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Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
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Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I think you will find a lot of correlation looking at these two statistics in regards to crime. % population in urban areas and ^% minorities. It makes sense - throw people into close proximity who have a natural animosity towards each other because they look different/act different/ speak different/ dress different.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dreadwinter wrote: If you make a gross mistake like shooting somebody, it is still a crime. I don't understand how it would not be a crime.
Because - your duties required you to do something where a mistake was inevitable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/24 19:22:03
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
I messed up the quotes. But someone was asking if the chief resigned because of the shooting or the way she criticized the cop.
It was because fo the killing in general.
There is also some political powerplays involved between the Council and the Mayor's respective power over the force. Plus, some of the council members are planning their own mayorial runs and the mayor plans on running to be re-elected. Politics is in full force.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cuda1179 wrote: Americans do have a "take care of this myself" mentality. Combine that with having a VERY long border with a corrupt, violent, drug fueled 3rd world nation and the resulting anger from 250 years of institutionalized slavery and we have a bit of a situation.
Ummmm..... Minneapolis was part of the Union (one of the first to volunteer troops to the Union cause) and borders Canada.
I don't think your comment has anything to do with anything in this Minneapolis shooting of a rookie Somali cop killing an Australian woman who called the cops to the scene in the first place.
The conversation branched off onto the police as a whole, but as for Minneapolis.....That's right, I forgot Minnesota doesn't have any Mexican immigrants or descendants of slaves that might be edgy towards law enforcement. Got it. (note, I'm not saying all Latinos or Blacks are bad. I am saying that some in those groups have stoked tensions. As have white groups, but as we where comparing what is different between the US and Europe.)
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I think you will find a lot of correlation looking at these two statistics in regards to crime. % population in urban areas and ^% minorities. It makes sense - throw people into close proximity who have a natural animosity towards each other because they look different/act different/ speak different/ dress different.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dreadwinter wrote: If you make a gross mistake like shooting somebody, it is still a crime. I don't understand how it would not be a crime.
Because - your duties required you to do something where a mistake was inevitable.
I believe the word you are looking for is possible, not inevitable. Otherwise we would have a much larger issue with the police than we already have.
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in. They work, they have lives.
It's a vicious cycle but that's the way it crumbles.
2017/07/24 23:04:43
Subject: Re:Unarmed Woman shot by Minnesota Police
cuda1179 wrote: Americans do have a "take care of this myself" mentality. Combine that with having a VERY long border with a corrupt, violent, drug fueled 3rd world nation and the resulting anger from 250 years of institutionalized slavery and we have a bit of a situation.
Ummmm..... Minneapolis was part of the Union (one of the first to volunteer troops to the Union cause) and borders Canada.
I don't think your comment has anything to do with anything in this Minneapolis shooting of a rookie Somali cop killing an Australian woman who called the cops to the scene in the first place.
The conversation branched off onto the police as a whole, but as for Minneapolis.....That's right, I forgot Minnesota doesn't have any Mexican immigrants or descendants of slaves that might be edgy towards law enforcement. Got it. (note, I'm not saying all Latinos or Blacks are bad. I am saying that some in those groups have stoked tensions. As have white groups, but as we where comparing what is different between the US and Europe.)
Yeah, well racism does exist in Minneapolis. However, the minority groups are typically Somali and Hmong. However, North Minneapolis does have a concentration of Black Americans. There is a growing Latino population as well, but it is less geographically concentrated.
However, that does not change the fact is that your argument makes no sense. Essentially, you are saying violence is inevitable and will only escalate due to race war. That does not mesh with crime statistics for the last decade or so. Plus, it is self fulfilling prophecy. If someone believes violence is inevitable around race a person predisposed to think that way will fail at de-escalation more often than succeed.
However, I have a feeling that is not what you are trying to say.
