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 Niiai wrote:
But I am looking into adding more to my tyranids. I am having a hard time thinking what that should be. What do they have that nids don't have?

Not a whole lot,

Abberants
Acolytes

Both with good AP and a good method (primus + stratagem) to get into CC.

GSC has some good pysker abilities, mass hypnosis could really help Tyranids melee wise.

GSC can take some good ranged anti tank with better AP than Tyranid weapons, although they don't really have a good platform for lascannons or preventing mining lasers from moving (BS 5+).

GSC allows you to take guard with tyranids, but that generally limits you on Tyranids you can take.

I want to try out taking 2 primus and a 10-15 of purestrain genestealers and 4-6 abberants with a Kraken tyranid army. Genestealers from GSC and Tyranids could get nasty alpha strike turn 1, then abberants can come in turn 2 close to vehicles. Hard to find a detachment to fill this with though....



I don't think I'd take GSC with a shooty tyranid army. Maybe a Battalion detachment with Neophytes? but meh... A Acolyte Iconward, a Magus and 3 Neophyte units would give you 5 Deny the witch attempts (if they're all together), mass hypnosis or mind control, 30 5+/6++ humans and options for heavy weapons / anti tank weapons.

That actually may not be bad for a ranged tyranid army:

Battalion (~360 points)
HQ
Acolyte Iconward
Magus
Troops
3x Neophyte Hybrids with lascannon HWT or 2 mining lasers. (grenade launchers too if you want)

This might be asking a lot. But the hammerants with a primus using the stratgem, as well as a potensial re-roll in the psykick phase and charge phase. What are the chances that they both make it into charging a unit? Has anybody done the math?

 easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
But I am looking into adding more to my tyranids. I am having a hard time thinking what that should be. What do they have that nids don't have?

Not a whole lot,

Abberants
Acolytes

Both with good AP and a good method (primus + stratagem) to get into CC.

GSC has some good pysker abilities, mass hypnosis could really help Tyranids melee wise.

GSC can take some good ranged anti tank with better AP than Tyranid weapons, although they don't really have a good platform for lascannons or preventing mining lasers from moving (BS 5+).

GSC allows you to take guard with tyranids, but that generally limits you on Tyranids you can take.

I want to try out taking 2 primus and a 10-15 of purestrain genestealers and 4-6 abberants with a Kraken tyranid army. Genestealers from GSC and Tyranids could get nasty alpha strike turn 1, then abberants can come in turn 2 close to vehicles. Hard to find a detachment to fill this with though....



I don't think I'd take GSC with a shooty tyranid army. Maybe a Battalion detachment with Neophytes? but meh... A Acolyte Iconward, a Magus and 3 Neophyte units would give you 5 Deny the witch attempts (if they're all together), mass hypnosis or mind control, 30 5+/6++ humans and options for heavy weapons / anti tank weapons.

That actually may not be bad for a ranged tyranid army:

Battalion (~360 points)
HQ
Acolyte Iconward
Magus
Troops
3x Neophyte Hybrids with lascannon HWT or 2 mining lasers. (grenade launchers too if you want)

Use a Supreme Command Detachment to bring 3 Tank Commanders w/ Lascannon. That comes to 627pts which give you 1373pt to use on GSC and Tyranids Detachments.

 Odrankt wrote:

 easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
But I am looking into adding more to my tyranids. I am having a hard time thinking what that should be. What do they have that nids don't have?

Not a whole lot,

Abberants
Acolytes

Both with good AP and a good method (primus + stratagem) to get into CC.

GSC has some good pysker abilities, mass hypnosis could really help Tyranids melee wise.

GSC can take some good ranged anti tank with better AP than Tyranid weapons, although they don't really have a good platform for lascannons or preventing mining lasers from moving (BS 5+).

GSC allows you to take guard with tyranids, but that generally limits you on Tyranids you can take.

I want to try out taking 2 primus and a 10-15 of purestrain genestealers and 4-6 abberants with a Kraken tyranid army. Genestealers from GSC and Tyranids could get nasty alpha strike turn 1, then abberants can come in turn 2 close to vehicles. Hard to find a detachment to fill this with though....



I don't think I'd take GSC with a shooty tyranid army. Maybe a Battalion detachment with Neophytes? but meh... A Acolyte Iconward, a Magus and 3 Neophyte units would give you 5 Deny the witch attempts (if they're all together), mass hypnosis or mind control, 30 5+/6++ humans and options for heavy weapons / anti tank weapons.

