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Suzuteo wrote: Haha. I dunno. It's an amusing experimental setup that I have seen floating around in some tourneys, but I am not sure if it's better than Mars gunline, with their consistent Shroudpsalm and shooting.
This is actually what I am currently thinking to bring:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1419 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 275 1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr
Dropped the Knight and Graia. Picked up 3 Destroyers for the option to Elimination Volley (they shoot pretty well even without the +1 to hit thanks to Cawl) and Stygies Dragoon Bomb. Rangers are just going to be Engineers and hide behind walls.
Questions up for debate:
1) Breachers as Mars or Stygies? As Mars, their guns actually do a decent job against T5-6 vehicles. But as Stygies, they become much harder to remove. Fighting power is nothing to write home about.
2) Graia or Stygies for the second detachment? Graia has a much more impactful stratagem, and I can pay -1 CP to take an Auxiliary detachment. Relates to #1, since if I run Breachers as Stygies, this question is moot.
Here's what it would look like with Stygies Breachers:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1249 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 275 1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr
I still believe we are once more confused. This is what a list you make with your models or a competitive list?
And i ll answer here quickly before you even aswer me since you are the math hammer man i usually tend to field the models simple question. 80 points 2 lascannon shots 90 points 6 arc shots and most important breachers save 2+
If you invest in Cawl then you are deepending on a bs 4 reroll or +1-2 hit. You dont need the balistarii. You where the one suzuteo to bluntly put that if we field a buffer of 190 points then you should invest.
So first option. You take Cawl and build upon it no Balistarii . or build with out and dominus is enough for balistariii spam. So again you wasting points and lower your synergy when you try to mix models and no plan. You still ask me and im here to answer you once more.
Build one plan. the problems are classik ad mech ones.
1) cant invest on robots with out Cawl and destroyers and if you do....
2) You cant effectively take striders outside of stygies limiting you ind etachment
3) What ever the way is yo uneed to consider heavy cp needs. So no fancy detachents.
said that. Build on battalions. If you know Cawl Value breachers and destroyers then build upon it.
And you dont want any ally? nothing pure ad mech ??? Cause there are issues we got on the table and that are not easily overcomed with pure mech.
So when we decide upon those questions i can answer more precice on the list building. But as it is its not functional or not optimized if you prefer.
so my take before you answer would be.
Minimum
bat
Cawl
Manip.
3x5 ranger 1 sniper
3x robot
bat
domi
engin
breacher arc
breacher hydralic
Destroyer x6 grav
minimum. from that point on you either invest in another detachment and bring what you like and in your case might be stygies and dragoons nothing else and play with limited cp usage.
or again change course to with out Cawl etc most likely mixed detachments with stygies all kinds of balistarii ryza plasma etc etc so yo would be spending your cp with lower demand and able to field different detachments.
OR take guard
Or take mobile ally.
its not possible to go single list Tourney and mix everything inside. simply put. and if you really cant part your striders i would suggest the split lower cp list.
ryza destroyers split in groups of 6? with 2-3robots ryza dominus one detachment rangers one detachment.
Stygies dragoons spamm maybe even priests.
Mixed with graia defender all kinds servitors for revive destroyers and all else you might need mos tlikely infiltrators etc .
since you cant take Knight detachment with helverins since ad mech does not really benefit from these kind of smaller groups. But at elast you can maximise the benefits of each unit and build on it. SO you can take hq to buff only dragoons or infiltrators in bigger numbers for mortals then you can have onagers that will greatly hel you in these kind of lists. and your rangers morale and your toughness since they got our best defence T7 invu 5 rerolling 1.
thats hgow it goes atm for Ad mech
1) MArs breachers all the way spamm it
2) Mix it all up Stygies graia Mars all possible unit dependant stratatgems using according to enemy.
3) as i told you allies in various forms and various results from knights to sisters all work wonders to cover up some key areas.
cant have both in same list either the stratagems will not be enough or the units or the amount of dice etc. You got nothing to gain from a 80 point lascannon atm when you can already take CAwl and breachers. I will not give you an advice that is wrong and you where the first to say it . Invest in Cawl = take something that needs the buff . balistarii dont. better build on icarus oangers tbh. The amount of dice and bs 4+ rerolling or superb vs flier. we have talked 1000 times about it.
