How many deployment 'drops' is your 2k list?

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**Rubenite**

With the changes made to determining who takes the first turn, I'm wondering what is the 'average' number of deployment drops expected in a 2K list. Add how many drops your list(s) has to the poll. If it varies, you can select multiple answers.

To be clear, a deployment 'drop' is when you place a unit on the table during deployment, or in 'deep strike' reserve equivalent. This is usually one unit per drop, but be aware that deploying units inside a transport counts as just a single drop. Also be aware that foot slogging characters can quickly make this number go up.

Obviously armies like Imperial Guard are going to always have a very high number of drops (and can only hope for a seize, which they will usually have a spare CP to reroll) - likewise Imperial Knight lists will have 4-5 drops and will undoubtedly always expect to go first.

For discussion - is number of drops something you are considering when list building, or ignoring altogether?

**Nevelon**

The last game I played (vs. my son) I had 11 drops to his 9. 2k lists.

Both very mechanized lists, I was playing my Eldar, while he was building from my Ultras.

**jcd386**

I range from 8-10, mostly. Usually with 4 transports to put characters and 3-4 other units in to reduce my drops to that number.

**Arachnofiend**

The list I'm running right now is 10, which I think based on other armies I've seen is pretty close to typical for armies that aren't deliberately low drop count or playing hordes.

**SarisKhan**

I consider and try to limit the number of drops in my list, such as putting units into transports and fielding larger units instead of MSU. With their relatively low points costs DE can put a lot of stuff into a list, though. So far I've always spent a CP re-roll on Seize the Initiative in games where I had more drops than the opponent (and have yet to succeed

).

**Thud**

My proper Harlequin list is 11ish drops (depends on how many characters start inside transports).

My joke Space Marines list is 3 drops.

**vipoid**

Let me express the number of drops in my IG army as a sentence:

"I am never going first."

**IandI**

Pretty much every Dark Angel or SoB list I've written that I liked was in the low to mid teens. My IG list is like over 20. In 4 games of 8th I've only finished deployment first one time. 10-11 seems to be the average for my opponent's.

**Cephalobeard**

29.

I will never go first.

**necron99**

I'm playing an IG list tonight with 21 drops and an additional 8 in reserve...I never get the +1 to go first unless I play @CephalobeardMade :(

**Deathypoo**

necron99 wrote:
I'm playing an IG list tonight with 21 drops and an additional 8 in reserve...I never get the +1 to go first unless I play @CephalobeardMade :(

That's actually 29 drops. Units in a transport don't count (or to be clear, they count all as one drop with the transport) but units in reserve are "placed" by declaring that they're in reserve. This means you can spend 8 turns in a row "placing" those reserve units, and essentially see your enemy's entire deployment before you start yours. It's not a bad trade... basically work how it did in last edition for you, and I have no idea why they changed it.

**vipoid**

Deathypoo wrote:
necron99 wrote:
I'm playing an IG list tonight with 21 drops and an additional 8 in reserve...I never get the +1 to go first unless I play @CephalobeardMade :(

That's actually 29 drops. Units in a transport don't count (or to be clear, they count all as one drop with the transport) but units in reserve are "placed" by declaring that they're in reserve. This means you can spend 8 turns in a row "placing" those reserve units, and essentially see your enemy's entire deployment before you start yours. It's not a bad trade... basically work how it did in last edition for you, and I have no idea why they changed it.

Wouldn't you have to have units on the field first though? Given that you have to have at least half your army on the field, I'd have thought that you'd have to have 8 units on the field before you could put 8 units into reserve.

**Cephalobeard**

Negative. You can put things into reserve in whatever order.

**Galef**

I have to say, this is something I do not like about 8E.
Some armies are put at a distinct disadvantage by not going first. This becomes a big problem combined with the morale system forcing those armies to play MSU

A personal example is my Eldar bike/skimmer playstyle. I rely on MSU, which has its strengths, yet going second has never been a great thing, Eldar in the past have even had Reserve mitigation to encourage Alpha-strike tactics, yet we now don't even have enough units that can even "reserve"
The playstyle has dramatically changed, yet unlike Guard, Nids and Daemons, the "I will never go first" isn't a viable option....ever

We have fragile units that cost a lot. Going second guarantees the enemy will get first blood and will cripple our fire power. It will force armies like Flyer Spam, Wraith Spam or the toxic list showing up at ITC with 150+ Razorwing Flocks

-

**Da-Rock**

Help:

Where does it show the "deployment who goes first depending on drops". I can't find it.

**vipoid**

Galef wrote:
I have to say, this is something I do not like about 8E.
Some armies are put at a distinct disadvantage by not going first. This becomes a big problem combined with the morale system forcing those armies to play MSU

A personal example is my Eldar bike/skimmer playstyle. I rely on MSU, which has its strengths, yet going second has never been a great thing, Eldar in the past have even had Reserve mitigation to encourage Alpha-strike tactics, yet we now don't even have enough units that can even "reserve"
The playstyle has dramatically changed, yet unlike Guard, Nids and Daemons, the "I will never go first" isn't a viable option....ever

We have fragile units that cost a lot. Going second guarantees the enemy will get first blood and will cripple our fire power. It will force armies like Flyer Spam, Wraith Spam or the toxic list showing up at ITC with 150+ Razorwing Flocks

-

I don't like it because it's a lot of unnecessary faffing in a game that's supposed to be more streamlined. It saves a lot of time if you have one player set up their whole army and then the other player set up their whole army and the one who sets up first then goes first.