That actually may not be bad for a ranged tyranid army:

Battalion (~360 points)
HQ
Acolyte Iconward
Magus
Troops
3x Neophyte Hybrids with lascannon HWT or 2 mining lasers. (grenade launchers too if you want)

Use a Supreme Command Detachment to bring 3 Tank Commanders w/ Lascannon. That comes to 627pts which give you 1373pt to use on GSC and Tyranids Detachments.

I take 3 Primaris Psykers and either a Shadowsword or Banehammer for less points.

 Niiai wrote:
This might be asking a lot. But the hammerants with a primus using the stratgem, as well as a potensial re-roll in the psykick phase and charge phase. What are the chances that they both make it into charging a unit? Has anybody done the math?

Odds of a six with the primus re-roll (assuming that you are fishing for just a six and don't settle for a 5 on the first roll) = 67% chance.
Odds of a six or five with the primus re-roll = 92% chance.

A six is a practically guaranteed charge assuming you want to charge a unit you were over 9" away from (35/36 chance)
A five is going to get you an average of around an 80% chance of getting in.

TLDR: The odds are very, very, very good.

I take 3 Primaris Psykers and either a Shadowsword or Banehammer for less points.

while that is true I don't think it matches the fire power for 3 Tank Commanders w/ battle cannons. Every varient of Baneblade are B4 and while TC are B3 and can all give them self's re-rolling 1s. The guns on a "varient " are usually worth it but you can only select 1 target with the main gun while 3 TC can shoots 2d6 at 3 different targets.

Also, he was looking for a way to enhance his Tyranids army which 3 TC would do perfectly as it would give him a strong gunline. How would the 3 Primaris Pyskers help him out unless he was running mainly AM with a good few Infantry type units?

Hey peeps of the underhive, I’ve been struggling lately to find an army I’m happy with but checking out Genestealer Cults, and playing a couple of 750pt games, got me curious.

I’m looking for an army that is quick and deadly, like Tyranids, but has a human eliment for me to get behind, so these dudes seemed like a good fit. I also like the models.

Are they fun to play at higher points limits and do they perform well? Being able to spawn the Genestealers and Patriarch in my enemy’s face was fun, and genestealers seem to wreck face. But I was struggling on the Guard side of things, neophytes seemingly pointless but maybe I was using them wrong.

Anyway:

1) even though they’re an index force, are they good?
2) what units perform well?
3) is it worth using their own units or allying Guard?

Thanks in advance

You pay a premiul on all units to be able to deepstrike. So allaing with guards is a sound idea.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey peeps of the underhive, I’ve been struggling lately to find an army I’m happy with but checking out Genestealer Cults, and playing a couple of 750pt games, got me curious.

I’m looking for an army that is quick and deadly, like Tyranids, but has a human eliment for me to get behind, so these dudes seemed like a good fit. I also like the models.

Are they fun to play at higher points limits and do they perform well? Being able to spawn the Genestealers and Patriarch in my enemy’s face was fun, and genestealers seem to wreck face. But I was struggling on the Guard side of things, neophytes seemingly pointless but maybe I was using them wrong.

Anyway:

1) even though they’re an index force, are they good?
2) what units perform well?
3) is it worth using their own units or allying Guard?

Thanks in advance

I've found that Neophytes have a few things to recommend them over guard. They do pay 1 point more per model, which isn't enormous but it isn't nothing, but they get 3 big things. First, Cult Ambush, which is not only deep strike but also a solid chance to get results like doubling their firepower the turn they come in or allowing them to tie something up in melee with a six. Second, access to a good transport, which Guard does not have. The Goliath Truck is solidly armed with its pair of autocannons and offers true open topped so you can fire special and heavy weapons out of it. Speaking of those, GSC get 2 heavy and 2 special weapons, double what guard squads get in a 10 man squad.

The two loadouts I have found most effective for my GSC are: 2x Grenade Launchers 2x Mining Lasers 6x Autoguns/lasguns in a Goliath Truck, I do run one squad with the lasers swapped out for Seismic Cannons, post CA both weapon options are solidly useful. The second is Chainsword leader, 2x Grenade Launchers, 7x Shotguns Cult Ambushing. Shotguns over autoguns there because range won't be an issue and if I happen to roll a 6 they get to be S4.

