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str00dles1 wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
and the re-roll of Moral isn't too bad, I tend to look at it this way, if a space marine chapter tactic was an additional attack on a 6 how would we respond to that?

All Loyalist marines get that exact re-roll of morale in addition to their tactic. If a Space Marine chapter tactic was an additional attack on the 6 only against CSM, that would literally be an identical platform to Word Bearers...

And we get Death to the False Emperor in addition to that I guess. Getting more hits against half the game isn't exactly a bad thing, what with AM being stupid right now.

While that is true, albeit irrelevant half the time, I'm talking about Word Bearers specifically, not the other Legions. The morale bonus is fluffy and fine but their fanaticism isn't exactly represented well when every single Loyalist has an identical bonus in addition to their tactic.

edit: for the record, it's not the end of the world, but on the whole I think it's extremely disappointing

You can say that for about all of the traitor legions though. they either copied SM, or have a weaker version of what they already got.

Renegades have what World eaters should. 1 attack is crap compaired to getting to run AND charge, for the melee faction.

Which legions traits that a chaos army doesn't have access too are worse than the space marine ones apart from word bearers ?

Night Lords, Chaos Renegades, Emperor's children, World Eaters all have really strong traits when applied in the correct situation, you are also ignoring how powerful chaos space marine startegems are, veterans of the long war and Endless Cacophony are amazing easily two of the best stratagems in the game currently.

str00dles1 wrote:

You can say that for about all of the traitor legions though. they either copied SM, or have a weaker version of what they already got.

Yeah there's a lot of laziness with shared traits, but the point is that the Word Bearers' unique trait is something that all Space Marine chapters have - every single one, in addition to their trait. The Word Bearers should have also had their summoning ability be a part of their trait and their stratagem be something else entirely simply to make them unique, something like that anyway

 Rydria wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
and the re-roll of Moral isn't too bad, I tend to look at it this way, if a space marine chapter tactic was an additional attack on a 6 how would we respond to that?

All Loyalist marines get that exact re-roll of morale in addition to their tactic. If a Space Marine chapter tactic was an additional attack on the 6 only against CSM, that would literally be an identical platform to Word Bearers...

And we get Death to the False Emperor in addition to that I guess. Getting more hits against half the game isn't exactly a bad thing, what with AM being stupid right now.

While that is true, albeit irrelevant half the time, I'm talking about Word Bearers specifically, not the other Legions. The morale bonus is fluffy and fine but their fanaticism isn't exactly represented well when every single Loyalist has an identical bonus in addition to their tactic.

edit: for the record, it's not the end of the world, but on the whole I think it's extremely disappointing

You can say that for about all of the traitor legions though. they either copied SM, or have a weaker version of what they already got.

Renegades have what World eaters should. 1 attack is crap compaired to getting to run AND charge, for the melee faction.

Which legions traits that a chaos army doesn't have access too are worse than the space marine ones apart from word bearers ?

Night Lords, Chaos Renegades, Emperor's children, World Eaters all have really strong traits when applied in the correct situation, you are also ignoring how powerful chaos space marine startegems are, veterans of the long war and Endless Cacophony are amazing easily two of the best stratagems in the game currently.

That's my point though, they mostly have the same traits, or weaker like Word bearers. I wasn't talking about stratagems. World Eaters chapter tactics is not really strong in the right situations. You still need to charge, and get into melee. Running AND charging is literally 100% better. As that improves your odds greatly to do what both want to do, melee

The only trait that is weaker is word bearers because it is atsknf, and based on that logic black templars are bad because there chapter tactic is an icon of khorne.

Both Factions
Imperial Fist/Iron warriors = Bad - really good (The entire trait depends on how much terrain is on the board)
Raven Guard/Alpha Legion = Amazing vs shooting armies (Bad vs melee and alpha strike armies who do there fighting within 12inch)

Space Marines only
Ultramarines = Decent (bad vs shooting armies)
Iron Hands = Good
Salamanders = Really good
White Scars = Good
Black Templars = Good (Chaos can get this on every unit except Plague marines, Rubics and Noise Marines)

Chaos Only
Black Legion = Decent
Chaos Renegades = Really Good (This is arguably the best chapter tactic)
Night Lords = Really Good (Aweful vs fearless armies)
World eaters = Really Good (Keep in mind world eaters build around using this trait and they have access to the black Templars chapter tactic threw the icon of khorne)
Emperor's Children = Amazing vs melee armies (bad vs shooting armies)
Word Bearers = Meh (Not bad but it is meh since it is just atsknf)

Eh.
The Fist Warriors trait doesn't depend on how much terrain, it depends on how much the opponent uses terrain.
A heavy non-infantry presence (or big infantry units) means they largely can't anyway. If they want to assault or deep strike, terrain isn't really something they care about either (since it will slow assault units down in a lot of cases)


Which is the problem with the trait (and a lot of the others)- it is wholly dependent on the opponent letting you benefit from it.

On the other hand, Renegades, WE and Templars are determined by the player building around them. So the player determines how influential the trait is.

Salamanders, of course, are just benefiting all the time on everything, regardless of what either player does. Which honestly is bad design when compared to everything else.

