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I've got both space marine and Ork armies. If I make a 50pl space marine army - I can push the point value out past 1100-1200 points. I do the same with pretty much any combo of orks and I'm getting 700-900 points max (900 taking every upgrade I possibly can and taking the most point efficient units I can).

Here's a pretty big pet peeve for me. Orks; Deff Dread is 8 power level. Space Marines; Venerable dread is 8 power level. Tell me in what way is a 6+ FNP, 2+ weapon and ballistic skill with the same amount of wounds anywhere close to a Deff Dread's 3+ Ws/5+ Bs, and even maxed out on CC arms it doesn't have as many attacks as a venerable dread.

I love Orks for the fluff but aside from boyz and stormboyz I can't see a single unit that isn't rediculously over-costed in points or power level. I mean; a truck is the same power level cost as a razorback. Even points wise I feel like I'm getting screwed running an evil sunz army. Deff koptas are hilariously over costed - they have no save 4+ doesn't do much) and if they're caught out in a single shooting phase there's no way they're going to make it. I've played 2-3 games with Killa Kanz and while their shooting is 'not terrible' they just don't have any staying power with the amount of -AP weaponry that pretty much any race can bring.

Sigh... End rant.

 Xicsess wrote:

I've got both space marine and Ork armies. If I make a 50pl space marine army - I can push the point value out past 1100-1200 points. I do the same with pretty much any combo of orks and I'm getting 700-900 points max (900 taking every upgrade I possibly can and taking the most point efficient units I can).

Here's a pretty big pet peeve for me. Orks; Deff Dread is 8 power level. Space Marines; Venerable dread is 8 power level. Tell me in what way is a 6+ FNP, 2+ weapon and ballistic skill with the same amount of wounds anywhere close to a Deff Dread's 3+ Ws/5+ Bs, and even maxed out on CC arms it doesn't have as many attacks as a venerable dread.

I love Orks for the fluff but aside from boyz and stormboyz I can't see a single unit that isn't rediculously over-costed in points or power level. I mean; a truck is the same power level cost as a razorback. Even points wise I feel like I'm getting screwed running an evil sunz army. Deff koptas are hilariously over costed - they have no save 4+ doesn't do much) and if they're caught out in a single shooting phase there's no way they're going to make it. I've played 2-3 games with Killa Kanz and while their shooting is 'not terrible' they just don't have any staying power with the amount of -AP weaponry that pretty much any race can bring.

Sigh... End rant.

maybe Ork "Klan Taktics" will give orks a nice big, deserved, boost.

@BrianDavion

I hope so. Really hope they'll relook orks, their extremely poor saves and lack of invuln (compared to other codexes) is really a kick in the teeth.

Here is a hint, don't use PL if you want to have a good time.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Here is a hint, don't use PL if you want to have a good time.

Ork units are massively over priced in points as well. Or are you part of the crowd that thinks a Stompa should be almost 1,000pts. Or a Trukk should be 85pts.

Basically every unit in the ork codex with the possible POSSIBLE exception of Ork Boyz is over priced. I would say that about 2/3rds of my Ork units are now sitting on a shelf because I will never bring them to a game because I know how crap they are atm.

Well, nothing new here, 3/4 of the book is overpriced. Currently our non-overpriced and thus, most effective units are boyz and buff characters. Nobz and tankbustas cost ok but they need transports that are in turn overpriced dragging those two down with them. Big/mek gunz are probably ok for pure durability on the backfield objectives but the damage output is quite bad.

Yes , had a few games and my impression is the same. The only decently efficient units are boyz, stormboyz, Tankbustas, Warboss, Weridboy, some characters and possibly Lootas. Everything else cost just too much.

Also the shooting is really overpowering and with the current rule for fallback, combat units get the end of the stick almost all the time. Orks dont shoot well and pay a LOT for it.

They are kind of competitive on maelstrom but its a matter of quickly amass victory points before being annihilated. Not sure if it is fun in the long term though....

rugludvanguard wrote:
Yes , had a few games and my impression is the same. The only decently efficient units are boyz, stormboyz, Tankbustas, Warboss, Weridboy, some characters and possibly Lootas. Everything else cost just too much.

Also the shooting is really overpowering and with the current rule for fallback, combat units get the end of the stick almost all the time. Orks dont shoot well and pay a LOT for it.

