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 Overread wrote:
I think the forums closed last night or thereabouts; the store closed at some point today alongside it.

They did, yes. Which is why it's so infuriating, because everything that was on the forum, including the 3.0 rules glimpses that could be used for the game, is now unavailable. If you didn't make copies before, you're f..ed. They didn't have to shut them down so quickly. They did it because I'm pretty sure they expected the negative backlash on them after the announcement and just didn't want to deal with it.

I'm saving the rules on my computer from the official website. I have no doubt it will also be shutdown sooner or later. By looking at the way how it was done, I wouldn't be surprised if Neil just moves away while burning all the bridges behind.

Holy cow. That's sudden. And unfortunate. I hope somebody is able to pick up all the Firestorm stuff and focus on that.

That's sad. I only just got the funds to buy some of the FSA stuff I wanted.

Ebay... Or see if a FLGS has some old stock left behind.

I was going to suggest anyone with significant amounts of product outstanding register with the Official Receiver as a creditor of Rebel Publishing Ltd in the hope that they may at least get back some pennies on the pound at some point, but having checked out their most recent submitted P+L there's what appears to be a significant amount owed to a bank from only a few years ago, and their liabilities were running significantly ahead of their assets, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Pursuing a claim through a card payment protection plan look said to be the best option, if indeed it is an option, which I don't think KS purchases count for.

Hopefully the individual who is ill will be able to recover without the strain of running the business to deal with. It is a shame as I enjoy dystopian wars, and would have liked to have found more players. Commiserations to those who lost jobs, orders, assets etc.

hope someone picks up firestorm armada and uncharted seas.

They were a small company who were biting off more than they can chew with what seemed like a new game every other year rather than giving games constant support.

Uncharted is the most likely to get lost, it was a good game and started Spartan off, but its hardly got much of a market left and most of the sculpts for it were a lot older. Unless its bought in bulk with others I think Uncharted is sunk fully - the other games though have potential to be picked up. Still lots of good model lines die off or just become models sold in a company collection instead of focused development (eg Reaper has a lot of miniatures that are just one-offs or sold without rules/games).

If I had the cash I would totally pickup the Planetside line and create a new game out of it.

If only Spartan had realized the potential of that.

Instead, as usual, pumped out and forgotten. Another reason why retailers stopped desiring their products.

 Vertrucio wrote:
If I had the cash I would totally pickup the Planetside line and create a new game out of it.

If only Spartan had realized the potential of that.

Instead, as usual, pumped out and forgotten. Another reason why retailers stopped desiring their products.

And the perception of them pumping and dumping product lines cyclically (regardless of whether or not its true as argued in this thread) has been around for years and they've seemingly done nothing to combat it. I was warned about it two years ago when I was considering getting into Halo Fleet Battles and I had heard about it for years on dakka prior to that... and yet they continued in my experience to do exactly what was predicted yet again only now with a likely expensive license with yearly fees and additional overhead that they didn't have to deal with on their own internal IPs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sarouan wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I think the forums closed last night or thereabouts; the store closed at some point today alongside it.

They did, yes. Which is why it's so infuriating, because everything that was on the forum, including the 3.0 rules glimpses that could be used for the game, is now unavailable. If you didn't make copies before, you're f..ed. They didn't have to shut them down so quickly. They did it because I'm pretty sure they expected the negative backlash on them after the announcement and just didn't want to deal with it.

I'm saving the rules on my computer from the official website. I have no doubt it will also be shutdown sooner or later. By looking at the way how it was done, I wouldn't be surprised if Neil just moves away while burning all the bridges behind.

Yeah, that's poor form. I wonder if there was a financial reason for the sudden abrupt nature as I doubt the closure of the forum affected their bottom line that much. Forum software can be free or close to it if and would likely have been paid on a monthly basis or even in advance. It feels like maybe they were either trying to get ahead of the news that was going to leak and/or quickly closed up to avoid some sort of contractual terms that were about to kick in.

DANGIT! I've been putting off buying that 1/100 Pelican since it came out, had it in a cart ready for checkout so many times including just last night. Looks like I dodged a bullet by not buying it last night. Holy heck that seamed sudden.

 warboss wrote:

 nicromancer wrote:
Halo could have been a license to rpint money if they just made it 40k heroic scale.
At the very least they'd have a steady trickle of sales from people using their vehicles and spartan figures in other games.
But 15mm massed infantry sci fi? That's suicide.

