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Suzuteo wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
Eldar Fire Prisms get Grinding Advance. And -1 to hit at 12". T_T

Yeah. I am pretty much retiring after this weekend. If you put 1300 of 2000 points on the table that is admech, and the other guy has fire prisms, you lose. Period.

If this is going to be a thing, they need to give it to Crawlers or we're just out of luck as a shooting army. Infantry without transports, tanks with half the shots...

Yea. If this is a trend with releases going forward that we stay kinda at the mediocre-to-bad level, I might shelve or possibly sell my army. I love the hobby aspect, but I don't like getting steamrolled either and my LGS is on the heavy competitive end of the spectrum.

Fires needs to be a 2017 release but it won't be

gendoikari87 wrote:
Fires needs to be a 2017 release but it won't be

Correct. Confirmed as 2018 by FW on the Twitch feed yesterday. Very annoying. No firm dates for really anything. Not even "Q1" or anything. So much "next year" talk that it was a joke by the end of the stream.

I love GW and FW, but holy crap they can be frustrating.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Fires needs to be a 2017 release but it won't be

Correct. Confirmed as 2018 by FW on the Twitch feed yesterday. Very annoying. No firm dates for really anything. Not even "Q1" or anything. So much "next year" talk that it was a joke by the end of the stream.

I love GW and FW, but holy crap they can be frustrating.

Not seeing how Ciraxus fixes anything.

Secutarii would get peed on by the Fire Prisms Str6, -3, d1 profile that gets 12 shots if it goes slow.
The big resin robots and castellaxes tend to have 4+ BS or fall into the dreaded 3-4 wounds and T5 category. The mid range Fire Prism profile pees on those at 2d3 shots of Str9, -4, d3.
Also, the only things in Ciraxus that is going to increase mobility are the transports and the jetpack T5 guys.
But the transports are huge point sinks and we don't have 20 man blob squads to justify them
And the T5 guys will likely not get 'vehicle' levels of wounds and end up being 3 wounds like the Kataphrons.
If we are counting on Ciraxus, then we are really just hoping Forgeworld screws up and writes bonkers rules. Which I admit is a possibility.

Yeah, it's pretty frustrating. Currently my Admech list continues to dwindle to an "admech" counts-as list:

Cawl 250
4 Robots 440
Neutron onager 140
Neutron onager 140

Elysian commander, bolter 41
Elysian command squad, 4 plasma 56
Elysian special weapons, 3 plasma 51
Elysian special weapons, 3 plasma 51
Eversor assassin 70

Catachan commander, warlord, relic, bolter 31
Catachan command Russ battle tank, lascannon 209
10 Catachan infantry, 1 plasma 47
10 Catachan infantry, 1 plasma 47
10 Catachan infantry, 1 plasma 47
Sergeant Harker 50
Catachan Russ punisher tank, 3 heavy bolter 166
Catachan earthshaker battery 80
Catachan earthshaker battery 80

1996 points 8 command


Here's my Leman Russes WIP:

Wulfey wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Fires needs to be a 2017 release but it won't be

Correct. Confirmed as 2018 by FW on the Twitch feed yesterday. Very annoying. No firm dates for really anything. Not even "Q1" or anything. So much "next year" talk that it was a joke by the end of the stream.

I love GW and FW, but holy crap they can be frustrating.

Not seeing how Ciraxus fixes anything.

Secutarii would get peed on by the Fire Prisms Str6, -3, d1 profile that gets 12 shots if it goes slow.
The big resin robots and castellaxes tend to have 4+ BS or fall into the dreaded 3-4 wounds and T5 category. The mid range Fire Prism profile pees on those at 2d3 shots of Str9, -4, d3.
Also, the only things in Ciraxus that is going to increase mobility are the transports and the jetpack T5 guys.
But the transports are huge point sinks and we don't have 20 man blob squads to justify them
And the T5 guys will likely not get 'vehicle' levels of wounds and end up being 3 wounds like the Kataphrons.
If we are counting on Ciraxus, then we are really just hoping Forgeworld screws up and writes bonkers rules. Which I admit is a possibility.

Those stats will look nothing like they do in horus heresy. IIRC kastelans in 7th were 3 wounds each, so those big bots with 4 and 5 wounds will probably be more like 10 and 8

Secutarii would get peed on by the Fire Prisms Str6, -3, d1 profile that gets 12 shots if it goes slow.

i mean it's not like they're getting a 18 shot str 6 ap -2 weapon for 110 points.....

 ph34r wrote:
Yeah, it's pretty frustrating. Currently my Admech list continues to dwindle to an "admech" counts-as list:

Cawl 250
4 Robots 440
Neutron onager 140
Neutron onager 140

Elysian commander, bolter 41
Elysian command squad, 4 plasma 56
Elysian special weapons, 3 plasma 51
Elysian special weapons, 3 plasma 51
Eversor assassin 70

Catachan commander, warlord, relic, bolter 31
Catachan command Russ battle tank, lascannon 209
10 Catachan infantry, 1 plasma 47
10 Catachan infantry, 1 plasma 47
10 Catachan infantry, 1 plasma 47
Sergeant Harker 50
Catachan Russ punisher tank, 3 heavy bolter 166
Catachan earthshaker battery 80
Catachan earthshaker battery 80

1996 points 8 command


Here's my Leman Russes WIP:

Spoiler:

So I think its time to PM a mod to just merge this thread into the Astra thread.