I will say there are some head scratchers in the neophytes weapon pool (why would I ever want a stubber over a seismic cannon? Why would I ever want a webber over a Grenade Launcher? I've tried flamers as well but GLs are pretty much always more efficient, since ambushing neo squads only have a 1/3 chance of getting to use the flamers the turn they come in, and to do so they have to give up the double shot on a 5 so really the flamer is only twice as effective on a roll of 6)

Strictly speaking it may be very slightly more efficient to run guard squads naked in a separate detachment than to fill more GSC troop slots with neophytes but IMO synergy-wise that is a mistake. GSC don't need what Guard provide, which is an effective screen to back up a hard-hitting gunline. We're not admech, with onagers and dakkastelans, we are a high pressure melee alpha strike army, what does a guard screen do to help that? neophytes and a couple russes provide me with a solid armored core to the army that helps clear out infantry/light vehicle chaff from long range and scores me points while my melee elements do the killing.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey peeps of the underhive, I’ve been struggling lately to find an army I’m happy with but checking out Genestealer Cults, and playing a couple of 750pt games, got me curious.

I’m looking for an army that is quick and deadly, like Tyranids, but has a human eliment for me to get behind, so these dudes seemed like a good fit. I also like the models.

Are they fun to play at higher points limits and do they perform well? Being able to spawn the Genestealers and Patriarch in my enemy’s face was fun, and genestealers seem to wreck face. But I was struggling on the Guard side of things, neophytes seemingly pointless but maybe I was using them wrong.

Anyway:

1) even though they’re an index force, are they good?
2) what units perform well?
3) is it worth using their own units or allying Guard?

Thanks in advance

GSC are... not bad, but they aren't particularly good. What they do have is access to two of the best allies in the game, tyranids and guard.
They do have some good units though. Going through them all:

HQ:
Magus - amazing psychic powers, relatively cheap. Take at least one in every list
Primus - amazing when combined with the meticulous uprising stratagem, gives you a 90% chance of getting your melee unit in a <9in charge range.
Patriarch - Good but I find it a bit overcosted. Ignoring morale is nice, it blenderises things and buffs purestrains.
Iconwards - Pretty awful tbh. The FnP is done by a model basis, not by unit so sucks. The relic it can carry is nice though.
Familiars - Probably a waste of points. 12pts for +1 wound and an extra smite cast is ok but there are better things to take.

Troops:
Neophytes - guardsmen with a different name. That being said, they get 2x the special weapons (take grenade launchers), have built in deepstrike, they all have pistols, can all take shotguns and they have the option to take mining weapons (not really recommended though, just take the heavy weapons). On the downside, they cost 1 more point each and cannot take orders. Pretty solid, probably better than guard squads.
Acolytes - used to be pretty bad, now decent. Take a large squad armed with rock saws and use a primus to guide them in to where they need to be. They'll mulch whatever they touch (if they survive). Small squads are probably best used with demolition charges.

Elites:
Aberrants - BRING THE HAMMER DOWN! Need to kill a superheavy? Throw 8 power hammer aberrants with a primus nearby and cast might from beyond on them. They will kill that knight or baneblade on average
Purestrains - fast and deadly, will massacre infantry and will put damage on anything tougher thanks to rending claws. Personally I like putting 10-12 of them in a chimera.
Metamorphs - do not want

Fast Attack:
Scout sentinel - the better choice, use them to counter deepstrike shenanigans and to up the number of drops you put on the table. I fit mine with autocannons and use them as stationary turrets.
Armoured sentinel - tougher scouts but without the anti-deepstrike utility. I'd pass on these.

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ - The big guns. Unless you're going for a brigade though, you may as well take a guard detachment and run tank commanders.
Goliath Rockgrinder - Fun, but underwhelming IMO. I'd rather take the trucks and stuff neophytes in them. 6 transport capacity is a bit awkward too.

Dedicated Transports:
Chimera - Box #1. Carries 12 so you can take a magus, patriarch or iconward along for the trip. I like double flamers on mine; pop smoke t1 and advance as far as possible, then t2 drop off your genestealer/acolyte payload, flame the enemy and charge to soak up overwatch.
Goliath Truck - Box #2, but this one doesn't have a lid so you can shoot out of it. Put neophytes in it.

Lord of War:
Just kidding, we don't have any

Hey guys, thanks heaps for the replies. So what I'm getting from this is: Genestealer are great; neophytes in trucks are great and always take grenade launchers; Magus and Primus are best leaders, but Patriarch is also somewhat good if I want to use it; lemon russes for long range fire support; Neophytes armed with shotguns and Acolytes are great for ambushing; Scout sentinels with autocannons for screening and adding some extra autocannons.

