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Depends how many can ride the thing, I suppose Sicarians will take two spots each (and that's part why I believe we'll get at least 10 man cap) so that's a squad of 5 moving 11" before charge when disembarking, they'll make their charge to be sure. I did some maths a while ago and their numbers weren't very good.
5 Ruststalkers with Razors & Chordclaws, 75 pts, rerolling 1s to Hit against T4 targets gives 4,28 Razors wounds, 1,43 MW among them, + 1,94 Claw wounds, 0,65*1d3 MW among them, so an average of 3,69 W and 2,53 MW on target before saves. With Swords, that gives 6,22 W and 2,07 MW on target before saves.
That's like, two Intercessors killed. Not very good. When 5 Fulgurites give (still rerolling 1s) 5,19*1d3 W + 1,3*1d3 MW against the same target we're already at 10,38 W + 2,6 MW on average for 80 pts, not counting the MW on a 6+ on the charge for every model in the unit charged (imagine killing 5 cultists in a 30 man blob just with charging).
I don't believe Ruststalkers are very good this edition, if they had AP-2 or something they'd be something else but they're too unreliable. Ryza helps them with the reroll 1s to Wound but the Priests gets it too and have a second Fight phase for 3CP.
I tried 10 Ruststalker from the Drill in more eased battle. Frankly? I'd rather have Fulgurites. They simply cannot compare - Fulgurites come with improved inv, fight again, FnP and lots and lots of Mortal wounds, on top of the -2AP, on top of the D3 normal damage. IF the new transport could take only Skitarii, then I'm willing to try Ruststalkers again - they are cheaper alright, and (if the new toy could fly far and fast) I can imagine I want to drop Ruststalkers in the ruins to open up a flank turn 1, give them a benefit of cover, and jump 8" to another target. Otherwise however... they need something, anything, to compete.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/05 20:34:01
Kanluwen wrote: Cult stuff is Cult stuff. They said this is a transport for Skitarii. It really better be just for them.
Bad enough our army rules got screwed because of the whiny Cult players to begin with. Let us get something nice for Skitarii and Skitarii alone.
You're reading way too much into the skitarii asking the question. Think about it, who else "lore wise" would ask a question like that? Electropriests? They're too fanatical for that. Ruststalkers? They're crazy. An enginseer? Maybe but it seems odd he'd question a superior. A servitor? Nope
Skitarii makes the most sense to say "hey boss we need a ride if you want us to do anything useful", so for a quick 1 minute teaser they're the natural choice.
It never says anything about skitarii only. It could be, I wouldn't be shocked, but it's hardly set in stone. And I didn't think about the possibility of a skimmer. While I'd be sad that we don't get some awesome glimpse of the original M.U.L.E people carriers, a skimmer would tactically be very handy for our army. We desperately need that speed and ability to get over terrain from a tactical standpoint. And I guess it wouldn't really be out of place lore wise. If anyone still had working Grav tech laying around, one would think it's the admech, especially since they build landspeeders and repulsors for the marines all the time. If we do get a skimmer transport, that's a huge benefit to stuff like electropriests or plasma vanguard, units that can hit hard but lack mobility. Yeah drills can do that but they can be denied deepstriking zones, the skimmers could fly over into the backline and do their thing.
Honestly I just wish GW would let us use regular Imperium vehicles. Yeah chimeras and rhinos arent flashy but they work, make sense, and they're already being made (in lore and in game) maybe give them some admech specific rules and a slight price increase and call it a day. Bare minimum rhinos and razorbacks. I wouldn't really use them much but they'd make sense. We're the admech and half our rules involve repairing things, it's really odd we have so few vehicles to use those rules with. Hell I've been resorting to allying guard armored companies just to give enginseers something to do.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Thankyou, you are speaking sense. And if by some weird quirk the rules team forget that codex skitarii and codex cult are now merged then we simply Send them lots of emails requesting they fix it
They do seem to be listening. Incidentally anyone been asking them to drop Manipulus to 60 points?
I have searched high and low but can’t find the article that had them tease it being pointed between an enginseer and a dominus. I’m starting to think that claim was just hype chatter from news outlets rather than gw community team. My memory is fuzzy lol
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/05 21:02:15
Kanluwen wrote: Cult stuff is Cult stuff. They said this is a transport for Skitarii. It really better be just for them.
Bad enough our army rules got screwed because of the whiny Cult players to begin with. Let us get something nice for Skitarii and Skitarii alone.
You're reading way too much into the skitarii asking the question. Think about it, who else "lore wise" would ask a question like that? Electropriests? They're too fanatical for that. Ruststalkers? They're crazy. An enginseer? Maybe but it seems odd he'd question a superior. A servitor? Nope
Skitarii makes the most sense to say "hey boss we need a ride if you want us to do anything useful", so for a quick 1 minute teaser they're the natural choice.
