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2017/09/29 19:59:09
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
Galas wrote: I can't find it, but some guys in 4chan draw her without the armour and superimposed both images, saying that unlike Sister of SIlence and their wasp waist, Celestine and their Geminae where very muscular/fat, because their waist was much broader.
It was pretty hilarous, when people said that it was BS to do that kind of thing only with a female model they called people on Dakkadakka white knights and SJW, saying that they where just discussing the change of aesthetics of GW direction with female models! Probably in the news and rumours thread about Gathering Storm I one could find it.
They actually look like women wearing armour as opposed to a lot of other armoured female miniatures where the external silhouette of the armour is that of a naked woman. (so presumably they are emaciated inside there)
Wait, the new sculpts or the old sculpts? The old sculpts always looked to me like they were wearing power gloves and boots + lingerie.
As for the fat thing, well heh. I don't get it, but i know it happens. I still remember hearing people call the lead singer from evanescence fat. Its just a thing people do to women, apparently.
The new ones.
It's very telling that people sculpting old-style SoB usually start with a naked female base mini and just add a few details to it.
Of course the new ones look a bit chunky - they're wearing armour, not lingerie.
2017/09/29 21:06:27
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
I think everyone is making too big of a deal about that. The important thing about St Cel and the twins is the high level of continuity with existing models. The differences are really quite minute.
Manchu wrote: I think everyone is making too big of a deal about that. The important thing about St Cel and the twins is the high level of continuity with existing models. The differences are really quite minute.
This is why I'm certain that any new Sisters of Battle models will look very close to the way they are now, just with more detail, better definition, probably a bit bigger, and overall just... sharper and better and easier to build, customize, convert, etc, y'know, all those things that Plastic is good for.
Yeah some things might change, but it's not going to be any radical departure from what we already know.
I actually just started building a Battle Sister Squad and I'm happy that, at least with this small force, there are no duplicate sculpts. There are a lot of details that will be improved. I'm sure the Bolters they have will no longer be these long flat boxes, but may actually have an aquila or fleur on them. I bet that their robes will change in detail to better work in plastic, and I'm sure that they'll grow in size a bit. The power armor backpack is at least 20% smaller than normal Space Marine backpacks now, despite them being the same piece of equipment. And of course, I'm hoping for a variety of backpacks, heads, helmets, and other things, since right now the backpack is one copied piece across all of them. Granted, Primaris is the same....
2017/09/30 02:05:30
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
drbored wrote: My thinking is that it's just a matter of time till Greyfax and Celestine are sold on their own, now that Cawl is on his own.
It's just a matter of waiting, something SoB players are good at.
agreed - on all points
I have been holding off on buying that set because I don't want Caul but I do want the others ...
I just purchased them off a club member whom wanted Cawl but didnt want Celestine or Greyfax.
Seperates would be nice, even if the whole if you wanted 3 made tri set better value.
a second celstine would be cool to do as im crazy and wanted to do one in a alternate colour scheme.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2017/09/30 12:54:03
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
Amishprn86 wrote: No just showing that not all characters are sold separately and that SoB is no different.
Like I said earlier, Sisters only have the one character. And aside from that one character, Sisters only have a single, weak and purposeless HQ choice. Ultramarines have six named characters other than guilliman all of whom are available to purchase on their own, plus a billion options for deploying non-named characters.
So your point falls flat on its face and is irrelevant garbage. The situation simply is not the same, stop insisting it is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/30 15:33:15
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2017/09/30 22:23:52
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
Well, one thing that's telling is that new Codexes have, on the whole, not been coming out with new named characters. Primarchs and Triumvirate aside, we have only gotten a handful of new named characters.
The Death Guard release has been 'cute', giving names to otherwise generic HQ's and Elites, like Scribbus Wretch, the Tallyman. Rules-wise, he's a Tallyman, no different from any other Tallyman that anyone else would make.
My thinking is that this trend will continue. Fewer named characters and more generic HQ's that can fill a variety of roles. You can look to the Space Marine HQ for examples of what I mean, and you'll see these duplicated in other Codices.
An HQ that gives you re-rolls of 1 to hit.
An HQ that gives you re-rolls of 1 to wound.
An HQ that gives you re-rolls to hit in the Fight phase.
An HQ that gives you re-rolls to wound in the Fight phase.
Etc.