What's the main anti-tank unit for this lot? Lemon Russes and those hammer dudes? Though I can't find where to get those hammer dudes

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey guys, thanks heaps for the replies. So what I'm getting from this is: Genestealer are great; neophytes in trucks are great and always take grenade launchers; Magus and Primus are best leaders, but Patriarch is also somewhat good if I want to use it; lemon russes for long range fire support; Neophytes armed with shotguns and Acolytes are great for ambushing; Scout sentinels with autocannons for screening and adding some extra autocannons.

What's the main anti-tank unit for this lot? Lemon Russes and those hammer dudes? Though I can't find where to get those hammer dudes

The hammer dudes just came in the Deathwatch: Overkill box (which is an excellent value if you can find it for the models contained within) but if you're just looking for a targeted purchase for hammer Aberrants, the Goliath box from Necromunda can be super easily kitbashed with Acolyte heads and bits to make Aberrants. It's basically 10 big muscly dudes with heavy hammers/axes on the right base sizes for 40$. Well worth getting a box so you can have 8 hammerberrants with a primus.

Not sure what the above poster is on about regarding taking a HWT instead of 2 mining weapons though, I have to disagree - I'll always take 2 Mining Lasers over 1 lascannon shot and none of the HWT options come close to holding a candle to the seismic cannon in terms of anti-elite/anti-infantry output.

I haven't yet decided if I prefer 2 lasers or 2 seismics for my truck squads, but I would always choose one of those two options to go for. the lasers are good for staying safe at 24" and knocking the occasional hull point off something heavy, but now that my two battlecannon/lascannon cult russes and hammerberrants actually pull their weight (and good lord have they been doing so in spectacular fashion post-CA) I have been getting better performance out of the seismics in my games, plus they're a good deal cheaper.

A double-seismic, double-GL unit tosses out an average of 21 S3 shots per turn from 24" away, 8 of which rend on 6s. for a unit that costs what, 74 points, has obsec and gets to shoot that out comfy cozy from the safety of their transport, that's pretty darn solid. Better damage output than Tau Fire Warriors, Space Marines, or skitarii at that range. Only unit that beats it out to my knowledge for its points is lasgun guardsmen receiving the First Rank Fire order which do 1/3 more damage, but which don't have a nice mobile bunker to fire out of.

Acolytes are also amazing, I hate Rock Drills sooooooooo much.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Acolytes are also amazing, I hate Rock Drills sooooooooo much.

Rock drills may be the most fun weapon in 40k to use (or at least, they're up there) but in terms of effectiveness for points post-CA I don't think anything beats the rock saw. It's almost half as expensive for nearly the same average damage output. Given that with a primus and an icon (which you should take if you're going for a 10-man, 4-saw unit) you're going to be hitting on 2s rerolling 1s, wounding most things on 3s and then doing a flat 2 damage rather than D3....they are one of the best anti-armor melee units out there.

Only overshadowed in pure anti-tank punching power by...a unit in the same codex, hammerberrants.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
crunching the math, for general use it seems like 10x saw acolytes with banner are somewhat more efficient than 8x hammerberrants (assuming both are going in with a primus and meticulous uprising) because the saw boys do just about perfectly enough damage on average to fell a "rhino equivalent vehicle" (i.e. T7, 3+, 10-12 wounds) while the aberrants cost about 1/3 again as much but deal almost double that damage.

The hammers' S10 is cancelled out by the saws' AP-4 for the most part, so really the aberrants are only more efficient if you end up having more than one vehicle target you want to engage, or a really big one like a superheavy. Durability wise the units are very close, aberrants I'd call slightly less durable than acolytes because the acolytes require 6 wounds before you start reducing their anti tank power, but you can readily assume that both will essentially be suicide troops.

I think most times I'd prefer 10x acolytes with saws.

Patriarch - Good but I find it a bit overcosted. Ignoring morale is nice, it blenderises things and buffs purestrains.

I actually think the Patriarch is the right price. It can cast and deny 1 pysker power and allows Purestrains to add +1. If you were to buff Purestrains with a Magus for Might from Beyond and using a Primus to get +1 to hit then just get the Patriarch as a Magus and Primus cost 149 together while the Patriarch is 150 and a beast in melee. I almost always use one for my Purestrains unless I don't want to buff their stats.

