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They let slip that Possessed are one of the most improved units in the new codex by getting +1W at the same points costs.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The NL LD debuff can be nasty. Shoot a unit with butcher cannons, then charge with raptors and a lord for -5 LD? Yes please.

Leadership is less a factor now than it ever was. I played six games at the BAO this weekend, and morale came up exactly once- when my last raptor ran away.

The trait might be useful if you're charging large units of...what, tau?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
One could read between the lines of that blurb and read it as "we acknowledge they've been a bit weak for too long and we've given them a much needed shot in the arm."

But it's probably just rhetoric, what are the odds of CSM being an early edition release and actually being good?

I'll bet you 1,000,000 Internets that CSM will be just fine.

Wonder if you made that bet back in 6th too.

Didn't, and definitely wouldn't. But I'm standing by this bet. Dust off your prodigal sons and prepare to set the galaxy on fire. (Also: Death to the False Emperor!)

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The NL LD debuff can be nasty. Shoot a unit with butcher cannons, then charge with raptors and a lord for -5 LD? Yes please.

Leadership is less a factor now than it ever was. I played six games at the BAO this weekend, and morale came up exactly once- when my last raptor ran away.

The trait might be useful if you're charging large units of...what, tau?

How many units were you giving with -5 LD debuffs to?

Emperor's Children look like they will be fun.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The NL LD debuff can be nasty. Shoot a unit with butcher cannons, then charge with raptors and a lord for -5 LD? Yes please.

Leadership is less a factor now than it ever was. I played six games at the BAO this weekend, and morale came up exactly once- when my last raptor ran away.

The trait might be useful if you're charging large units of...what, tau?

How many units were you giving with -5 LD debuffs to?

None, but several had -2 LD debuffs due to raptors and spawn. I'll give you a break down of what I faced.

Orks- morale useless. Units either have a LD of 20+, or fail and lose a d3 models maximum due to warboss.

Imperial Guard- morale useless. Units lose 1 model maximum due to Commissar

Admech- Might help make a robot run away if you kill one and get the -5 you talked about. Otherwise the min squads of vanguard are dying to a charge anyway.

Ultramarines- Against the particular list I faced, useless. Armor and min squads of scouts. Against 10 man tactical squads, -5 would be very useful. You'll never see that in a competitive setting, but I play casual most of the time anyway.

Tau- would have helped against crisis teams for sure.

So, Word bearers get ATSKNF.. i'm ok with that actually. Now Possessed need to become troops for WB & (the rumored) +1W..

*please don't destory my hopes dakkadakka*

Well, possessed do get +1 W.

The EC are up first. They get always strikes first (because slaanesh, apparently), lose the dying shot thing from the index, and can use their strategem to get an infantry or bike unit to fire.

And have a psychic power that makes them deathguard (Ignore wounds on a 5+)

Yawn. Characterized as a melee army now because... whatever.*
Iron Warriors next.



*Seriously though, why this urge to pigeon-hole armies? Especially with the way the strategem and trait actually work. You want combined arms all the way down- a completely melee focused army would just be stupid.

Well, that's a surprise Emperor's Children right out the gate this time.

Flawless Perfection:

The same as the Slaaneshi Daemon ability. Where it is excellent since they have no shooting and are melee oriented. But EC are mostly shooting oriented making it a bit less useful. Still excellent on Terminators, Bikers, Helbrutes, and Warp Talons.

Delightful Agonies:

Low warp charge access to 5+ FNP for a turn, is solid.

Endless Cacophony:

2CP is kind of expensive but imagine a Havoc squad firing lascannons on turn one! Shame it doesn't effect Helbrutes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:


The EC are up first. They get always strikes first (because slaanesh, apparently), lose the dying shot thing from the index, and can use their strategem to get an infantry or bike unit to fire.

Where are you getting that they lost "Music of the Apocalypse" that is a Noise Marine specific ability; and they don't reference it at all in the article?

 Sersi wrote:
Well, that's a surprise Emperor's Children right out the gate this time.

Flawless Perfection:

The same as the Slaaneshi Daemon ability. Where it is excellent since they have no shooting and are melee oriented. But EC are mostly shooting oriented making it a bit less useful. Still excellent on Terminators, Bikers, Helbrutes, and Warp Talons.

I disagree, the ability is far less useful in slaanesh daemons since the opponent will always fallback so you never get to use it, and single counter charger unit allot of shoting armies pack will hit you first anyway.

