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Um... fisty kastelans are never stuck in place. Shooty ones are.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Hey look, i was nght, no Forge World key word on Knights, and no dogmas etc.

What a shock! (Not really)

Oh well, still worth running Knights as Questor Mechanicus, if only for the +1 invuln save.

Well, it will be if FW faqs it to allow their knights to be run as Questor Mechanicus/AdMech.

The knights +1 Invulnerable takes a command point. Unless it is to try to deflect a volley of Lascannon hits, I really don't see the utility.

Ah, yes, ill be sure to remember all the other things my all Knight armies have CP to spend on.

There are things! Not many, but you could reroll an attack!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Hey look, i was nght, no Forge World key word on Knights, and no dogmas etc.

What a shock! (Not really)

Oh well, still worth running Knights as Questor Mechanicus, if only for the +1 invuln save.

Well, it will be if FW faqs it to allow their knights to be run as Questor Mechanicus/AdMech.

The knights +1 Invulnerable takes a command point. Unless it is to try to deflect a volley of Lascannon hits, I really don't see the utility.

Ah, yes, ill be sure to remember all the other things my all Knight armies have CP to spend on.

There are things! Not many, but you could reroll an attack!

Or if someone charges my Knights, i could interrupt!

I admit, i used that once to kill a mob of boys after i got multicharged by MegaNobz and Boyz.

Since this raised some confusion on FB:

Dominus repairs Knights for 1, AdMech of his <Forge World> for D3
Cawl repairs Imperium(including Knights) for 1, AdMech of any <Forge World> for D3

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Um... fisty kastelans are never stuck in place. Shooty ones are.

I feel so stupid now! I played them wrong...

Looking at Uncreator Gauntlet.
WHAT THE ACTUAL feth WERE THEY THINKING.
This is the biggest piece of garbage I've ever seen. It hits on a FIVE. FIIIIIIIIVE.
If it did 6 damage all the time, it still would be awful.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Since this raised some confusion on FB:

Dominus repairs Knights for 1, AdMech of his <Forge World> for D3
Cawl repairs Imperium(including Knights) for 1, AdMech of any <Forge World> for D3

Your list still has enginseer as elite?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also yours lists fulgurites as 17 points each, that's a 1pt increase if true

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Looking at Uncreator Gauntlet.
WHAT THE ACTUAL feth WERE THEY THINKING.
This is the biggest piece of garbage I've ever seen. It hits on a FIVE. FIIIIIIIIVE.
If it did 6 damage all the time, it still would be awful.

consider this: it is the most brilliant thing GW could have done given what their goal was with the book.... sell paper... because it took up space in the codex it helped do that.

but yeah it's a relic for a SINGLE ELITE unit who's whole fething purpose was replaced by a 1CP strategem. RIP datasmith

Review of the Forge World goodies:

Mars:
Might as well be called "you get Cawl and a cool stratagem". The Dogma only is 2 chances to get Shroudpsalm pretty much. All other canticles are pretty much meaningless for a stand and shoot army.
The Stratagem + instachange = preeeeeeetty good alpha strike.
OK Warlord trait but nothing to write home about.
Terrible artifact. Default ones are all better.... wtf why
Great

Graia :
Not bad trait. This seems the goto for Skitarii troop spam. Which... with the points drops and this dogma doesn't seem awful to be honest.
50/50 to negate powers stratagem. Not bad for denying Magnus if he rolls the 2D6 smite, which can't be denied any other way.
Warlord trait isn't awful either.
Artifact seems good. Can't argue with 1 CP
Worth trying

Metallica :
Trait sucks
Stratagem blows
Warlord trait is good... if you're losing.
OK artifact, but not even close to worth to take this garbage Forge World.
Barf

Lucius :
Not bad trait, depends on the enemy.
Best stratagem we have, unlocks so many more list building posibilities and removes our main weaknesses: being slow, durability. Deep striking Corps priests = preeeeeetty good.
Warlord trait - one of the worst in the game.
Artifact seems like one of the best. Great utility.
Great

Agripinaa:
Good trait if you're already losing.
Stratagem feels like a red hering. Just like Necrons, a competant player will kill 1 unit at a time and this stratagem will almost never be used. Especially not to full effect.
Trash Warlord trait.
The Artifact is actually situationally really good.
Meh

Stygies VIII:
God tier trait. Can't argue with that. Dragoons with -2 to hit(and now with AP1) seem preeeeeetty good. Orks can't even shoot them lol.
Stratagem seems good at first glance, but then you realise that if you don't get turn 1 - you're kinda screwed.... Kinda. It can help protect against deep strikes... Really hard to judge, but one this is for sure - this is not the way to deep strike Electro Priests. The trait is useless to them as they are 12'' or just melee range.
Warlord trait is trash.
Artifact seems bad as you don't really want to stay in melee the entire game with your Warlord.
Great

