powers. They very well could be all new. We will have to see.

I'm disappointed so far. Morty is more expensive than Magnus, far less mobility, arguably the same or less durability (Magnus can have 3++ rerolling 1s and is -1 to hit near changeling), and auras seem good but not great. I'm hoping his melee weapon, psychic powers, and stratagems are good.

puree wrote:
That is a lot of lascannons. 18 wounds, effectively 27 after the resilience rolls. That is, what, 8 lascannons on average. With a 4+ invulnerable that is 16 wounding lascannons, which needed a 3+ to wound so 24 hits. Fired from a BS3+ force is 36 lascannons shot.

Not familar with Magnus and any special stuff he gets, but on raw stats he is also T7 and 18 wounds with a 4+ invulnerable, but no resilience. That seems to make Mortarian quite a bit tougher to kill than Magnus in terms of raw firepower.

Well his aura lets him reroll invulnerable saves of 1, which isn't as good as DR, puts him at around 28 lascannons shot. But again, morty costs 60 more points, is slower, and can't use warptime.

Magnus is as tough as he needs to be for his cost considering 32" move and 7" charge means he can reliably get into melee turn 1. Morty is 12" move, so not even half what Magnus can do. That's a lot more time being targeted by lascannons, and the expected difference is only 8 shots....

 Crazyterran wrote:
3+ Save, T7?

Missile Launchers, Lascannons, readyyyyy... aiiiiiimmmm...

You said missile, instead of rocket. Now it's going to miss. Always does when you call it a missile.

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
About the access of Warp Time
The White Dwarf entry of Datacards: Death Guard said the set contains 7 psychic powers. So either the Contagion discipline will get additional spells (which i doubt) or DG will be able to use the vanilla CSM disciple

You doubt they would add 3 additional powers to the Contagion Discipline (like they did with Dark Hereticus), but assume instead that they'd just toss the Contagion Discipline out entirely and give Death Guard the same powers as regular CSM? Did it make more sense when you typed it?

I'd be shocked if the 7 book powers weren't Smite, the 3 Contagion powers we've had already, plus three new ones for a full, expanded Discipline. Could be as simple as porting over the powers from the Nurgle Daemons psychic discipline, but that might be a bit lazy. However, Death Guard (and by extension Mortarion) getting access to Fleshy Abundance would be pretty great.

On the Mortarion durability front, since he'll presumably have access to the Contagion Discipline, being able to cast Miasma of Pestilence on himself is a plus. As long as they spell goes off, that essentially gives him the same durability as Magnus within range of the Changeling, and he takes his -1 to hit with him. Speaking of auras, I'm certainly hoping Mortarion has some benefit for Death Guard and their Disgustingly Resilient rolls, as Magnus does with Thousand Sons and re-rolling 1's on their Invuls. That, plus any other potential new Contagion spell buffs could help his durability out, and certainly a Daemon Prince following behind Morty casting Fleshy Abundance each turn would not be remiss. I am also in the camp of being somewhat disappointed with his stock durability (T8 or a few more wounds than Magnus seemed a reasonable expectation), but still hopeful that there's more potential there that just hasn't been previewed yet. We shall see....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
Well his aura lets him reroll invulnerable saves of 1, which isn't as good as DR

Until you cast Weaver of Fates on him, then that re-roll 1's pushes him past Disgustingly Resilient.

While it'd be hilarious, I can't imagine morty having a third aura on top of his toughness decreasing and mortal wounds auras.

On the other hand, given we've seen a plague chemist character and an apothecary type character, we will almost certainly have access to some sort of character buff to DR.

And yes you are correct, but I was ignoring the psychic defense buffs (+1 inv and -1 shooting) for both characters, given it more or less results in the same gap between them I think.

Sokhar wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
About the access of Warp Time
The White Dwarf entry of Datacards: Death Guard said the set contains 7 psychic powers. So either the Contagion discipline will get additional spells (which i doubt) or DG will be able to use the vanilla CSM disciple

You doubt they would add 3 additional powers to the Contagion Discipline (like they did with Dark Hereticus), but assume instead that they'd just toss the Contagion Discipline out entirely and give Death Guard the same powers as regular CSM? Did it make more sense when you typed it?

I'd be shocked if the 7 book powers weren't Smite, the 3 Contagion powers we've had already, plus three new ones for a full, expanded Discipline. Could be as simple as porting over the powers from the Nurgle Daemons psychic discipline, but that might be a bit lazy. However, Death Guard (and by extension Mortarion) getting access to Fleshy Abundance would be pretty great.

