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Now that there is no rules against pre-measuring distances, has anyone been annoyed by players who measure to the quarter-inch just to get a shot off but far enough to make it difficult to be charged?
Some players do this consistently every time they move a model, I just find it annoying. Any one else have this experience?

...I thought that was the whole point of premeasuring?

I'm more annoyed at the reverse: When I measure something to say 11.25" to avoid charges and say out loud I'm doing so and my opponent says nothing. Then in their turn they go, 'Hey, I rolled an 11" charge range, I measure you at 11" so I can barely reach you' and shoves their models in so it's no longer checkable. Uh, no, I stated I measured 11.25" and you didn't dispute my tape measuring skills then.

bort wrote:
I'm more annoyed at the reverse: When I measure something to say 11.25" to avoid charges and say out loud I'm doing so and my opponent says nothing. Then in their turn they go, 'Hey, I rolled an 11" charge range, I measure you at 11" so I can barely reach you' and shoves their models in so it's no longer checkable. Uh, no, I stated I measured 11.25" and you didn't dispute my tape measuring skills then.

You only need to be within an inch to have a successful charge so... uh... yeah. 11" is a successful charge, even taking you at your 11.25"
What you meant to say was they roll a 10, resulting in a difference of 1.25" and a failed charge.

But why go for that narrow a gap when half an inch is plenty? Seems like you're inviting trouble going to the quarter inch due to... judicious... measurers. Half an inch is a lot harder to manufacture than a quarter inch, after all.

Well, I was trying to write it shorter via the charge range rather than saying I rolled a 10" plus 1"...Also, since I've barely played 8th I was more thinking of prior editions.

It'd come up a fair bit back when you couldn't premeasure and your heavies had to stay still. but you could still measure while measuring their shooting and I'd think phew, I'm xth of an inch outside their charge range and then my opponent measures liberally enough to get the charge off. And it's not like you can rewind to remeasure it.

This will depend on the level of competitiveness and friendliness of a game. It is technically in a person's right to measure down to the milimeter for every tactical advantage he/she can get. However one must remember that this is, ultimately, a game for the entertainment of both.

In a Tournament setting I can see this as a sort of high-level play. In a casual, pickup game setting, this would be the equivalent of farting at a date; you are completely within your right to do so, but it's obnoxious and annoying.

Something similar exists in MTG, where you can technically request your opponent to call out every single move, down to advancing the phases (you'd be surprised how many people like to cast things at the "End" of a phase, but try to hide people reading their moves by simply demanding every single phase ending to be called out). I've been on the receiving end of this once. It is ridiculously annoying.

Now that it's within the rules my friends and I do this liberally in casual games. I don't see anything wrong with it and even back in 3rd I didn't really understand why it wasn't allowed aside from guess weapons. We don't take an obnoxious amount of time to do it; we try to maximize range for shooty units to help protect from charges. We aren't measuring down to millimetres, but every inch helps, and it takes seconds to measure; you're literally already measuring your move anyway. I don't see where the annoyance comes from unless you're hyper competitive, in which case most scenarios involving a tape measure and close call in the game probably cause fits lol.

Moving to between 11-12" is just a sensible thing to do. Why is this annoying? You know exactly how far away they are so you know that you need to move 6" and then roll 5 to charge.

No, moving smartly does not annoy me. I get annoyed when someone does something devastatingly stupid, like deepstrike a melee unit in the middle of a kill field of shooters and then whines that melee can't get into combat. Not when they use strategy and guile.

Not remotely annoyed. One of the things pre measuring is for...

The only thing I dislike when it comes to distances is the combat phase. You charge, get within 1 inch of the target unit, lets say a Land Raider. Now on the pile-in you move almost three inches along the side of the land raider and 0.1 inch closer to the Land Raider. You can repeat this as often as you like, just claim you're moving 0.01 inches closer to the LR each time.

I get that it's legal, but it's incredibly annoying.and just feels wrong.

I do this frequently, Stay 17 inches away with a 12 inch moving unit and then if they move closer in their turn its an easier charge as people usually always move their models full movement stat.

"I just find it annoying when my opponent doesn't just let me win."

