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 Kanluwen wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I would also say that Doctrines have to return. The marines (both loyalist and traitor) have their own version and we're supposed to be even more varied than them.

No, they do not have anything like "Doctrines".

I'm sorry but every time I hear someone say that things like Chapter Traits are similar to Doctrines it bothers me immeasurably. Doctrines were a huge deal that no army has really replicated since.

It affected the way your army was built(Ratlings, Stormtroopers, Ogryn, Heavy Weapon Squads, Techpriests, Special Weapon Squads, Veterans, and Rough Riders were locked out and took up Doctrine slots for example), it affected the way your basic infantry were built(Warrior Weapons mandated you take CCW+Laspistols in lieu of Lasguns, Carapace gave them a 4+ save, Cybernetic Enhancement gave them an Invulnerable save), and it affected the way the army played(rerolling hit rolls of 1s via Sharpshooter, Iron Discipline's benefits, etc...)

You guys really need to know that Doctrines were cool...but they were also exceedingly restrictive.

I think they where on about Veteran Doctrines from the last couple of books.
That said I want the army wide ones to come back.

Honestly?

I don't want either one back. They became crutches.

The army wide ones, with some effort put in, could become amazing, allowing each player to customise their force as they desire. Think about it, you could have doctrines that let you play anything from mounted heavy infantry to fast light infiltrators and guerrillas to heavy infantry to anything!
As to the Veteran ones, there was nothing wrong with them when we had them and they gave Veteran units a bit more flexibility. What is wrong with having them back?

 master of ordinance wrote:

The army wide ones, with some effort put in, could become amazing, allowing each player to customise their force as they desire. Think about it, you could have doctrines that let you play anything from mounted heavy infantry to fast light infiltrators and guerrillas to heavy infantry to anything!

Would much rather get a Light Infiltrator list, a Heavy Infantry list, and mounted infantry(note that Steel Legion did NOT have Grenadiers OR Carapace Armor) list.

As to the Veteran ones, there was nothing wrong with them when we had them and they gave Veteran units a bit more flexibility. What is wrong with having them back?

No they didn't. They gave them essentially one set of options that anyone ever took and the rest just rotted. You might as well just give us Grenadiers and call it a day.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

The army wide ones, with some effort put in, could become amazing, allowing each player to customise their force as they desire. Think about it, you could have doctrines that let you play anything from mounted heavy infantry to fast light infiltrators and guerrillas to heavy infantry to anything!

Would much rather get a Light Infiltrator list, a Heavy Infantry list, and mounted infantry(note that Steel Legion did NOT have Grenadiers OR Carapace Armor) list.

Okay, that is an idea, but what is wrong with having doctrines? Maybe something that reduces the ROF os Lasguns, or removes FRFSRF but allows you to reroll 1's for hitting with +6" of range? Or something that allows your army to infiltrate at the cost of never being able to take carapace armour and no more than one vehicle Heavy Support choice? Something that makes Chimeras cheaper/buffs them in some way, but all infantry units must take a transport?

As to the Veteran ones, there was nothing wrong with them when we had them and they gave Veteran units a bit more flexibility. What is wrong with having them back?

No they didn't. They gave them essentially one set of options that anyone ever took and the rest just rotted. You might as well just give us Grenadiers and call it a day.

Grenadiers was an auto-take because it was the only way to ensure that your expensive unit would not be wiped off the board the moment the first MEQ/AP5 or better unit looked in its general direction. With save modifiers as they are now Grenadiers will not always be an autotake. And the other doctrines where useful as well. Demolitions gave the unit a point blank surprise and some great tank hunting abilities whilst Forward Sentries was great for fighting in dense terrain.

Plastic old Storm Troopers or Kasrkin and Steel Legion would make me a happy camper.

They're fine models, but I do like how you can change up Scions, metal models are annoying to convert.

I miss the old doctrines of the 4th edition armoured company list.

Tanks that could change ammunition types!

The current Overwatch before it ever existed!

Improved armour!

Close combat attacks before Close Combat tanks were a thing!

And more besides!