I took out my own quote because it was embarrassing how bad my own typos, autocorrects, and half edited sentences were. Yeah, 15mm for halo was a misstep for the brand. In an IP where the core game never goes above 16 v 16 (at least in Halo 1-4 and Reach) and is heavily focused despite being a shooter on individual characters, it would seem like a no brainer that a skirmish game in a scale where those individual character figs would impress (like 30+mm) would be the best fit to lead off with. I was excited about Halo Fleet Battles and bought into it relatively heavily for me personally ($250+) but I was surprised that they decided to lead with a ship game despite my own unfulfilled long standing interest in the genre.

I don't think the problem was 15mm, the problem was how darn EXPENSIVE they were for 15mm and I have no doubt the real reason it sold poorly was the price more than the scale. 15mm scifi is niche, but there's a VERY dedicated following within that niche and a lot of us were thinking Halo:GC would be a great way to bridge more players in to the 15mm scene, but not at those prices!. The main box was decent value, but $35 for a single Scorpion tank at online discount price is ridiculous. I had been REALLY excited for the game to release and intended to buy a full GRUNTZ army worth of figures but even I had balked at the prices and only got the main starter set. Now I'm scrambling to pick up what I can before it's gone.

I'm not sure that 28mm skirmish is the right way to go for Halo, you can't simply recreate the videogame on tabletop. They tried to do exactly that with the godawful Haloclix game and it sold poorly because it just wasn't a god game (great figs tho). Something along the lines of where Star Wars Legion is headed might be good if done right, a couple dozen figs in small units per side and some vehicles. Maybe something like Bolt Action scale, a small platoon and a tank. Wouldn't have happened at Spartan Games prices though, would've been like $70 for a 28mm tank!

 Kalamadea wrote:
DANGIT! I've been putting off buying that 1/100 Pelican since it came out, had it in a cart ready for checkout so many times including just last night. Looks like I dodged a bullet by not buying it last night. Holy heck that seamed sudden.

 warboss wrote:

 nicromancer wrote:
Halo could have been a license to rpint money if they just made it 40k heroic scale.
At the very least they'd have a steady trickle of sales from people using their vehicles and spartan figures in other games.
But 15mm massed infantry sci fi? That's suicide.

I took out my own quote because it was embarrassing how bad my own typos, autocorrects, and half edited sentences were. Yeah, 15mm for halo was a misstep for the brand. In an IP where the core game never goes above 16 v 16 (at least in Halo 1-4 and Reach) and is heavily focused despite being a shooter on individual characters, it would seem like a no brainer that a skirmish game in a scale where those individual character figs would impress (like 30+mm) would be the best fit to lead off with. I was excited about Halo Fleet Battles and bought into it relatively heavily for me personally ($250+) but I was surprised that they decided to lead with a ship game despite my own unfulfilled long standing interest in the genre.

I don't think the problem was 15mm, the problem was how darn EXPENSIVE they were for 15mm and I have no doubt the real reason it sold poorly was the price more than the scale. 15mm scifi is niche, but there's a VERY dedicated following within that niche and a lot of us were thinking Halo:GC would be a great way to bridge more players in to the 15mm scene, but not at those prices!. The main box was decent value, but $35 for a single Scorpion tank at online discount price is ridiculous. I had been REALLY excited for the game to release and intended to buy a full GRUNTZ army worth of figures but even I had balked at the prices and only got the main starter set. Now I'm scrambling to pick up what I can before it's gone.

I'm not sure that 28mm skirmish is the right way to go for Halo, you can't simply recreate the videogame on tabletop. They tried to do exactly that with the godawful Haloclix game and it sold poorly because it just wasn't a god game (great figs tho). Something along the lines of where Star Wars Legion is headed might be good if done right, a couple dozen figs in small units per side and some vehicles. Maybe something like Bolt Action scale, a small platoon and a tank. Wouldn't have happened at Spartan Games prices though, would've been like $70 for a 28mm tank!

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big 15mm fan, I have most of white dragons 15mm range and a whole heap of lazerburn stuff on my desk.
And i agree, I wanted halo to work out so i could get some nice aleins and infantry, But they charged 28mm prices for 15mm stuff.
If they wanted it to work out as the next big thing in gaming then 28mm should have been the way to go all along purely to get the cross system sales. How many people have made their imperial guard army into ODSTs? Or painted a marine as master chief? Or made warthog conversions ? I think an infinity or deadzone sized game would have worked great for Halo, But when I think of Halo (Admittedly I don't play computer games) I don't think massed rank infantry combat.

This is a huge surprise, I am not sure if I should finally start buying all that Dystopian War's stuff I had my eye on or be grateful that I managed to leave it alone up until now.

