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 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Well, 50pts more and a comparatively effortless Slay The Warlord, but yes.

Just tuck him out of LoS if you see Snipers. Being a character, unless literally everything else near him is dead, they can't target him.

My experience for losing characters has been to close combat drops out the back of fast-moving flyers, or the flyers themselves if I try to hide him somewhere.

You got to make sure you don't leave room for infiltrators or flying units to get behind you easily.

Yes, you do, though that's easier said than done. Most of what I've experienced is flyers dicking around murdering things, until either I lose the objective war or have to move out, then the people inside the flyer drop out and ram headfirst into wherever the Warlord is and what's around him. After the flyer blenderizes it of course.

I usually drop flyers ASAP. Especially transports. Buffed Neutronagers do some hurt. As does the Icarus.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Well, 50pts more and a comparatively effortless Slay The Warlord, but yes.

Just tuck him out of LoS if you see Snipers. Being a character, unless literally everything else near him is dead, they can't target him.

My experience for losing characters has been to close combat drops out the back of fast-moving flyers, or the flyers themselves if I try to hide him somewhere.

You got to make sure you don't leave room for infiltrators or flying units to get behind you easily.

Yes, you do, though that's easier said than done. Most of what I've experienced is flyers dicking around murdering things, until either I lose the objective war or have to move out, then the people inside the flyer drop out and ram headfirst into wherever the Warlord is and what's around him. After the flyer blenderizes it of course.

I usually drop flyers ASAP. Especially transports. Buffed Neutronagers do some hurt. As does the Icarus.

Yes, if you can. Not all armies can, e.g. the_scotsman pointed out.

But we're off tangent; suffice to say the IG 5+/5+ is awesome and handy, but has the major flaw of more easily giving up Slay the Warlord than just bringing a Tech-Priest Dominus and giving the IG the Relic for 1 Cp. That way, you get 6+/6+ and 0/5+ everytime anything happens, without giving up slay the warlord so easily.

We are talking AdMech, not other armies. So not sure what the point there is about other armies.

And there is no major flaw, imo. The IG detachment gives you three 10-man squads for assault buffer, two characters that you can hide, and all for not much investment in points (240pt if you go for Lascannons).

The fretting about Slay the Warlord is just silly to me, given the utility the 5+/5+ offers our CP reliant army and the ease with which you can bury him in your army for safety.

Being able to comfortably Wrath for three turns can't be understated.

Now that chapter reduced our troops cost and hq seems more and more valid to field pure ad mech. Yet my super competitive list will have guard when allowed still for a better 5+/5+ relic trait even if i have to dug in my warlord. and ofc for los shooting and /or phsychers. Cant do nothing about that. Even when i use graia instead of Guard i gotta pay min 34 points tax since engonseers are trash and got no rooom in my army and ofc the troops infantry guard still better with orders etc. If able i use them.

Still wwont be extremely different with ad mech now if not the 1-2 basilisks and 1-2 pshychers.

and yes i sue the 6+/6+ techomartyr when i solo ad mech. definetly not autocadeus trash.

wont use lascannon cause their balistic suck and honestly i shoot better with ad mech. Guard provide only what i dont have . LOS somortar or basilisk mainly basilisk atm and ofc pshych. lasc spam etc i care not to play. if you like it play guard all the way.

You can literally hide your Company Commander behind Cawl's skirts. xD

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

But we're off tangent; suffice to say the IG 5+/5+ is awesome and handy, but has the major flaw of more easily giving up Slay the Warlord than just bringing a Tech-Priest Dominus and giving the IG the Relic for 1 Cp. That way, you get 6+/6+ and 0/5+ everytime anything happens, without giving up slay the warlord so easily.

You can’t do that. You can only choose relics from the army of your warlord.

If your army is led by anADEPTUS MECHANICUS Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following Arcana Mechanicus to an ADEPTUS MECHANICUS CHARACTER

Which army the free relic goes to is decided by who your warlord is, but you can use the stratagem to pay for a relic from any faction (so long as you have a detachment to unlock stratagems with, of course).

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Which army the free relic goes to is decided by who your warlord is, but you can use the stratagem to pay for a relic from any faction (so long as you have a detachment to unlock stratagems with, of course).

I would disagree, both in RAW and in RAI. RAW clearly states "extra" relics. You cannot have an "extra" Arcana Mechanicum relic if you never had one to begin with. RAI makes me doubt they want to allow you to spam multiple copies of what is essentially the same relic for each of your armies.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Which army the free relic goes to is decided by who your warlord is, but you can use the stratagem to pay for a relic from any faction (so long as you have a detachment to unlock stratagems with, of course).

I don't think that is right. The Strategems all say "Your army can have one extra relic from the <RELICS OF FACTION> for 1CP ..."

EXTRA and FROM sounds like the extra is in addition to a relic your already took from RELICS OF FACTION.

Have you seen a ruling on this anywhere? I am almost open to the idea that you can by off-warlord-faction relics for CP, but that extra implies extra to the one you already have.

