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It's also worth noting that as -1 at 12"+ traits become more and more common, long ranged plasma weaponry without adequate close range delivery or mobility becomes less and less desirable.

 Fafnir wrote:
It's also worth noting that as -1 at 12"+ traits become more and more common, long ranged plasma weaponry without adequate close range delivery or mobility becomes less and less desirable.

I think it's already common enough that some lists are starting to shift in response. Lascannons are always in fashion anyway.

Incognito15 wrote:
Curious on why one blob of kastellans when you can just tie them up with rhinos. Then your falling back and doing nothing.

The shooting from kataphrons is impressive i find. What do you usually have in its place?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
When an Eldar player starts talking AdMech.

Deep Striking Robots!

@Incognito15

Kataphron anything are pretty awful choices. Why are the Robots in units of two? That is some pre-Index stuff there. You want a fat single unit to max out Wrath of Mars with.

Why 8-man dual Plasma and not 10-man triple? Might as well go overboard if you aren't going bare bones. Also guessing those are Neutronagers, which are always useful. Why a TPD in the second detachment? Wasted points really.

All around the list feels very casual, which is fine. I wouldn't take it to a tourney though - at least not a high-end event with any amount of WAAC players (which I tend to see here in NC).

I fail to see how in your meta your opponents dont have a way to deal with a unit with no cc but a lot of shooting.

Curious why people are anti destroyers. I get they are fragile but for they are awesome shooting.

And don't say take Astra Militarum. Any joe blow knows that cadian infantry makes their army that much better. Your not a tourney player because you know this, it's common knowledge. There is not one army for imperium that does not benefit from Astra Militarum.

You do one big unit of Kastellans because Wrath of Mars is once per turn and can only be used on one unit. So you go for broke. If you are getting tied up with a Rhino, you are a very bad player.

And Kataphron firepower isn't the issue - their complete lack of mobility, durability, BS and cost make them lackluster.

Also, saying "take Astra Militarum" is common knowledge. Duh. That is why it gets said though when a mediocre or lackluster list is posted, because that is what AdMech needs now to be competitive. We need fodder and as CP hogs, we need the recycling. Posting lists without it should elicit a "take Astra Militarum" response, because that is the best competitive advice.

For fun lists, just run whatever.

What to run instead of kataphrons? Skitarii. All day every day. Any troops slots in an admech detachment should be skitarii. with the points buffs from CA I really have been loving them, they're cheap, they're cheerful, they screen, they go get objectives.

I'm most likely biased towards liking them more because I play non-mars (I know it gimps me a bit on average but god DAMN is robo-blob the most boring thing in the universe, it's like showing up to 40k day and then just eating a whole sleeve of saltines with no water) but my pure admech lists are now running 40-50 skitarii and they frequently do the actual winning of the game through scoring, alongside my big blob o' goons. The games usually end with just my onager+TPD+Dakkastelan gunline alive, but all the scoring I do during the game is generally all my skitarii.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/734946.page

Kastellans and onagers up on ebay. Keeping my tpd and skitarii in case fires is half decent

I am marking this down now: forgeworld will not be for plastic 40k anymore. Forgeworld will be for the 7.1th edition horus heresy stuff they put out. Plastic GW does not want Resin taking over their tournaments. New GW management is not happy with resin because shop buyers can't buy it. New GW takes the tournament scene seriously because tournament players are the real addicts that buy everything and keep them in business. New GW does not want the old style of resin nonsense and non-GW chinaforge crap dominating tournaments. Everything i just said are a series of facts that I want you to consider for my next assertion:

Fire of Ciraxus will not be for 8th edition 40k. Resin mechanicum will not be allowed in GW's new plastic tournament future. If you want to run resin mechanicum, play horus heresy.

When has FW dominated tournaments?

Wulfey wrote:
I am marking this down now: forgeworld will not be for plastic 40k anymore. Forgeworld will be for the 7.1th edition horus heresy stuff they put out. Plastic GW does not want Resin taking over their tournaments. New GW management is not happy with resin because shop buyers can't buy it. New GW takes the tournament scene seriously because tournament players are the real addicts that buy everything and keep them in business. New GW does not want the old style of resin nonsense and non-GW chinaforge crap dominating tournaments. Everything i just said are a series of facts that I want you to consider for my next assertion:

Fire of Ciraxus will not be for 8th edition 40k. Resin mechanicum will not be allowed in GW's new plastic tournament future. If you want to run resin mechanicum, play horus heresy.

What about finecast? I mean most of CWE is finecast.... there is no plastic there

Wulfey wrote:
I am marking this down now: forgeworld will not be for plastic 40k anymore. Forgeworld will be for the 7.1th edition horus heresy stuff they put out. Plastic GW does not want Resin taking over their tournaments. New GW management is not happy with resin because shop buyers can't buy it. New GW takes the tournament scene seriously because tournament players are the real addicts that buy everything and keep them in business. New GW does not want the old style of resin nonsense and non-GW chinaforge crap dominating tournaments. Everything i just said are a series of facts that I want you to consider for my next assertion:

Fire of Ciraxus will not be for 8th edition 40k. Resin mechanicum will not be allowed in GW's new plastic tournament future. If you want to run resin mechanicum, play horus heresy.

