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Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





NC

 kastelen wrote:


Why?
He's difficult to kill, has some of the best weapons in the game and will almost always be behind your artillery line. Giving more units rerolls is always good.


He is not particularly difficult to kill, honestly. And he is pretty mediocre in combat. And only has a 5++. All he is good for is the re-roll, really. He really should be about 200pt or have a better save.

   
Made in de
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





Ravemastaj wrote:


Except you've simply compared 440pts to 110. Also, with everyone important getting -1 to hit after 12 inches, the close range nature of infiltrators becomes more of a boon than a liability. Think of it this way:

An eldar tank managed to survive your Laser Onagers, and only has a few wounds left. You infiltrated your dudes within 12 inches of the vehicle, and within 9 inches of one of his screening forces. If you managed to find a decent spot for 10 infiltrators, it gives you the opportunity to essentially Melta a tank and get locked in close combat with someone else. With 550pts of infiltrators, you can have one "melta" squad of 10, and 3 more 5 man squads to guarantee at least one charge goes off. Against eldar T3 and invul saves, the amount of damage you can put out at Str6 and taser goads is phenomenal. It also locks up their annoying infantry combos (characters turning their -3ap dakka into -4ap dakka is murder against any allied vehicles - their whole ARMY is a Wrath of Mars in that respect).

Other than that, I really just don't want to play Dakkabots if that's all we have. -1 to hit against all targets makes it virtually useless, and getting within 12in simply gets them charged by Tyranids, infantry, anybody. All they can do in this meta is sit in the back and miss with Cawl until he gets sniped out by mortal wounds. Then they just sit there doing nothing. It's pathetic.


I'm also not a fan of the Cawl + Dakkabots so I kind of like the idea
I don't know how the rest of your force is looking but maybe you could just take the 10 man squad for the Wrath of Mars and back it up by some assassins (maybe Eversors?) since they are much more likely to make the charge, also make mincemeat of screens and are quite durable.

If you wonder how to include them:
Just take a Vanguard led by a psyker / inquisitor or Greyfax and add those assassins. (You could even add your infiltrator squad here if you want to main other forgeworld)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 kastelen wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
 kastelen wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:

I did the math awhile back. Cawl is less efficient than TDP at 1000 points if we're just comparing the effect of the aura on average dice outcomes. You need roughly 700-800 points of artillery to make him worthwhile.
then how is he ever useful? Or was before that range buff he got in the dex. That’s a lot to fit in 6”


It's 9" with the warlord trait which is what you're probably taking

Nobody should ever be making Cawl their Warlord...


Why?
He's difficult to kill, has some of the best weapons in the game and will almost always be behind your artillery line. Giving more units rerolls is always good.

1) The Mars Warlord trait sucks.
2) You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. Cawl is a valuable force multiplier. Once he is gone, your Dakkabot line is much less powerful.
3) You want to be able to throw your Cawl into your enemy's CC in the event of an emergency.

And yeah, nothing is invulnerable in 8E like in 7E. I have Peltasts gathering dust. That Cawlstar was obscene.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/22 20:46:51


 
   
Made in lt
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Mars' Warlord trait doesn't suck, lol. It's one of the best we have actually(And sadly?)

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Mars' Warlord trait doesn't suck, lol. It's one of the best we have actually(And sadly?)

It does. But you're not wrong on the second point. In any case, the Guard CP recycling and our own CP recycling traits are way better.
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




Mars Warlord Trait seems alright to me and I've yet to have Cawl die in the small handful of games I've used him in. 9" allows for him to give his great re-roll to a couple of squads of transuranic arquebus Rangers at the top of a ruin as well as more spread out Dunecrawlers and Kastellan Robots, if a Battalion is what you're doing with your Mars contingent.
   
Made in jp
Fresh-Faced New User




 lash92 wrote:
Ravemastaj wrote:


Except you've simply compared 440pts to 110. Also, with everyone important getting -1 to hit after 12 inches, the close range nature of infiltrators becomes more of a boon than a liability. Think of it this way:

An eldar tank managed to survive your Laser Onagers, and only has a few wounds left. You infiltrated your dudes within 12 inches of the vehicle, and within 9 inches of one of his screening forces. If you managed to find a decent spot for 10 infiltrators, it gives you the opportunity to essentially Melta a tank and get locked in close combat with someone else. With 550pts of infiltrators, you can have one "melta" squad of 10, and 3 more 5 man squads to guarantee at least one charge goes off. Against eldar T3 and invul saves, the amount of damage you can put out at Str6 and taser goads is phenomenal. It also locks up their annoying infantry combos (characters turning their -3ap dakka into -4ap dakka is murder against any allied vehicles - their whole ARMY is a Wrath of Mars in that respect).