Ruststalkers are Skitarii. They're classified as "Sicarian", same as the Infiltrators(who aren't "crazy" as you put it) are.
It never says anything about skitarii only. It could be, I wouldn't be shocked, but it's hardly set in stone. And I didn't think about the possibility of a skimmer. While I'd be sad that we don't get some awesome glimpse of the original M.U.L.E people carriers, a skimmer would tactically be very handy for our army. We desperately need that speed and ability to get over terrain from a tactical standpoint. And I guess it wouldn't really be out of place lore wise. If anyone still had working Grav tech laying around, one would think it's the admech, especially since they build landspeeders and repulsors for the marines all the time. If we do get a skimmer transport, that's a huge benefit to stuff like electropriests or plasma vanguard, units that can hit hard but lack mobility. Yeah drills can do that but they can be denied deepstriking zones, the skimmers could fly over into the backline and do their thing.
"We" don't need that speed. Electropriests do.
We've also seen the MULE. It's the Onager. It was renamed, equipped with the Emanatus shields, and brought up as the Onager.
Ideasweasel wrote:Thankyou, you are speaking sense. And if by some weird quirk the rules team forget that codex skitarii and codex cult are now merged then we simply Send them lots of emails requesting they fix it
So what if they're merged? Scions can't use <Regiment> vehicles, Primaris can't use anything other than the Repulsor, and nobody but Skitarii get access to Doctrina Imperatives.
Suzuteo wrote: I agree. Castellan is not "dead." In fact, he is more dangerous than ever. Because he will go back to how he was at the beginning. Nobody is going to prep for him as hard as before the FAQ, and there will be a much more target-rich environment for him.
That being said, all the top ITC players are moving toward monofaction lists. AdMech has a unique advantage now in that we are pretty much the only ones who can run a solo Castellan or Crusader.
Anyhow, I was doing my homework yesterday, and I am sort of shook. Chaos is incredibly strong now. Krast Styrix or no, I am very worried about that matchup, and I am less confident that Drill+Priest will cut it.
I always really like your lists but I feel like the Styrix together with Drill + Priest are the weakest points of your list. I understand that you get a "free" relic and WLT with it since he got an inbuilt 4++/5++. But with the changes to Rotate Ion Shields it might not be that valid of an argument anymore. You could for example also give a Crusader now a "freeish" WLT since you can run him with the standard 5++ and spend 1 CP to boost it.
Yeah. I think I need to go back to the old gunline with Knight and Dragoons and maybe Breachers as a screen.
I actually think that not much has changed. You went from having to spend 1 CP per turn AND give up your WLT to OR. Given I consider the RR1 WLT to be worth way more and your Knight usually only needs to be fed CP 3 turns, a Crusader essentially has a "costs 3 CP" ability. (And even still, he doesn't have 5++ in melee.)
Anyhow, I personally still think the Krast Styrix is better than the Krast Crusader. Avenger is a great gun, but the range is a huge weakness; meanwhile, RFBC and TC are really meh. (Chaos really has it made with the Double Avenger build. Sigh...) The Stormspear is actually really good given its cost, but it's yet more eggs in one basket. The Volkite has a much better profile for Titan duels, and the Reaper variant is very light in terms of points. (Crusader is 578 and 3 CP to the Styrix's 475.)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/06 11:32:16
Ideasweasel wrote: Let’s say it’s limited to just skitarii. Are you going to buy one? I wouldn’t. I hardly see the point in flinging a few rangers up the board.
Peltasts, Hoplites, Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, or Vanguard can also be used.
I've already set aside around $130 for at least two, and am hoping for a Skitarii HQ to go with them.
If that happens I’ll just stick with the drill, it will save me a bit of cash anyway.
I don't own a drill nor do I want one, since I don't own Electropriests.
Ideasweasel wrote: Let’s say it’s limited to just skitarii. Are you going to buy one? I wouldn’t. I hardly see the point in flinging a few rangers up the board.
If that happens I’ll just stick with the drill, it will save me a bit of cash anyway.
Its all gonna come down to points cost and transport capacity. If its cheap enough, something like an early mechanized rush of Stygies Arc Rifle packing Rangers becomes an intriguing possibility.
Ideasweasel wrote: Let’s say it’s limited to just skitarii. Are you going to buy one? I wouldn’t. I hardly see the point in flinging a few rangers up the board.
Peltasts, Hoplites, Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, or Vanguard can also be used.
I've already set aside around $130 for at least two, and am hoping for a Skitarii HQ to go with them.
If that happens I’ll just stick with the drill, it will save me a bit of cash anyway.
I don't own a drill nor do I want one, since I don't own Electropriests.