The new transport is confirmed to have 4 heavy stubbers and 2 broad spectrum data tethers, nice. That will pair well with the infantry it'll be carrying.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote: The new transport is confirmed to have 4 heavy stubbers and 2 broad spectrum data tethers, nice. That will pair well with the infantry it'll be carrying.
They also confirmed that it will have 2 Directional fins, 4 ammo boxes and 1 disembarking ramp!
So I will be playing in an escalation league in the near future.
rules:
Start at 600pts, max points increase by 200 per week for 8 weeks to 2kpts. but if you do not use all of the points in the following weeks they will be lost (but you are allowed a buffer of 30pts, e.g. week 2 my list is now at 775pts - no points lost, if I only use 750pts I will loose 20pts). also Superheavys are not allowed until week 6 either (i.e. no Knights starting off).
must also keep the same forgeworld, WL traits/relics etc. as well as the same army that you used in prior weeks.
I have two lists to start and was wondering what people thought:
Opponents could be any army - there are Marines, Guard, Nurgle CSM, CSM, GSC, Nids, Crons, Orks, Tau etc.
Missions will be straight out of the CA 2018 book, with ITC rules on Terrain.
Kastelan Robots [12 PL, 220pts] . Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
@Yoda79
The Ryza list is experimental; I want to discuss other directions we can go. That recent list I posted is what I actually have on hand.
The Las-striders have really stood out, actually. They move fast, shoot very far, deal serious damage against T4/8, and don't NEED to be in the Cawl bubble to hit. Also very strong against Eldar aircraft. I almost guaranteedly kill one a turn. (Ironically, in my only tourney match against Eldar aircraft, the guy made 5 FNP rolls or something. It was crazy.)
Same cannot be said for Mars Breachers. Aside from the one time I shot them into a Dreadnought, they really have been underwhelming in terms of shooting. They do very well against light vehicles though for sure. So I would consider them a screen first and a shooting unit second.
I play ITC rules. They have faction qualifications. To play AdMech, I can only play AdMech, Unaligned, Assassin, and Knight models. For the Knight, it can only be a single Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment. That is why I don't have allies.
So what do you think? Assassin or Destroyers for Elimination Volley?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/21 04:50:23
12" movement is nice, still no idea if it has additionnal rules however. Are these rules preview article usually full rules?
The lack of invuln save feels weird in admech , so i feel like it has some things missing.
Rules previews are almost never the full datasheet and we have not seen the full rules yet. While I think most other factions would be jealous if Admech got a reasonably priced transport with an invuln save we have no reason to think it will or wont have one
I'm a little worried that it's only T6; it's like an up-gunned hover Trukk (though that does sound appealing all to itself). Even the Rhino and Chimera are T7. Have to wait and see what the $ price / points costs are...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/21 15:03:04
"The only problem with your genepool is that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty to prevent you from swimming."
"You either die a Morty, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Rick."
Suzuteo wrote: @Yoda79
The Ryza list is experimental; I want to discuss other directions we can go. That recent list I posted is what I actually have on hand.
The Las-striders have really stood out, actually. They move fast, shoot very far, deal serious damage against T4/8, and don't NEED to be in the Cawl bubble to hit. Also very strong against Eldar aircraft. I almost guaranteedly kill one a turn. (Ironically, in my only tourney match against Eldar aircraft, the guy made 5 FNP rolls or something. It was crazy.)
Same cannot be said for Mars Breachers. Aside from the one time I shot them into a Dreadnought, they really have been underwhelming in terms of shooting. They do very well against light vehicles though for sure. So I would consider them a screen first and a shooting unit second.
I play ITC rules. They have faction qualifications. To play AdMech, I can only play AdMech, Unaligned, Assassin, and Knight models. For the Knight, it can only be a single Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment. That is why I don't have allies.
So what do you think? Assassin or Destroyers for Elimination Volley?
If I was playing Itc most likely I would play a more safer list than etc. Dont forget we design lists for specific matchups while you chache the dragon .
That said and while I see you love your balistarii and you can have drrillsssss I'd try something like Nanavati with Las can balistarii and drills priests .