It's interesting to see the variety of answers for the loadouts of neophyte teams. For the past few weeks that I've been reading this topic, I've seen recommendations for 2x grenade launchers + mortar HWT, stationary Lascannon objective holders, and in/out of a goliath truck.

I guess that really speaks to just how flexible the unit is.

Same thing with sentinels, the debate between armored/scout sentinels has been fun to watch.

I take it that this means GSC can really be built to how YOU prefer to play? Aka take a unit outfitted however you want, and synergize with other pieces as you please.

ajax_xaja wrote:
It's interesting to see the variety of answers for the loadouts of neophyte teams. For the past few weeks that I've been reading this topic, I've seen recommendations for 2x grenade launchers + mortar HWT, stationary Lascannon objective holders, and in/out of a goliath truck.

I guess that really speaks to just how flexible the unit is.

Same thing with sentinels, the debate between armored/scout sentinels has been fun to watch.

I take it that this means GSC can really be built to how YOU prefer to play? Aka take a unit outfitted however you want, and synergize with other pieces as you please.

Yes, but like with all the Index factions....to an extent.

The Neophytes for instance have a few obvious "why would you ever take one of these" choices. All the stuff that uses the well-tested imperial weapons profiles? Great. Heavy Stubbers/Web weapons/Sergeant weapon upgrades? Bleah no. If we have bespoke pricing for all our gear, why the flippity flip do neophytes (WS4+ A1 S3 guys with no weapons) pay the same price as Acolytes (WS3+ A2 S4 guys with a rending claw AND a bonus attack knife) for a Cult Icon? The icon for the neos should be like...5 points. Same deal with the Heavy Stubber, as well as some of the HWT options like autocannon and heavy bolter.

My thoughts on them as for instance Lascannon Objective Holders is...why not bring guard at that point. You're just paying 10 points to call them neophytes. For me, unless you're making use of their advantages, they're 100% guard-1.

Armored vs Scout Sentinels are a tossup because neither is particularly great and the difference is pretty minuscule.

Aberrants with Picks really need never apply, same with Metamorphs as before they're just utterly outclassed by Acolytes and Genestealers. Leman Russ is pretty much battlecannon or bust since we don't have the other good variants from the AM codex (and I still can't figure out why...)

I would say that GSC are a contender for best index book out there post-CA. But that doesn't say much.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Lemon Russes

They're not called that in this edition...

Other than Neophytes in Goliath, ambushing shotgunners, or blob with magnus to give lots of deny the witch, guardsmen are generally just better and cheaper. Plasma guns are just so much better than grenade launchers and 2 points more. You can get 3 guard squads and a company commander HQ for same cost as 3 neophytes.

Does anyone really ever take mobile mining lasers? 5+ to hit sucks...






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Odrankt wrote:
Every varient of Baneblade are B4 and while TC are B3 and can all give them self's re-rolling 1s.

Tank Commanders cannot give themselves orders, only Pask can issue orders to tank commanders. So no rerolling 1s.

 easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Lemon Russes

They're not called that in this edition...

Other than Neophytes in Goliath, ambushing shotgunners, or blob with magnus to give lots of deny the witch, guardsmen are generally just better and cheaper. Plasma guns are just so much better than grenade launchers and 2 points more. You can get 3 guard squads and a company commander HQ for same cost as 3 neophytes.

Does anyone really ever take mobile mining lasers? 5+ to hit sucks...






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Odrankt wrote:
Every varient of Baneblade are B4 and while TC are B3 and can all give them self's re-rolling 1s.

Tank Commanders cannot give themselves orders, only Pask can issue orders to tank commanders. So no rerolling 1s.

Pask can only Issue orders to Cadian Leman Russ's and he is allowed to give a Leman Russ 2 Tank Commands.

Any Normal TC can give any <Regiment> Leman Russ a Tank Command. Also, taken from the AM codex; "This model can issue one order each turn to a friendly <REGIMENT> LEMAN RUSS at the start of your Shooting phase. To issue a Tank Order, pick a target LEMAN RUSS within 6" of this model and choose which order you wish to issue from the Tank Orders table. Each LEMAN RUSS can only be given a single order each turn."

So... That means that because a Tank Commander has the "Leman Russ" keyword it is allowed to Command itself or any LR within 6".

Unless you have other evidence to say this is illegal?