**gatebuster202**

Alternating drops is fine, if we rolled off for the turn. I'm dropping, 14 units in a 2k Death Guard list I'm working on, while my Fast and Furious Tson list looks to be 10 or so. (5 of which happen to be very large daemon engines and then Magnus.)

**Rubenite**

Da-Rock wrote:
Help:

Where does it show the "deployment who goes first depending on drops". I can't find it.

Check the second paragraph of the 'Deployment' section of any of the individual Maelstrom/Eternal War scenario pages

**pismakron**

vipoid wrote:
Let me express the number of drops in my IG army as a sentence:

"I am never going first."

With a command reroll you have a 30.5% chance of seizing the initiative. So mutilating your list in order to get fewer drops seems a bad idea. Even high-drop armies will go first quite regularly.

**luke1705**

Literally shocked at how even this distribution is

**pismakron**

Galef wrote:
I have to say, this is something I do not like about 8E.
Some armies are put at a distinct disadvantage by not going first. This becomes a big problem combined with the morale system forcing those armies to play MSU

A personal example is my Eldar bike/skimmer playstyle. I rely on MSU, which has its strengths, yet going second has never been a great thing, Eldar in the past have even had Reserve mitigation to encourage Alpha-strike tactics, yet we now don't even have enough units that can even "reserve"
The playstyle has dramatically changed, yet unlike Guard, Nids and Daemons, the "I will never go first" isn't a viable option....ever

We have fragile units that cost a lot. Going second guarantees the enemy will get first blood and will cripple our fire power. It will force armies like Flyer Spam, Wraith Spam or the toxic list showing up at ITC with 150+ Razorwing Flocks

-

1) Use line of sight blocking terrain.

2) Use a command-reroll when trying seize the initiative. You have a 30.5% chance of seizing it.

**vipoid**

pismakron wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Let me express the number of drops in my IG army as a sentence:

"I am never going first."

With a command reroll you have a 30.5% chance of seizing the initiative. So mutilating your list in order to get fewer drops seems a bad idea. Even high-drop armies will go first quite regularly.

Don't worry - I have no intention of mutilating my list. Having a ridiculous number of drops for my IG army (I've only played up to 1500pts so far and even that had 26 drops) is something I find rather amusing.

As for seize the initiative, it's a mechanic I've never been fond of, so I really don't want to use a command point to reroll it even when I've got 12+ of the things.

Frankly, I really don't care about going second with my Infantry IG:
- It means my opponent is likely to move most of his stuff out from behind terrain to shoot me (so I'll be able to shoot it back).
- He might well advance some stuff and/or bring stuff in from reserve - giving me a chance to get more lasguns and plasmaguns in range.
- His movement and/or deep strikes may expose one or more of his units to my deep strike units - allowing me to counter-deep-strike with Scions in my turn (should I so choose).
- If he does any damage to my units, it's that many fewer models for me to move.

**Rubenite**

vipoid wrote:

- If he does any damage to my units, it's that many fewer models for me to move.

Some analysis of the results and comments so far, it seems like 12-20 might be a range where if you don't have a Brigade, you can expect to go second or have to use a relatively expensive command reroll from a lesser number of CPs.

20+ will either have plentiful CPs to reroll initiative or build your list around always going second.

Around the 9-11 mark you should definitely do a count of both sides and consider sneaking your Chars into Transports. Razorbacks are great for this with their capacity of 6.

**luke1705**

This is why I think the ITC format of +1 to the deployment roll is so important. Not even just for going first - having the option to make your opponent go first with 100% certainty - is too powerful not to build a list around. Making it so that you don't auto get first turn 70% of the time or auto make your opponent go first 100% of the time if it benefits you is important.

**TheMostWize**

I have 4 drops in my 2k GK

**luke1705**

I did once make a 3 drop CSM list

Ironically, I think it's not awful. Thanks lone storm eagle!

**Rubenite**

TheMostWize wrote:
I have 4 drops in my 2k GK

You are aware that setting each unit up in 'reserve' for teleportation strike each counts as a drop, right?

**Saber**

My Steel Legion army hovers around 10 drops. That's the minimum, if I put all of the infantry and characters in transports. If I deploy out of transports it gets close to 20, so I usually wait to see if my opponent will have more or fewer drops before I decide to deploy any boots on the ground.

**ZergSmasher**

I usually have had 10-15 drops, but I run MSU style lists. I don't worry too much about drop count, as there are pros and cons to going first.

**TheMostWize**

Rubenite wrote:
TheMostWize wrote:
I have 4 drops in my 2k GK

You are aware that setting each unit up in 'reserve' for teleportation strike each counts as a drop, right?

Yes I am aware of that.

- Stormraven with Voldus, Draigo, an Apothecary and 3 Paladins with a Dread.
- Dread
- 2 Paladin Squads in teleportation

4 drops. Perhaps 5 if I start Draigo off the board with the other 2 paladin squads.