Or a full mech list balistarii dragoons onagers dominus even one knight but all vehicle a simple wanna be knight list will give you an easy winning route from lists with lower anti tank .
Why drills and lasc balistarii cause drills are big and can screen better than onagers balistarii can shot above them you got shoot priests lucius fo chaf and staff priests to kill anything else. Extremee but lethal .
Same goes for the veehick list now with new vehicle even more doable and los shooting . Should be perfect vehicle lists tough shoot moblie etc.
I use like 30 kataphrons models and still are not enough too sceen all game . And I just their 30 ish shots to actually kill many things like knights. Even ws5+ melee . But it's dependant on numbers not quality . You try the priest if you got like 50 or the vehicle list it's should get you easier higher .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/21 15:05:17
As expected since we already have the Dunecrawler the tank main gun is kinda underwhelming....except that belleros energy cannon. 3D3 with experience from my mork usually is 6-8 shots, given wonky D3 maths. AP isnt that great, but its still Str6 with 2D, decent reach, and can snipe crap hiding behind walls. I like it. Its basically an Autocannon that sacrifices a strength for out of LOS shooting, Str6 still hits multiwound nonvehicles just as hard as Str7, which is what it would be after primarily. Could care less about the other two.
Also slightly worried about the transport. These are never full rules but you'd think they'd make a big deal about it being open topped. If it isnt open topped ima be sad as sad can be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/21 15:06:32
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Two onagers plus two scorpions it is. And well, rhinos may have t7 but they can't have -1 to hit if i remember correctly. All in all if price in points isn't bonkers, we have something to celebrate.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
Vineheart01 wrote:As expected since we already have the Dunecrawler the tank main gun is kinda underwhelming....except that belleros energy cannon.
3D3 with experience from my mork usually is 6-8 shots, given wonky D3 maths. AP isnt that great, but its still Str6 with 2D, decent reach, and can snipe crap hiding behind walls. I like it. Its basically an Autocannon that sacrifices a strength for out of LOS shooting, Str6 still hits multiwound nonvehicles just as hard as Str7, which is what it would be after primarily.
Could care less about the other two.
Also slightly worried about the transport. These are never full rules but you'd think they'd make a big deal about it being open topped. If it isnt open topped ima be sad as sad can be.
.
yep, probably some rules missing and i really hope that its open topped. The no invuln and the fact that it only says that 10 infantry model (not saying that kataphrons count for 2 slots like they usually do for heavy infantry) makes me want to see the datasheet ASAP.
Spera wrote:Two onagers plus two scorpions it is. And well, rhinos may have t7 but they can't have -1 to hit if i remember correctly. All in all if price in points isn't bonkers, we have something to celebrate.
rhinos have bad shooting so they usually just take smoke launchers and use it turn 1
Vineheart01 wrote:As expected since we already have the Dunecrawler the tank main gun is kinda underwhelming....except that belleros energy cannon.
3D3 with experience from my mork usually is 6-8 shots, given wonky D3 maths. AP isnt that great, but its still Str6 with 2D, decent reach, and can snipe crap hiding behind walls. I like it. Its basically an Autocannon that sacrifices a strength for out of LOS shooting, Str6 still hits multiwound nonvehicles just as hard as Str7, which is what it would be after primarily.
Could care less about the other two.
Also slightly worried about the transport. These are never full rules but you'd think they'd make a big deal about it being open topped. If it isnt open topped ima be sad as sad can be.
.
yep, probably some rules missing and i really hope that its open topped. The no invuln and the fact that it only says that 10 infantry model (not saying that kataphrons count for 2 slots like they usually do for heavy infantry) makes me want to see the datasheet ASAP.
Spera wrote:Two onagers plus two scorpions it is. And well, rhinos may have t7 but they can't have -1 to hit if i remember correctly. All in all if price in points isn't bonkers, we have something to celebrate.
rhinos have bad shooting so they usually just take smoke launchers and use it turn 1
Our dunecrawlers at least have to switch their BSDT for smoke launchers.
With the range on our dunecrawlers, i dont see the point of using smoke launchers instead of BSDT's, there are very little situations where we arent in range to shoot anything.