Guard is superior to everything except cawl and bots, even dunecrawlers are outshined by doubletapping tanks

Have a feeling even Cawl/Bots wont be too hot much longer with the proliferation of all this -1 to be hit for armies

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

So I think its time to PM a mod to just merge this thread into the Astra thread.

Guard is superior to everything except cawl and bots, even dunecrawlers are outshined by doubletapping tanks

Have a feeling even Cawl/Bots wont be too hot much longer with the proliferation of all this -1 to be hit for armies

i'd say something snarky but i mean when you're right you're right.

Mechanicus. From the counts-as, we were born, and to the counts-as, we will return.

 ph34r wrote:
Mechanicus. From the counts-as, we were born, and to the counts-as, we will return.

20010 counts as grey knights


2017 counts as grey knights

gendoikari87 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Mechanicus. From the counts-as, we were born, and to the counts-as, we will return.

20010 counts as grey knights

2017 counts as grey knights

Love it!

unfortunately i have no pictures of my 2006 IG counts as mechanicus as you can tell between 2010 and 2017 i got much better at paintig

Alright, finished up painting my tourney list. I am still running celestine in place of the drop plasma elysians. I feel like a good opponent will screen out the drop plasma guys and deny me a good target. But celestine is guaranteed kills on things and a giant fire magnet. The elysians felt like free ITC mission points when I dropped them down. I get that they are point for point the most efficient damage in the game. But man are they insta dead the turn after they drop. Also, I think dragoons are also a very good unit for ITC since they are a hard 'unit' to kill and don't give up Big Game Hunter. Celestine with the geminae can face tank all kinds of overwatch and no one can resist shooting at her. But the Elysians ... if your opponent has access to -1 to be hit, then they really start to stink. Or if your opponent isn't tarded and brings a screen that puts your elysians more than 12" from those good tank targets ... urg. I feel like if I bring my Elysians, they will help me beat easy opponents that make basic mistakes, but won't help against good opponents. Also, I love my converted eversor assassins. But in ITC they are 1 character point that you are guaranteed to give up and they compete with dragoons. Eversors really are better at killing back field horrors, but my dragoons have the flexibility to threaten anything in melee with that Str8.

https://imgur.com/gallery/Vx9Zc






EDIT: I could turn celestine into 2x Elysian commanders and 2x plasmacide squads with no other substitutions. I will bring them just in case I change my mind some time tonight.

It’s funny because both the Eldar and IG threads are also whining that they’re not competitive and that their codexes are useless to them lol.

All the -1 to hit traits are a cop out if you ask me, way too powerful.

Octovol wrote:
It’s funny because both the Eldar and IG threads are also whining that they’re not competitive and that their codexes are useless to them lol.

All the -1 to hit traits are a cop out if you ask me, way too powerful.

The Eldar preview thread just took a massive turnaround now that we've seen some of the less bland changes that are being made. Peoples' primary complaint about the Eldar traits is that they're just not particularly fluffy or diverse. As for IG... the only legitimate complaint for them is that they're too good.

Admech is legitimately bad.

Octovol wrote:
It’s funny because both the Eldar and IG threads are also whining that they’re not competitive and that their codexes are useless to them lol.

All the -1 to hit traits are a cop out if you ask me, way too powerful.

Naw. It's generally a fair rule that helps encourage close combat, which the game severely lacked in prior editions. I think GW is putting out less unique rules in an effort to keep the game more balanced, too.

I'm going to be honest here, outside of the occasional new player asking for advice, this tactica thread is dead.

LexOdin9 wrote:
I'm going to be honest here, outside of the occasional new player asking for advice, this tactica thread is dead.

Well, with a codex so one-dimensional, there's really not a whole lot left to discuss. We know what the few viable options are, we know how they interact together, and we know that our options are generally going to be lacklustre. The only thing left to discuss is just how screwed Admech gets with each codex release, and just how further the faction is going to fade from relevance.

Until Fires of Cyraxis or Chapter Approved do something worthwhile (assuming either one of them even do that), we're mostly just a strategic dead end left to contemplate retirement to the shelf.

But at least Dragoons are legit.

The Admech codex isn't bad per say. Its just really disapointing.