Other than that, I really just don't want to play Dakkabots if that's all we have. -1 to hit against all targets makes it virtually useless, and getting within 12in simply gets them charged by Tyranids, infantry, anybody. All they can do in this meta is sit in the back and miss with Cawl until he gets sniped out by mortal wounds. Then they just sit there doing nothing. It's pathetic.


I'm also not a fan of the Cawl + Dakkabots so I kind of like the idea
I don't know how the rest of your force is looking but maybe you could just take the 10 man squad for the Wrath of Mars and back it up by some assassins (maybe Eversors?) since they are much more likely to make the charge, also make mincemeat of screens and are quite durable.

If you wonder how to include them:
Just take a Vanguard led by a psyker / inquisitor or Greyfax and add those assassins. (You could even add your infiltrator squad here if you want to main other forgeworld)


Just tried it out. The 10 man squad of Infiltrators managed to kill an 8 wound demon in a single round of shooting with Wrath of Mars (they did exactly 8 wounds on their 50 dice). They took up a fuckton of board space, though, and I couldn't put them on the enemy side of the table due to positioning. If only I had wiped out his preds on turn 2 so I could be in better spots on round 3...Laser Crawlers, why do you betray me so!

One of the 5 man squads that COULD fit in the back got wiped out by Eldar interceptor shenannigans, so that was something. The other two couldn't deploy in the back lines by turn 3, so they just ended up shredding some infantry and clearing the middle objective of most enemies. For context, it was a 2vs2 game with 2000 points a player, and 4000 points a side. Here was my list (it was soup for command points):

Spoiler:

Battalion 1:
2 Primaris Psykers
3 Infantry squads, flat and empty

Battalion 2:
2 Primaris Psykers
3 Infantry squads, flat and empty
1 Icarus Crawler

Total, 575 points.

Battalionx1 (Warlord: Malevolent)

1xTPD w/Eradication Ray and Macrostubber
2xEnginseer

3x5 Rangers, one plasma rifle total

3xLaser Crawlers

1x10 Infiltrators
3x5 Infiltrators

1xBunker

Total, 1410pts

Altogether, 1985pts


I could've managed points better, but I was in kind of a rush and didn't care about the last couple points. It wouldn't have done much, anyway - most of my skitarii infantry sat on objectives or got blown away. I had more luck moving up my soon-to-be skitarii Guardsmen, though. I mean, they still died, but they moved more.

Side note, bunkers are GREAT for shortening the number of drops you have. Throw all your characters in one and BAM, you just dropped all those extra bodies instantly. Primaris psykers are also surprisingly angry old men in a fight phase, too. 3 attacks each for 50 pts a pop is nothing to sneeze at!

 ChargerIIC wrote:


A bolter fires and a Necron succumbs. His corpse rises up as a poxwalker much to the horror of his comrades. Then, to everyone's surprise his corpse rises again as a fully functionality necron. The necron and the poxwalker stare at each other, both wondering which of them is the clone.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




xlDuke wrote:
Mars Warlord Trait seems alright to me and I've yet to have Cawl die in the small handful of games I've used him in. 9" allows for him to give his great re-roll to a couple of squads of transuranic arquebus Rangers at the top of a ruin as well as more spread out Dunecrawlers and Kastellan Robots, if a Battalion is what you're doing with your Mars contingent.

Are you winning all of these games? You might be doing something wrong if your Cawl never dies. That or your opponents don't know what to do. I mean, does nobody charge your gun line? Do you never use Cawl in CC?
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




Suzuteo wrote:
xlDuke wrote:
Mars Warlord Trait seems alright to me and I've yet to have Cawl die in the small handful of games I've used him in. 9" allows for him to give his great re-roll to a couple of squads of transuranic arquebus Rangers at the top of a ruin as well as more spread out Dunecrawlers and Kastellan Robots, if a Battalion is what you're doing with your Mars contingent.