"Facts"

 Fafnir wrote:
When has FW dominated tournaments?

LVO 2017, Brent Perkins list was 50% chinaforge forgeworld artillery

New GW doesn't want that anymore

Check out chapter approved point cost changes

 Fafnir wrote:
When has FW dominated tournaments?

Well, a few weeks ago, since Malefic Lords are FW...

Suzuteo wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
When has FW dominated tournaments?

Well, a few weeks ago, since Malefic Lords are FW...

Don't forget Earthshakers and Elysian Drop Troops for the other top tier army.

Chapter approved makes GW's intent pretty clear: plastic 40k is competitive 40k, stop running resin in our tournaments. They out and out double the points cost of the giant resin centerpieces in competitive play. GW doesn't want resin to be so dominant. GW gets that the tournament scene meta influences what models get bought and sought after down the line. When you lose at 40k, you think of what models you should have bought and brought instead. The lesser players emulate the great ones, and GW doesn't want resin running the show anymore.

Thus, Fires of Ciraxus is not going to provide anything for the competitive player.

Yeah. Earthshaker Batteries got hit way too hard. Though I am not sure if forcing us to convert Basilisks is the solution. (These things were discontinued in what? 2013?)

Wulfey wrote:
Chapter approved makes GW's intent pretty clear: plastic 40k is competitive 40k, stop running resin in our tournaments. They out and out double the points cost of the giant resin centerpieces in competitive play. GW doesn't want resin to be so dominant. GW gets that the tournament scene meta influences what models get bought and sought after down the line. When you lose at 40k, you think of what models you should have bought and brought instead. The lesser players emulate the great ones, and GW doesn't want resin running the show anymore.

Thus, Fires of Ciraxus is not going to provide anything for the competitive player.

...But the Fire Raptor went down by 60 points and will certainly be a lynchpin model for both SM and CSM.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
When has FW dominated tournaments?

Well, a few weeks ago, since Malefic Lords are FW...

Don't forget Earthshakers and Elysian Drop Troops for the other top tier army.

At the same time Ynnari, Mortars, Brimstones, Conscripts, and Primarch Spam were all things. Forgeworld managed to get a few top tier units in, but they don't define the entire meta in ways some players seem to think they have.

Wulfey wrote:
Chapter approved makes GW's intent pretty clear: plastic 40k is competitive 40k, stop running resin in our tournaments. They out and out double the points cost of the giant resin centerpieces in competitive play. GW doesn't want resin to be so dominant. GW gets that the tournament scene meta influences what models get bought and sought after down the line. When you lose at 40k, you think of what models you should have bought and brought instead. The lesser players emulate the great ones, and GW doesn't want resin running the show anymore.

Thus, Fires of Ciraxus is not going to provide anything for the competitive player.

The why did Corsairs get cheaper?

Edit: just giving you a hard time. lol

 Fafnir wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
When has FW dominated tournaments?

Well, a few weeks ago, since Malefic Lords are FW...

Don't forget Earthshakers and Elysian Drop Troops for the other top tier army.

At the same time Ynnari, Mortars, Brimstones, Conscripts, and Primarch Spam were all things. Forgeworld managed to get a few top tier units in, but they don't define the entire meta in ways some players seem to think they have.

Ynnari and Primarchs are essentially plastic specials, so of course they would be OP.

Mortars were a thing because Brimstones and Conscripts were a thing. Brimstones and Conscripts were a thing because Malefic Lords, Earthshakers/Renegade Artillery, and Elysians were a thing.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Chapter approved makes GW's intent pretty clear: plastic 40k is competitive 40k, stop running resin in our tournaments. They out and out double the points cost of the giant resin centerpieces in competitive play. GW doesn't want resin to be so dominant. GW gets that the tournament scene meta influences what models get bought and sought after down the line. When you lose at 40k, you think of what models you should have bought and brought instead. The lesser players emulate the great ones, and GW doesn't want resin running the show anymore.

Thus, Fires of Ciraxus is not going to provide anything for the competitive player.

...But the Fire Raptor went down by 60 points and will certainly be a lynchpin model for both SM and CSM.

I have a fire raptor. I love that model. It has never seen the tabletop because i don't think it has a place in a competitive enough list in a circumstance where it goes second. They are good for their points in terms of firepower per point, especially with roboute. But they are easy targets if you have a counter for fliers. Every shot at them is always a good shot to take. And the only defenses they have after the Azrael nerf are darkshrouds and the -1 from tigerius. And those defenses don't count against dark reapers. So I get that they are good for their points, as are sicaran venators. But those also happen to be top selling forgeworld models. Everything else that was good that they don't really sell (infernal lords, greater chaos spawn, earthshaker batteries) got nerfed hard. And all the super stuff (taunar, warhounds, orcas, thunderhawks) also got nerfed hard. The exceptions here prove the rule: GW doesn't want forgeworld dominating tournaments. And Fire raptor / sicaran lists are not going to take any tournaments. THey don't work in spam lists. One of them can provide a good for its point shooting platform in a codex space marines list. But codex space marines lists are not taking any tournaments and a 50-60 point cheaper shooting platform isn't going to put codex space marines into top tier.