I'm really liking the WB demon summoning, amazing for narrative or open play.

Word bearers tactic combos very well with cultists, dark apostle, and maybe a lieutenant for a dirt cheap, effective battallion. You just need to add some heavy support or fast attack to do the heavy lifting.

Is there anywhere the point changes from the index?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/630/734220.page#9534846

There may be mistakes, this is from before the point costs screenshot

bikers are 25, not 29 now.

The odd thing is rubrics no longer have a listing for the aspiring so do we pay as if it was a rubric?

Where is this pic of the new points?

demontalons wrote:
Where is this pic of the new points?

http://imgur.com/a/OuO1l

Thanks! Interesting there is no aspiring sorceror pointscost that would be huge if They went down in cost (I think they're overpriced for models that auto die on a miscast)

macluvin wrote:
Word bearers tactic combos very well with cultists, dark apostle, and maybe a lieutenant for a dirt cheap, effective battallion. You just need to add some heavy support or fast attack to do the heavy lifting.

Or just run an IW battalion and use the warlord trait. Or Abaddon. Or Huron. Who can all buff cultists better than apostle and have legion tactics which benefit other pats of their army and the cultists depending on loadout.

This is the biggest issue with word bearers, it's better to have morale immunity for a few units and then fall back on msu and naturally small squads then it is to have a weak morale rule across the legion. Because the weak morale rule and a dark apostle still leave a 10 man squad as a potential liability.

Oldmike wrote:
The odd thing is rubrics no longer have a listing for the aspiring so do we pay as if it was a rubric?

I assume so, given that's what happens for other sarge types. Could be an oversight, wait for the inevitable FAQ to be sure, but for now that's how I'd play it.

Goes a long way towards making rubrics usable tbh, that sorcerer was a horrible tax on the unit given how useless his smite was+lack of bolter. Now he is still a tax on msu, but not as horrific.

I'll just leave this here:

Holy gak. Where'd you find that?

 pretre wrote:
I'll just leave this here:

Cool.

Holy feth holy feth holy feth holy feth that is fething cool holy feth holy feth holy feth holy feth

Not feeling it. Haven't felt it since the very early leaks. Wasnt that excited for it though, and perhaps that god awful paint job is masking a better sculpt than otherwise appears.

Arachnofiend wrote:
Holy gak. Where'd you find that?

B&C.

So I'm guessing we'll see him on Warhammer Community tomorrow or Friday...

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not feeling it. Haven't felt it since the very early leaks. Wasnt that excited for it though, and perhaps that god awful paint job is masking a better sculpt than otherwise appears.

What specifically is wrong with the paintjob?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not feeling it. Haven't felt it since the very early leaks. Wasnt that excited for it though, and perhaps that god awful paint job is masking a better sculpt than otherwise appears.

Same. I'm just as dissappointed as when I saw the first Death Guard models. Might look acceptable if they used the damn colour scheme for the Death Guard and not this stupid snot green.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not feeling it. Haven't felt it since the very early leaks. Wasnt that excited for it though, and perhaps that god awful paint job is masking a better sculpt than otherwise appears.

In fairness it's a bad pic and a bad paintjob (why all the purple ). As is usual with new GW models when you see them in 360 or with a different scheme the usually look better.

I was worried that we were going to get something very Hi-Tech Miniature-ish (and I love Hi-Tech minis, but everything always has something that takes it over the top). The wings were what I was most afraid of.

I think most of what I don't like about Morty is the paint job. Give it a less snot-green paint job with the badly contrasting blue/purple (whatever it is... bad pic) and it probably works a bit better.

Otherwise... yeah. Nothing about this model does it for me in the same way Magnus and Guilliman did.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not feeling it. Haven't felt it since the very early leaks. Wasnt that excited for it though, and perhaps that god awful paint job is masking a better sculpt than otherwise appears.

What specifically is wrong with the paintjob?

What needs to be wrong with it beyond not being to my taste?

Specifically, it's entirely too bright and multicolored to be appropriate, it's also too clean, but that's inevitable given the GW studio style.

Look at 30K Morty


Look at original Daemon Morty


This deviates too far from the aesthetic of the 30K in the paint job and too far from the established image I've carried in my head for 20 plus years of the daemon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not feeling it. Haven't felt it since the very early leaks. Wasnt that excited for it though, and perhaps that god awful paint job is masking a better sculpt than otherwise appears.

In fairness it's a bad pic and a bad paintjob (why all the purple ). As is usual with new GW models when you see them in 360 or with a different scheme the usually look better.

Nah, I'm really not liking the direction of most of the big organic kits recently, plenty of the characters, infantry and vehicles, but CAD design and plastic just don't make good bedfellows for me.

Plus more fething swirly gak!!!!

Also, why did they have to go for such a fancy scythe? Looks so stupid.
Same goes for his gun and his baubles.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Also, why did they have to go for such a fancy scythe? Looks so stupid.
Same goes for his gun and his baubles.

He is a daemon

he does what he wants

also appears he has gotten THICC

As I stare at it for details I appreciate they kept his unique plasma pistol the Lantern.