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Given the somehwat vague nature of what different people regard as "fine" that's not really a bet one can really take.

I hope they push about everything normal SM do not have access to. Playing World Eaters without Forge World currently feels like playing SM with Khorne Berzerkers, Daemon Princes and Heldrakes... At least thats what feels viable.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Given the somehwat vague nature of what different people regard as "fine" that's not really a bet one can really take.

They're "fine" being a punching bag for the good guys!

well previously the problem with chaos has been that being made at a differant time form standard marines and under a differant design philophesy they useally came out worse for it. now it looks like CSM and C:SM where designed together so there's a good chance they'll be on even footing.

TLDR if chaos sucks vanilla marines likely will too

Any leaks or rumors of the Iron Warriors legion tactics yet?

DCannon4Life wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
One could read between the lines of that blurb and read it as "we acknowledge they've been a bit weak for too long and we've given them a much needed shot in the arm."

But it's probably just rhetoric, what are the odds of CSM being an early edition release and actually being good?

I'll bet you 1,000,000 Internets that CSM will be just fine.

Wonder if you made that bet back in 6th too.

 ph34r wrote:
Any leaks or rumors of the Iron Warriors legion tactics yet?

No leaks of any kind so far. They're previewing a Legion each day starting tomorrow so information is gonna start rolling in soon.

Arachnofiend wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Any leaks or rumors of the Iron Warriors legion tactics yet?

No leaks of any kind so far. They're previewing a Legion each day starting tomorrow so information is gonna start rolling in soon.

YAY! I assume black Legion'll be first

BrianDavion wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Any leaks or rumors of the Iron Warriors legion tactics yet?

No leaks of any kind so far. They're previewing a Legion each day starting tomorrow so information is gonna start rolling in soon.

YAY! I assume black Legion'll be first

That's a ridiculously safe bet.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Any leaks or rumors of the Iron Warriors legion tactics yet?

No leaks of any kind so far. They're previewing a Legion each day starting tomorrow so information is gonna start rolling in soon.

YAY! I assume black Legion'll be first

That's a ridiculously safe bet.

maybe but hey! I'll give great odds!

Given the speed this came out, I imagine most of the fluff will be taken from the existing chaos books and the new 8th edition rulebook. Don't expect any new units, so just the relics (artifacts), the strategems, legion tactics and possibly some changes in the costs of some stuff. (There were some reduction in costs in the new space marine codex).

I would still buy it though. lol

 Azreal13 wrote:
One could read between the lines of that blurb and read it as "we acknowledge they've been a bit weak for too long and we've given them a much needed shot in the arm."

But it's probably just rhetoric, what are the odds of CSM being an early edition release and actually being good?

I'd say that coming out after Codex Space Marines is a good thing as it indicates they were made about the same time. So we should at least be at least on par with them. For the same reason I'm glad Grey Knights is coming out before Chaos Daemons. So they have time to re-balance them if the GK end up to strong vs Daemons. But I'm not to worried since GW has proven their serious about trying to balance the game. Honestly, I'm quite happy with how we play even with the Chaos Index. Its not perfect ofcourse but most of the real issues were corrected with the changes to the new edition.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the Legion traits and stratagems though, since C:SM didn't just port over their old Chapter Tactics. I doubt we'll just get ported over Chaos Legions abilities either. I'm guessing Emperor's Children will be completely different now. Since I don't see us getting FNP back in any form. Meanwhile everyone has Split-fire by default, and Dark Eldar already have a "Combat Drug" mechanic. Maybe a stratagem that boosts a single Noise Marine units shooting by +1 strength for a CP? The blurb says it'll represent our "depraved duelists", not sure how they could represent that with challenges being gone. Maybe allowing EC characters to perform a Heroic Intervention from greater distance? I just hope that the psychic powers aren't pants, that the Icon gains a useful ability, and marks actually do something.

Woo hoo! Looks like the GW Community site will be doing Legion focus Articles starting tomorrow!

Can't wait for the Sons of Nostramo!

 Azreal13 wrote:
Given the somehwat vague nature of what different people regard as "fine" that's not really a bet one can really take.

"Black Legion got that?! It's totally worse than anything SM got!"

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Given the somehwat vague nature of what different people regard as "fine" that's not really a bet one can really take.

