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 SputnikDX wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
5 intercessors, 5 hellblasters
So good. The Intercessors take the initial hits and clean up the dangerous soft targets looking to engage the hellblasters. The hellblasters just blew up one tank after another. It was horrific what 5 hellblasters in rapid fire range can do.

Were you fighting Leman Russes? Were the Hellblasters alone enough to deal with them? How many did you take total? How did you mitigate your marines exploding under Gets Hot?

Really trying to get my Deathwatch army together and anti-vehicle is what I'm struggling to deal with. Would love some pointers.

 grouchoben wrote:
I agree on the colours, but it still feels weird. I'm thinking of repurposing my primaris chapter, keeping my yellow scheme, buying more DW pads, and painting the arm/pad black. It would be so much easier, but something's telling me to start a classic black-scheme team.

The fun thing about Deathwatch is since they come from so many different Chapters, you can make a few HQs that come from your own custom chapter to really keep them as Your Guys.

Leman Russ tanks - mix of 2 battlecannon and 2 plasma cannon models, with the dreaded (for marines) autocannon turret rounding it out. The hellblasters were good for a tank apiece when in rapid fire range (15"), but before that the stalkers were stripping off the last few wounds to finish the job.

I think 2 hellblaster/intercessor teams is the right amount. I used one, but having a second to do the job of finishing off long range targets or nailing some MEQ would have been nice. I do not recommend stalker pattern bolt rifles. I brought them over from my primaris marine list, but they really don't get much use out of SIA since they hit the AP caps easily enough. My standard bolt rifle marines were generally getting a better use of the SIA rules.

 ChargerIIC wrote:


Leman Russ tanks - mix of 2 battlecannon and 2 plasma cannon models, with the dreaded (for marines) autocannon turret rounding it out. The hellblasters were good for a tank apiece when in rapid fire range (15"), but before that the stalkers were stripping off the last few wounds to finish the job.

I think 2 hellblaster/intercessor teams is the right amount. I used one, but having a second to do the job of finishing off long range targets or nailing some MEQ would have been nice. I do not recommend stalker pattern bolt rifles. I brought them over from my primaris marine list, but they really don't get much use out of SIA since they hit the AP caps easily enough. My standard bolt rifle marines were generally getting a better use of the SIA rules.

Sweet. I'll have to give more Hellblasters a shot. I only have 1 squad and they're from Dark Imperium, which means no popping the shoulder pads off. Maybe another 1k game is in order.

As for Deathwatch Intercessor loadouts, I had a lot of success with regular rifles. S4 is always going to be somewhat crummy, but the Rifle profile means you can use hellfire rounds and still give some kind of penalty to armor, which is super sweet, and Kraken rounds were popping dudes from 36" away, much to the frustration of my opponent to get plinked from clear across the table. Also, although this isn't a Deathwatch thread, don't sleep on Stalker Boltguns (30" Heavy 2 S4 AP-1) for the regular veterans. You get half the wounds but twice the firepower of your Intercessors at the same range, assuming they don't move.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
5 Intercessors, 3 Agressor (flame), 2 Inceptor:
I had two of these and used the teleportarium stratagem to drop them in round 2. The Intercessors are little more than bullet sponges unfortunately, but the inceptors performed wonderfully. I think it would be better to only have 2 aggressors instead of 3. Then the squad will go to T5 after my first casualty.

That unit actually starts at T5 in the first place. When there's an equal number of mixed toughness, you choose.

Why choose the flamer Aggressors, though? They can't fire the turn they drop in. I think the bolt Aggressors would be better, and with the ablative wounds from the Intercessors, you'll likely be able to fire twice with em. Good to hear the Inceptors did well, though I'm surprised they did so well when the rapid fire Intercessors in that unit have more shots and the same AP, while wounding on 2s.

Lemondish wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
5 Intercessors, 3 Agressor (flame), 2 Inceptor:
I had two of these and used the teleportarium stratagem to drop them in round 2. The Intercessors are little more than bullet sponges unfortunately, but the inceptors performed wonderfully. I think it would be better to only have 2 aggressors instead of 3. Then the squad will go to T5 after my first casualty.