Edit: stupid quotes on a mobile
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/24 23:16:13
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Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I think you will find a lot of correlation looking at these two statistics in regards to crime. % population in urban areas and ^% minorities. It makes sense - throw people into close proximity who have a natural animosity towards each other because they look different/act different/ speak different/ dress different.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dreadwinter wrote: If you make a gross mistake like shooting somebody, it is still a crime. I don't understand how it would not be a crime.
Because - your duties required you to do something where a mistake was inevitable.
I believe the word you are looking for is possible, not inevitable. Otherwise we would have a much larger issue with the police than we already have.
Negligence is a crime. I am a professional engineer; if I make a mistake in a design that results in death or injury and I failed to follow code and procedure I can and do expect to be prosecuted and likely end up in jail. Indeed both my company, my industry and my professional body also encourage me to refuse to sign off on something if there any factors that could have prevented me from doing the job properly; this includes not having enough time to do the job, not having the correct training or experience for a particular task or if there are any personal circumstances that could be affecting my judgement, such as stress, illness or exhaustion.
And I work behind a desk 95% of the time. I fully expect someone wandering out in public with a lethal weapon to be held to at least the same standard. If your duties would inevitably lead to a mistake you have the right and the responsibility to refuse to do them.
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2017/07/25 08:38:06
Subject: Re:Unarmed Woman shot by Minnesota Police
Well, if a cop shoots someone that is violently resisting an arrest or some guy with mental problems holding a knife the excessive use of deadly force may be acceptable. Stil exaggerated in some occasions but understandable, because those situations implied real danger.
But if you shoot someone only because that person made a loud sound, he's running away (a US cop recently got a conviction for that) or is holding a can, a phone or something else that was mistaken for a gun, all this cases are not mistakes, they're crimes. It's not even negligence because the concept "I shoot first if I feel in danger even if I'm not aware of what's really happening" is widely tolerated, cops know that and they feel free to shoot towards everything that doesn't look ok to them.
Shooting towards people is a big deal, a cop should fire his gun only if he's 100% sure of the threat, if there's the slightest doubt he shouldn't shoot.
How many cops are killed because they were not "jumpy"? How many unarmed/innocent people are dead because some cops felt something that wasn't real?
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in. They work, they have lives.
It's a vicious cycle but that's the way it crumbles.
That's a poor excuse. That's a terribly poor excuse.
This is like the absolute basics of gun safety. Isn't the first thing they are supposed to teach you "don't aim at something you don't intend to kill."?
My problem with America isn't the gun laws, it's that your gun safety laws are absolutely awful. You don't see any other country's police shooting people and then blaming stress, because they know not to unholster that gun until it is time to shoot.
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Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in.
Doesn't matter. Job training does not come out of your free time, range time here comes in your schedule (or is paid as overtime) and if you fail you lose your gun until you're proficient again.
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in.
Doesn't matter. Job training does not come out of your free time, range time here comes in your schedule (or is paid as overtime) and if you fail you lose your gun until you're proficient again.
Not entirely true. If it's a requirement to keep your job, you have to take care of it yourself.
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in.
Doesn't matter. Job training does not come out of your free time, range time here comes in your schedule (or is paid as overtime) and if you fail you lose your gun until you're proficient again.
Not entirely true. If it's a requirement to keep your job, you have to take care of it yourself.
You can still be a cop without a gun. You'll just get less pay and a desk position.
You have a gakky employer if mandatory training comes from your free time.
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in.
Doesn't matter. Job training does not come out of your free time, range time here comes in your schedule (or is paid as overtime) and if you fail you lose your gun until you're proficient again.
Not entirely true. If it's a requirement to keep your job, you have to take care of it yourself.
You can still be a cop without a gun. You'll just get less pay and a desk position.
You have a gakky employer if mandatory training comes from your free time.
Welcome to the US corporate world
2017/07/25 11:52:37
Subject: Re:Unarmed Woman shot by Minnesota Police
My problem with America isn't the gun laws, it's that your gun safety laws are absolutely awful. You don't see any other country's police shooting people and then blaming stress, because they know not to unholster that gun until it is time to shoot.