Purely for curiosity's sake, I'm taking another glance at a unit I had previously dismissed as "like Purestrains, but 100% worse" - metamorphs.

These guys, equipped entirely with whips and talons, would seem to me to be a fairly effective anti-horde tool when applied with a Meticulous Uprising Primus. Throw in a few hand flamers on ~half the squad and you'd have what would seem to be a more reliable chaff-clearer than a unit of purestrains. And if you can surround a model (something I've found myself getting better and better at as 8th goes on) you get to do more damage against the melee counterattacks that kill your models.

Is anyone running whip metamorphs? Or are the tradeoffs from metamorph to genestealer (faster movement, higher toughness, 5++ as opposed to 5+) just too big to stomach?

I used them with +2 strenght and the iconward so with strenght 7 (can even go to 8 with the spell) you can hit anything even some light vehicules and wound t3 on 2+ it give me a versatile unit but i only take 5.

taetrius67 wrote:
I used them with +2 strenght and the iconward so with strenght 7 (can even go to 8 with the spell) you can hit anything even some light vehicules and wound t3 on 2+ it give me a versatile unit but i only take 5.

Eh... seems like a lot of effort to go to just to get something to S7, especially when its 0 ap 1 damage so it basically has zero chance of ever hurting a vehicle.

For reference, that squad of buffed Claw metamorphs does 1/3 less damage vs a standard T7 3+ vehicle than an unbuffed metamorph with just a rending claw. Wounds on a 4+, no AP, vs wounds on a 5+, -1 AP and half the wounds at -4 AP.

The only time that strategy actually nets you good results is vs T5 and T6, which are pretty rare toughness values. and you pay a bundle for the claws.

Hence why I went with whip/claw. The claw is free, and mathematically it seems to be superior to both of the other weapons, which you pay a CRAZY amount for (talon and claw) against almost all targets. So you get the whip, which is cheaper and gives you an ability that lets you swing an extra time with your claw when you die.

don't get me wrong: I think the difference between purestrains and whipmorphs is so minuscule that it's almost a preference choice. You get a tiny bit more offense with the whipmorphs vs a bit more flexibility and durability with the purestrains. On average the purestrains probably still edge them out, but both are going to show up, absolutely obliterate something with their rending claws, and then probably die to return anti infantry fire the next turn. The only difference is, if you wind up against an opponent who is melee focused, they can charge and wipe your genestealers fairly easily with a lot of common alpha strike units, while if they send some zerkers or death company against the whipmorphs, they are going to get demolished by the whip special rule.

Metamorphs definitly need some love and someting to make them different from a slightly slower genestealer with no inv.

easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:
Plasma guns are just so much better than grenade launchers and 2 points more.

To be fair, the Grenade Launcher isn't a bad weapon per say. It just suffers tremendously from the restriction of a single special weapon per guardsmen squad, as with only one it isn't really possible to get enough shots from it to get work done. With Neophytes, the extra special allowance makes Grenade Launchers more useful and Seismic Cannons provide a complimentary rate-of-fire weapon with very similar weapon profiles for more firepower saturation.

Also worth keeping the unit roles in mind. Plasma is a fantastic weapon for hunting large targets and heavy infantry, but it isn't that efficient against hoard infantry which for the most part is what Neophytes are tasked with thinning out so the GSC melee units can go to work.

easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:
Does anyone really ever take mobile mining lasers? 5+ to hit sucks...

From my experience autogun squads tend to stay put once they are in a good firing position (be it from ambushing into cover or riding in a Goliath) so the move and fire penalty hasn't been too big a drawback.

the_scotsman wrote:
Hence why I went with whip/claw. The claw is free, and mathematically it seems to be superior to both of the other weapons, which you pay a CRAZY amount for (talon and claw) against almost all targets. So you get the whip, which is cheaper and gives you an ability that lets you swing an extra time with your claw when you die.

They are. I remember calculating it out awhile ago and the Talon and Claw are both fairly inefficient against almost every target (mostly due to lack of AP - Claw was worse due to higher cost) while the Whip + Rending Claw is about on par with Purestrains provided they don't have their bonus attack from larger squad size in effect. The main area I see Metamorphs being a superior option compared to Genestealers is in smaller mechanized units (such as Rockgrinder-mounted cohorts), since they actually get more attacks than their counterparts in small squads due to their squad leader and as you mentioned they always get their swings in if they make it to combat.