Absolutely! If they bring back doctrines then the tanks should get in on this. That could be a way to bring back relic plating (which I thought was a cool concept). Say the whole regiment itself is known for interning dead crew into their vehicles to ward off evil spirits. Another doctrine idea; the tanks can retreat and shoot in the same turn but suffer -1 to hit rolls. I'm sure you could get enough of them to make a decent set to choose from.

 Ruberu wrote:
Plastic old Storm Troopers or Kasrkin and Steel Legion would make me a happy camper.

You have good taste! Here are my Steel Legion stormtroopers:



I just hope if they update any of the old regiments to plastic, they keep it simple. So many of the models coming out these days are overly ornate & end up looking ridiculous. Like the new space marines with bones underneath their junk. The scions suffer from this as well:



I can't really describe why I don't like their new aesthetic, I just don't.

Maybe it's because every helmet and chest plate is different? That kinda bugs me for some reason. Contrast with the Primus marines and their smooth universal suits. I don't mind the gothic aesthetic of them, but I do wish they had greaves. If you're going for the knightly look you should go the whole hog.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I miss the old doctrines of the 4th edition armoured company list.

Tanks that could change ammunition types!

The current Overwatch before it ever existed!

Improved armour!

Close combat attacks before Close Combat tanks were a thing!

And more besides!

Oh god yes, and things like anti magnetid mine paste - basically Zimmerit - to protect against melta bombs. Even modelled it on my Jagdpanther look-a-like Destroyer Tank Hunter.
Of all the different types of armored company (and equivalent) lits I've used over the 5 editions I've played, that one was the most fun. I also liked the morale rules that list had, that if more than half the tanks were destroyed or immobilized, no tank could move towards the opponents board edge unless a Commissar tank was nearby.

 Strg Alt wrote:

- Named Catachan characters as a special veteran squad like the dirty dozen

They basically already exist though not Catachan specific.



Praetorians are unlikely though incredibly popular, just not popular enough (or serious enough for modern 40k) to warrant a model range. However 3rd Party companies have got this niche very well covered so its not something worth fighting for IMO.

Be interesting if they went back to 2nd/3rd addition ascthetic, have different units from different regiments obstensibly so you build a balanced mixed army but with the flexibility of plastic box sets (and hopefully in-codex) to make "all-X" armies.

Anyone know if there's any substance to Steel Legion rumours or is it just an version of IG player longing for greatcoats? With Cadia gone and the approach to SM/CSM release, I could see GW releasing the Ork and IG codexes together with fluff focusing around Armageddon. Would be nice.

It's just wishlisting.

Cadia isn't gone though. Read the main rulebook; there's fighting going on in the system and even on flipping chunks of the destroyed planet.

It's gone enough not to care.

I said before that if Armageddon is becoming more important in the fluff, they should make plastic steel legion. And releasing the IG along side the orks would be great.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I said before that if Armageddon is becoming more important in the fluff, they should make plastic steel legion. And releasing the IG along side the orks would be great.

I think you could get a lot of mileage with just a head and backpack for steel legion. Even with the death of Cadia, I don't think the cadian models are going anywhere, although it would be nice to get a refresh the way tacticals did.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I said before that if Armageddon is becoming more important in the fluff, they should make plastic steel legion. And releasing the IG along side the orks would be great.

The Armageddon campaign back in 3rd edition was the ! I still think it is the best campaign book ever written. The rivalry between Yarrick & Ghazghkull Thraka, the scale of conflict, # of armies involved, named characters die, the setting, & neither side "wins". Its everything I want in a campaign. Even with Thraka repelled from the world (Got bored/called away by Gork/Mork) the ork presence on the planet is still massive. Hell the conflict has been going on for 17+ real life years & has only gotten worse. Hive cities, hive gangs, mad max type atmosphere, its got it all.

Not to mention Armageddon is Ullanor. Everyone is familiar with this picture:



Know where this is? Present day Armageddon. Where Horus was named Warmaster. How is this possible?

