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 Bull0 wrote:
This looks like a codex to skip. To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement. They can crap out psychic disciplines and strategems for grey knights but not for chaos space marines? Yeah, cheers

err they are getting 10 psychic powers. More than space marines. Plus 29 strategems.

The way they've phrased it suggests none of it's exclusive to that army, though. That's what I meant.

 Bull0 wrote:
The way they've phrased it suggests none of it's exclusive to that army, though. That's what I meant.

Err where? OP is pretty explicit.

Also this: http://i.imgur.com/YW5fjSV.jpg

Sometimes I think people want to whine and see what they want to see...

Damn. This is going to suck. AGAIN!

Umbros wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
The way they've phrased it suggests none of it's exclusive to that army, though. That's what I meant.

Err where? OP is pretty explicit.

Also this: http://i.imgur.com/YW5fjSV.jpg

Sometimes I think people want to whine and see what they want to see...

That picture seems to imply (possibly) that Grey Knights and CSM could be getting their releases at pretty much the same time

It's funny that GW has squated options not represented on models, yet they blatantly ignored options available on their very new (by GW standards) mono-pose Chosen models, completely invalidating some of the better CSM models.

GW is really lazy when it comes to CSM (and some other factions). Their policy of letting their sculptors make whatever they feel like and ignoring what the range actually needs (decent chaos kits, especially Abafail, Sisters ffs) is hurting their bottom line. No other company would let their #1 game antagonists atrophy so badly. Just look at the last two game sets -DI & DV. In both cases the bad guy chaos units were way more detailed and interesting looking than the good guys, inspiring many players to choose chaos on the look alone. Then they look at the basic kits and expanded range and cry.

Chaos should be their number 2 priority, after lanky marines of course, they'd never not make SM's #1. And if chaos is a minimal release why the hell are they after GK's? Why aren't they second so we can play the campaign on an even footing from the get-go? GK's are such a specialised and small faction.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Damn. This is going to RULE. AGAIN!

Yeah! CSM are already doing pretty well but with this we should be a real force to be reckoned with. I can't wait to get, hopefully, my Axe of Blind Fury and Burning Brand back. Hopefully there will be point reductions across the board as well just like the SM codex.

Demantiae wrote:
It's funny that GW has squated options not represented on models, yet they blatantly ignored options available on their very new (by GW standards) mono-pose Chosen models, completely invalidating some of the better CSM models.

But they don't sell those any more, so they don't matter.

Consider us lucky that we even have Chosen in Power Armour, given that they don't make a kit for that either...

Quoted from the GK thread

 Quickjager wrote:
Codex Pre-order August 5th

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Umbros wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
The way they've phrased it suggests none of it's exclusive to that army, though. That's what I meant.

Err where? OP is pretty explicit.

Also this: http://i.imgur.com/YW5fjSV.jpg

Sometimes I think people want to whine and see what they want to see...

That picture seems to imply (possibly) that Grey Knights and CSM could be getting their releases at pretty much the same time

well the pic does say that Grey Kinghts are getting 16 (of the 19 in their deck) strategms exclusive to Grey Knights in thier deck, the Chaos one just lists "the 29 stategems aavialble to Chaos Space Marines"

Gk get 16 plus the base 3
Csm get the base 3, presumably 8 specific to various legions, and then 18 more. Some will likely be the same strategies with different names, like the +1/+2 relic one.

 Mr Morden wrote:

well the pic does say that Grey Kinghts are getting 16 (of the 19 in their deck) strategms exclusive to Grey Knights in thier deck, the Chaos one just lists "the 29 stategems aavialble to Chaos Space Marines"

A ridiculous point since unless they're literally copy pasted from SM, they're CSM exclusive, as no other strategems exist.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

well the pic does say that Grey Kinghts are getting 16 (of the 19 in their deck) strategms exclusive to Grey Knights in thier deck, the Chaos one just lists "the 29 stategems aavialble to Chaos Space Marines"

A ridiculous point since unless they're literally copy pasted from SM, they're CSM exclusive, as no other strategems exist.

They could re-use some of the Vehicle ones like Linebreaker for Vindicators.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

well the pic does say that Grey Kinghts are getting 16 (of the 19 in their deck) strategms exclusive to Grey Knights in thier deck, the Chaos one just lists "the 29 stategems aavialble to Chaos Space Marines"

A ridiculous point since unless they're literally copy pasted from SM, they're CSM exclusive, as no other strategems exist.

They could re-use some of the Vehicle ones like Linebreaker for Vindicators.

In which case, those would also not be "exclusive" to SM, either.

But, yeah, I expect to see some overlap where SM stratagems involve common vehicles.

they'd be "exclusive" in that the SM one applies to <Chapter> <Vindicator> units and the CSM one would apply to <Legion> or <Heretic Astartes> Vindicators.

Wording is different, ergo stratagem is different, so they can claim that the stratagems are exclusive, the same way "Ripping the galaxy in half and initiating a century long timeskip" is technically not 40K End Times

Umbros wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
The way they've phrased it suggests none of it's exclusive to that army, though. That's what I meant.

Err where? OP is pretty explicit.