On the Mortarion durability front, since he'll presumably have access to the Contagion Discipline, being able to cast Miasma of Pestilence on himself is a plus. As long as they spell goes off, that essentially gives him the same durability as Magnus within range of the Changeling, and he takes his -1 to hit with him. Speaking of auras, I'm certainly hoping Mortarion has some benefit for Death Guard and their Disgustingly Resilient rolls, as Magnus does with Thousand Sons and re-rolling 1's on their Invuls. That, plus any other potential new Contagion spell buffs could help his durability out, and certainly a Daemon Prince following behind Morty casting Fleshy Abundance each turn would not be remiss. I am also in the camp of being somewhat disappointed with his stock durability (T8 or a few more wounds than Magnus seemed a reasonable expectation), but still hopeful that there's more potential there that just hasn't been previewed yet. We shall see....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
Well his aura lets him reroll invulnerable saves of 1, which isn't as good as DR

Until you cast Weaver of Fates on him, then that re-roll 1's pushes him past Disgustingly Resilient.

What I meant was that I think we'll either get Smite, the 3 old Contagion spells and 3 new Contagion spells OR Smite, the 3 old Contagion spells plus 3 Dark Hereticus spells, which could include Warp Time. Hope that clears things up

I'm 100% sure they'll have their own powers unique from heretic marines. I'm also sure that when the thousand sons book comes out Magnus will lose access to them.

So much conjecture and wild statements like mine being thrown about just chillax and see how it lands.

SilverAlien wrote:
While it'd be hilarious, I can't imagine morty having a third aura on top of his toughness decreasing and mortal wounds auras.

Three different aura effects WOULD be kinda strange, but probably even stranger for a Primarch to have no actual synergy with the Legion he leads, don't you think? Obviously I'm just speculating, but I'll remain hopeful that he has some sort of buffing ability for Death Guard, and that he's not just a beatstick purely.

Sokhar wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
While it'd be hilarious, I can't imagine morty having a third aura on top of his toughness decreasing and mortal wounds auras.

Three different aura effects WOULD be kinda strange, but probably even stranger for a Primarch to have no actual synergy with the Legion he leads, don't you think? Obviously I'm just speculating, but I'll remain hopeful that he has some sort of buffing ability for Death Guard, and that he's not just a beatstick purely.

Well the toughness decreasing aura would be indirect synergy, making enemies easier for his army to wound. Arguably makes sense for him to give indirect buffs considering he wasn't much of a leader and generally pushed his men towards self reliance. From what I understand this got even worse when they fell and he got warpified. So I can see some justification for it.

Honestly though, I'm waiting to see if there is anything about him that justifies his price tag. So far it doesn't look it, but another aura, or a unique ability, or absurd wargear could all be what makes him good.

Dudeface wrote:
I'm 100% sure they'll have their own powers unique from heretic marines. I'm also sure that when the thousand sons book comes out Magnus will lose access to them.

So much conjecture and wild statements like mine being thrown about just chillax and see how it lands.

Tbf, we are starved for things to discuss so everything is being analyzed.

As for Magnus losing access to warptime eventually, that's fair. The problem is, that's a cornerstone of what makes Magnus worth taking so it still doesn't really help make morty look any better. Just arguing they both might be bad eventually.

SilverAlien wrote:

Sokhar wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
While it'd be hilarious, I can't imagine morty having a third aura on top of his toughness decreasing and mortal wounds auras.

Three different aura effects WOULD be kinda strange, but probably even stranger for a Primarch to have no actual synergy with the Legion he leads, don't you think? Obviously I'm just speculating, but I'll remain hopeful that he has some sort of buffing ability for Death Guard, and that he's not just a beatstick purely.

Well the toughness decreasing aura would be indirect synergy, making enemies easier for his army to wound. Arguably makes sense for him to give indirect buffs considering he wasn't much of a leader and generally pushed his men towards self reliance. From what I understand this got even worse when they fell and he got warpified. So I can see some justification for it.

Honestly though, I'm waiting to see if there is anything about him that justifies his price tag. So far it doesn't look it, but another aura, or a unique ability, or absurd wargear could all be what makes him good.

Dudeface wrote:
I'm 100% sure they'll have their own powers unique from heretic marines. I'm also sure that when the thousand sons book comes out Magnus will lose access to them.

So much conjecture and wild statements like mine being thrown about just chillax and see how it lands.

Tbf, we are starved for things to discuss so everything is being analyzed.

As for Magnus losing access to warptime eventually, that's fair. The problem is, that's a cornerstone of what makes Magnus worth taking so it still doesn't really help make morty look any better. Just arguing they both might be bad eventually.

Yeah I appreciate that, it's just some people are far too quick to fire from the hip with only a small fraction of knowledge, the whole picture may be totally different.

From the various screenshots and things shown so far, I'm glad to see that Mortarion isn't nearly as tall as Magnus turned out to be. Excluding the wings, Mortarion is roughly 6 3/4" at the top of that spike. Meanwhile Magnus can't even hide himself behind an imperial knight. The only issue would come down to the wings, which seem rather large. Too bad things are true LoS in 8th. In 7th Mort might have had an enormous advantage.

So um... do we know if this "Foulspawn" character is the same as that cultist that became a chaos spawn before becoming a daemon prince, or is GW just forgetting they already had a character named Foulspawn?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Foulspawn

The toughness debuff could potentially be pretty potent; it makes Blight Launchers and Flails of Corruption wound medium vehicles on 4's and MEQ's on 2's. Add in the plague weapon rule for reroll 1's and your plague marines are pretty lethal.

