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 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Unit limits? Think I must of skipped over that. Which bit are you referring to chief?

Table. Organized Events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_adeptus_mechanicus_en-1.pdf

Scryerskull and Litany actually clarified!

But nothing useful for us. No point errata, no rules fixes. Nada.

Data sheet 3 per 2k list. Wait does that mean You could have 6 Daka bots in a squad and an additional 2 in a seperate squad but you could not have 4 squads of 2?

Seems to be the case. It is the spam-killer rule, basically.

Oh. Wow that is interesting. Will watch with interest how this plays out.

If playing imperial knights that would mean you couldn’t use 4 Armigers alongside 2 bigger knights(ie two super heavy detachments). Not that you would want to since they are gak

Ideasweasel wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Unit limits? Think I must of skipped over that. Which bit are you referring to chief?

Table. Organized Events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_adeptus_mechanicus_en-1.pdf

Scryerskull and Litany actually clarified!

But nothing useful for us. No point errata, no rules fixes. Nada.

Data sheet 3 per 2k list. Wait does that mean You could have 6 Daka bots in a squad and an additional 2 in a seperate squad but you could not have 4 squads of 2?

Seems to be the case. It is the spam-killer rule, basically.

Oh. Wow that is interesting. Will watch with interest how this plays out.

If playing imperial knights that would mean you couldn’t use 4 Armigers alongside 2 bigger knights(ie two super heavy detachments). Not that you would want to since they are gak

You can put multiple Armigers into a single LoW slot, right? So that is a way to get them... if you really want to commit to theme, I guess.

And yeah, really curious to see what Wulfey will do now that Soup took a bit of a hit.

Good thing I got my scout tourney in when I could! Battalions giving 5 CP opens up some more options with high CP characters. I have some unpainted sisters of silence that may be turned into Sisters of battle HQs pretty soon. And I have some unpainted blood angels HQ conversions. Time to start rewriting a list that can win a tournament again.

Also, the 'no deepstrike out of deployment on first turn' means that SCOUTS are not as mandatory as they were. First turn alpha deep strikes were skewing the game into requiring stupid scouts. They may still be better than rangers even with the deep strike delay, but they won't be as damnably necessary. I am very happy that GW shut down that first turn alpha deep strike BS. It was ruining the game.

Screens are less important than before now, I can use my pure AdMech force knowing I'm not handicapping myself too much and can actually deploy my infantry in good positions instead of all over the place to prevent 1st turn rapetrain.

Wulfey wrote:
Good thing I got my scout tourney in when I could! Battalions giving 5 CP opens up some more options with high CP characters. I have some unpainted sisters of silence that may be turned into Sisters of battle HQs pretty soon. And I have some unpainted blood angels HQ conversions. Time to start rewriting a list that can win a tournament again.

Also, the 'no deepstrike out of deployment on first turn' means that SCOUTS are not as mandatory as they were. First turn alpha deep strikes were skewing the game into requiring stupid scouts. They may still be better than rangers even with the deep strike delay, but they won't be as damnably necessary. I am very happy that GW shut down that first turn alpha deep strike BS. It was ruining the game.

Still bringing in a sizeable force of your Admech Wulfey?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What do you guys think abut my below list. I mostly have all units except for 2 dragoons and the electro priests.

What would you guys do to improve upon it? Assuming I wanted to play mono faction


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [62 PL, 1059pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

Forge World: Stygies VIII

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 127pts]: Omnissian Axe, Phosphor Serpenta, The Omniscient Mask, Volkite Blaster
. Warlord: Monitor Malevolus

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm

+ Troops +

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic rifle

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic rifle

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic rifle

+ Elites +

Fulgurite Electro-Priests [16 PL, 288pts]: 18x Fulgurite Electro-Priest

Sicarian Infiltrators [6 PL, 110pts]
. Infiltrator Princeps
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine
. Sicarian Infiltrator
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine
. Sicarian Infiltrator
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine
. Sicarian Infiltrator
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine
. Sicarian Infiltrator
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine

Sicarian Infiltrators [6 PL, 110pts]
. Infiltrator Princeps
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine
. Sicarian Infiltrator
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine
. Sicarian Infiltrator
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine
. Sicarian Infiltrator
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine
. Sicarian Infiltrator
. . Stubcarbine & Power sword: Power sword, Stubcarbine

+ Fast Attack +

Sydonian Dragoons [12 PL, 272pts]
. Sydonian Dragoon: Taser lance
. Sydonian Dragoon: Taser lance
. Sydonian Dragoon: Taser lance
. Sydonian Dragoon: Taser lance

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [51 PL, 940pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

Forge World: Mars

+ HQ +

Belisarius Cawl [13 PL, 240pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Kastelan Robots [24 PL, 440pts]
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor blaster
. . Heavy phosphor blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor blaster
. . Heavy phosphor blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor blaster
. . Heavy phosphor blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor blaster
. . Heavy phosphor blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor blaster

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 130pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Icarus Array

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 130pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Icarus Array

++ Total: [113 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

STYGIES + MARS went up in viability massively by turning off turn 1 DSrapetrains. Dragoons are now really good mid board screeners thanks to their durability and movement speed. And yes, I will be running a higher percentage of admech because admech itself is more viable. I don't need to rely on non-admech stuff to stay in the game. I wanted to run a 3-0 list, and that meant no more than 1100 points of admech. A 3-0 list with 1500 points of admech will definitely be a thing.

Anyone notice how any scrap of viability that Graia had was taken out back behind the shed and 'put to sleep'?

Ooops. I tried to make a list and came up with something not legal because I am dumb.

Honestly, I can't find one I like. I am going to continue waiting for Fires. :/

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Ooops. I tried to make a list and came up with something not legal because I am dumb.

Honestly, I can't find one I like. I am going to continue waiting for Fires. :/

Same, I got 3 Ursarax assembled and painted, as well as 10 secutarii hoplites assembled and ready to be painted

 LexOdin9 wrote:
Anyone notice how any scrap of viability that Graia had was taken out back behind the shed and 'put to sleep'?

The graia thing seems good to me. It means if someone fires a weapon that does 6 damage at a ranger you just roll one die, on the roll of a 6 it survives. If someone wounds with three bolters you roll three die, needing all to be 6's for it to survive. It's how I've played it since codex release and since they're not very popular it seems it might be that they clarified it because of my questions. I'm happy to have it on paper even if I'm annoyed that a kataphron on full health overheating with their plasma is "brought back" on one wound rather than three.

PiñaColada wrote:

 LexOdin9 wrote:
Anyone notice how any scrap of viability that Graia had was taken out back behind the shed and 'put to sleep'?

The graia thing seems good to me. It means if someone fires a weapon that does 6 damage at a ranger you just roll one die, on the roll of a 6 it survives. If someone wounds with three bolters you roll three die, needing all to be 6's for it to survive. It's how I've played it since codex release and since they're not very popular it seems it might be that they clarified it because of my questions. I'm happy to have it on paper even if I'm annoyed that a kataphron on full health overheating with their plasma is "brought back" on one wound rather than three.

You must not have been reading the changes closely.

(1) Graia save no longer works on anything in our army that has a FNP (so electropriests no longer benefit from being in a Graia army)

(2) Suppose your Onager has 6 wounds left and a lascannon deals 6 damage to it. If you pass your Graia save, you now have 1 wound left. In the old version, you'd still have 6 wounds left.

In the old version, Graia was marginally worth taking for these reasons. This trait was not causing the codex to over-perform. And yet here we are, it's nerfed.

Were you guys seeing Graia at the top tables? I wasn't.

And yet at the same time we still have way overpriced ruststalkers. Someone's perspective is incredibly warped.

 LexOdin9 wrote:

You must not have been reading the changes closely.

(1) Graia save no longer works on anything in our army that has a FNP (so electropriests no longer benefit from being in a Graia army)

(2) Suppose your Onager has 6 wounds left and a lascannon deals 6 damage to it. If you pass your Graia save, you now have 1 wound left. In the old version, you'd still have 6 wounds left.