Well in our defense, in most of the globe and especially the Americas, the police just shoot you or disappear you and make no excuses whatsoever.
Yes training and philosophy needs to be changed, but lets keep something fu perspective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/25 12:05:33
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Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in.
Doesn't matter. Job training does not come out of your free time, range time here comes in your schedule (or is paid as overtime) and if you fail you lose your gun until you're proficient again.
Not entirely true. If it's a requirement to keep your job, you have to take care of it yourself.
You can still be a cop without a gun. You'll just get less pay and a desk position.
You have a gakky employer if mandatory training comes from your free time.
Welcome to the US corporate world
I think the US Corporate World is more in the line of training you on the clock. I know a USAF Reservist who just quit at 12 years in, because he was tired of all of the mandatory training the AF made him do, while he wasn't on the job. I'm unaware of a civilian job that can make you work when you're not on the clock.
I think the US Corporate World is more in the line of training you on the clock. I know a USAF Reservist who just quit at 12 years in, because he was tired of all of the mandatory training the AF made him do, while he wasn't on the job. I'm unaware of a civilian job that can make you work when you're not on the clock.
Teaching.
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Tax preparation. I had to get a bunch of training done each year that I had to pay for. It's to the point that I was effectively going to make less than minimum wage...
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in.
Doesn't matter. Job training does not come out of your free time, range time here comes in your schedule (or is paid as overtime) and if you fail you lose your gun until you're proficient again.
Not entirely true. If it's a requirement to keep your job, you have to take care of it yourself.
You can still be a cop without a gun. You'll just get less pay and a desk position.
You have a gakky employer if mandatory training comes from your free time.
Welcome to the US corporate world
I think the US Corporate World is more in the line of training you on the clock. I know a USAF Reservist who just quit at 12 years in, because he was tired of all of the mandatory training the AF made him do, while he wasn't on the job. I'm unaware of a civilian job that can make you work when you're not on the clock.
I have to have a certain amount of continued education hours each year to keep my job. I do it at work, through work. It is unpaid and they won't give me my paycheck unless I do it. I have to do it today so I can eat!
I think the US Corporate World is more in the line of training you on the clock. I know a USAF Reservist who just quit at 12 years in, because he was tired of all of the mandatory training the AF made him do, while he wasn't on the job. I'm unaware of a civilian job that can make you work when you're not on the clock.
Teaching.
Ha. Yeah, teaching is a great example. Some weeks I spent easily as much "off the clock" time as I spent in the classroom.
Many medical positions require off-the clock certification training. Often paid out of the employee's own pocket. My wife needs to do that to maintain her phlebotomy license annually.
Easy E wrote: [
Yeah, well racism does exist in Minneapolis. However, the minority groups are typically Somali and Hmong. However, North Minneapolis does have a concentration of Black Americans. There is a growing Latino population as well, but it is less geographically concentrated.
However, that does not change the fact is that your argument makes no sense. Essentially, you are saying violence is inevitable and will only escalate due to race war. That does not mesh with crime statistics for the last decade or so. Plus, it is self fulfilling prophecy. If someone believes violence is inevitable around race a person predisposed to think that way will fail at de-escalation more often than succeed.
However, I have a feeling that is not what you are trying to say.
I'll try to clarify. 13% of the American population is visibly descended from slaves. Slavery that ended just a few generations ago for some people. Another 6% of our population is made up of Illegal immigrants and their children from 3rd world countries with major crime problems. Also the police force has traditionally been Caucasian (although rapidly becoming more diverse). Due to racism and social constructs on every side, a lot ethnic groups see this as an us vs. them mentality when it comes to the police, and in many ways the police do this to them as well. My brother is friends with a Black police officer in Tulsa, and even that officer has harsh feelings toward much of the inner city Black community.