I fully agree it has some serious flaws though. TPD is absurdly overpriced. Servitors are way overpriced. Breachers are just a tad too expensive and Destroyers either need a slight points reduction or a slight buff to survivability.

Skitarri vanguard need to be dropped to 8pts per model and they will be gold. Rangers I think are perfectly costed.Enginseer is 10 points too much. Either give him an Aura ability like +1 LD for 6" or drop him down to 42 pts. Right now he is primairly being used as a tax and really nothing else. And Christ why cant he take a plasma pistol!?!?

Infiltrators and Ruststalkers are slightly too expensive. I feel like the base points of the infiltrators should be 14 and rustsalkers 12 then add wargear. Infiltrators are good despite their expense. Ruststalkers look awesome but are hot garbage.

Electro priests are fine. Though I am disappointed in the disco sticks point increase. I understand why they did it.

Datasmith. Fine. Wish he could repair things other than robots.

Ironstriders are undercosted. Their effectiveness helps make up for the rest of our armys poor point values. Though to be honest, if they costed any more points I think I wouldn't take them and just take the Dunecawlers instead.

Robots. Expensive but good. No change needed imo.

Dunecrawler. Super undercosted. Primary unit in the codex, I think they made this thing so good and so excellent in points that the ENTIRE codex was written to sell this model and robots.

Dragoons. Overall fine. I'd like to see the Cognis Lazcannon dropped a few points.

In my opinion the units are meh overall, but the codex gives us many more options to do strange things or play in different ways which can allow you to radically change your army list. Maybe not super competitive, but it has options. Due to that, I don't think our codex is crap. But at the end of the year when the Handbook comes out with all the changes and adjustments for all factions/indexs. And if they STILL do not address the Admech overcost problems. I think its safe to say, GW has shelved the army and is focused on doing other things. At that point I fear we Admech players will just have to wait for 9th edition to get any real change.

 lash92 wrote:
First of all thanks for your input, I really appreciate your afford
Yeah you are right I'm not a tournament guy, I just want to habe a shot against my friends (so I am somewhere in between fluffy and waac)

So I wrote a concept for an list (about 2000 points) to know what I should buy, maybe you could take a look at it?

- 2 Tech-Priest Dominus
- 2 Enginseer
- 4 × 8 men vanguard squad
- Infiltrators
- 4x Dragoon
- 3 x onager dunecrawler

Alternatively I could swap out a dunecrawler and 2 Dragoons for a Datasmith and 3 Kastelens.

I don't know how many Infiltrators you wanted to use, but I have about 1500 pts when I calculate your list, so there's room for at least a small Kastelan Maniple. Didn't you want Rangers with Arquebuses too ? I wouldn't recommend too much Domini because they're fairly expensive in points, but their aura is welcome, you could have one staying near the Onagers/Kastelans and another advancing with the Vanguards to power them up with rerolls, especially good for plasma Vanguards to shoot in overcharge risk-free. I can write you a little list at 2000 pts tomorrow if you'd like, with two Battalions to have 9 CPs. In the meantime tell me what playstyle you'd like, which Forge-World you want to play and if you already have any AdMech models.

 Aaranis wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
First of all thanks for your input, I really appreciate your afford
Yeah you are right I'm not a tournament guy, I just want to habe a shot against my friends (so I am somewhere in between fluffy and waac)

So I wrote a concept for an list (about 2000 points) to know what I should buy, maybe you could take a look at it?

- 2 Tech-Priest Dominus
- 2 Enginseer
- 4 × 8 men vanguard squad
- Infiltrators
- 4x Dragoon
- 3 x onager dunecrawler

Alternatively I could swap out a dunecrawler and 2 Dragoons for a Datasmith and 3 Kastelens.

I don't know how many Infiltrators you wanted to use, but I have about 1500 pts when I calculate your list, so there's room for at least a small Kastelan Maniple. Didn't you want Rangers with Arquebuses too ? I wouldn't recommend too much Domini because they're fairly expensive in points, but their aura is welcome, you could have one staying near the Onagers/Kastelans and another advancing with the Vanguards to power them up with rerolls, especially good for plasma Vanguards to shoot in overcharge risk-free. I can write you a little list at 2000 pts tomorrow if you'd like, with two Battalions to have 9 CPs. In the meantime tell me what playstyle you'd like, which Forge-World you want to play and if you already have any AdMech models.

Forgot to mention the Ranger. Wanted to include two 5 men squads with 2 Arquebuses and an Omnispex each.

Sure I would like that, if you can find time for that
As for playstyle I would like to field an advancing gunline of Vanguard to grab objectives, support by my backfield castel of Dunecrawler and maybe robots.
And some Dragoons for melee action.

Do you think I would benefit more from Mars or from Stygies?
The -1 to hit is a really nice boost, but the reroll all misses from Cawl is also really tempting.
But if I play Mars wouldn't it be better to just run 5 man squads because of the missing -1? But how can I play objective based missions then?