If building a brigade they are probably the cheapest elite option given that they are fine operating at minimum squad sizes while 'stealers want larger units and Aberrants are more expensive than either (though to be fair, they fill a different role entirely). Biggest problem is you will need to loot some Venomthrope arms to build mass whips, as the official Metamorph Whip arm is a left-handed pair and there are only two torsos that fit that particular configuration per box.

Timeshadow wrote:Metamorphs definitly need some love and someting to make them different from a slightly slower genestealer with no inv.

I'm expecting to see their biomorphs brought in line with the Tyranid weapons they are based on (Talon = Scything Talon, Claw = Crushing Claw, Whip = Toxic Lash/Lash Whip) and perhaps a few extras added to account for the "head" biomorphs as was the case with the Hive Fleet Genestealers (Acid Maw and Flesh Hooks, maybe a variantion of enhanced senses and adrenal glands). Might also see a cost decrease for both 1st/2nd generation hybrids too, given that pre FAQ/Chappter Approved they were significantly cheaper than Purestrains.

The neothype hybrids come in 2 different box sets.

One is IG with conversion bits.

The other one are a kit designed for GSC.

What weapons are in each pack? I am having trouble thinking I can put together what ever I want.

 Niiai wrote:
The neothype hybrids come in 2 different box sets.
What weapons are in each pack? I am having trouble thinking I can put together what ever I want.

The Imperial guard Conversion ( Neophyte Hybrid Squad ) has a grenade launcher, flamer, 1 laspistol / 1 chainsword and 10 lasguns. Big thing it comes with is a single Heavy weapons team.

The Neophyte hybrids has far more weapon options, 10 autoguns, 10 shotguns, 1 seismic cannon, 1 heavy stubber, 1 mining laser, 1 grenade launcher, 1 webber, 1 flamer, 1 webber pistol, 1 bolt pistol, 1 autopistol, and 3 melee weapons.

 Niiai wrote:
The neothype hybrids come in 2 different box sets.

One is IG with conversion bits.

The other one are a kit designed for GSC.

What weapons are in each pack? I am having trouble thinking I can put together what ever I want.

Guard one is literally just the cadian infantry kit with some extra heads and cult symbols - ten guys with lasguns with parts for one heavy weapon team (one of each heavy weapon but only one base). Each set comes with 2 flamers, 2 grenade launchers and 2 laspistol/chainswords. You can build 10 neophytes AND a heavy weapon team

The cult one comes with enough parts to build 10 regular neophytes OR 8 neophytes and 2 heavy gun ones, not both (I think. not 100% certain). But it does come with enough shotguns for the entire squad, which is the only place of getting them in bulk as far as I know. Also comes with a cult icon, power maul, power pick auto pistol, bolt pistol, web pistol, webber, grenade launcher, flamer and one of each heavy mining weapon.

I've got a wargear question related to cult icons - is anything stopping me from giving me one to an acolyte with a heavy rock saw? It'd require conversion but it'd give me one extra body before my squad loses combat effectiveness

So the neophyte is lacking 1 grenade launcher and 1 mining laser if that is how I wanne do it? Both mining laser and grenade launcher has 24" range.

It is a pitty because I really like the neophyte kit, but I think I want the heavy weapon from th heavy weapon team. Lascannon seems king in 8th edition. For 70 points it seems like good chaff with some teeth. Chaff when you meet alpha strike. Lascannon for when you meet a gunline.

Or a cheap mortal seems quite good.

You could just get a IG HWT kit that comes with 3 of them, you just really need the 6 heads for the guardsmen, which you will likely have extras from the neophyte hybrid kits.

Getting the deathwatch overkill box comes with a bunch of neophyte hybrids, some of the molds are the same so instead of putting autoguns on them I put shotguns on them from the hybrid kit.

 easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
The neothype hybrids come in 2 different box sets.
What weapons are in each pack? I am having trouble thinking I can put together what ever I want.

The Imperial guard Conversion ( Neophyte Hybrid Squad ) has a grenade launcher, flamer, 1 laspistol / 1 chainsword and 10 lasguns. Big thing it comes with is a single Heavy weapons team.

The Neophyte hybrids has far more weapon options, 10 autoguns, 10 shotguns, 1 seismic cannon, 1 heavy stubber, 1 mining laser, 1 grenade launcher, 1 webber, 1 flamer, 1 webber pistol, 1 bolt pistol, 1 autopistol, and 3 melee weapons.

How do we get access to Missle Launchers or are they apart of the Normal Neophytes?