In emperor's children it is a defensive ability kind of similar to the salamander one, since it saves you CPs on using counter assault stratagem (though it isn't anywhere near as universally useful)

The rest of the stratagems and psychic powers are both incredible, anyone else looking forward to using a full combi plasma terminator squad ? 40 plasma shots : P

Voss wrote:
Well, possessed do get +1 W.

The EC are up first. They get always strikes first (because slaanesh, apparently), lose the dying shot thing from the index, and can use their strategem to get an infantry or bike unit to fire.

And have a psychic power that makes them deathguard (Ignore wounds on a 5+)

Yawn. Characterized as a melee army now because... whatever.*
Iron Warriors next.



*Seriously though, why this urge to pigeon-hole armies? Especially with the way the strategem and trait actually work. You want combined arms all the way down- a completely melee focused army would just be stupid.

Theres a limited amount of "generalistic" rules before they basically all look the same. Slaanesh has always been a meele focused God. But where Khorne is all about brute force Slaanesh is about reflexes and speed.
Fulgrim was one of the best primarchs in meele. Just ask Guilliman.

if anything EC always had the problem in 40K that they had CC oriented rules while their iconic unit was a shooty one. It seems they can handle both now.

Hello everyone, I play Emperor's Children and I can't believe we've finally got some proper rules. The only thing I haven't seen fixed is the doom sirens (which were D3 shots last I saw but the points might get fixed, 22 pts is a bit steep.) I just wanted to point out a full squad of noisey boys armed with sonic blasters puts out 60 S4 shots, plus 60 with "endless cacophony", and then finally getting to shoot another 3 times for every noisey marine that got shot down. Noise Marines that die during the psychic and charge phase can direct their shots at a character, and if they die during the fight phase they can accrue additional attacks because DttFE triggers with their shooting attacks during fight phase.

So if an entire unit of noise Marines (20) dies in the fight phase I get approximately 90 more shots directed at your imperium character. 60 at anyone else. Prescience +1 to hit = +1 to DttFE, Icon of excess +1 to DttFE. So if I roll statistically I might be able to get 210 S4 24" shots from a 20-man squad of noise Marines. If I roll perfectly I get 240 shots.

 Galas wrote:

Voss wrote:
Well, possessed do get +1 W.

The EC are up first. They get always strikes first (because slaanesh, apparently), lose the dying shot thing from the index, and can use their strategem to get an infantry or bike unit to fire.

And have a psychic power that makes them deathguard (Ignore wounds on a 5+)

Yawn. Characterized as a melee army now because... whatever.*
Iron Warriors next.



*Seriously though, why this urge to pigeon-hole armies? Especially with the way the strategem and trait actually work. You want combined arms all the way down- a completely melee focused army would just be stupid.

Theres a limited amount of "generalistic" rules before they basically all look the same. Slaanesh has always been a meele focused God. But where Khorne is all about brute force Slaanesh is about reflexes and speed.
Fulgrim was one of the best primarchs in meele. Just ask Guilliman.

I don't even see where he says they're getting characterized as melee. The strategem is ranged and the psychic power applies to any phase. If 1 out of 3 things makes them a melee army...

The Warhammer Community post states it:

"Much like Chapter tactics, these are designed to represent the unique ways each Chaos Legion fights, from stealthy armies like the Alpha Legion, to full-on melee armies like the Emperor’s Children, who we’re looking at today."

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
Well, that's a surprise Emperor's Children right out the gate this time.

Flawless Perfection:

The same as the Slaaneshi Daemon ability. Where it is excellent since they have no shooting and are melee oriented. But EC are mostly shooting oriented making it a bit less useful. Still excellent on Terminators, Bikers, Helbrutes, and Warp Talons.

I disagree, the ability is far less useful in slaanesh daemons since the opponent will always fallback so you never get to use it, and single counter charger unit allot of shoting armies pack will hit you first anyway.

In emperor's children it is a defensive ability kind of similar to the salamander one, since it saves you CPs on using counter assault stratagem (though it isn't anywhere near as universally useful)

The rest of the stratagems and psychic powers are both incredible, anyone else looking forward to using a full combi plasma terminator squad ? 40 plasma shots : P

People always forget to look offensively and defensively at the same time. People thought the Ultramarines ability was useless vs range armies, but I pointed out it can be used offensively as well in that thread while it kept going.