Always sad to see a company fail - we have alot of enjoyment back in the day with Uncharted Seas and liked alot fo their Firestorm ships designs bought quite a few.

 nicromancer wrote:

If they wanted it to work out as the next big thing in gaming then 28mm should have been the way to go all along purely to get the cross system sales. How many people have made their imperial guard army into ODSTs? Or painted a marine as master chief? Or made warthog conversions ? I think an infinity or deadzone sized game would have worked great for Halo, But when I think of Halo (Admittedly I don't play computer games) I don't think massed rank infantry combat.

I'm not sure you CAN have a successful Halo minis game, because everybody wants something different from the setting. You can't really copy the videogames because the main storyline is just a single god-mode supersoldier rampaging through entire alien fleets. They tried to replicate the multiplayer experience (complete with respawn points and weapon upgrades on the map) with Wizkids Haloclix and that was simply a godawful game (great figs tho). Reach was my personal favorite Halo videogame for gameplay and story. Halo:GC was EXACTLY the game that I wanted to see, but the cost was too crazy even for me, and I'm a huge Halo fanboi. Halo:GC would have (and did) appealed to 15mm crowd until they saw the prices. There was no way the game was going to be successful as it was released.

28/32mm would have appealed to more players, but the cost would have been even more insane, I can only imagine trying to release a game with $70 Scorpions, $40 Warthogs etc. Perhaps the best route would have been for the company to not do a space combat game (already a niche market just as 15mm sci-fi was) and instead do the 28mm game with plastic vehicles. Especially if they could get a wider release of those plastics into actual model shops, they could easily do 1/48 vehicles marketed to both modelers and to wargamers. Their fleet battles game was cool, but just never seemed like there would ever be enough there to justify the cost of plastic production

Well that was seemingly out of nowhere. I've got way to much of their stuff as is, but now I've got to scrounge around for enough models to finish off my planetfall armies.

I wonder how much of the crash was brought about by poor Halo sales? My Local Game Store has had some starters on the shelves since release and they're still there. Combining nice models with high prices and crappy rules is a recipe for mediocre sales.

Oh well

 StygianBeach wrote:
This is a huge surprise, I am not sure if I should finally start buying all that Dystopian War's stuff I had my eye on or be grateful that I managed to leave it alone up until now.

Well chances are they will be much cheaper on ebay shortly so you could get quite a steal. the game is still playable and you guys can fix things with house rules always.

though im wondering why they closed without moving all old stock.

Even if they did 28mm scale Halo game, I've got a feeling they'd make the minis larger than normal, just like with their Dystopian range, making the models harder to use with other ranges.

I'd imagine that if it wasn't a decision made by the owner on health grounds

(the article say's he's better than he was but if there is another batch of treatment coming up he may feel he just can't do that and a failing minis company at the same time)

it was probably either a loan being called in unexpectedly or a major payment coming due (with no wiggle room) and not enough cash to cover it in the business account,

so no time to move the old stock as you legally 'know; your business is done and if you carry on trading you are breaking the law

Oh, that's a bummer - I always had half an eye on getting some of the Dystopian Wars stuff (the small scale one - not the 32 mm one).

If there is unsold stock it's pretty likely one of the big online discounters will pick it up so you'll be able to grab what you need

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If there is unsold stock it's pretty likely one of the big online discounters will pick it up so you'll be able to grab what you need

Possibly, but beware. In the past I've had resin cast problems with about one box in three for planetfall. Spartan was always really good about fixing issues, but with them out of the picture you're on your own.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If there is unsold stock it's pretty likely one of the big online discounters will pick it up so you'll be able to grab what you need

Spartan was notorious for being unable to keep up with demand even at the best of times, I'd recommend grabbing what you can now because I don't see there being much of a vast, warehouse-clearing blowout like you sometimes see. I'm trying my best to grab stuff while being stuck at work and there's already a lot of stuff no longer showing in stock at most of my favorite online shops, and Ebay is getting light too

 Duskland wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If there is unsold stock it's pretty likely one of the big online discounters will pick it up so you'll be able to grab what you need

Possibly, but beware. In the past I've had resin cast problems with about one box in three for planetfall. Spartan was always really good about fixing issues, but with them out of the picture you're on your own.

They definitely had above average mis-packs, but they were always fantastic about making it right.

Miniature Market looks to have everything Spartan on clearance although not really at firesale prices. FRP has had some Planetfall stuff at bargain bin prices for ages and it hasn't moved.

Guess I'll finally be motivated to pick up some of the planetary defense models I've been holding back on.