And yeah, rules and intended I can't imagine that GW meant that I can buy 1 relic from several different codexes for CP. That seems way off from the relics-to-warlord-linkage rule.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Which army the free relic goes to is decided by who your warlord is, but you can use the stratagem to pay for a relic from any faction (so long as you have a detachment to unlock stratagems with, of course).

All this is covered in the Death Guard FAQ as a general answer to a question that used CSM and DG as the example.

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and
I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of
Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death
Guard Character?

A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to
Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the
appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard
Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

In this case, the Warlord is clearly a CSM character, but the DG stratagem was used to give a DG character a relic. The Warlord was not a determining factor in who got what.

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Which army the free relic goes to is decided by who your warlord is, but you can use the stratagem to pay for a relic from any faction (so long as you have a detachment to unlock stratagems with, of course).

All this is covered in the Death Guard FAQ as a general answer to a question that used CSM and DG as the example.

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and
I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of
Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death
Guard Character?

A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to
Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the
appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard
Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

In this case, the Warlord is clearly a CSM character, but the DG stratagem was used to give a DG character a relic. The Warlord was not a determining factor in who got what.

Okay then. Time to update my theory crafting. I will cite that to justify throwing in all kinds of silly relics using strategems. Might as well go for a full soup load.

Wait. Seriously?

So Monitor Malevolus + Kurov's Aquila + Adept of the Codex is a thing? (6+,5+/6+,5+) That can't be right...

Suzuteo wrote:
Wait. Seriously?

So Monitor Malevolus + Kurov's Aquila + Adept of the Codex is a thing? (6+,5+/6+,5+) That can't be right...

Basically.

Why anyone wouldn't take the Aquila if they have allied Guard is beyond me. That would be the first pre-game CP I spent.

Though I wouldn't be surprised to see the use of the stratagems that grant access to relics get FAQ's to be limited to 1 per army rather then per codex detachment. Otherwise you could have 3 detachments (from separate books) and only spend 2CP to get a relic in each. Normally that would be 3CP for a single codex army.

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
Wait. Seriously?

So Monitor Malevolus + Kurov's Aquila + Adept of the Codex is a thing? (6+,5+/6+,5+) That can't be right...

Basically.

Why anyone wouldn't take the Aquila if they have allied Guard is beyond me. That would be the first pre-game CP I spent.

Though I wouldn't be surprised to see the use of the stratagems that grant access to relics get FAQ's to be limited to 1 per army rather then per codex detachment. Otherwise you could have 3 detachments (from separate books) and only spend 2CP to get a relic in each. Normally that would be 3CP for a single codex army.

noice

Oops. Forgot Monitor is a Warlord trait and not a relic. Any other CP-recycling relics?

Suzuteo wrote:
Oops. Forgot Monitor is a Warlord trait and not a relic. Any other CP-recycling relics?

The Veritas Vitae from Blood Angels.

Interesting. Eagerly awaiting the amazing Cawl and friends CP juggling performers list

/grabs popcorn and waits for the math adepts ☺️

I don't like to play with words or abuse a rule to do what ? Broken trash. If you opp seems to use those kind of ruling go ahead I'm not gonna go to my community with this crap.

I like the game it's a hobby I want my army balanced and I use Robots cause all armies got some form of super combo unit etc. This talk is bad !!

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Poorly

What does this image mean, rvd?

Like... Breachers are 1,35 lasgun? What? Is that how many shots from that weapon it takes to kill them or something?

Me no understando.

Are Vindicators any good? That Linebreaker Bombardment looks pretty sick, but the 24" range gives me pause. (Seems like you can still use it after advancing though... unless it replaces a shooting attack?)

 Silentz wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Poorly

What does this image mean, rvd?

Like... Breachers are 1,35 lasgun? What? Is that how many shots from that weapon it takes to kill them or something?

Me no understando.

It's how much of x gun does it take to kill y unit. Divided by pts cost. So if I change 40 to 1 and 4 to 1, it would say how much shots it takes to kill one of each of those units. You can download the file in my signature and check it out for yourself

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Which army the free relic goes to is decided by who your warlord is, but you can use the stratagem to pay for a relic from any faction (so long as you have a detachment to unlock stratagems with, of course).

All this is covered in the Death Guard FAQ as a general answer to a question that used CSM and DG as the example.

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and
I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of
Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death
Guard Character?

A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to
Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the
appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard
Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

In this case, the Warlord is clearly a CSM character, but the DG stratagem was used to give a DG character a relic. The Warlord was not a determining factor in who got what.

No. Just no. What you're basically saying is that the rules in the codex for assigning a relic to a model are ignored when using a strategm of the same codex because the strategm itself doesnt say you explicitly have to follow the rules in the codex.

This kind of shenanegans is why the tournament going elite are so frowned upon and why your opinions and values on matters are oftentimes not respected.

There is no way in hell i would allow that ruling in any game i participate in. Doesn't matter what your interpretation of the ruling is, it's not RAW and It is 100% not intended and you are 100% taking advantage of the wording of the strategm not repeating the wording in the codex.