Beyond a Cannoness, what other sorts of HQ's could Sisters have? Or what models might be shifted into the HQ role to fill that out? Even AdMech had Enginseers shunted into the HQ slot to fill out their paltry selection.
2017/10/01 01:11:30
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
Canoness; same as currently, but needs access to better wargear and a better support role. There's basically no reason to take her right now except as a tax to fill up your HQ slots for command points, grants an act of faith on a 2+.
Palatine: lesser, cheap HQ, preferably one that has a different buff, grants an act of faith on a 4+.
Anointed Saint: More customizable but weaker than Celestine, comes automatically with a relic of your choice, buffs nearby Sisters based on what relic she holds, plus always grants an act of faith to a nearby squad.
But we can go further than just this with little effort. Titles like Mistress of Initiates, Relic Bearer, Anointed Saint, Armorium Superior, Exorcist Conductor, etc. Sisters are actually a very easy faction to make new *stuff* for. Same with new units, really. Though this may be a case of "the fans are more creative than the writers".
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2017/10/01 01:19:58
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
Bring back the Prioress and Palatyne? Heck i wouldnt be surprised in cannoness is made into a CP cost upgrade similar to the SM chapter master. Perhaps a Cannoness superior or something along those lines to be unimaginatively samey to the SM.
Perhaps incorporating the wider Sororitas orders of the Dialogus, Hospitaller and famulous somehow.
Granted we have hospitaller and dialogus elites, but a command element could be hamfisted in.
A Theologian of the orders dialogus for example with an aura of rerolling morale and failed faith attempts?
Just spitballing...
2017/10/01 01:25:57
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
I think one big thing they could do to improve on the Act of Faith system is instead of it behaving like Orders from the HQ, have it be like an aura.
Cannoness: Each unit within 6" of the Cannoness may attempt an Act of Faith. On a 4+, that unit gains the benefit of one Act of Faith of your choosing.
etc.
I think that'd help Sisters of Battle scale better in bigger games, instead of having to take a butt-load of imagifiers.
2017/10/01 02:47:16
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
As much as I would prefer to see more Sister characters. GW is fond of giving us Priest and Confessor types to bulk out our HQ choices. I hope they don't go that route, but we have seen it before.
I would be okay if they moved one or more of the Elite SoB characters to the HQ slot like they did with the AdMech priest (?). Give an Imagifer access to ranged wargear and perhaps aura specific banners and you might have a worthwhile cheap HQ.
A cheaper Eviscerator and a jump pack for the Canoness would help her as well.
A ton of armies and a terrain habit...
2017/10/01 03:59:25
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
Hmm, that is one thing. the Ministorum do have Uriah Jacobus, and each Codex that the Sisters have been in, they've either given things to the Grey Knights or trimmed it further. Wasn't Karamazov in the Witch Hunters Codex originally with the Sisters?
I think the thing that would get clunky is if you have these priests and things like the Penitent Engines that don't have the 'Order' keyword. If you have 'Codex: Ministorum' with a bunch of extra units that don't have the 'Order' keyword, or anything else that would give them this version of the 'chapter tactics' then you're gimping the Codex from the get-go.
Personally, I'd rather see Sisters get their own thing, and things like Assassins, Inquisitors, and Ministorum get shoved into 'Codex: Imperial Agents'...
2017/10/01 04:06:22
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
The Sister of Battle units without the "Order" keyword can work like the Imperial Guard Auxilia, Aeronautica, etc... they don't stop you from having Order/Regiment bonuses.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/10/01 04:12:57
Subject: Re:The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
If we are spit balling on things I actually want to happen:
Apart from what we know that will happen (separate order's, relics, warlord traits and strats etc)
On the list without wish listing on order abilities:
Another generic HQ (which I think is pretty much guaranteed) Either will be a Prioress (Like a Chapter master upgrade) or a Palatine (maybe re-roll wounds of 1 or something similar).
Weapons:
Cheaper eviscerator (12pts)
Cheaper melta weapons (heck I would say cheaper melta/multi, flamer/heavy and heavy bolters cause we specialise in the three and that's all)
Infantry:
Canoness: jump pack (17pts)
Imagifier down in points (35pts)
Celestian squad: give them some cc options or something
Repentia: can advance and still charge, make their SoF re-rollable
Vehicles:
Simulacrum Imperialis upgrade to vehicles (35 pts): As in still does exact same thing as a imagifier (AoF on any infantry within 6" on a 4+ etc) just can be upgraded that a vehicle can cast it on the infantry.