Oh sweet summer children...

You say this now, but there's a reason PP brought in the limitation on widgets et al in the latest Steamroller. I'll give this about 6 months until 40kers change their tunes.

nekooni wrote:
The only thing I dislike when it comes to distances is the combat phase. You charge, get within 1 inch of the target unit, lets say a Land Raider. Now on the pile-in you move almost three inches along the side of the land raider and 0.1 inch closer to the Land Raider. You can repeat this as often as you like, just claim you're moving 0.01 inches closer to the LR each time.

I get that it's legal, but it's incredibly annoying.and just feels wrong.

If you pile the land raider in you can stop them from moving. Not a great solution but remember, can't get closer than base to hull.

Ruin wrote:
Oh sweet summer children...

You say this now, but there's a reason PP brought in the limitation on widgets et al in the latest Steamroller. I'll give this about 6 months until 40kers change their tunes.

40K has had pre measuring for a while now, this isn't something that's new to 8th.

Ruin wrote:
Oh sweet summer children...

You say this now, but there's a reason PP brought in the limitation on widgets et al in the latest Steamroller. I'll give this about 6 months until 40kers change their tunes.

We've had pre-measuring for since...4th? 5th? It's never been a problem, so we'll probably be fine there sport. It's a problem in Warmachine because extremely, laser pointer precise movement is in the rules and in the community bylines. Warhammer doesn't even have facings.

Sidebar, I don't think there's anything Warmachine is less 'sweet summer child' in than 40k. Where you're going, we've already been.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Ruin wrote:
Oh sweet summer children...

You say this now, but there's a reason PP brought in the limitation on widgets et al in the latest Steamroller. I'll give this about 6 months until 40kers change their tunes.

40K has had pre measuring for a while now, this isn't something that's new to 8th.

But it's not had a strong (official) tournament circuit for a while. Give it a bit when all of the tables are cluttered with widgets and proxy bases and you'll see a reversal in opinions.

Ruin wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Ruin wrote:
Oh sweet summer children...

You say this now, but there's a reason PP brought in the limitation on widgets et al in the latest Steamroller. I'll give this about 6 months until 40kers change their tunes.

40K has had pre measuring for a while now, this isn't something that's new to 8th.

But it's not had a strong (official) tournament circuit for a while. Give it a bit when all of the tables are cluttered with widgets and proxy bases and you'll see a reversal in opinions.

We've had a much stronger independent circuit for a long time. Trust me friend, GW events will NEVER be as competitive as the ITC. This is not a thing that will happen, because if it was going to it would have happened back before Warmahordes managed to get enough resources to make their first plastic mold.

Ruin wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Ruin wrote:
Oh sweet summer children...

You say this now, but there's a reason PP brought in the limitation on widgets et al in the latest Steamroller. I'll give this about 6 months until 40kers change their tunes.

40K has had pre measuring for a while now, this isn't something that's new to 8th.

But it's not had a strong (official) tournament circuit for a while. Give it a bit when all of the tables are cluttered with widgets and proxy bases and you'll see a reversal in opinions.

Why would that reverse opinion on pre-measuring? You'd still use the widgets to post-measure...

Sweet summer child can't be used when speaking to your elders, and if you think warmahordes is the template on what 40k will become... oh sweet summer child.

Having played in a few local, rather casual Warmahordes tournament (my second one had a rather... unfortunate start) I can attest to that the measuring widgets get rather excessive. I've got one myself, just a little .5"/1"/2" measuring widget, and a laser pointer. But so many people have piles of plastic tat to measure out every distance between 1" to 12". It was a bit absurd. But given how precise the game is compared to 40k, it's understandable to have things like that.

40k is nowhere near the level of pre-measuring and proxy bases that Warmahordes is. And likely never will be. 40k has much longer ranges and random rolls for movement, that such precision won't happen. At least not for a few editions.


My second casual tournament experience for Warmahordes started off rather... unpleasantly. The first went well. It was just a local one, and I got 4th place, out of ten people. It felt nice.
First match of my second Tournament in Kingston. At this point, I had been playing Warmahordes for only 5 or less months. My first opponent, great guy no doubt about it but. He was a player, visiting from Spain. He played on Spain's International Warmahordes team. I have never, and since, had my ass beat so hard.