 Silentz wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Poorly

What does this image mean, rvd?

Like... Breachers are 1,35 lasgun? What? Is that how many shots from that weapon it takes to kill them or something?

Me no understando.

I believe it's meant to be "durability per point spent."

Obviously a 40 point breacher will take WAYYYYYYY more lasguns to kill than a 4-point guardsmen, but 10 guardsmen need to die before the one breacher is worth it, and the graph shows its almost as points efficient to unload lasguns into the breacher as it is to shoot them at the guardsmen.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Octovol wrote:

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Which army the free relic goes to is decided by who your warlord is, but you can use the stratagem to pay for a relic from any faction (so long as you have a detachment to unlock stratagems with, of course).

All this is covered in the Death Guard FAQ as a general answer to a question that used CSM and DG as the example.

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and
I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of
Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death
Guard Character?

A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to
Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the
appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard
Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

In this case, the Warlord is clearly a CSM character, but the DG stratagem was used to give a DG character a relic. The Warlord was not a determining factor in who got what.

No. Just no. What you're basically saying is that the rules in the codex for assigning a relic to a model are ignored when using a strategm of the same codex because the strategm itself doesnt say you explicitly have to follow the rules in the codex.

This kind of shenanegans is why the tournament going elite are so frowned upon and why your opinions and values on matters are oftentimes not respected.

There is no way in hell i would allow that ruling in any game i participate in. Doesn't matter what your interpretation of the ruling is, it's not RAW and It is 100% not intended and you are 100% taking advantage of the wording of the strategm not repeating the wording in the codex.

I’m confused – it seems clear to me, that RAW (and cleared RAI due to the FAQ) the stratagem for taking extra relics follows a different set of rules to the free relic you get for your Warlords detachment. As it is also cleared stated in the FAQ, I don’t see how this is “shenanigans”.

The term “extra” means, additional – so, by using the stratagem for an Admech detachment, I would be allowed to include an additional admech relic in my battleforged army. It doesn’t matter if my Warlord detachment is Space Marines, as the faction taking the relic and using the stratagem is Admech. Without the stratagem, the Admech wouldn’t usually be able to take a relic, so the “extra” turns it from 0 relics to 1 relic.

Don’t confuse stratagems with the requirements for the free relic.

Now, does it potentially lead to some stupid combinations? Yes, of course it does, just like numerous other things in 40k does, but I’m failing to understand what is driving such a massively hostile response from you.

Raw and Rai are in agreement seems clear move on

Octovol wrote:

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Which army the free relic goes to is decided by who your warlord is, but you can use the stratagem to pay for a relic from any faction (so long as you have a detachment to unlock stratagems with, of course).

All this is covered in the Death Guard FAQ as a general answer to a question that used CSM and DG as the example.

Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and
I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of
Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death
Guard Character?

A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to
Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the
appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard
Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.

In this case, the Warlord is clearly a CSM character, but the DG stratagem was used to give a DG character a relic. The Warlord was not a determining factor in who got what.

No. Just no. What you're basically saying is that the rules in the codex for assigning a relic to a model are ignored when using a strategm of the same codex because the strategm itself doesnt say you explicitly have to follow the rules in the codex.

This kind of shenanegans is why the tournament going elite are so frowned upon and why your opinions and values on matters are oftentimes not respected.

There is no way in hell i would allow that ruling in any game i participate in. Doesn't matter what your interpretation of the ruling is, it's not RAW and It is 100% not intended and you are 100% taking advantage of the wording of the strategm not repeating the wording in the codex.

I didn't write the FAQ, GW did.

And its explicit. Its asks "can you do this" and their response is an emphatic "yes". I don't know how you get it being "unintended" when its a straight forward question with a crystal clear answer.

Its pointless to come after me for it like I had something to do with it. I'd also refrain on assuming that because I copy and pasted a GW FAQ that I am some kind of "tournament elite" who's opinion is to be frowned upon.

Should we just roll this thread into the guard thread at this point? Last 2 pages has basically been IG tactica.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Should we just roll this thread into the guard thread at this point? Last 2 pages has basically been IG tactica.

Naw, we need a place to complain about how long Fires is taking to release and inevitably about how awful Fires is and by then it'll just get locked.

I hate to say it but I want to play mechanicus (see my post about my 30k army!) but with so few unit options I just can't get around the 40k list.

I look at it and I'm like "These look awesome! But... there's just not enough stuff that inspires me."

Like I feel inspired by the Battle Servitors, but there's not really any way in which they're better / more synergetic than Skitarii or Robots or Onagers. I like the Robots, but they seem so mono-dimensional (by design) compared to their 30k counterparts. I think the Onager is pretty neat, but the vehicle just doesn't impress me the way a Leman Russ does; it's "neato thing" is that it has a 5++. Compared to last edition, when its neato thing was that it could have a Dreadnought CCW as well as Russ-ish firepower... well, I'm not impressed, really.

That sort of thing.

Have faith, fires will have the vorax and they’ll be more awesome than kastellans mixed with goondozer and the thanatar will make neutronagers look like pea shooters