 Kalamadea wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If there is unsold stock it's pretty likely one of the big online discounters will pick it up so you'll be able to grab what you need

Spartan was notorious for being unable to keep up with demand even at the best of times, I'd recommend grabbing what you can now because I don't see there being much of a vast, warehouse-clearing blowout like you sometimes see. I'm trying my best to grab stuff while being stuck at work and there's already a lot of stuff no longer showing in stock at most of my favorite online shops, and Ebay is getting light too

Yeah I just grabbed the last boxes of Dystopian Legions Teutonic knights off Ebay. I cant seem find any in NA online stores unfortunatly, so It look like I might have to cast up more for myself if I want to build more conversions besides my one squad of knighworld Ogryn. Always suck to finally find the stuff you're looking for then it goes OOP. First the Bretonnia men at arms and now the Dystopian legions knights :(

Atleast I'll have a Imperial guard army that'll be unique

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'd imagine that if it wasn't a decision made by the owner on health grounds

(the article say's he's better than he was but if there is another batch of treatment coming up he may feel he just can't do that and a failing minis company at the same time)

it was probably either a loan being called in unexpectedly or a major payment coming due (with no wiggle room) and not enough cash to cover it in the business account,

so no time to move the old stock as you legally 'know; your business is done and if you carry on trading you are breaking the law

Possibly (probably) the bank. Happened to a former employer of mine, a long running VAT dispute came to a head and was ruled against the company. The company was in a position to pay, but the bank got twitchy because the money would have used up the company overdraft and insisted the company halve it's overdraft facility at the same time. This meant the company couldn't cover both (approaching £2m in total) and took it from relatively healthy, certainly in no danger of imminent closure, to administration within a week.

Banks don't generally care about the damage they do in the process of protecting themselves, and Spartan owed Natwest. £250k springs to mind, although for the life of me I'm not sure where I got that figure when looking at their paperwork earlier.

I don't think it's any coincidence that These announcements are basically 2 weeks from a fiscal calendar date.

 Vertrucio wrote:
I don't think it's any coincidence that These announcements are basically 2 weeks from a fiscal calendar date.

Or right after a huge convention where they could see if they could grab a lot of attention, or in this case see lots more competition and big names and finally say "enough is enough"

What a shame. Hate to see it happen to any company. Hope the ex-employees land on their feet.

I hope their models designers find other work in the field soon, there was real talent there. Definitely none in marketing or rules design tho.

The minis were fantastic. The rules were less so.

In the end, if they had focused on even just two of their properties, they probably would have been just fine.

Sadly, I think a lot of their games are probably not going to get snapped up. As much as I loved FSA (2.0 was by far the best system they ever created) it is still basically a generic space game with generic space ships. The space combat market is actually pretty full of stuff and as much as I love FSA's designs, I can't see anyone wanting to wade in to that.

Uncharted Seas died too young and I figure it has been out of the spotlight long enough that if anyone wanted to do Man-O-War with the serial numbers filed of then they'd just do it themselves (again, none of UC's designs were really unique, so no need to buy the property).

Their other side games are all under-developed and half-baked so not many takers on those I suppose.

The Halo license probably cost a mint and I dare say acquiring it may be why they are in such bad financial standing. Because if you get a pricey license and then don't soar with it (like FFG did with Star Wars) then it wont do much for you. Worse, Halo isn't the hot property it used to be. Unlike Star Wars which was set to be on the rise after FFG got it, Halo is sort of on the downslide these days. It was kind of why I was surprised at their announcement of having acquired it. Leaving aside the weird choices they made with the games to initially produce (another space game?) the property likely wasn't worth what they paid to get on board. I just don't think they were big enough to get the profit out of it (just look at how many Star Wars products FFG is producing to make their license worthwhile from their end, it makes Spartan look measured and focused; but FFG is big enough to support all of those games, Spartan was not).

Basically their only really unique and interesting property that I can see getting picked up is Dystopian Wars. That always appeared to be their main money-maker and it always seemed weird that it didn't receive all their support once it looked like they struck gold.

If they had stuck to just FSA and Dystopian Wars then I'm sure they'd be just fine right now. But their constant reaching (especially in the case of Halo) seems like it just killed any and all of their forward momentum.

Here's hoping their properties get picked up by good companies (as a Warzone nut, I'm especially sensitive to the latter bit of that sentiment) and their sculptors find work in the industry (because, again, their models are fething fantastic and those sculptors are some of the best in the industry for the kinds of things they make). But I'm not surprised by their failure, mostly just by the speed at which the folding happened.

I'm also upset we just got a friend in to this as well. Oh well, maybe he can use the opportunity to get some stuff on clearance.