That unit actually starts at T5 in the first place. When there's an equal number of mixed toughness, you choose.

Why choose the flamer Aggressors, though? They can't fire the turn they drop in. I think the bolt Aggressors would be better, and with the ablative wounds from the Intercessors, you'll likely be able to fire twice with em. Good to hear the Inceptors did well, though I'm surprised they did so well when the rapid fire Intercessors in that unit have more shots and the same AP, while wounding on 2s.

I only own the flamer agressors :p They are primarily there for the power fists and anti-charge (auto-hit 2d6 per model in overwatch). I'm considering the swap to bolter, but the guns aren't much use when the kill team should be in melee as much as possible.

Inceptors are 2d3 shots per model with 2 damage per shot (when supercharging) compared to the 2 shots, 1 damage per intercessor. The ability to just fall back from an annoying counter charge is a plus.

On the mixed toughnes:, if I dropped an aggressor, I'd go down to 4 t5 models and 5 t4 models. I'd be T4 until the first intercessor dropped

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
5 Intercessors, 3 Agressor (flame), 2 Inceptor:
I had two of these and used the teleportarium stratagem to drop them in round 2. The Intercessors are little more than bullet sponges unfortunately, but the inceptors performed wonderfully. I think it would be better to only have 2 aggressors instead of 3. Then the squad will go to T5 after my first casualty.

That unit actually starts at T5 in the first place. When there's an equal number of mixed toughness, you choose.

Why choose the flamer Aggressors, though? They can't fire the turn they drop in. I think the bolt Aggressors would be better, and with the ablative wounds from the Intercessors, you'll likely be able to fire twice with em. Good to hear the Inceptors did well, though I'm surprised they did so well when the rapid fire Intercessors in that unit have more shots and the same AP, while wounding on 2s.

I only own the flamer agressors :p They are primarily there for the power fists and anti-charge (auto-hit 2d6 per model in overwatch). I'm considering the swap to bolter, but the guns aren't much use when the kill team should be in melee as much as possible.

Inceptors are 2d3 shots per model with 2 damage per shot (when supercharging) compared to the 2 shots, 1 damage per intercessor. The ability to just fall back from an annoying counter charge is a plus.

On the mixed toughnes:, if I dropped an aggressor, I'd go down to 4 t5 models and 5 t4 models. I'd be T4 until the first intercessor dropped

Why would that squad be in melee? They do way better damage outside of melee...

Sorry, thought you had bolter Inceptors. You also mentioned you'd drop an Aggressor to fit in another Inceptor - that's 5 and 5.

Has anyone tried the Repulsor? Has anyone actually used the model and done something besides look at it and go "too expensive" or "it'll just die?" Cuz I'm looking at it a little more closely - especially with Deathwatch and their (probable) relic rule that lets vehicles get Mission Tactics with their Tome of the Ectoclades - and this thing is sporting a stupid amount of firepower, as well as being able to carry mixed intercessors with Deathwatch. 5 Intercessors, 4 Hellblasters, 1 Librarian.

I'm looking at a loadout of twin lascannon, 18 S5 shots from the gatling cannons, 2D6+9-15 S4 shots from 3 storm bolters, 2 fragstorm launchers, and heavy stubber (with a nifty -1 AP), and a silly 2 S6 shots from the krakstorm launcher.

It's slow, but it just means footslogging HQs can keep it in their auras. What do you think?

The repulsor might work if you bring a Deredeo, too. That makes it more comparable to an IK. But having no invuln and 300+ points for 16W is not great.

I believe Insectum uses them and does quite well. I used to use one before my first 8th edition SM army was stolen. They can lay down an amazing amount of dakka. My advice is take as many fragstorm launchers as possible. The repulsor field is a nice little trick as well.