Spera wrote:Two onagers plus two scorpions it is. And well, rhinos may have t7 but they can't have -1 to hit if i remember correctly. All in all if price in points isn't bonkers, we have something to celebrate.
rhinos have bad shooting so they usually just take smoke launchers and use it turn 1
That is if they have 1st turn, if they don't to bad for them. It is probable that new transport may also be able to take them(this is standard equipment after all) gaining -2 in the process. -2 for even one round can be bonkers.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
Spera wrote:Two onagers plus two scorpions it is. And well, rhinos may have t7 but they can't have -1 to hit if i remember correctly. All in all if price in points isn't bonkers, we have something to celebrate.
rhinos have bad shooting so they usually just take smoke launchers and use it turn 1
That is if they have 1st turn, if they don't to bad for them. It is probable that new transport may also be able to take them(this is standard equipment after all) gaining -2 in the process. -2 for even one round can be bonkers.
on the transport version i could see it being useful, on the tank version with the belicosa i'm gonna shoot at hidden drones/mortars all day long, the skorpius has a 48" threat range that ignores line of sight.
S6 is a great number to have when you're trying to cook hiding Guardsmen and Bikes.
Assuming the costs are reasonable (100ish?), it looks like it'll slot right in to a Cawl's Moving Castle. They complement your LOS shooting by hitting the infantry hiding in cover. They're probably Skitarii too, so you can Doctrina them for virtually guaranteed hit.
I wonder if the tank is a half-capacity transport though, like an IFV. They would be amazing good then. And I wonder if the transport gets open top since it has that missing 1T.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/21 16:00:47
I'm really digging the rules for both, it's like someone's actually listening to our grievances and made a kit that addressed a whole bunch of them. Doesn't appear to have fly if they're giving those special rules but if it does that will really push this thing into greatness. Take following with grain of salt, assuming sane pts values for both.
At first glance the transport is just about perfect. T6 sucks but it's open topped, you'd be crazy to think it wasn't going to have lower toughness. BSDT is handy, stubbers are perfect, and it's got a nice movement value. As a Metalica player it doesn't immediately strike me as useful but if it can carry kataphrons it may be a handy bunker for when I know a unit is gonna get targeted by indirect fire. This all goes out the window if we can shoot out of it. If we can shoot out I'll be doing all sorts of crazy stuff with it, especially if advancing the transport doesn't affect the infantry inside and the cognis stubbers still hit on 5's. A Metalica dunerider with two 5 man double plasma squads would make a vicious little light tank to push up the board if they can shoot out and advance with no penalties. Other Forgeworlds will get a ton of utility out of this regardless, very happy overall assuming good pts cost.
On to the tank. Once again GW gives us heavy weapons and a rule that means heavy weapons doesn't actually mean anything when they could've just made them assault weapons, meaning Metalica is useless, again. That said, the tank itself looks great. 3 heavy stubbers is 9 s4 shots for 6pts, can't beat that. The hull mounted missiles while nothing spectacular are solid, I just dislike the random shot/damage, but as long as it's not stupid expensive it'll work. The ferrumite cannon is nice and will probably be the cheap way to kit it out. Yeah it's nothing crazy but do not underestimate S8, AP 3, and flat 3 damage. Guard players gladly pay for a relic to get that flat 3 damage, it's very handy. Essentially makes it a pretty punchy light tank between that and the missiles. The real star though is the mortar. 3d3 shots is really nice with less chance to get screwed on dice, S6 is a good value and with Ap1 and flat 2 damage it'll shred enemy mortar teams, or 2 W infantry hiding ok objectives. The only annoying bit is the range, but with a 12" move and the fact that it has other guns, it's not a huge deal. At T7, 3+(with potentially 5+ invuln) and 12 wounds, it pairs well with our other vehicles in saturating that T7 bracket. We have tons of repairs to help keep it around, and it has the speed to try and avoid heavy hitters if you can hide it behind terrain. Again, really like it.
From the looks of things I'll get one for sure, maybe 2. Goal is magnets but if I can't they'll be the tanks assuming reasonable points costs.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Personally I would liked it to have 4x4 =16 transport capacity which could easily fit in there, and its got more space than a chimera or a rhino which transports bigger astartes. -2 for the gunners.
That way we could give support characters a ride too.
Would have like the Battletank to be T8 and have better weapons, with funky abilities as fitting for Admech. I mean our little Dunecrawler is T7 and our Chicken which has almost no armor plates and is really thin is T6.