Exorcist: D6 damage
Just off the top of my head.
I wont restate what I think about plastic sisters. But this is what I hope SoB do get in the future (and what I expect is all we will get). But to those who have been dying for plastic sisters I do hope your wishes come true.
SC
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
2017/10/01 10:44:11
Subject: Re:The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
As much as I would prefer to see more Sister characters. GW is fond of giving us Priest and Confessor types to bulk out our HQ choices. I hope they don't go that route, but we have seen it before.
I would be okay if they moved one or more of the Elite SoB characters to the HQ slot like they did with the AdMech priest (?). Give an Imagifer access to ranged wargear and perhaps aura specific banners and you might have a worthwhile cheap HQ.
A cheaper Eviscerator and a jump pack for the Canoness would help her as well.
As a person with 20 pounds of f""ing metal models, i no longer agree with anything you say, i want f""ing plastic SOB, i hate metal, i hate playing with metal, i hate painting metal, i hate converting metal, i hate transporting metal, i hate modeling metal, i hate everything about metal.
If SoB doesnt get anything else and only plastic, i be freaking happy as can be.
As a person with 20 pounds of f""ing metal models, i no longer agree with anything you say, i want f""ing plastic SOB, i hate metal, i hate playing with metal, i hate painting metal, i hate converting metal, i hate transporting metal, i hate modeling metal, i hate everything about metal.
If SoB doesnt get anything else and only plastic, i be freaking happy as can be.
Unless they drop a new SoB unit I can't convert from the metals, and I have gotten quite good at converting them, then I won't be buying any plastic models for my Sisters. I highly doubt there is anything on the way anyways. At this point I have the sinking feeling that the rules they do get are just going to expand the role of the Ecclesiarchy within the list and not much for Sisters. Never mind the hue and cry to nerf Celestine because she buffs guard so well.
If everyone has to keep lugging around heavy metal Sisters to keep the list SoBcentric and rules that keep them competitive I am fine with that.
SoB army over SoB plastics any day.
A ton of armies and a terrain habit...
2017/10/01 19:02:31
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
If they don't finally make a full range SoB plastic product line then the new GW isn't any better than the old...
It's just stupid, i know quite a few players and also female players who would buy into SoB if the models would look a little bit better than the 2nd edition metal stuff we still have to deal with...
The 2nd edition SoBs are just really.... expecially their faces omg... i just can't and won't buy this outdated stuff. So no SoB for me and many other players until they release new/updated plastics.
I really would like to buy into SoB plastics...
My order would be huge, easily over 1000€+ just for SoB....
And 1 or 2 month later again
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/10/02 16:40:48
2017/10/02 17:30:54
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
Yeah man, that seems to be the common sympathy. "I'd buy them if they were plastic." Yet GW seems oblivious to this, or doubtful that we mean what we say?
The thing that gets me is that if they weren't going to eventually update them, why mention them at all in other Codexes? There are mentions of Guilliman freeing Ophelia VII in the Space Marine Codexes and mentions in the new Astra Militarum Codex of them being more righteous than even Crusaders. They even got Celestine. We're literally just waiting on the rest of the line to drop.
2017/10/03 14:34:54
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
I have:
Ultramarines
Tyranids
Death Guard
Necrons
Blood Angels
Orks
soon IG
6 (soon 7) freaking huge armies that don't appeal to female players at all. Not even Blood Angels. Atleast at my location.
What i am missing now is an serious female army. Sisters of Silence are just meh, SoB would be much much better, so everyone says here atleast (including females)!
Sisters of Silence kinda were just a misleading and disappointing release anyway... I was expecting SoB when they clearly said "Sisters of Battle" are coming. On their Facebook page they quote they never said "Sisters of Battle" just "Sisters..." but as everyone knows that's just bull...
40k in it's current state is absolutely nothing for female players, only a few want to play some random armies.
Most female players i met want SoB, but as soon they look at the 2nd edition stuff and expecially at the price tag they decide to rather play something different or (in most cases) not play at all.
Yes i know, some say "female" players don't really want/need female models to play 40k or any tabletop.
But that's just wrong imo, i have a complete different experience. Just use MMORPGs as an example, pretty much every female player plays an female char. Whereas male players usualy play female chars, go figure :p
2017/10/03 15:06:02
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
drbored wrote: My thinking is that it's just a matter of time till Greyfax and Celestine are sold on their own, now that Cawl is on his own.
