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Dunno about that, they also produce scribes, munitorum officers, Sororitas and Inquisitors, so it may just be the Prefectus and Militarum Tempestus who are off the rails during training.

 BrookM wrote:
Worst cadets? Wait, what?

In order to pass you must execute the other cadet.

In all seriousness though, this is just another horribly edgy bit of writing on part of the GW design studio.

Is it effectively a duel between the two or is the other cadet just an unwitting pawn/target in the test? I suppose that's added incentive to not score in the bottom 50% percentile by graduation in the Schola....

No, not a duel, the other cadet is unwitting. It could be to weed out the weaker elements, or to simply make good cadets even better.

The example from the codex has the protagonist handed a charged laspistol and told to go to the chapel where his comrade is praying, then shoot him.

 BrookM wrote:
Dunno about that, they also produce scribes, munitorum officers, Sororitas and Inquisitors, so it may just be the Prefectus and Militarum Tempestus who are off the rails during training.

Yes, sorry, I meant primarily the Tempestus section.

 BrookM wrote:
Worst cadets? Wait, what?

In order to pass you must execute the other cadet.

In all seriousness though, this is just another horribly edgy bit of writing on part of the GW design studio.

It actually really fits in with the atmosphere of 40k. Commissars are one of the grimdarker bits of Imperium fluff.
Besides, it makes sense. A commissar can't always afford compassion and mercy, so you need to teach them that. When the time comes, a commissar needs to do his/her duty without hesitating because of compassion. And losing half your cadets is no problem when you have as much people as the Imperium does. Life is expendable.

Which I have said so, twice, in other posts now.

 BrookM wrote:
Which I have said so, twice, in other posts now.

No, you said it is "horribly edgy" when in fact it fits in seamlessly with the general tone of 40k as a whole. It is not edgy if it does not stand out from the rest.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Which I have said so, twice, in other posts now.

No, you said it is "horribly edgy" when in fact it fits in seamlessly with the general tone of 40k as a whole. It is not edgy if it does not stand out from the rest.

No, it really is horribly edgy. It doesn't make Comissars any more terrifying, it just makes them incredibly one dimensional. It makes them people who kill on command regardless of their own intuition. Shooting their fellow cadets, regardless of that cadets performance or any reason, is idiotic and any commissar who actually follows that line of thought through in battle will be killed or allowed to be killed by their own soldiers. This method of training pretty much guarantees that only the most psychopathic survive and they are the least fit to actually lead men in an effective way.

There's a reason that the most famous and celebrated Commissars (Gaunt, Cain, Yarrick) in 40K are those who led through example, intelligence and inspiration rather than fear (even if one of them achieved that purely by accident and then had to appear to live up to that to continue to survive).

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Which I have said so, twice, in other posts now.

No, you said it is "horribly edgy" when in fact it fits in seamlessly with the general tone of 40k as a whole. It is not edgy if it does not stand out from the rest.

No, it really is horribly edgy. It doesn't make Comissars any more terrifying, it just makes them incredibly one dimensional. It makes them people who kill on command regardless of their own intuition. Shooting their fellow cadets, regardless of that cadets performance or any reason, is idiotic and any commissar who actually follows that line of thought through in battle will be killed or allowed to be killed by their own soldiers. This method of training pretty much guarantees that only the most psychopathic survive and they are the least fit to actually lead men in an effective way.

There's a reason that the most famous and celebrated Commissars (Gaunt, Cain, Yarrick) in 40K are those who led through example, intelligence and inspiration rather than fear (even if one of them achieved that purely by accident and then had to appear to live up to that to continue to survive).

A Commissar does have to kill on command. Commissars are supposed to inspire their men, but when words are not enough they must not even have the slightest hesitation about shooting them to force them onwards. A good commissar is one that is more feared by his own men than the enemy is. The very best commissars do not need fear at all, but not everyone can be one of the very best. That is why commissars must be able to kill their comrades without hesitation. That is their duty. Commissars must be psychopaths. The ability to shoot their friends in the back without hesitation is their whole raison d'être.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Which I have said so, twice, in other posts now.

No, you said it is "horribly edgy" when in fact it fits in seamlessly with the general tone of 40k as a whole. It is not edgy if it does not stand out from the rest.

No, it really is horribly edgy. It doesn't make Comissars any more terrifying, it just makes them incredibly one dimensional. It makes them people who kill on command regardless of their own intuition. Shooting their fellow cadets, regardless of that cadets performance or any reason, is idiotic and any commissar who actually follows that line of thought through in battle will be killed or allowed to be killed by their own soldiers. This method of training pretty much guarantees that only the most psychopathic survive and they are the least fit to actually lead men in an effective way.

There's a reason that the most famous and celebrated Commissars (Gaunt, Cain, Yarrick) in 40K are those who led through example, intelligence and inspiration rather than fear (even if one of them achieved that purely by accident and then had to appear to live up to that to continue to survive).