Also this: http://i.imgur.com/YW5fjSV.jpg

Sometimes I think people want to whine and see what they want to see...

That page literally uses the wording "exclusive" regarding grey knights and doesn't regarding chaos space marines, that's what I meant. I don't understand how you read my post, read the wording on that image, then decided that was a good example to disprove my point. But yeah sure, go for ad homs, I'm just looking for things to whine about (pro tip - I'm probably one of the biggest GW defenders on the forum and far from a perennial whiner.)

Well now that this is out in the open, I'm expecting articles to see what's in store.

Maybe the CSM ones will be available in the Thousand Sons and DeathGuard books as well? With a few switcheroos and special ones added/removed?

The Legion codexes are still Heretic Astartes.

Considering one of those Grey knight strategems is pay 1cp to take an extra relic or pay 3 for 2 extra relics i think you're overreacting. Considering that is 100% one of there 16 out of 19 unique strategems and it is literally identical to one space marines have.

How do you tell the differences between the various plasma guns in the Hellblaster squad?

Some have cables, and some don't... but that covers 2 types.

I don't know why everyone is so shocked that basic Chaos Space Marines aren't getting any new kits at the moment. It's not that I'm NOT disappointed (looking at you, Havocs kit), but GW is currently pumping a ton of resources into Primaris Marines and, to a lesser degree it seems, Death Guard. With ten codexes coming out by Christmas, they're pumping out a ton of paper to get people up and playing. I really see these first round of codexes as a heavier version of the indexes, with them being more specific to each faction.

Sometime next year, once all the codexes are out, I'd expect to start seeing new supplemental rulebooks. I don't know if they're going to do battle zones, campaigns, or something else, but that's when I'd expect to start seeing more new kits for existing factions. I'd really hope for both updates to existing kits (again, Havocs!) as well as some new units.

I see no reason to panic at this point.

It isn't like the basic CSM kit needs too much. Just mildly resized legs to match Deathwatch/Rubrics etc, and a few weapons options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The terminator kit is garbage though.

With absolute and complete acknowledgment of the frustrations and desires of those who want new kits, and I absolutely agree that more stuff would be nothing but positive, I have to say,

I don't really care.

There's so many Chaos, Marine, Fantasy Chaos and FW bits (plus third party if you're not locked into GW store gaming, have you seen the not-Abaddon Wargames Exclusive have just released?!) that one can build almost anything you want with real freedom. I get that if you want to just glue gak together and get gaming then that's unnecessary complication, but for a special snowflake like me, building a one of a kind unit is very rewarding and quite thematic for the faction.

 Azreal13 wrote:
With absolute and complete acknowledgment of the frustrations and desires of those who want new kits, and I absolutely agree that more stuff would be nothing but positive, I have to say,

I don't really care.

There's so many Chaos, Marine, Fantasy Chaos and FW bits (plus third party if you're not locked into GW store gaming, have you seen the not-Abaddon Wargames Exclusive have just released?!) that one can build almost anything you want with real freedom. I get that if you want to just glue gak together and get gaming then that's unnecessary complication, but for a special snowflake like me, building a one of a kind unit is very rewarding and quite thematic for the faction.

Yea I agree, maybe I am weird but even with a new updated look that checked all the boxes I would still be fishing in my bits box. No need to upgrade the legs when you can get heresy era marks off ebay for fairly cheap and chaos marines for even cheaper.

Yeah, I'm personally okay kitbashing across my army, but CSM could really use at least a core squad that was consistent with most contemporary Marines. From that, you can make most things with the right arms, but without it, you're mostly forced to scrounge from other lines.

I'd actually like a new vehicle upgrade sprue, one that wasn't literally spikes to stick on a normal vehicle, more than anything. One that featured bits that actually integrated into the Rhino and Land Raider chassis rather than hung off the outside like an after thought.

I guess Renegades covers CSM groups that weren't part of the original Traitor Legions, so ones like the Huron Blackheart's Red Corsairs, or the Crimson Slaughter? I sure hope they get some decent love then, not that I play either of those two but for the sake of those who do.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How do you tell the differences between the various plasma guns in the Hellblaster squad?

Some have cables, and some don't... but that covers 2 types.

There also is a third plasma reservoir at the barrel tip on one of them.

Both Codex Grey Knights and Chaos space marines comes out on the 12th of august with pre-orders on the 5th, so not long to wait for some info since warhammer community should start previewing things for us soon considering that pre orders are up in a today next week.

Where are you seeing a "renegades" distinction?

As a serious Red Corsairs fan, I'd be perfectly happy with just actually getting a legion-style rule. (I still have zero idea why anyone thought Crimson Slaughter needed to exist when there were already red CSMs who were demon-friendly (Word Bearers); red CSMs who liked slaughter (World Eaters); and red CSMs who were recent traitors who became Chaos-y very quickly (Red Corsairs); and even red recent CSMs who like slaughter (Skulltakers-FW)... making up around a third of major CSM varieties. /rant)

In a perfect iteration, I think it would be way cool for they, or generally recent traitors as a whole, to see more modern options vs. the legions, more influenced by HH tech, but I don't think that's going to happen,