Ryza :
Trait doesn't help at all. Your dudes are already good at damage, they need mobility and survivability.
Stratagem seems great on Destroyers. That + the +1 to hit stratagem is amazing damage
Warlord trait is ok.
Artifact is nothing to write home about.
Meh


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Octovol wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Since this raised some confusion on FB:

Dominus repairs Knights for 1, AdMech of his <Forge World> for D3
Cawl repairs Imperium(including Knights) for 1, AdMech of any <Forge World> for D3

Your list still has enginseer as elite?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also yours lists fulgurites as 17 points each, that's a 1pt increase if true

They did get a 1 point increase. I mean they were overpower and winning every tournament... right. They're like conscripts... right... RIGHT?!?! WHAT? WHY?

Fixed the enginseer. No idea why it didn't save my HQ change :/

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Stygies VIII:
God tier trait. Can't argue with that. Dragoons with -2 to hit(and now with AP1) seem preeeeeetty good. Orks can't even shoot them lol.
Stratagem seems good at first glance, but then you realise that if you don't get turn 1 - you're kinda screwed.... Kinda. It can help protect against deep strikes... Really hard to judge, but one this is for sure - this is not the way to deep strike Electro Priests. The trait is useless to them as they are 12'' or just melee range.
Warlord trait is trash.
Artifact seems bad as you don't really want to stay in melee the entire game with your Warlord.
Great

Consider this with the strategem. you don't HAVE to use it to place your unit 9.01" away. you CAN use this to place things outside your deployment zone. I.e. anywhere not within 9" of your enemy. that means you can split your force and pincer them in. also more easily bubble wrap extending the range at which your bubble wrap extends on turn 1. Use it to instantly set up units on objectives in no mans land. ect.

Well I wrote that in my post "It can help protect against deep strikes". Basically Scout for 1 CP. Which isn't that great...
If you could switch between the forgeworlds depending on the army it'd be good, but Lucius is just good against any army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So the only good artifacts seem to be:
Autocaduceus - aka the healing one
The Solar Flare - the Lucius Teleport one
The Eye of Xi-Lexum - vs Chaos Vehicles (so not really all that good :p)

And the only good Warlord Traits:
1 - get more CP
4 - repair +1
6 - re-roll to hit in combat (situational)
Mars - better deployment? Not too big on this one
Metallica - if you're already losing

I think you can make a pretty solid stygis army which is nice from the cawl only forces.

Was someone saying that Reece from Frontline was saying that there is more to come for AdMech power complaints i.e. FAQ buffs?

 ph34r wrote:
Was someone saying that Reece from Frontline was saying that there is more to come for AdMech power complaints i.e. FAQ buffs?

Please elaborate ASAP

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Dragoons got AP1 so that's a thing

Is this AP-1 on the lance or on the sniper rifle?

SilverAlien wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Dragoons got AP1 so that's a thing

Is this AP-1 on the lance or on the sniper rifle?

Lance

That's another nice change then. Seems the overall builds for admech stayed the same, just with an easier time using multiple detachments and a general increase in effectiveness/points efficiency. Oh, and Cawl is now optional/not actually that good.

I don't know... Cawl is still preeeeetty good
Also, I think the Deepstrike stratagem changed the builds completelly as electropriests might become our best unit.

The deepstrike strategem might be red herring since you have to deep strike turn 1. That is to soon to remove screening units.

DarthDiggler wrote:
The deepstrike strategem might be red herring since you have to deep strike turn 1. That is to soon to remove screening units.

Nope, read the strategem. You're thinking of the infiltrate before turn 1.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I don't know... Cawl is still preeeeetty good
Also, I think the Deepstrike stratagem changed the builds completelly as electropriests might become our best unit.

I think the ability to recycle canticles and boost kastellan's accuracy via stratagem does give other options at least. Though the kastellans do depend on destroyers which isn't ideal.

As for priests, I'm a little confused. Dakkastelans still outperform them for cost by a fairly wide margin against most infantry unless the priests can get the charge, which is always an issue coming out of deepstrike. Considering you can now get protector protocols turn one for the same(?) cp cost as deepstriking the priests, plus can fit more firepower in a single kastelan unit so savings in cp right there, I'm not sure what makes them so exceptional.

 ph34r wrote:
Was someone saying that Reece from Frontline was saying that there is more to come for AdMech power complaints i.e. FAQ buffs?