It's just a matter of waiting, something SoB players are good at.
No, I'm terrible at waiting my patience is dead.
drbored wrote: The thing that gets me is that if they weren't going to eventually update them, why mention them at all in other Codexes? There are mentions of Guilliman freeing Ophelia VII in the Space Marine Codexes and mentions in the new Astra Militarum Codex of them being more righteous than even Crusaders.
All of this happened before with no new models being released so...
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https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2017/10/03 15:33:10
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
Himmelweiss wrote: I have:
Ultramarines
Tyranids
Death Guard
Necrons
Blood Angels
Orks
soon IG
6 (soon 7) freaking huge armies that don't appeal to female players at all. Not even Blood Angels. Atleast at my location.
What i am missing now is an serious female army. Sisters of Silence are just meh, SoB would be much much better, so everyone says here atleast (including females)!
Sisters of Silence kinda were just a misleading and disappointing release anyway... I was expecting SoB when they clearly said "Sisters of Battle" are coming. On their Facebook page they quote they never said "Sisters of Battle" just "Sisters..." but as everyone knows that's just bull...
40k in it's current state is absolutely nothing for female players, only a few want to play some random armies.
Most female players i met want SoB, but as soon they look at the 2nd edition stuff and expecially at the price tag they decide to rather play something different or (in most cases) not play at all.
Yes i know, some say "female" players don't really want/need female models to play 40k or any tabletop.
But that's just wrong imo, i have a complete different experience. Just use MMORPGs as an example, pretty much every female player plays an female char. Whereas male players usualy play female chars, go figure :p
It was hard to read your response (grammatically etc).
However, I get what you are saying. Though, your emphasis is on female players (obviously you said it like 9 times...). Multi-gender armies are not defined by one gender. For example, Eldar/Dark Eldar have a good mix of both genders (without being totally defined by it).
Yes SoB are totally defined by their gender and I love them as a parabola to SM, but there is a lot of multi or no gender armies in 40k, nids, orks, crons, etc. You seem to surmise your small pool of friends that want to play and project it on to all, well then??? I have multiple 'female friends' that do play a multitude of armies...do my friends out number yours to make it 'most'?
You say pretty much every player... do you know every player?
SC
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/03 15:52:16
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
2017/10/03 16:18:43
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
Orks are defined as masculine. Yes, they technically have no gender. But they're defined as masculine, and they define themselves as masculine. They are "Boyz", and highly macho ones at that. So they're not really useful in this discussion-- they are effectively a male-only race culturally, even if they are technically not male.
Necrons and Tau are generally male-dominated, with women being the exception-- you have "Tomb Lords" ("Lord" is traditionally associated with the masculine), and a bunch of male examples of "Tomb Lords" with no female examples outside of some obscure references that aren't reflected on the tabletop.
Tau, you have less gendered terminology (commander, for example, and most terms are in the Tau's own language anyway), but very few named female characters-- almost all male, giving off the impression of a male-dominated society.
Same with Guard, but moreso, because GW doesn't even give us a female named character for Guard and very few named female characters in books, and doesn't represent guardswomen at all on the tabletop in any shape or fashion outside of a certain very old squad which is very fanservicey and not very Guard-y.
Eldar are less so, but most of the phoenix lords were and are male and this is represented through their unit selection and named characters. Dark Eldar are simultaneously worse and better on this compared to regular Eldar.
Tyranids are the only one you're really right on. Outside of the Norn-Queen (whose alternative name, "splicer-beasts", is non-gendered, and is kind of obscure fluff anyway not appearing on the tabletop at all), they don't use gendered terminology. I've seen numerous women play Tyranid armies, actually, but this is probably only a minor factor for them.
All that said, what a lot of people forget is that ultimately, women are people, and each woman has her own individual tastes.
While marketing loves the idea of cutting women off from "people as a whole" and treating women as a monolithic group (one of marketing culture's many, many sins), honestly the best way to attract more women to the hobby is probably just to be more welcoming of women entering the hobby in the first place. Make the stores feel like a safe place women would want to spend hours of her time in. What this means varies depending on the woman and the store, but some stores have a LOT of work to do to make that happen.
edit: and well, this is kind of off topic, so I've said my piece and I'm out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/03 16:19:24
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2017/10/03 16:25:28
Subject: The Worst Kind of Hope - SoB - Read if You Want to Get Upset at an Idiot
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