And yet this is the same Imperial Guard that has Chenkov continue to exist, and continue making medals sacrificing millions of guardsmen upon the battlefield.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

No, you said it is "horribly edgy" when in fact it fits in seamlessly with the general tone of 40k as a whole. It is not edgy if it does not stand out from the rest.

An indoctrination programme coupled with intensive chem therapy that would make the Commissars unable to form emotional attachments to other human beings would fit with the general tone of 40k. Executing your best friend is the kind of stuff one expects from a dystopian YA novel.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

No, you said it is "horribly edgy" when in fact it fits in seamlessly with the general tone of 40k as a whole. It is not edgy if it does not stand out from the rest.

An indoctrination programme coupled with intensive chem therapy that would make the Commissars unable to form emotional attachments to other human beings would fit with the general tone of 40k. Executing your best friend is the kind of stuff one expects from a dystopian YA novel.

Yeah, it's more than a little over the top and certainly ridiculous. I am surprised it is in the latest codex.

Still, we'll be free to ignore that in our RPG setting, if we want!

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

No, you said it is "horribly edgy" when in fact it fits in seamlessly with the general tone of 40k as a whole. It is not edgy if it does not stand out from the rest.

An indoctrination programme coupled with intensive chem therapy that would make the Commissars unable to form emotional attachments to other human beings would fit with the general tone of 40k. Executing your best friend is the kind of stuff one expects from a dystopian YA novel.

Is not that it is not proper 40k. It is. The problem is with how gratuituous its throw away in the Codex fluff. Is like... the author didn't even care to think about something with a bit more thought put into it. He went for the easy way. Its a meh at best, all the Tempestus Scions 7th Codex's Fluff.

Take it to the fluff forum, guys.

Looking forward to Free RPG day!

I will watch for a GenCon announcement and/or discussion panel to attend

 kronk wrote:

Looking forward to Free RPG day!

I will watch for a Gen Con announcement and/or discussion panel to attend

Not too long ago, Kaiser did a livestream while they drew the third intro comic for Wrath & Glory. There was a Ulisses NA rep in chilling in the chat box as well. The UNA rep rather cagily mentioned that they'd have some kind Wrath & Glory announcement at Origins. My wild speculations are that either Wrath & Glory will go on pre-sale at Origins with an option to pick up it up at Gen Con or Ulisses NA will have their Free RPG Day Quickstart available at their booth during Origins. That's last bit of wild speculation is based on the fact June 17 is both Free RPG Day and the last day of Origins.

As for Gen Con... It's pretty much guaranteed that Ulisses NA will be running demo games. There's also a good chance your GM could be a fellow Dakkaite.

I know he's not a moderator, but, what Kronk said.

Keep this thread on-topic, but feel free to start a thread in the 40k Background forum to discuss this.

new pic today

 EnTyme wrote:
That's honestly the best way to handle any RPG. Some scenarios work great with Theatre of the Mind, but you should always be able to use minis for the encounters where positioning and cover are important.

Only if you've got a table handy. I've played 3rd ed D&D and the IKRPG 2nd edition without miniatures with no issues. In fact, using miniatures with the IKRPG was worse because we were all crowded round a coffee table.

Loving the artwork

the rest looks pretty good.

I hope they have a mechanic to decide who goes first if the players can't decide (even if it's just a simple roll off).

I wonder if the bad guys get to act again if the numbers don't work or if its just a Big Bad?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
That's honestly the best way to handle any RPG. Some scenarios work great with Theatre of the Mind, but you should always be able to use minis for the encounters where positioning and cover are important.

Only if you've got a table handy. I've played 3rd ed D&D and the IKRPG 2nd edition without miniatures with no issues. In fact, using miniatures with the IKRPG was worse because we were all crowded round a coffee table.

Whiteboards are also a great way to let people know is going on, though they're somewhat less common unless you're a student group who meets up to play in an empty classroom.

With regards the comic, we used a somewhat similar system in our house-ruled FATEcore/Accelerated Dresden Files game. Big difference is we could nominate our other fellow PCs to act after us rather than enemies. First person was decided by the narrative and/or peoples skills and powers (the super fast inhuman abilities of fey and vampire characters were highly useful here). The last person to act in a round would nominate the person to start the next round (inhumanly fast people could seize the initiative, however, if they were faster than the person being nominated).

So you could go with all the PCs one after the other for a massive alpha strike but then be left with all the remaining enemies free to act together and then nominate themselves to start the next round. Or you could stagger the PC activations. It sped up simple encounters as we could basically instantly blitz them (not many normal human mooks can stand up to a fey unicorn pegasus with a carriage, black ops part spider monster thing, friendly neighbourhood pawnbroker magician who once blew up Montserrat, Scion of Thor complete with Mjolnir to act as his magical focus of his lightning based smiting, vampire hunter descended from Van Helsing and a drunken Irish terrorist with divine powers), but the harder fights were still a challenge as the supernatural creatures had the abilities and powers to steal the initiative at the beginnings of rounds or were suitably tough to withstand our attacks and leave us high and dry with no option to counter them if we tried to alpha strike them.

Don't forget the news at the bottom of the final comic page..