If so this is embarrassing. I mean, charging money for a new book yet to be released that is literally filled with incorrect information, yea that's dumb. I am starting to think GW should have stuck entirely within the index, used it as a living document and simply released datacards for stratagems, tactics, warlord traits and artifacts. Kind of awful buying a hard back and then waiting on a FAQ to "fix" it. I'd give them a pass if this sort of thing were rare but I have a feeling this entire first run at 8th edition books is going to need a biblical sized FAQ.

Priests are waaay better than Kastelans vs hordes. Show me your math


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Was someone saying that Reece from Frontline was saying that there is more to come for AdMech power complaints i.e. FAQ buffs?

If so this is embarrassing. I mean, charging money for a new book yet to be released that is literally filled with incorrect information, yea that's dumb. I am starting to think GW should have stuck entirely within the index, used it as a living document and simply released datacards for stratagems, tactics, warlord traits and artifacts. Kind of awful buying a hard back and then waiting on a FAQ to "fix" it. I'd give them a pass if this sort of thing were rare but I have a feeling this entire first run at 8th edition books is going to need a biblical sized FAQ.

It is because the Codex has been finished a long time ago. And since now they've noticed that the changes in the Codex won't be enough due to really bad AdMech tournament results. So they'll fix that in a web FAQ that they can change any day they want

Yea I know why, doesn't make it any less embarrassing. Should have sold it for less money as a digital document only, then made print runs later after everything is hammered out. Instead you will have every printed book from now until 9th as incorrect off the shelf.

Not sure that's true. The offensive output is in the favor of the priests without charging against t4 3+ saves. Defensive lies with the big bots but nit by as large a margin as you'd think once you add in multi weapon and the fnp.

Electro are really good. At least they are something to give us and choice between big bots and something else.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Priests are waaay better than Kastelans vs hordes. Show me your math

Well, Priests require you to Deep Strike to be effective. That can be absolutely mitigated by good players. Stringing out cheap, fodder units will make you waste your shots on them and then you get blasted off the table.

Robots can sit back comfortably, being repaired, and shooting at 36" with S6 (vs S5) AP -2 (vs AP 0) cover ignoring guns. They are T7, too, meaning it is much harder to hurt them vs T3 Priests, even if you have a ton of them.

Of course, the good part here is you can do both. Toss down a decent round of firepower with the Robots on T1, then drop in the Corpuscarii T2 to capitalize.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Priests are waaay better than Kastelans vs hordes. Show me your math

Ah yeah, I realized what my issue was. I got confused and thought the corpus priests were the ones who went up to 17 ppm, not the staff dudes. At 17 ppm I was getting the same rough kills vs most enemies as protector kastalens with phosphor and flamer deepstriking. At 14 ppm priests win by a solid margin.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Priests are waaay better than Kastelans vs hordes. Show me your math

Well, Priests require you to Deep Strike to be effective. That can be absolutely mitigated by good players. Stringing out cheap, fodder units will make you waste your shots on them and then you get blasted off the table.

Robots can sit back comfortably, being repaired, and shooting at 36" with S6 (vs S5) AP -2 (vs AP 0) cover ignoring guns. They are T7, too, meaning it is much harder to hurt them vs T3 Priests, even if you have a ton of them.

Of course, the good part here is you can do both. Toss down a decent round of firepower with the Robots on T1, then drop in the Corpuscarii T2 to capitalize.

How do you mitigate them? They are the best at killing the screen. That's the entire point of bringing them. And they're ranged so you can quite easily park them in between 2 units: shoot one charge the other


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Deep Strike priests can make very good use of the re-roll 1 canticle

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Priests are waaay better than Kastelans vs hordes. Show me your math

Well, Priests require you to Deep Strike to be effective. That can be absolutely mitigated by good players. Stringing out cheap, fodder units will make you waste your shots on them and then you get blasted off the table.

Robots can sit back comfortably, being repaired, and shooting at 36" with S6 (vs S5) AP -2 (vs AP 0) cover ignoring guns. They are T7, too, meaning it is much harder to hurt them vs T3 Priests, even if you have a ton of them.

Of course, the good part here is you can do both. Toss down a decent round of firepower with the Robots on T1, then drop in the Corpuscarii T2 to capitalize.

How do you mitigate them? They are the best at killing the screen. That's the entire point of bringing them. And they're ranged so you can quite easily park them in between 2 units: shoot one charge the other


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Deep Strike priests can make very good use of the re-roll 1 canticle

Mitigate them by forcing them to deploy too far out to make a difference. It is standard stuff. And so we blow our wad knocking out a screen... who cares? We aren't assaulting anyone. We don't care that much about their screen. We want to knock out key threats. Kastellans do this well. As do Onagers. Not saying Corpuscarii can't serve a purpose Deep Striking, but it is a gimmick vs the reliable goodness of the Robots (especially with Wrath now).