They are kind of competitive on maelstrom but its a matter of quickly amass victory points before being annihilated. Not sure if it is fun in the long term though....

Yeah, stormboyz are also fairly priced.

 koooaei wrote:

rugludvanguard wrote:
Yes , had a few games and my impression is the same. The only decently efficient units are boyz, stormboyz, Tankbustas, Warboss, Weridboy, some characters and possibly Lootas. Everything else cost just too much.

Also the shooting is really overpowering and with the current rule for fallback, combat units get the end of the stick almost all the time. Orks dont shoot well and pay a LOT for it.

They are kind of competitive on maelstrom but its a matter of quickly amass victory points before being annihilated. Not sure if it is fun in the long term though....

Yeah, stormboyz are also fairly priced.

especially this edition. before 12 Boyz paid 35pts for a Trukk to stay safe and move fast, this edition 20 Stormboyz pay 40pts to move 12 where as those same boyz now have to pay 85pts for the trukk.

I'm glad its not just me, when I looked through the space marine codex and saw that other than boyz and stormboyz their options were pretty similarly priced for significantly better toughness, saves, and shooting skill it was surprising.

 Xicsess wrote:

I've got both space marine and Ork armies. If I make a 50pl space marine army - I can push the point value out past 1100-1200 points. I do the same with pretty much any combo of orks and I'm getting 700-900 points max (900 taking every upgrade I possibly can and taking the most point efficient units I can).

Here's a pretty big pet peeve for me. Orks; Deff Dread is 8 power level. Space Marines; Venerable dread is 8 power level. Tell me in what way is a 6+ FNP, 2+ weapon and ballistic skill with the same amount of wounds anywhere close to a Deff Dread's 3+ Ws/5+ Bs, and even maxed out on CC arms it doesn't have as many attacks as a venerable dread.

I love Orks for the fluff but aside from boyz and stormboyz I can't see a single unit that isn't rediculously over-costed in points or power level. I mean; a truck is the same power level cost as a razorback. Even points wise I feel like I'm getting screwed running an evil sunz army. Deff koptas are hilariously over costed - they have no save 4+ doesn't do much) and if they're caught out in a single shooting phase there's no way they're going to make it. I've played 2-3 games with Killa Kanz and while their shooting is 'not terrible' they just don't have any staying power with the amount of -AP weaponry that pretty much any race can bring.

Sigh... End rant.

To be fair a Deff Dread with all CC arms has 2 more attacks than a ven dread (6 attacks vs 4 for the ven dread). Also I'm sure you can get the points per power level up for orks, it just won't be good

PL 50
Vanguard detachment
Warboss on bike w/ PK and Kombi-Rokkit 5PL
2 x 10 Nobz w/Killsaws and Kombi-rokkits 10 ammo runts 21PL each
Mek Killsaw, kombi-rokkit 2 PL

1581 points

So it is terrible, but you can get a ton of points if you want to.

Much of the rest if mostly true.

Good points, I guess I haven't looked a ton a nobz and their upgrades. I must have mis-read the dread entry. I didn't realize the first two arms added attacks for some reason.

Some ork thigns do better in Power levels, Battlewagons can take defrola, ardcase, killkannon, and 4 rokkits for free. 4 rokkits on kill tanks is pretty nice too when its not upping the cost of taking the model. Nobs can get lots of free upgrades and kind of come away under their points cost in PLs. Mek guns can be taken in pretty decent quantity at PL since you don't need to pay to upgrade the gun. Other things get totally hosed, like you have to keep truck boy squads at 10 models since the PL goes up the full amount to the next level even if you are only adding the 11th and 12th boy, etc. I think you can have fun with the big stuff in orks and take all the uprgardes in PL games but as suggested Points is better balanced, and even then this index was based on the last codex, where everything was already overpriced and just got more so when they updated it to 8th and forgot that there were no armywide or character aura buffs to vehicles, shooting, and that the entire army only hits on 5's for the most part. I also think that they themselves didnt even realize the impact of toughness/wounding chart when pricing models and weapons. +1 str or +1 T often has a very small impact with the new system where you are at 3+ to wound until you double toughness, and a lot of the weapons look like they forgot about that, and thats outside the obvious oops ones like hurricane bolters.