Arachnofiend wrote:
The toughness debuff could potentially be pretty potent; it makes Blight Launchers and Flails of Corruption wound medium vehicles on 4's and MEQ's on 2's. Add in the plague weapon rule for reroll 1's and your plague marines are pretty lethal.

things will be dying left, right and center

@Arachnofiend: But you have to get real close to be that lethal. And the DG aren´t really mobile and flexible in their fluff. So how will we get to the enemy and make sure, that he stays where he is?
I can´t wait to see the options to get the forces moving on the board.

 Papa-Schlumpf wrote:
@Arachnofiend: But you have to get real close to be that lethal. And the DG aren´t really mobile and flexible in their fluff. So how will we get to the enemy and make sure, that he stays where he is?
I can´t wait to see the options to get the forces moving on the board.

Mortarion has to be within 7".
He has Movement 12" when at full strength and will likely have Fly.

I don't think it will be a huge problem getting him into position.

There will probably be some special rule called 'Primarch of the Death Guard' that will give him a buff of sorts, possibly +1 to Disgustingly Resilient or something that makes him tankier than he appears right now.

I don't think they would reveal all the rules for him so he may have a few tricks up his sleeve yet.

 Frozocrone wrote:
There will probably be some special rule called 'Primarch of the Death Guard' that will give him a buff of sorts, possibly +1 to Disgustingly Resilient or something that makes him tankier than he appears right now.

I don't think they would reveal all the rules for him so he may have a few tricks up his sleeve yet.

Now if he got that as an aura affect...

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
There will probably be some special rule called 'Primarch of the Death Guard' that will give him a buff of sorts, possibly +1 to Disgustingly Resilient or something that makes him tankier than he appears right now.

I don't think they would reveal all the rules for him so he may have a few tricks up his sleeve yet.

Now if he got that as an aura affect...

Death Guard would be deadly and I might consider selling my small Thousand Sons army for Death Guard.

My main point is that people seem to be jumping the gun and yet it's clear (if the lack of weapon stats didn't tip people off) that not everything for Mortarion has been released.

Well... because we don't expect him to have 6 special rules. Because that's kinda silly. He's got death to emps, DR, the two different auras, and whatever confers his invulnerable save and is a psyker.

Yes he could have even more stuff on top of that, but we've probably seen the extent of his special abilities and they are very meh. Silence is the only real saving grace I can see.

So, what exactly is it that makes him worse than Magnus?

Magnus can do a lot of mortal wounds, sure, but that's to 1 unit. This aura that Mortarion has is effectively 7" Orbital bombardment each turn. D3 mortal wounds to every unit within range on a 4+ could be very deadly, especially as it's in addition to his spells and weapon attacks. The -1 toughness to all enemies within 7" is very powerful as well. That considerably ups the potential of all his men shooting at things close by. So his auras seem pretty epic to me.

Magnus has a spell to up his invuln, but what says the new DG discipline won't have a new spell which ups DR by 1? And warp time on Magnus smells like strong cheese to me and not a total necessity to make these units good. The 18W and T7 and 4++ and 5+++ seems quite tough to me. 12" movement is pretty fast also. And we haven't even seen his Weapon profiles yet or stratagems that may potentially be really powerful when paired with Mortarion.

So I guess, if we're going by what we've seen, he's not as good as Magnus, but that's because in the current stats we've been shown, Morty doesn't have weapons or accompanying stratagems or powers.

Poor mobility+being a a huge target+ only useful in melee range (even his auras are all in charge range)+not even that durable for his cost.

He isn't bad, but even if he has insane killing power I don't see much use for him. He costs a ton and will need more support to even be useful.

I think Mortarion wants to get stuck into close combat and stay there. He is probably happiest when he charges into the thick of enemy lines and has enough enemy models such that he is fighting every turn. When stuck in combat, he can't be targeted by shooting, and so that's the safest for him. Of course, there is suck a thing as falling back unfortunately ...

Mortarion can cause a heck of a lot of mortal wounds if he is charging into an Azreal or Gulliman parking lot. Of course, he will need to get there first, given he will be vulnerable to shooting while he moves up the board.

But he will almost certainly have DR, or maybe even an improved version of DR. And nurgle can heal. So, with the proper support, he can withstand a lot of ranged fire.

Don't forget that he isn't the only thing in a DG army. If you are gonna use up all of your ranged shooting on Mortarion, that means nothing else in the DG army is going to be shot at. In Rhinos, even the slow plague marines will be in combat by turn two.

I think everyone is jumping to conclusions. He has phosphex bombs and the nurglins with him also attack. We don't know what lantern and silence do. We don't know what stratagems we have, we don't know the powers he has access too. That is a lot of factors that can change him. To say he is bad based on a small amount of information is ignorant. Also, I think people forget that there is allying in this game which shores up weaknesses. gak you can ally with Nurgle and cast fleshy abundance. Honestly, I think Morty has about the same survivability that Magnus has. Magnus is a bit better, based on the information we have.

Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.