I dont get why you WANT the drill to be skitarii only. If you dislike the cybernetica cohort its fine, but asking for GW to put more restrictions sucks for the rest of us that dont separate our already low-options codex in two. If you dont want to run priests in the transport, then dont, even if the transport allows it doesnt mean you HAVE to.
You assuming that the drill can only take electropriests makes me think that you feel like its the only option. I've run my drill with Hoplites, Vanguards and Ruststalkers to a decent result.
Ideasweasel wrote: Let’s say it’s limited to just skitarii. Are you going to buy one? I wouldn’t. I hardly see the point in flinging a few rangers up the board.
Peltasts, Hoplites, Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, or Vanguard can also be used.
I've already set aside around $130 for at least two, and am hoping for a Skitarii HQ to go with them.
If that happens I’ll just stick with the drill, it will save me a bit of cash anyway.
I don't own a drill nor do I want one, since I don't own Electropriests.
I dont get why you WANT the drill to be skitarii only.
Try reading a bit better.
I didn't say "I want the drill to be skitarii only". I said that "I want whatever got teased to be Skitarii only".
The drill can be whatever it wants to be, I don't care. I have zero interest in that item.
If you dislike the cybernetica cohort its fine, but asking for GW to put more restrictions sucks for the rest of us that dont separate our already low-options codex in two. If you dont want to run priests in the transport, then dont, even if the transport allows it doesnt mean you HAVE to.
You assuming that the drill can only take electropriests makes me think that you feel like its the only option. I've run my drill with Hoplites, Vanguards and Ruststalkers to a decent result.
If you can't recognize why I said "I don't own a drill nor do I want one, since I don't own Electropriests"--that's on you. It's not because I "assume that the drill can only take electropriests"--I'm aware of how it works. I just don't like it, and won't field it because it doesn't go with my theme/setup.
Yoda79 wrote: Styyrix is fw. I'd suggest if you take a solo knight try crusader.
Maybe not vs styrix and prefferancd but crusaders are back in menu.
Ive seen lots of talk about the Styrix being good, do people run him with the chainsword or do they upgrade to the siege claw?
Also is the model the same size as GW Questoris knights? if so then i might proxy it in a few games to test it.
Yoda79 wrote: Styyrix is fw. I'd suggest if you take a solo knight try crusader.
Maybe not vs styrix and prefferancd but crusaders are back in menu.
Ive seen lots of talk about the Styrix being good, do people run him with the chainsword or do they upgrade to the siege claw?
Also is the model the same size as GW Questoris knights? if so then i might proxy it in a few games to test it.
Claw all the way. Rad cleanser is RAD . And its good, not outstandingly good but its good. It's the same size, its basically conversion kit for normal knight.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
Yoda79 wrote: Styyrix is fw. I'd suggest if you take a solo knight try crusader.
Maybe not vs styrix and prefferancd but crusaders are back in menu.
Well, it was really cheap to just buy a shady upgrade kit and add the bits to my existing Knight components.
Crusaders definitely are back on the menu, but I think the only time you would really want them are Triple Crusaders. A solo Crusader has many disadvantages in a matchup against a solo Styrix or Castellan. Namely, if you don't have a good deployment, they get to shoot first, and in the case of the Styrix, if it ever gets to CC, you're screwed because the Styrix has built-in 5++ in melee.
I suppose for us, the choice is Castellan if you want something with lots of dakka. Styrix if you want a cheap, well-rounded model; they are essentially super-Errants.
Yoda79 wrote: Styyrix is fw. I'd suggest if you take a solo knight try crusader.
Maybe not vs styrix and prefferancd but crusaders are back in menu.
Ive seen lots of talk about the Styrix being good, do people run him with the chainsword or do they upgrade to the siege claw?
Also is the model the same size as GW Questoris knights? if so then i might proxy it in a few games to test it.
Both work. When you get the Claw, it's for the rad cleanser mostly; you cannot Death Grip with it, sadly. When you are Krast, Feet > Claw/Gauntlet for virtually everything. Reaper > Feet against T5-7 targets with less than 10W. Plus, you can Chainsweep and Devastating Reach with it.
Yes. It's Questoris Knight with fancy extra parts. Mine is magnetized.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/05/06 17:21:57
House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 475
Lord of War - 475 1x Knight Styrix - Volkite Chierovile, Reaper Chainsword, Graviton Crusher, Warlord: First Knight (-1 CP), Relic: Headsman's Mark (-1 CP)
Total: 1999 points 13 CP (-3)
Decided to slot some Breachers in there. Is it a problem that they are not Stygies? I figure Mars for two Canticles, reroll all hits, 6" of extra shooting range, and Raiment for extra Overwatch goodness. (It's remarkable how far we have come in terms of force multipliers) Also, is 3x3 okay? I see a lot of people taking them in units of 4-6, but since I am not doing any of the resurrect mechanics, 3 seems fine to me.