Yeah, this may be the single most baseless speculation I've ever seen. Fires will almost certainly be for 8th, because T'au aren't getting ported to Horus Hersey and we know it involves them still as part of the wait is for the T'au codex to drop pre fires, so FW can make everything work with it.

Some of FW point adjustments are over reactions, as are some GW point adjustments (conscripts for example have been savaged somewhat). It happens, and FW balance has clearly been more hit and miss this edition. So that's not unexpected.

SilverAlien wrote:
Fires will almost certainly be for 8th, because T'au aren't getting ported to Horus Hersey and we know it involves them still as part of the wait is for the T'au codex to drop pre fires, so FW can make everything work with it.

Watch. Fires will be accompanied by a Horus Heresy book is about the Tau time-traveling to the 31st millenium. They then end up introducing Ephemerals to themselves in a bizarre Grandfather paradox.

SilverAlien wrote:
Yeah, this may be the single most baseless speculation I've ever seen. Fires will almost certainly be for 8th, because T'au aren't getting ported to Horus Hersey and we know it involves them still as part of the wait is for the T'au codex to drop pre fires, so FW can make everything work with it.

Some of FW point adjustments are over reactions, as are some GW point adjustments (conscripts for example have been savaged somewhat). It happens, and FW balance has clearly been more hit and miss this edition. So that's not unexpected.

not to mention that the other reason we're waiting for fires is that it IS being updated from 7th to 8th.

I think what he means is that way may well get some cool stuff in Fires, but he believes it being FW will be intentionally pointed out of being competitive for tournaments.

Octovol wrote:
I think what he means is that way may well get some cool stuff in Fires, but he believes it being FW will be intentionally pointed out of being competitive for tournaments.

Yes. There we go. GW understands that the major tournaments are the only big buzz events they have. GW wants those tournaments to feature GW models/products that plebs can buy (i.e., no more chinaforge tourney winners). Fires isn't going to provide some out of whack buff to resin admech that puts it at the top tier. And if for some reason it did, it would be quickly nerfed like they did with chapter approved.

However, I could see a few good things coming out of fires. A Skitarii Prime HQ like they had in the burning of prospero resin book would be amazing. Some 8th ed rules at all for peltasts/hoplites would make me much less bitter about buying those kits.

Simply put wulfey you're wrong. If GW sees tournaments as the only viable sales avenue they aren't going to shut down forgeworld out of that market. that's kicking yourself in the balls. Much better to let forgeworld go defunct or strictly HH/7ed.

so either you're wrong about GW focusing solely on tournaments, or wrong about forgeworld. Pick one. because they aren't going to sabatage one of their own releases. at least not intentionally, like the admech codex.

gendoikari87 wrote:
because they aren't going to sabatage one of their own releases. at least not intentionally, like the admech codex.

I like how you make an assertion and then immediately contradict it. Anyhow, there is a ton of stuff they release that doesn't make it to the tournament table. For example, a lot of Primaris stuff is awful, and they're gone full tilt at that for the past half-year.

Suzuteo wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
because they aren't going to sabatage one of their own releases. at least not intentionally, like the admech codex.

I like how you make an assertion and then immediately contradict it. Anyhow, there is a ton of stuff they release that doesn't make it to the tournament table. For example, a lot of Primaris stuff is awful, and they're gone full tilt at that for the past half-year.

I'm not the one contradicting myself, wolfboy did.

also as for primaris, don't know if you caught this. GW dropped their points in Chapter approved. Name of the game is balance. they want everything to sell so it all has to be equal. making that so takes time. and Oh, don't know if you caught this is warhammer community, GW released their plan to bi annually balance armies specifically for this purpose.

I caught the point changes. They're still not good. Elite infantry don't really have a strong role to play due to how powerful anti-infantry weapons are. You're investing in durability when it's much more worthwhile to invest in more damage output. >_>

Name of the game is repeat sales. They have essentially convinced everyone to spend $35 every 6 months for what are essentially errata.

that's because GW's going for incremental balancing. they don't want to over/under nerf anything in one go. they're literally seeing what gets used at tournaments nerfing the things that get spammed and buffing the things that don't get used, I.E. Don't sell.

gendoikari87 wrote:
that's because GW's going for incremental balancing. they don't want to over/under nerf anything in one go. they're literally seeing what gets used at tournaments nerfing the things that get spammed and buffing the things that don't get used, I.E. Don't sell.

We must not be reading the same Chapter Approved then.