"Black Legion got that?! It's totally worse than anything SM got!"

true, black Legion would have a 6+ feel no pain, and the ability to re-roll charge distances, and people would complain because they "only" got a combination of the two "worst" chapter tactics

The standard-kit isn't that bad. The main problem of the Chaos line is that you have to go to 3rd party producers to get your Combi- and heavy weapons. I'm really curious if Chaos will get Combiweapons in the codex outside of terminators - as our kits don't have any. (Don't have the raptor kit though, so I might be wrong.)
Also, there has't been a kit for Chosen. Yes, Havocs are old and got downgraded to finecast, but Chosen never even existed as a kit.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
The standard-kit isn't that bad. The main problem of the Chaos line is that you have to go to 3rd party producers to get your Combi- and heavy weapons. I'm really curious if Chaos will get Combiweapons in the codex outside of terminators - as our kits don't have any. (Don't have the raptor kit though, so I might be wrong.)
Also, there has't been a kit for Chosen. Yes, Havocs are old and got downgraded to finecast, but Chosen never even existed as a kit.

I have to disagree here. I think the standard kit i HORRIBLE. Most people agree that the helmets are fugly, but for me it is the hands. It looks like they have huge (HUGE!) gloves on. I hate them. Also we really need Chaos Marines that are bigger. Not big like Primaris marines, but same size as the new Death Guard and the Rubric Marines.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
(Don't have the raptor kit though, so I might be wrong.)

You arent wrong, the raptor/warp talon kit includes no combi weapons.

War of Sigmar

Hello everyone

by reading the white dwarf with a mag glass a friend saw this :

-Night lord trait should be : -1 ld by nl unit around you (6" and stack)
-Iron warriors : +1 in cover and -1 vs covers
-World Bearers : Reroll moral.
-Emperors Childrend : Always pile in first (WTF?)
-Black legion : +1 ld and a bonus for advancing and shooting (too small)
-World eaters : Pass all morale while in melee
-Alpha legion : Deep strike at 12" from ennemies.

Night lord stratagem is : -1 to hit.

ps : Saw someone on FB sharing nearly the same sighting.

/cheers.
bob.

Is it just me or is the Iron Warrior legion tactic amazing?

(maybe just compared to the others? night lords, word bearers, emperor's children, and world eaters all seem like absolute garbage?)

 ph34r wrote:
Is it just me or is the Iron Warrior legion tactic amazing?

(maybe just compared to the others? night lords, word bearers, emperor's children, and world eaters all seem like absolute garbage?)

yes if this is true, and I hope it isn't, each tactic is utter garbage except for Iron Warriors, which would have been middle of the pack in the Space Marine book.

 ph34r wrote:
Is it just me or is the Iron Warrior legion tactic amazing?

(maybe just compared to the others? night lords, word bearers, emperor's children, and world eaters all seem like absolute garbage?)

Night Lords can be nasty as hell, assuming you can take out LD boosting/ignore LD modifier models first.
World Eaters is fantastic, dunno what you're on about. Whenever they're in a combat--they are immune to Morale tests.
Alpha Legion is interesting.
Iron Warriors are definitely good.
Word Bearers will require a bit more detail.
Same goes with Emperor's Children--I think it's meant to be that they always strike first, even when charged.
Black Legion is going to need more detail as well.

Guess we will find out how accurate that is later today with the first Legion preview.

If that is the Iron Warriors trait, the Imperial Fists(and my Crimson Fists) will wreck them. Bring it on Caution Tape Marines!

I'm eagerly awaiting this. Chaos has always been my favorite story in Warhammer 40k, but too often has had lackluster rules. This will determine if I play regular CSM with a traitor legion or I wait until September-ish when the Death Guard get their full releases, because so far I'm trying to decide between Black Legion (I love the Sons of Horus fluff, easily my favorite 30k legion, and reading Talon of Horus gave me a newfound respect for Abaddon) or doing Death Guard (which has the bonus of cool new miniatures and a primarch in the near future, and their fluff is pretty good to where I'd certainly consider them in 30k as well)

The NL LD debuff can be nasty. Shoot a unit with butcher cannons, then charge with raptors and a lord for -5 LD? Yes please.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If that is the Iron Warriors trait, the Imperial Fists(and my Crimson Fists) will wreck them. Bring it on Caution Tape Marines!

If that's the Iron Warriors trait, I would have preferred Imperial Fists to have a comparably even one so that they don't end up being completely offensive while Iron Warriors get to enjoy both offensive and defensive bonuses.

I remain unconvinced. This army trait stuff is bogus.

I wonder what my Black Legion will get. Are they pretending to be Eldar? Figures that would be the one that's not legible...

 Geifer wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If that is the Iron Warriors trait, the Imperial Fists(and my Crimson Fists) will wreck them. Bring it on Caution Tape Marines!

If that's the Iron Warriors trait, I would have preferred Imperial Fists to have a comparably even one so that they don't end up being completely offensive while Iron Warriors get to enjoy both offensive and defensive bonuses.

I agree. Especially since the IF are supposed to be the defensive ones while the IW were the offensive ones. Still, the IW trait is pretty good.

Come back tomorrow, when we’ll be looking at the masters of siege in the 41st Millennium – the Iron Warriors.

That's an excellent trait. You just need to get to combat.