The base repulsor will catch every high AP weapon the enemy has, especially while loaded, because some unlucky 1's kill expensive primaris marines. Crap like the Doomsday Ark and Broadside teams make this thing a real gamble. The 5++ from the Deredeo is like giving it a total of 24W. Totally worth it. The repulsor need to be at least 50 pts cheaper to operate on its own.

That sucks someone stole your stuff.

Wow you are so toxic... Different day same poison as always.

Don't you think "toxic" is a bit extreme? It's just math...

I am going to ignore you from now on.

 Primark G wrote:
Wow you are so toxic... Different day same poison as always.

Well seeing that very few people defend the Repulsor don't you think there might be an issue somewhere?

I guess he draws the line at the repulsor. Strange place to make a stand. It's really bad at its current price.

You cannot run a Repulsor on its own. You want him in a reroll bubble, make use of its transport capacity to reduce your drops and have other vehicles in your army so it isnt your only tank.

I have him with Guilliman, Tigurius and a Fire Raptor. That way i can get -1 to hit or MoH for that sweet T9 on him. The Repulsor usually carries Hellblasters, a Lieutenant and an Ancient. If you are going Primaris only it is your only source for lascannons.

I run a Repulsor a lot with my RG primaris, and Martel is right, the lack of invuln makes it a bit of a piñata. It is a great tank thugh, having said that.

I normally run it with lascannons, double gatlings, 3 stormbolters and 2 fraglaunchers for 334pts. It lets you tuck away your hqs to get minimum drops, and with support is a really good gun platform. I personally think you have to commit it to a flank, to reduce the amount of shots it will take. It melts to parking lot guard.

Hate to bring it back to DW again, but the shield relic on a cap is a BIG deal for the repuslor, so that when you lose initiative it has that sweet 5++. Finally, Might of Heroes is obligatory on the guy, as T9 is a big deal for you opponent.

Other things I like about it: it's so mobile, and can't be tied down in cc.

Well tucking away HQs won't do me much good since it can only tuck Primaris goons away, and Deathwatch can't get Gravis caps.

Also this will sound crazy but, I was thinking of trying out 2.

@Mandragola plays two at GT level, and he's had a bit of success with them. I think 2 certainly helps, so it ain't crazy-sounding to me!

Hellblasters do great work against tanks. I have not run them against Leman Russes, though I have against Land Raiders which should give similar results. I had 1 unit of 10 that super-charged with a Chapter Master buff. 4 of them were in Rapid Fire and the other 6 were not and I brought the Land Raider down to 2 wounds remaining in one volley.

My plan is to run Intercessors with 1 Plasma Inceptor and some Hellblasters and see how that works. Not sure on the number of Hellblasters yet, but I will probably start with 4 and work down from there.

 grouchoben wrote:
@Mandragola plays two at GT level, and he's had a bit of success with them. I think 2 certainly helps, so it ain't crazy-sounding to me!

It just seems that running 1/3 of your list as two tanks with no invuln save at all is completely nuts. Repulsors cost so much that almost every Str 5 weapon in the game is cost effective against them.

Martel732 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
@Mandragola plays two at GT level, and he's had a bit of success with them. I think 2 certainly helps, so it ain't crazy-sounding to me!

It just seems that running 1/3 of your list as two tanks with no invuln save at all is completely nuts. Repulsors cost so much that almost every Str 5 weapon in the game is cost effective against them.

Sounds worth testing:

340 points is the cost of the Repulsor kit I like, so we'll pit 340 points worth of S5 weapons and see how much damage we can deal. I'm not going to include the cost of the models carrying them, because that would be unfair. For the sake of hilarity, I'll add some S6 and S7 weapons as well.

Heavy Bolter: 34 weapons, 102 shots, 11 unsaved wounds.
Heavy Phosphor Blaster: 22 weapons, 66 shots, 7 unsaved wounds.
Assault Cannon: 15 weapons, 90 shots, 10 unsaved wounds.
Autocannons: 22 weapons, 44 shots, 10 unsaved wounds.
Reaper Launcher (Starswarm Profile): 15 weapons, 30 shots, 8 unsaved wounds.
Reaper Launcher (Missile Profile): 15 weapons, 15 shots, 12 unsaved wounds.
Disintegrator Cannon: 34 weapons, 102 shots, 24 unsaved wounds.