Didnt expect it to have fly but was kinda expecting a pseudo fly being able to fall back and shoot, which would be really good for a frontline vehicle.
S6 is a great number to have when you're trying to cook hiding Guardsmen and Bikes.
Assuming the costs are reasonable (100ish?), it looks like it'll slot right in to a Cawl's Moving Castle. They complement your LOS shooting by hitting the infantry hiding in cover. They're probably Skitarii too, so you can Doctrina them for virtually guaranteed hit.
I wonder if the tank is a half-capacity transport though, like an IFV. They would be amazing good then. And I wonder if the transport gets open top since it has that missing 1T.
Theirs no way that tank will be 100ish its got a load of missiles aswell as its main gun 150-300 in GW pts darts
I'd like to remember people that the "open-topness" isnt confirmed yet, so keep that in mind when evaluating the model.
What im most excited about is the ability for more reliable T1 charges with a stygies transport. And the fact that the transport itself can easily soak up the overwatch for its payload, my fulgurites love this.
Another point is that they only mentionned that it can transport 10 INFANTRY, with no word about kataphrons. If they can emark, this means that we wont have to rely on terrain to protect kataphrons anymore.
Since we havnt seen any flyer base so far, i think its fair to assume it wont have one (i should look at the sprues to try and spot if it has a plug for one underneath), it not flying and being quite chunky means that once disembarked, we'll be able to cut off some line of sight to protect our smaller units (kataphrons, fulgurites are the interesting ones to me).
I'm scared to see the points costs, i feel like the tank version especially will be overcosted.
I feel like it won’t be open-topped. I also feel like, given the recent example of the Manipulus, it will be overcosted and we may not see this fixed any time soon. And finally, given how the drill worked, I expect it won’t be able to transport Secutarii or Kataphrons.
But I am a fan of the data sheets or what we’ve seen of them. My only question now is the invuln save. 5++ like an Onager? 6++ like a chicken? Nothing at all like a drill? The latter would make it the first admech codex unit besides Servitors to not have any invuln, so I feel it wouldn’t be fluffy or fitting (and servitors should really have a 6++ Bionics save anyway, given they’re also half metal).
if its not opentopped and doesnt have an invul then it will probably never see table play except for "no forgeworld" formats.
4 heavy stubbers does not make it enticing, and other than being a transport thats all it has going for it right now. It better be opentopped, especially given its design.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Pomguo wrote: I feel like it won’t be open-topped. I also feel like, given the recent example of the Manipulus, it will be overcosted and we may not see this fixed any time soon. And finally, given how the drill worked, I expect it won’t be able to transport Secutarii or Kataphrons.
But I am a fan of the data sheets or what we’ve seen of them. My only question now is the invuln save. 5++ like an Onager? 6++ like a chicken? Nothing at all like a drill? The latter would make it the first admech codex unit besides Servitors to not have any invuln, so I feel it wouldn’t be fluffy or fitting (and servitors should really have a 6++ Bionics save anyway, given they’re also half metal).
The manipulus' cost isnt far off from what it should be, he brings a lot of utility to any list. The drill has no problem transporting Secutariis.
I expect that once the datasheet is out, well see the missing rules.
Wow I have to see the whole datasheet + pts cost but I'm massively disappointed. Why the hell is it T6 ? Why do the only thing the "Hover" part does is deleting the minus to hit ? Why TWO data-tethers ? Maybe it'll have an increased range.
Then the Disintegrator being a Heavy Support vehicle while being marketed as a "Fast-moving battle tank !" for ages. Yeah there's a weapon that kills a few hidden Guardsmen. The Ferrumite Cannon looks good though, like what an anti-tank gun should look like, not random d6 shots everywhere.
It'll probably be massively overcosted and have a 6++ tops. GW still don't know how to write rules for AdMech
problem with the manipulus is he popped up before the dominus got a price reduction. He was a middle-road hq at that time, but for some reason CA updates are never reflected in releases about 3ish months prior it feels.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Praise the Omnissiah
- 8k /// 
- 5k /// 
- 6k /// 
- 6k /// 
- 4k /// 
- 4k /// Cust - 3k 
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