Eager to try Wrath & Glory for yourself? Look for your first opportunities in June of 2018!
A Quickstart will be available through Free RPG Day! Make sure your local game store is participating!
And the very first public demo sessions will be at Origins Game Fair in Columbus, Ohio! Play with the designers and hang out with the team!
Keep watching this website for more details!

I was worried at first, but the more I read about it and talk to friends about it, I think the simplicty of this new system is a really great thing. the FF RPGs could be a bit daunting at times for my friends, who like the setting but aren't diehard 40k fans. They want to play 40k RPGs, but just couldn't get into the rules. This looks alot more user friendly, and I think thats gonna attract alot of people to playing this game. I'm excited!

This looks like exactly what I want from any RPG. It seems simple, fresh and modern. If it had Fate style keyword tagging as well I'd be ecstatic. I love the FFG 40k RPGs for their in depth background but the system was frankly terrible.

Looking forward to finding out more about character creation.

 BrookM wrote:
Worst cadets? Wait, what?

In order to pass you must execute the other cadet.

Yes, morally speaking these are your worst cadets.

The whole of 40K wreaks of edgelordism that appeals to 13 year old boys of all ages and genders. Even I am not immune to its lure, but some of it is bordering on Paranoia/Dredd parody rather than grimdark. Would be fine as commentary, but I think the current studio actually believes in it. Heaven knows the *chans do.

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Worst cadets? Wait, what?

In order to pass you must execute the other cadet.

Yes, morally speaking these are your worst cadets.

The whole of 40K wreaks of edgelordism that appeals to 13 year old boys of all ages and genders. Even I am not immune to its lure, but some of it is bordering on Paranoia/Dredd parody rather than grimdark. Would be fine as commentary, but I think the current studio actually believes in it. Heaven knows the *chans do.

Sweeping generalizations aside.

I tend to ignore that part of the Schola, it could simply be just a few of the Scholas that function that way. We know they (GW) have a history of saying something is one way everywhere and then giving examples of how that isnt the case later on down the road. It's your free pass to ignore what you dont like.

I'm starting to feel the system may be TOO simple, even when compared to 5E, but I'm quite excited to try it out to figure it out for myself if I like it or not.

Oh, and this comic is absolutely fantastic to show how a system works <3

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Worst cadets? Wait, what?

In order to pass you must execute the other cadet.

Yes, morally speaking these are your worst cadets.

The whole of 40K wreaks of edgelordism that appeals to 13 year old boys of all ages and genders. Even I am not immune to its lure, but some of it is bordering on Paranoia/Dredd parody rather than grimdark. Would be fine as commentary, but I think the current studio actually believes in it. Heaven knows the *chans do.

Sweeping generalizations aside.

I tend to ignore that part of the Schola, it could simply be just a few of the Scholas that function that way. We know they (GW) have a history of saying something is one way everywhere and then giving examples of how that isnt the case later on down the road. It's your free pass to ignore what you dont like.

Indeed the Cain novels Schola was much more interesting to me - mostly typical British public school but with live firing on prisoners and interrogation classes. Just as dark but a bit more subtle.

They may adjust it - All Commissars used to have to be men - not now, same with the newer version of the Imperial Knights - that's gone.

Chairman Aeon wrote:
The whole of 40K wreaks of edgelordism that appeals to 13 year old boys of all ages and genders. Even I am not immune to its lure, but some of it is bordering on Paranoia/Dredd parody rather than grimdark. Would be fine as commentary, but I think the current studio actually believes in it. Heaven knows the *chans do.

Not sure you're familiar with Warhammer 40k, but it kind of is a parody. That kind of is exactly what it was intended to be from the start. You know, right about the time another parody called Judge Dredd was coming to be. GW actually made the miniatures for the Judge Dredd miniatures game.

Also, the 'Chans' don't believe it. But they are keenly aware that certain God-Emperor memes send certain people into a flying, screeching rage and that, for some reason, is humorous to them. No one actually 'believes' in this stuff. It's just a gag. Might wanna step it back a bit and take a chill pill.

On to the matter at hand, I'm starting to worry that the character 'class' options may become too simplified. I was genuinely hoping for a game that let players choose to be a squad of Primaris Marines, or perhaps a Deathwatch Kill-Team, maybe even a group of Heretics with both traitor Astartes and human heretics. I was even hoping for the ability to play a Heresy-Era campaign.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Indeed the Cain novels Schola was much more interesting to me - mostly typical British public school but with live firing on prisoners and interrogation classes. Just as dark but a bit more subtle.

They may adjust it - All Commissars used to have to be men - not now, same with the newer version of the Imperial Knights - that's gone.

As I understood, you didn't have to 'kill' every other Cadet. There was just a brief story in the Tempestus Scions book where a guy was told to take a laspistol and shoot his friend in the school. The results of that aren't stated- for all we know, the pistol could have not fired. It was also implied that the two were getting far too close, something they don't want Commissars doing.

And I'm not sure where Commissars being all men came from, it might be true- but it did seem like they tried to put as many women as possible in the Sororitas