Shortly after the death of Koorland, Maximus Thane led a third and final Imperial invasion of Ullanor. During this attack, the Imperials used redirected asteroids to devastate the planet. Using the Sisters of Silence in conjunction with a captured Ork Psyker, The Beast was slain.[5] After the war Thane, now Lord Commander, ordered that the Adeptus Mechanicus enact Exterminatus on Ullanor to erase it from history and prevent a new Beast from ever arising. However Fabricator-General Kubik coveted the Greenskin artifacts on the world, and instead used his reverse-engineered Ork teleportation technology to teleport Ullanor to a secret location in Segmentum Solar, which later became Armageddon.

Something lies hidden on Armageddon. Something so important that the Mechanicus teleported a planet to preserve it, so important that Gork & Mork want it as well as Chaos. What is it? Who knows.

Anyhow, if they release plastic Steel Legion I will definitely be dropping a lot of money.

Absolutely. It's as big a deal as the eye of terror in my opinion. They should really do this!

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:


Shortly after the death of Koorland, Maximus Thane led a third and final Imperial invasion of Ullanor. During this attack, the Imperials used redirected asteroids to devastate the planet. Using the Sisters of Silence in conjunction with a captured Ork Psyker, The Beast was slain.[5] After the war Thane, now Lord Commander, ordered that the Adeptus Mechanicus enact Exterminatus on Ullanor to erase it from history and prevent a new Beast from ever arising. However Fabricator-General Kubik coveted the Greenskin artifacts on the world, and instead used his reverse-engineered Ork teleportation technology to teleport Ullanor to a secret location in Segmentum Solar, which later became Armageddon.

Something lies hidden on Armageddon. Something so important that the Mechanicus teleported a planet to preserve it, so important that Gork & Mork want it as well as Chaos. What is it? Who knows.

It's Horus's 'Passwords to the Solar Defense grid' notebook. He's been trying to find that thing for Ages

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Absolutely. It's as big a deal as the eye of terror in my opinion. They should really do this!

Agreed!
Not to mention plastic Imperial Guard models that are not a decade and a bit old, and (hopefully) overpriced.

The current IG models are extremely dated and heinously overpriced for what they are.

Whoa! That makes Armageddon so much cooler! I never knew that background fluff. So good!

Indeed, the cadains are painfully dated these days and the catachans are...

The steel legion have an awesome look to them. My only request is that they increase their '40kish' by about 10% or so, just so that they don't look like historical wargames miniatures carrying strange looking guns. It's...complicated to explain.

By the way, this whole idea reminds me of something somebody said before 8th came out. Just as age of Sigmar has its realms, 40k could have its war zones. The eye of terror is one, and Armageddon could be another. You could have one out in the east between the tau and the nids and so on.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The steel legion have an awesome look to them. My only request is that they increase their '40kish' by about 10% or so, just so that they don't look like historical wargames miniatures carrying strange looking guns. It's...complicated to explain.

Please, please, please, please, please, please do, but NO ornate armour, Scion style. It looks awful an out of place.

Looks alright to distinguish Scions from the rest of the Guard. Might not fight on for the Steel Legion, but it would not be out of place for Vostroyan First Born or some other fancy geared regiments from the FFG books.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Cadia isn't gone though. Read the main rulebook; there's fighting going on in the system and even on flipping chunks of the destroyed planet.

Furthermore, even if the entire system were gone, Cadian Shock Troops are one of - if not the - Imperium's most prolifically raised and widely dispersed Regiments. There's plenty of scope for Cadian armies kicking around, both in high numbers and long years after Cadia's fall.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The steel legion have an awesome look to them. My only request is that they increase their '40kish' by about 10% or so, just so that they don't look like historical wargames miniatures carrying strange looking guns. It's...complicated to explain.

Good God, no. I've seen enough of GW's modern "improved updates" to not trust them from it up and going too far/overboard.

Are you sure? We could have Primaris Guardsmen, who are a somewhat larger scale version of Cadians. They could be wearing a bit more armor and have better guns, and they'd be elite forces of the guard. Maybe also have implants and genetic manipulation and stuff like that.

That could be super cool, right? Right?

 daedalus wrote:
Are you sure? We could have Primaris Guardsmen, who are a somewhat larger scale version of Cadians. They could be wearing a bit more armor and have better guns, and they'd be elite forces of the guard. Maybe also have implants and genetic manipulation and stuff like that.

That could be super cool, right? Right?