Are you winning all of these games? You might be doing something wrong if your Cawl never dies. That or your opponents don't know what to do. I mean, does nobody charge your gun line? Do you never use Cawl in CC?

As I said I've only played a few games with Cawl but if I remember correctly I won most of them, maybe lost one. I've mostly been using my Orks so far in 8th and do not claim to be a top class player, nor do I play in tournaments and was just posting my thoughts on the subject. I use units of Skitarii and Dragoons to screen my heavy firepower from early game charges and have had enough luck to not have my Dunecrawlers or Robots in any combats I've not wanted them in (used Dunecrawlers to tie up units late-game if necessary, on a couple of occasions). I've used Cawl in combat in two games to clear out partially weakened units that have made their way to my side of the board or have been on a nearby objective in the latter turns of the game. Other than that, he's not been needed as my screens and firepower have taken their toll from my opponents.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well, if you were to play against your Orks, there's a good chance you would need to turn that Cawl sideways and body block for your Kastelans.
   
Made in de
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





So what´s the general opinion on Electro Priest?

1) How do you use them?

2) Which forgeworld do you use? Is Lucius viable for them?

3) Which version?

4) Unit size?
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




1) deep striking in with the appropriate forgeworld or as a counter charge threat

2) Lucius or Stygies

3) the one that gives you the 3 up invulnerable if you wipe out a unit

4) you really need at least 10 (in my opinion) - but its a lot of money for a unit that will be mostly shot to death and rarely get into combat, or make their cost back
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





NC

Brass eye wrote:
1) deep striking in with the appropriate forgeworld or as a counter charge threat

2) Lucius or Stygies

3) the one that gives you the 3 up invulnerable if you wipe out a unit

4) you really need at least 10 (in my opinion) - but its a lot of money for a unit that will be mostly shot to death and rarely get into combat, or make their cost back


Yep. All this. Fulgurites are pretty great, when they actually do their thing. The issue being you have to bring big units and build around their strategy (Deep Strike or Infiltrate).

   
Made in de
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





Thanks first of all.
Since I´m using Lucius anyways I don´t need to worry about deepstriking options.
But a charge from deepstrike isn´t that likely, so I should bring at least a 10 man unit? (more = better?)
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





NC

 lash92 wrote:
Thanks first of all.
Since I´m using Lucius anyways I don´t need to worry about deepstriking options.
But a charge from deepstrike isn´t that likely, so I should bring at least a 10 man unit? (more = better?)


Honestly, like 15-20 would be ideal, imo. That way, you can eat some firepower and not lose everyone (you probably still will though). It is a major risk and I am not sure it is worth it for competitive games. Fun games? Sure, go for it.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Everything about electropriests is frustrating.

Want real dakka? Take mars shootPriests ... but then you can't get them up the board.

Want safety? Take LUCIUS and deepstrike them ... but then you won't get rerolls and rely on rolling a 9 on a charge (only like 45% assuming you use a CP reroll).

Want it all? Take STYGIES, but then if you go second all your guys die if you put them up the board. And you usually get second.

Want rerolls to hit in melee? NOPE! The Omniscient mask only affect SKITARII, not CULT MECH.

Want some kind of reroll to wound mechanic in melee like every other viable melee unit in the game? LOLNO GTFO unless you take the gimp forgeworld that is so bad no one even bothers theorycrafting it.

Want to have something to throw in against BOYS or GAUNT herds? Absolutely not! Staff priests only have 2 attacks and usually only land 1 wound after hit/wound rolls.

Staff priests cost like an intercessor ... but are as tough as a 2xGuardsmen (I forgot the 5+FNP) against basic bolter fire. If they were 10 points your opponent could still play around them by shooting them with str4, ap0 shots.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/28 05:28:46


 
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





Hi folks.

Thought I’d mix it up a bit.

Anyone have a favourite 500 point cheeky Admech list or a solid 1k one?

Haven’t heard to much on the subject. Be curious to know what/if at all you folks run. (Assuming you don’t always play 2k+)?
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





NC

Wulfey wrote:
Everything about electropriests is frustrating.

Want real dakka? Take mars shootPriests ... but then you can't get them up the board.