When GW says possessed are the most improved unit i hope they dont mean just the 1 extra wound -_-

 EverlastingNewb wrote:
So, Word bearers get ATSKNF.. i'm ok with that actually. Now Possessed need to become troops for WB & (the rumored) +1W..

*please don't destory my hopes dakkadakka*

I have to assume that the Word Bearers are going to get a relic or stratagem that lets them more easily summon Daemons to the field.

 Dayknight wrote:

When GW says possessed are the most improved unit i hope they dont mean just the 1 extra wound -_-

That doubles their survivability. That's a pretty big improvement

The startegem is also one of the best I've seen especially if you make units that will benefit from it, like large units with special/heavy weapons.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Dayknight wrote:

When GW says possessed are the most improved unit i hope they dont mean just the 1 extra wound -_-

That doubles their survivability. That's a pretty big improvement

Doubles their survivability vs boltguns. I mean an extra wound is nothing to sneeze at but I think the people who like possessed would be happier with something that made them more effective at their role.

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Dayknight wrote:

When GW says possessed are the most improved unit i hope they dont mean just the 1 extra wound -_-

That doubles their survivability. That's a pretty big improvement

Doubles their survivability vs boltguns. I mean an extra wound is nothing to sneeze at but I think the people who like possessed would be happier with something that made them more effective at their role.

I actually think 2 wounds finally puts them in "useable" territory which indeed quite improved from unusable.

Noise Marines and the whole Slaanesh battle doctrine has always been a little weird, not being able to work out whether it wanted to be shooty or choppy and trying to do both. It seems now that they may be able to do just that - both. Sonic weaponry encourages you to sit back and shoot, or possibly advance and shoot down your foe, but the rules for EC generally rewarded you for getting into combat and showing what you'v got. With these rules a Noise Marine squad can now take all that sonic weaponry and shoot the crap out stuff with excellent firepower (huge RoF, cover ignoring and the potential for a bonus round of shooting). Then they get stuck into combat, hitting first on the charge. If your opponent chooses to stay in combat, you go first again in their turn. If they disengage you shoot the crud out them again on your next turn. And if at any point your models die they just pump out more shots/attacks. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't vs EC Noise Marines. Without dedicated combat weapons Noise Marines might not seem great in CC but when you're always going first you get to leverage more out of every attack. they might not mow through infantry like Zerkers but they're like a snowball in CC, the longer they remain in combat the more their advantages can be leveraged. And it doesn't matter if they die, in fact you may well want them to die so they can finish off nearby units before they get to do anything more.

I think the EC have a very nice set of advantages that make them quite potent. They're not as obvious as WE's CC murderfest or DG's sheer ability to hang in there but overall they get enough to be potent, and quite well-rounded.

I'm looking forward to the AL reveal. If that 12" infiltrate is real (and I expect it would be, why Gw would give AL anything but infiltrate is beyond me) then it looks like they didn't want an entire AL gunline within rapid fire range the moment the game begins. The (FW) AL Lord Arkhos characterthough gets infiltrate 9" away, as do SM scouts. I'd be a bit peeved if SM scouts get better infiltrate rules than the supposed masters of infiltrate. Despite the prospect of having everything in RF range off the bat I think AL deserve to get a 9" infiltrate. They're a one-trick army, once the game begins they've lost all their special abilities. Unless this legion trait carries over to dreadnoughts and bikers, in which case holy hell! But I doubt it. Likely (non Terminator/jump pack) infantry only, and knowing GW it might not even be all infantry.

Seems they're gonna save the BL till last. Announcing EC and IW first seems like they're revealing the lesser played legions first. Wonder if WB or NL will be third/fourth?

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Dayknight wrote:

When GW says possessed are the most improved unit i hope they dont mean just the 1 extra wound -_-

That doubles their survivability. That's a pretty big improvement

Doubles their survivability vs boltguns. I mean an extra wound is nothing to sneeze at but I think the people who like possessed would be happier with something that made them more effective at their role.

You're forgetting that people are taking Plasma Guns, which now need overcharging.

Yeah it doesn't help vs Lascannons and Melta Guns. So?

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Dayknight wrote:

When GW says possessed are the most improved unit i hope they dont mean just the 1 extra wound -_-

That doubles their survivability. That's a pretty big improvement

Doubles their survivability vs boltguns. I mean an extra wound is nothing to sneeze at but I think the people who like possessed would be happier with something that made them more effective at their role.