I see what you did there.

Okay, I have posted but I don't think I listed my wants:

I want different regiment types to be available. Not different regiments, per se (i.e. cadian vs death korps vs steel legion) but rather different regiment types.

At least one of each of the following regimental types have been included in the fluff, and I will stick a 'chapter tactics' style rule to them to indicate how it might be accomplished:

Infantry Regiment: Primary Bonus: Units of Astra Militarum <Regiment> Infantry gain the Sustained Assault special rule. Secondary Bonus: Units of Astra Militarum <Regiment> Infantry with the Voice of Command special rule may issue the Front Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire order for free once per turn in addition to their normal amount of orders.

Armoured Regiment: Primary Bonus: Any Astra Militarum <Regiment> Leman Russ may roll two dice and pick the highest when deciding the numbers of shots fired by any weapons on the vehicle. Vehicles without random-shot weapons instead gain the Grinding Advance rule for all their weapons instead of just the turret. Secondary Bonus: Astra Militarum Techpriest Enginseers may replace the <Forge World> keyword with the <Regiment> keyword.

Reconnaissance Regiment: Primary Bonus: Any Astra Militarum <Regiment> Sentinels in the army ignore the cover bonus enemies gain against their attacks, and may fire as if stationary even if they moved or Advanced in the movement phase. Secondary Bonus: Astra Militarum <Regiment> Veterans in the army may take Camo Cloaks, adding +2 to their save for cover rather than the normal +1.

Veteran Regiment: Primary Bonus:Any Astra Militarum <Regiment> Veterans become troops choices for the army. Secondary Bonus: Any Astra Militarum <Regiment> Veterans increase their armour save to a 4+

Superheavy Regiment: Primary Bonus: Any Astra Militarum <Regiment> Titanic unit may move and shoot without the penalty for firing heavy weapons. Secondary Bonus: One Astra Militarum <Regiment> Titanic unit per Superheavy Detachment may upgrade its ballistic skill to 3+ as the unit command tank.

Air Defense Regiment: Primary Bonus: Any Astra Militarum <Regiment> Hydras or Manticore Sky Eagles gain an additional +1d3 damage bonus to all their weapons against units with Fly. Secondary Bonus: Every enemy unit with Fly destroyed by an Astra Militarum <Regiment> Hydra or Manticore Sky Eagle grants the Astra Militarum player one Victory Point.

Siege Regiment: Primary Bonus: Any Astra Militarum <Regiment> unit ignores the cover bonus gained by enemies at which it shoots, and may re-roll damage results against buildings for random damage weapons. Secondary Bonus: Any Astra Militarum <Regiment> Infantry unit may take a Demolition Charge.

Airborne Regiment: Primary Bonus: Every Valkyrie, Vendetta, Vulture, and Officer of the Fleet in the army trades the Aeronautica Imperialis keyword for the <Regiment> keyword. Any unit that does so may Deep Strike, as per the Scion special rule. Secondary Bonus: The army may select Astra Militarum Veterans as troops choices.

Composite Regiment: Primary Bonus: The Regiment may select any two Secondary Bonuses from any other regiment type. Secondary Bonus: None.

Artillery Regiment: Primary Bonus: Any Astra Militarum <Regiment> unit that can fire a weapon that does not require Line of Sight may re-roll 1s to wound. Secondary Bonus: Any <Regiment> Master of Ordnances may be HQ choices instead of elites in an Artillery Regiment detachment.

@ hawky & Anfauglir

Google 'fallout: new vegas' ranger to get an idea of what I mean.

So, de-cyborged Skitarii Vanguards?

Added some stuff to my list of regiments, but any input or ideas would be welcome! The staggering diversity of regiments in the galaxy makes me excited!

I think it also encourages people to run different regiments in a battlegroup if they make a competitive list, which is also fluffly.

E.g. a Flyer Wing Air Wing detachment supporting a Spearhead Detachment Artillery Regiment with a Battalion Detachment Infantry Regiment as a 3-regiment tournament army.

Alternatively, you can lump everything together to make a huge Brigade, but just lose some bonuses on some stuff while gaining CP, or take one of the more general regimental types (e.g. Siege or Composite)