I am thinking Necromechanic over Monitor Malevolus here as well. The former is nice if I just want to try to keep the Knight up as long as possible. I would put it on my Enginseer and forward deploy the Graians with the Knight to screen and counter-charge. Plus, this list consumes surprisingly little CP. Most of it just goes into the Knight, Wrath of Mars, and Command Rerolls. Maybe Doctrina, Acquisition, and Strafing Fire Run.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 21:01:00
House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 475
Lord of War - 475 1x Knight Styrix - Volkite Chierovile, Reaper Chainsword, Graviton Crusher, Warlord: First Knight (-1 CP), Relic: Headsman's Mark (-1 CP)
Total: 1999 points 13 CP (-3)
Decided to slot some Breachers in there. Is it a problem that they are not Stygies? I figure Mars for two Canticles, reroll all hits, 6" of extra shooting range, and Raiment for extra Overwatch goodness. (It's remarkable how far we have come in terms of force multipliers) Also, is 3x3 okay? I see a lot of people taking them in units of 4-6, but since I am not doing any of the resurrect mechanics, 3 seems fine to me.
I am thinking Necromechanic over Monitor Malevolus here as well. The former is nice if I just want to try to keep the Knight up as long as possible. I would put it on my Enginseer and forward deploy the Graians with the Knight to screen and counter-charge. Plus, this list consumes surprisingly little CP. Most of it just goes into the Knight, Wrath of Mars, and Command Rerolls. Maybe Doctrina, Acquisition, and Strafing Fire Run.
make the breachers group of 5-6. make even a 3 man destroyers better for Robots. REmove the Onagers you dont need them. and you are closer to mine every day Also you need to remove Cawl to another detachment? and add a dominus cause you definetly need that hermeticon + dominus can buff +1 to hit if you go vigilus. + you can use servitors to revive them. i know i repaet my self but your closer now.
Stok grai Rangers dont do nothing atm in your list. 2 groups are enough for back field breachers and knight will push forth.
Tbh you should be looking for my list now. 2 groups of rangers with sniper one destroyers even if they are 3. make one detachment with breachers 3*4-6 and you should be fine. DOminus servitors if you can . and ally Knight. You ll have to mage the cp each game but its doable.
Dont forget 4 robots and infiltrators are better than 5 robots. 3 robots and 3 destroyers are better than 4 robots etc. the options possibilities are better in competitive. build accordingly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 23:02:03
Why is that? Do the Breachers become more efficient somehow with numbers? Am I missing something?
I still like the Icarus Crawlers. I think Tau is going to be the big bad with Castellans and Ynnari greatly diminished, monofaction becoming more prominent, and the changes to the Overwatch rules.
If I do Destroyers, I would make the Graia detachment a mixed unit and put a Dominus in. But that would mean dropping the Breachers because I only have 9 of those things:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1045 Cohort Cybernetica (-1 CP)
HQ - 280 1x Belisarius Cawl
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr
House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 475
Lord of War - 475 1x Knight Styrix - Volkite Chierovile, Reaper Chainsword, Graviton Crusher, Warlord: First Knight (-1 CP), Relic: Headsman's Mark (-1 CP)
Total: 1998 points 13 CP (-4)
This actually looks exactly like my Soup list, only with a Knight instead of Catachans. Haha. I am a bit worried about my ability to screen though. Only 5x5 Skitarii to hold objectives; Destroyers can too, but they will always seek the best cover they can get. Isn't the idea to have the Knight+Skitarii in front, then the Breachers as a second screen, then the Dakkabots, all getting the +6" range and reroll hits?
CP might be another problem. I go down to 9, and I am burning at least 4 per turn. I guess I may need the Monitor Malevolus WLT for this list? Put it on the Manipulus, I guess?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/06 23:20:57
Suzuteo wrote: Why is that? Do the Breachers become more efficient somehow with numbers? Am I missing something?
They get affected by stratagems better and maybe can take more advantage of hiding everyone but one breacher in LOS blocking cover, but that's about it AFAIK.
I don't really plan on investing much CP into Breachers. Maybe Acquisition at all Costs in a tough spot, but what else? If they were Destroyers though, there's Elimination Volley, Noospheric Lock, and Plasma Specialists...
Suzuteo wrote: Why is that? Do the Breachers become more efficient somehow with numbers? Am I missing something?
Stratagems likely. At least the big honking squad of 9 I faced last tournament was receiver of stratagem or two and shot like hell. Poor mek guns were vaporized instantly off board.
AdMech (Main army)
Black Templars (original army)
Death Guard (lazy side project)
Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
Harlequins (fun side project)