@tsol
Kataphrons, Ruststalkers and servitors aren't slightly overpriced... Their cost needs to be cut in HALF. I'm not joking, I did math on most of these

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
@tsol
Kataphrons, Ruststalkers and servitors aren't slightly overpriced... Their cost needs to be cut in HALF. I'm not joking, I did math on most of these

not quite sure about half on destroyers 45-55 maybe. servitors need something more than just a point reduction. they need expanded unit selection I.e. larger units and more can take heavy weapons. Ruststalkers are horrible and infiltrators did NOT need that reduction in attacks

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
@tsol
Kataphrons, Ruststalkers and servitors aren't slightly overpriced... Their cost needs to be cut in HALF. I'm not joking, I did math on most of these

Yep. I always got the feeling that the WarConvo screwed us for 8th. The playtesters definitely overcosted us and now without any major price offset, we are not remotely competitive outside of being a niche soup build.

 ph34r wrote:

Here's my Leman Russes WIP:

Spoiler:

NOOO. WHY DO YOU TEMPT ME? I was also thinking about magnetizing Leman Russ bits to the side of my Crawlers and just using their rules. (It makes no sense why AdMech guns should have less range and power than a double-shooting Guard turret.)

That being said, does anyone have an old print or DKOK Leman Russ turret and can give me the dimensions? Given it fits one dude in the cupola, I THINK it might fit on the side with the proper mount, but I want to double check.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh actually, anyone have the dimensions for these Ryza pattern turrets?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vcg8qv3nees/SisoYG7p9TI/AAAAAAAADZg/8zc07j6LY1c/s1600/Ryzalr1.jpg

Suzuteo wrote:
NOOO. WHY DO YOU TEMPT ME? I was also thinking about magnetizing Leman Russ bits to the side of my Crawlers and just using their rules. (It makes no sense why AdMech guns should have less range and power than a double-shooting Guard turret.)

That being said, does anyone have an old print or DKOK Leman Russ turret and can give me the dimensions? Given it fits one dude in the cupola, I THINK it might fit on the side with the proper mount, but I want to double check.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh actually, anyone have the dimensions for these Ryza pattern turrets?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vcg8qv3nees/SisoYG7p9TI/AAAAAAAADZg/8zc07j6LY1c/s1600/Ryzalr1.jpg

As you can see from my picture, the Leman Russ Turret does not fit well. The one I have pictured is the current russ turret. I also tried the old style turret. The current one is too small, the old one is much too small.

In the foreground I have posted a Baneblade turret on the Crawler legs. That looks like a good size to me, to represent the high wounds and toughness 8.

Ah man. Okay. I think I will go back to thinking about how I can fit a Battle Cannon bit onto some Neutron Laser mount bits. (That or kitbash a non-GW turret.)

Suzuteo wrote:
Ah man. Okay. I think I will go back to thinking about how I can fit a Battle Cannon bit onto some Neutron Laser mount bits. (That or kitbash a non-GW turret.)

Yeah, that shouldn't be too hard. I'm going with the bane blade turret as a body/turret.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
@tsol
Kataphrons, Ruststalkers and servitors aren't slightly overpriced... Their cost needs to be cut in HALF. I'm not joking, I did math on most of these

not quite sure about half on destroyers 45-55 maybe. servitors need something more than just a point reduction. they need expanded unit selection I.e. larger units and more can take heavy weapons. Ruststalkers are horrible and infiltrators did NOT need that reduction in attacks

I’d like to see both kataphrons get double their current wounds before I consider them worth their points. I mean a destroyer with a culverin is 70 and 73 with a heavy grav, plus the phosphor blaster (which if you ask me should replace all phosphor serpenta and just get rid of that pos) they’re not expensive as an option, they’re only expensive because they can’t do their role of heavy ranged infantry well enough. An autocannon Ironstrider is 75 points, has double the wounds, more attacks and toughness, more movement, better shooting ability, a better save, better synergy with our strategms and comparable dmg output. ~5 points difference.

FYI dunecrawler points cost is absolutely fine. Leman russ, Falcon grav tanks and fire prisms are all now within 10-20 points of each other, ours being the cheapest of all of them.

*edited to fix my stat inaccuracies.

2x Heavy D6 S8 AP-2 D3 at 72" with BS4+, reroll shot volume and misses
One Heavy Bolter
T8 W12 Sv3+
162 points

Heavy D3 S10 AP-4 D6min3 at 48" with BS3+. reroll hits
Two Heavy Stubbers
T7 W11 Sv3+ 4++ reroll 1s
140 points

22 more points buys you more damage against anything with an invincible save or below T8. Basically, Crawlers used to be the best tank on the block, and now we're slightly above average--and only against other tanks T8 and above.

Ah well, at least we still have the best AA.