Want safety? Take LUCIUS and deepstrike them ... but then you won't get rerolls and rely on rolling a 9 on a charge (only like 45% assuming you use a CP reroll).

Want it all? Take STYGIES, but then if you go second all your guys die if you put them up the board. And you usually get second.

Want rerolls to hit in melee? NOPE! The Omniscient mask only affect SKITARII, not CULT MECH.

Want some kind of reroll to wound mechanic in melee like every other viable melee unit in the game? LOLNO GTFO unless you take the gimp forgeworld that is so bad no one even bothers theorycrafting it.

Want to have something to throw in against BOYS or GAUNT herds? Absolutely not! Staff priests only have 2 attacks and usually only land 1 wound after hit/wound rolls.

Staff priests cost like an intercessor ... but are as tough as a 2xGuardsmen (I forgot the 5+FNP) against basic bolter fire. If they were 10 points your opponent could still play around them by shooting them with str4, ap0 shots.


All of this. ALL OF IT.

Not to be that horribly salted person, but I feel like the WarConvo roflstomped some of the playtesters in tourneys and they went out of their way to wreck AdMech as a faction. Seriously.

   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




One list i like to use at 1000 points is the set up below. I run them as Stygies and occasionally swap out a couple of things to get a couple of ironstriders in. Fun list but i dont think its perfect and has its flaws - which makes it more interesting in a friendly game

HQ
Tech-Priest Dominus with Eradication Ray, Omnissian Axe, Phosphor Serpenta
Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troops
Skitarii Rangers Omnispex and 2 Transuranic Arquebus
Skitarii Rangers 5 man squad with a plasma caliver and omnispex
2 x Skitarii Vanguards with enhanced data tether and plasma caliver

Elite’s
Cybernetica Datasmith

Heavy
Kastelan Robots - dakkabots
Onager Dunecrawler Neutron and extra stubber
Onager Dunecrawler Neutron and extra stubber

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/28 12:51:34


 
   
Made in us
Liberated Grot Land Raida




The way I've been playing Electropriests is my shooty lucius version. I bring a TPD with the lucius relic and the eradication ray and I deep strike those suckers and a unit of skitarii loaded up with plasma. Then when they come down, the TPD solar flares up and drops down with them. The priests make a very solid horde killing unit, and I get most of the rerolls I would get with Belligerent Carl but anywhere I want them on the board.

I prefer the shootypriests because melee is kind of a bonus for them, not a requirement, and since I have no way to get any better odds to get in than a single die reroll I can't get above the 48% chance to get in.

I'm unlikely to be wiling to drop that many points on a 48% chance that I have a melee unit that does damage and survives a single turn. shootypriests are a suicide squad but they give me a very solid pressure play.
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




I really need to decide where i want to take my admech army next. I now have 5 ironstriders, 2 onager and 4 robots with regular troops and tpd/enginseer. Mix in some melee or add more shooty. Im leaning towards edstroyers if i’m honest as the multiplying factor elimination volley gives with robots plus their inherant shootiness seems to fit better.

Or i hold off and see what fires brings...

I really want more melee goodness to give me a more balanced force...but it does kinda feel like id be gimping myself. 1500 points feels so restrictive lol
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Thought id share my brothers tourney list that has been extremely competitive for him.

Cawl
Enginseer

3 grav dev
3 grav dev
8 vanguard

Onager
Onager

Dom

8 skittles 2 plas
8 skittles 2 plas

2 kast phos and one has 2 fists
2 kast all phos
2 kast phos and one has 2 fists

I dont have pt costs so might not be perfect but you get the idea.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/28 14:54:09


 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





NC

When an Eldar player starts talking AdMech.

Deep Striking Robots!

@Incognito15

Kataphron anything are pretty awful choices. Why are the Robots in units of two? That is some pre-Index stuff there. You want a fat single unit to max out Wrath of Mars with.

Why 8-man dual Plasma and not 10-man triple? Might as well go overboard if you aren't going bare bones. Also guessing those are Neutronagers, which are always useful. Why a TPD in the second detachment? Wasted points really.

All around the list feels very casual, which is fine. I wouldn't take it to a tourney though - at least not a high-end event with any amount of WAAC players (which I tend to see here in NC).