Conclusion: The Disintegrator Cannon is almost every Str 5 weapon in the game.

If your opponent is shooting S5 ranged weapons at your Repulsor that is probably a good thing for you.

I'm not sure that's the best analysis, but I'm actually shocked at how many wounds those weapons actually cause. Turns out that when the target is over 20 pts/wound, lots of weapons are cost effective.

Compare to what's cost effective vs Leman Russ sitting at a paltry 13 ish pts/W for an average build. The answer is a lot fewer options.

The repulsor needs to be down closer the Russ in terms of pts/W to be a viable choice, imo.

Martel732 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
@Mandragola plays two at GT level, and he's had a bit of success with them. I think 2 certainly helps, so it ain't crazy-sounding to me!

It just seems that running 1/3 of your list as two tanks with no invuln save at all is completely nuts. Repulsors cost so much that almost every Str 5 weapon in the game is cost effective against them.

Same goes for all those 3-7 flyer lists, yet we keep seeing the darn things. Must be something to bringing that much solid metal to the table.

Having 1/3 of the list be 2 models vs 3-7 models is VERY different. Those flyers are bringing FAR more wounds to the table and many have -1 to hit. The repulsor enjoys no such benefits without sinking even more points into the adventure. Like Tiggy, who can only buff one chapter. It's also worth noting that T9 doesn't help vs S5-7 weapons at all, which are the evolving meta.

I'd feel better about the repulsor if it also made the occupants immune to explosion death. But the guy who lost 4 hellblasters to repulsor explosion conceded on the spot. "Insta slay" mechanics are super harsh for primaris.

Primaris are close. They need the meta steered away from 2 damage spam, and some more mobility options. And maybe a couple more units. Heavy weapons that AREN'T plasma for starters.

In my play group, quantum shields tipped the meta completely against primaris. 2-3 damage spam is the new king, because no one wants to bring expensive weapons that can't demech Necrons.

When I ran a Repulsor Tigirius made it -1 to hit and T9. Good times.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not sure that's the best analysis, but I'm actually shocked at how many wounds those weapons actually cause. Turns out that when the target is over 20 pts/wound, lots of weapons are cost effective.

Compare to what's cost effective vs Leman Russ sitting at a paltry 13 ish pts/W for an average build. The answer is a lot fewer options.

The repulsor needs to be down closer the Russ in terms of pts/W to be a viable choice, imo.

Maybe when the Repulsor can't fly or transport units, only hits on 4s, and only has at most 4 guns. You pay for a dakkabox.

 Primark G wrote:
When I ran a Repulsor Tigirius made it -1 to hit and T9. Good times.

That sounds disgusting. I'm hoping to keep mine near a Watch Master for reroll hits and giving him the tome of ectoclades to give them access to the mission tactics.

"Maybe when the Repulsor can't fly or transport units, only hits on 4s, and only has at most 4 guns. You pay for a dakkabox."

Those things just aren't worth it. Not to go from 13 pts/W to over 20 pts/W. None of the repulsor's special abilities help it survive incoming fire, and that just kills it. I'm not even sure how effective the repulsor's armament is in the current meta. It needs to be a lot cheaper, or gun lines need to pay more for their guns.

Leman Russes are hot garbage. All you have to do is charge them and they can't shoot next turn. Harlequins completely shut them down. They are not worth any points and pretty much just for casual play so you can make pew pew sounds.

So Onegars and razorbacks and predators and devs and reapers and immortals and obliterators are all "hot garbage" too, because "All you have to do is charge them and they can't shoot next turn"?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel, I agree that Repulsors need a defensive buff - that's why I think they might work quite well in DW, with the Storm shield relic for the 5++, and 1s rerolls, on a jumpcap.