I feel that a lot of the unnecessary shootings are due to over-hyped fear, often propagated by the media. The "if it bleeds it reads" mentality is strong with them. Not to mention every other hype-man out there looking for his 15 minutes of fame.
The only good thing I can say about this case is that at least no one is screaming the falsities of "Hands Up, Don't Shoot".
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in.
Doesn't matter. Job training does not come out of your free time, range time here comes in your schedule (or is paid as overtime) and if you fail you lose your gun until you're proficient again.
Not entirely true. If it's a requirement to keep your job, you have to take care of it yourself.
You can still be a cop without a gun. You'll just get less pay and a desk position.
You have a gakky employer if mandatory training comes from your free time.
Welcome to the US corporate world
I think the US Corporate World is more in the line of training you on the clock. I know a USAF Reservist who just quit at 12 years in, because he was tired of all of the mandatory training the AF made him do, while he wasn't on the job. I'm unaware of a civilian job that can make you work when you're not on the clock.
Amazon, though I believe there was a court case in the past year that put a stop to it.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Amazon wasn't making people work though IIRC. It was just that they were being held beyond their paid hours for security checks.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Amazon wasn't making people work though IIRC. It was just that they were being held beyond their paid hours for security checks.
The argument came down to "is a procedure that is required as a condition of working and has to be completed to be able to do the work something that an employee is required to be paid for" if I recall correctly.
In actual on-topic news:
It seems that she may have slapped the rear of the police vehicle when they arrived to get their attention (so maybe they were driving past her or didn't notice her?) and that's the "loud noise" that got her killed.
Kilkrazy wrote: You still haven't answered the point of why a routine traffic stop is likely to turn into a gunfight in the USA.
The short answer is that it is not likely and very few people are ever shot by police. The still short answer is that in the few situations where it does occur - a few mistakes are made and blown up by the media - this is literally human error. Everything has human error where humans are involved. Why do these cops usually not get charged with crimes? Because they didn't commit crimes - they made a gross mistake. Usually given the circumstance the mistake is understandable by a Jury and so they aren't convicted. I don't think this guy is going to get off though - not because he is black but because he killed a women.
Yes, that is completely true, BUT, at the same time, you are more likely to be shot by police in the USA than in any other western alliance country (Japan, Canada, Australia, France, Norway, etc.) Let's leave out the UK because it's a massive outlier, not having armed police.
It poses the question of why there is so much more human error in the USA than in Ireland, Sweden, or South Korea. I don't imagine anyone is going to argue that US policemen and/or their managing departments are more stupid than the other countries.
I could argue that. When you don't allocate time and funds to train a professional force of citizens who also keep the peace then that qualifies as stupid IMO.
You know why they don't allocate time to it?
Because police run excessively heavy shift schedules. The officers don't have time to go down to the range like Joe Schmuck with his pistols and get time in.
Doesn't matter. Job training does not come out of your free time, range time here comes in your schedule (or is paid as overtime) and if you fail you lose your gun until you're proficient again.
Not entirely true. If it's a requirement to keep your job, you have to take care of it yourself.
You can still be a cop without a gun. You'll just get less pay and a desk position.
You have a gakky employer if mandatory training comes from your free time.
Welcome to the US corporate world
I think the US Corporate World is more in the line of training you on the clock. I know a USAF Reservist who just quit at 12 years in, because he was tired of all of the mandatory training the AF made him do, while he wasn't on the job. I'm unaware of a civilian job that can make you work when you're not on the clock.
Amazon, though I believe there was a court case in the past year that put a stop to it.
Didn't put a stop to it. Court ruled in Amazon's favor.
2017/07/25 18:44:31
Subject: Re:Unarmed Woman shot by Minnesota Police
I believe this was that it took an excessively long time to pass the security point AFTER clocking out. Court did rule in favor of Amazon (which I disagreed with).