Tangent over.
Premeasuring is good.

We been playing this way for years now, 6th ed did away is guessing... honestly i like it A LOT more than guessing.

Its not annoying at all.


Also it tactical to measure like that, its a tactics game.

I think a lot of decent tournament players declare distances, to avoid the hassle of having to individually measure and be very precise.

Some kind of gentlemen's agreement to shortcut things in the game that aren't necessary is a good thing (MtG tournaments allow for this too).

My group used to joke about this in Warhammer Fantasy, when you'd have a unit of Ogres stopping just millimetres outside of 8".

In 40k though, I don't see an issue with it.

No pre-measuring has been gone for quite some time.

And yes, we do the whole thing with being 11.5" away. It hasn't caused us any problems.


For the most part, I measure for the endpoints of a squad, then disperse the squad between, or measure the movement of the forward-most model, then set up the rest of the squad behind her.

Not at all. I like when it's verbally and clearly established with my opponent what the requirement is for, say, a charge to get off or a weapon to be in range.

If my opponent says "I'm deploying my land raider such that it's 20" away from your starweaver, you can't get into melta range without advancing" I know that and it saves an argument later and it's just a smart move.

I don't like it when they do it without telling you - i.e. I try to take the move and get into melta range, and he says "I tried to deploy that so it was just out of melta range!" but it was like 19.01 inches away and I've already picked the model up to move it. but when communication is clear it's greart.

Absolutely premeasure.

"Oh you're 1/5th of an inch closer to this character, than another. Therefore, you must shoot at this one."

At this point to competitive events I bring empty bases so i can put them down, and get a 100% accurate measure before i move.

And I really can't be mad. People are exploiting the targeting rules, and the nearest target rules, so I have to play smarter, and that means pre-measuring.

This literally happens to me in tournaments. You have to get your opponent to agree to distances before you move. They usually say, "oh it doesn't matter, it's just a 9" charge regardless." And I say some BS like "i like to be precise," so i can target what i want to target. If i admit what i'm trying to do, they'll overbend tape measures, or other shady stuff, to alter the measurements. Get your opponent to agree to measurements. Stop the game until they do.

You do realise we've been able to premeasure for about 10 years now, right? This isn't a new thing in 8th.#

And you were always able to premeasure by changing your mind on movement anyway.

I have not encountered that issue. I have experienced the measuring to try to limit charges or just get into rapid-fire range, but that is part of the game.

My two cents,

CB

 Marmatag wrote:
Absolutely premeasure.

"Oh you're 1/5th of an inch closer to this character, than another. Therefore, you must shoot at this one."

At this point to competitive events I bring empty bases so i can put them down, and get a 100% accurate measure before i move.

And I really can't be mad. People are exploiting the targeting rules, and the nearest target rules, so I have to play smarter, and that means pre-measuring.

This literally happens to me in tournaments. You have to get your opponent to agree to distances before you move. They usually say, "oh it doesn't matter, it's just a 9" charge regardless." And I say some BS like "i like to be precise," so i can target what i want to target. If i admit what i'm trying to do, they'll overbend tape measures, or other shady stuff, to alter the measurements. Get your opponent to agree to measurements. Stop the game until they do.

Oh yes, bending tape measures annoys me. As an Imperial Guard player with a lot of blast templates last edition, rolling near the enemy units was absolutely key, because I can't count on two hands the number of arguments that have occurred over precisely where a blast template landed, and they almost always hinged on the angle of the scatter roll. I was tempted to make a hinged parallelogram frame with graduated 12" sides a couple of times just to prove that the template was being moved parallel to the scatter roll. It even happened when I scored a direct hit!

There are several memorable times where there was at least 30 degrees between the direction the scatter roll pointed and the direction my opponent said it pointed. I mean, there's tolerance in the interpretation of the roll, and I'll almost always give you benefit of the doubt if you don't think I have the ruler precisely right, but seriously, at least try to be reasonable.

This has generally been my strong argument against pre-measuring. I don't use it in any other of the games I play, as I find it tedious and time consuming.