   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

Yeah, Kataphrons are absolute garbage, as are Fistalens. And deepstriking Kastalens has to be a joke.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




the_scotsman wrote:
The way I've been playing Electropriests is my shooty lucius version. I bring a TPD with the lucius relic and the eradication ray and I deep strike those suckers and a unit of skitarii loaded up with plasma. Then when they come down, the TPD solar flares up and drops down with them. The priests make a very solid horde killing unit, and I get most of the rerolls I would get with Belligerent Carl but anywhere I want them on the board.

I prefer the shootypriests because melee is kind of a bonus for them, not a requirement, and since I have no way to get any better odds to get in than a single die reroll I can't get above the 48% chance to get in.

I'm unlikely to be wiling to drop that many points on a 48% chance that I have a melee unit that does damage and survives a single turn. shootypriests are a suicide squad but they give me a very solid pressure play.


Yes, shooty LUCIUS is the best possible way to play them. All the other options are subject to easy counterplays that render them useless. At 14 points a piece for an average of 3 str5 hits they compete on pretty even terms with a deepstrike of 8 point a piece vanguard or 7 point a piece rangers. I would prefer the skitarii teams because i have them painted and love the models, but mathwise they are pretty close. The electropriests are little tougher after you factor in morale. But the skitarii teams can hit at 18" instead of 12" and can bring plasma weapons.

EDIT: another lame lack of synergy with electropriests: they have 6+ armor and a 5++ invul, so they will never benefit from being in cover (shroudpsalm).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/28 19:50:48


 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





NC

Wulfey wrote:

EDIT: another lame lack of synergy with electropriests: they have 6+ armor and a 5++ invul, so they will never benefit from being in cover (shroudpsalm).


That delightful Skornergy we have.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Curious on why one blob of kastellans when you can just tie them up with rhinos. Then your falling back and doing nothing.

The shooting from kataphrons is impressive i find. What do you usually have in its place?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
When an Eldar player starts talking AdMech.

Deep Striking Robots!

@Incognito15

Kataphron anything are pretty awful choices. Why are the Robots in units of two? That is some pre-Index stuff there. You want a fat single unit to max out Wrath of Mars with.

Why 8-man dual Plasma and not 10-man triple? Might as well go overboard if you aren't going bare bones. Also guessing those are Neutronagers, which are always useful. Why a TPD in the second detachment? Wasted points really.

All around the list feels very casual, which is fine. I wouldn't take it to a tourney though - at least not a high-end event with any amount of WAAC players (which I tend to see here in NC).



I fail to see how in your meta your opponents dont have a way to deal with a unit with no cc but a lot of shooting.

Curious why people are anti destroyers. I get they are fragile but for they are awesome shooting.

And don't say take Astra Militarum. Any joe blow knows that cadian infantry makes their army that much better. Your not a tourney player because you know this, it's common knowledge. There is not one army for imperium that does not benefit from Astra Militarum.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/12/29 00:03:26


 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

Incognito15 wrote:
Curious on why one blob of kastellans when you can just tie them up with rhinos. Then your falling back and doing nothing.

The shooting from kataphrons is impressive i find. What do you usually have in its place?

Well, for the cost of 3 kataphrons destroyers, I can have 2 kastellan robots. 15 grav cannon or 10.5 culverin shots plus 3 phosphor blaster shots..... or you could have THIRTY-SIX phosphor shots. I know which option sounds better to me. Oh, and the robots are also 1000x more durable.

If a target is in my line of sight, the best DPS I have access to is robots with cawl. If the target is out of my line of sight, admech literally doesn't have an option so I consider my Basilisks to be AdMech for all intents and purposes. If the target is out of my line of sight and 100% priority needs to die, then I send in the sacrificial Elysians with their plasma guns or a unit of Lucius skitarii with plasma guns deep striking.

But, the target in line of sight? Can't think of anything I would rather shoot it with than robots.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/29 03:41:54


ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Fair enough.
   
Made in lt
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Destroyers are the worst unit BY FAR for durability we have. It's crazy how bad they are. And the damage they deal is just OK. They have to go OC plasma to do any real damage and then on a 1 (yes yes re-rolls) they just straight up die - that's a 3 wound 70pts model dying btw...

Check my mathammer if you want in my sig.

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
 
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