They are already pretty good at hitting things, since they effectively have power axes, they just aren't worth 22pts with only 1 wound.

Anyone got a random number / letter generator? GW is putting 3 random letters and numbers at the end of their preview image links now but I feel like someone can crack em and reveal the rest of the week's stuff.

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40kLegionFocus_EmpChi_Strat3cf.jpg

 andysonic1 wrote:
Anyone got a random number / letter generator? GW is putting 3 random letters and numbers at the end of their preview image links now but I feel like someone can crack em and reveal the rest of the week's stuff.

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40kLegionFocus_EmpChi_Strat3cf.jpg

Assuming you got the other part of the URL correct that is still over 46,000 combinations with no uppercase letters. Other links look to be up to 7 characters with uppercase. I could make something, but it just wouldn't be fast enough.

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40kLegionFocus_EmpChi_DelAg6fcsj.jpg

2 wounds isn't as good as it looks. There're a lot of 2 damage weapons flying around in 8th, weapons that often find their damage potential gated by models with only 1 wound. Adding Possessed to the ranks of choice units to aim those 2 damage at won't make them more alluring to take. With how much plasma people are throwing around Possessed aren't going to last much longer than they do now. They need more attacks to be competitive. 1d3 is too low when the majority of the time you'll get 1-2. this isn't enough for a proper CC unit. Chosen get 2 attacks base and they're not specifically a CC unit... Their attacks should really be 1+d3, or 2d3, so you get a minimum of 2 and a potential of 4 (or 6 if they doubled the roll). They should be a poor-mans Zerker squad, decent CC for those on a budget or not wanting to dirty themselves with Khorne's taint! In fact they should be the second best CC unit in the codex, with the likes of Mutilators, Maulers and Hellbrutes being more specialised heavy hitters and with Raptors/Warp Talons being your tactical assault/scalpel units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
Anyone got a random number / letter generator? GW is putting 3 random letters and numbers at the end of their preview image links now but I feel like someone can crack em and reveal the rest of the week's stuff.

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40kLegionFocus_EmpChi_Strat3cf.jpg

Assuming you got the other part of the URL correct that is still over 46,000 combinations with no uppercase letters. Other links look to be up to 7 characters with uppercase. I could make something, but it just wouldn't be fast enough.

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40kLegionFocus_EmpChi_DelAg6fcsj.jpg

The end of that Delightful Agonies url looks like it's listing this psychic power as the sixth on the table (at least that's what I, wagering). This leaves only 4 letters following for somebody to crack! The tricky part is predicting what these new abilities are called....

Warhams-77 wrote:
War of Sigmar

Hello everyone

by reading the white dwarf with a mag glass a friend saw this :

-Night lord trait should be : -1 ld by nl unit around you (6" and stack)
-Iron warriors : +1 in cover and -1 vs covers
-World Bearers : Reroll moral.
-Emperors Childrend : Always pile in first (WTF?)
-Black legion : +1 ld and a bonus for advancing and shooting (too small)
-World eaters : Pass all morale while in melee
-Alpha legion : Deep strike at 12" from ennemies.

Night lord stratagem is : -1 to hit.

ps : Saw someone on FB sharing nearly the same sighting.

/cheers.
bob.

So with this increasingly looking accurate, I must say that I'm a little bit disappointed in the World Eaters bonus. To me the issue is not how well Khorne units do in combat, but surviving the time they spend out of combat. So before they get into combat they have to weather one to two turns of shooting. And then they charge and face overwatch, and either wreck face (if enough survive) or do nothing (if they have already been shot up). Then the enemy falls back on their turn and they get shot again. So of these 4-5 player turns (2-3 your turn, 2-3 your opponents') they spend one in combat, where it is reasonable to think that they've either wrecked face or done not much. Either way, the threat they face more comes from opponents falling back and then opening with the shooting again. So that's only 1/4-1/5 of the time at most that they will get any benefit from this ability.

The issue I find with close combat in 8th (particularly as Khorne) is not flunking morale when I'm there, but simply weathering the shooting from yet another shooting edition. This bonus doesn't really help that.

I can see it being useful if you get shot then jump into combat. That way you avoid taking any morale casualties from shooting.
Morale is done at the end of the turn, right?