In the old version, Graia was marginally worth taking for these reasons. This trait was not causing the codex to over-perform. And yet here we are, it's nerfed.

Were you guys seeing Graia at the top tables? I wasn't.

And yet at the same time we still have way overpriced ruststalkers. Someone's perspective is incredibly warped.

1, Yeah but that's a general nerf that from a "flow of game" perspective I understand. Sure it sucks that electropriests are worse but that's not a change to the refusal to yield ability.
2, I seriously doubt that was what the old rule meant.Granted the rule was written with clunky language but it says that the wound that slew it is ignored not every point of damage. Maybe I misunderstood the old rule but I didn't imagine it working the way you evidently assumed.
Did you see graia at top tables? No, and you still won't. I'll still argue this wasn't a nerf to the dogma itself though and merely a clarification.

The way I see it, it blocked all damage on the killing wound on a roll of 6.

So from my perspective, it is a nerf. And one that makes me not want to take Graia.

I'm a bit salty about it because admech is not a top tier codex, there's really no need for the trait to be that weak!

I'm going to return to playing mono-Mars, such a disappointment.

I'm going to try my Stygies lists with 10 Fulgurites and 3 Dragoons in Infiltration in the upcoming days, just so people don't believe they're safe from turn 1 charges, yet... Maybe even add one of my Domini with the relic axe that gives +2S -2 AP 3D.

How do we know that Stygies is immune to the turn 1 deep strike changes?

I'm not doubting, I just want to know what the argument is. Lay it out for me, if you will.

So the basic gunline list of Cawl - dakkabots - guard artillery is even better. The stuff that really pooped on that list got weaker. Celestine is now more expensive to get, but a guard battalion gives lots of CP and going up to a battalion of MARS gives a whole lot of CP.

This list has 13CP. Like holy hell that is a lot. Do I even need the CP battery? Maybe I even run sisters HQs.

CADIA - 2x commanders, 3x9 mortar guards, 2x baslisks, 2x mortar teams
SISTERS - Celestine + 1x5 girls with 3x storm bolters
MARS - Cawl, Enginseer, 5x dakkabots, 2x neutrons, 3x5 rangers or vanguards

No scouts. But I can double move the guardsmen up the board even further than the scouts on turn 1.

 LexOdin9 wrote:
How do we know that Stygies is immune to the turn 1 deep strike changes?

I'm not doubting, I just want to know what the argument is. Lay it out for me, if you will.

At the end of the paragraph for Tactical Reserves:

Note that we have not applied this restriction to Genestealer Cults or abilities and Stratagems employed by armies such as Raven Guard – the opportunity to deploy units en masse after deployment is a central part of the design of these armies.

Our Infiltrate stratagem is the same as Raven Guard. And also it circumvent the rule because the unit is not arriving at his first turn, but right before it.

 Aaranis wrote:

 LexOdin9 wrote:
How do we know that Stygies is immune to the turn 1 deep strike changes?

I'm not doubting, I just want to know what the argument is. Lay it out for me, if you will.

At the end of the paragraph for Tactical Reserves:

Note that we have not applied this restriction to Genestealer Cults or abilities and Stratagems employed by armies such as Raven Guard – the opportunity to deploy units en masse after deployment is a central part of the design of these armies.

Our Infiltrate stratagem is the same as Raven Guard. And also it circumvent the rule because the unit is not arriving at his first turn, but right before it.

Might that be FAQ’d or is that working as intended I wonder?

Ideasweasel wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

 LexOdin9 wrote:
How do we know that Stygies is immune to the turn 1 deep strike changes?

I'm not doubting, I just want to know what the argument is. Lay it out for me, if you will.

At the end of the paragraph for Tactical Reserves:

Note that we have not applied this restriction to Genestealer Cults or abilities and Stratagems employed by armies such as Raven Guard – the opportunity to deploy units en masse after deployment is a central part of the design of these armies.

Our Infiltrate stratagem is the same as Raven Guard. And also it circumvent the rule because the unit is not arriving at his first turn, but right before it.

Might that be FAQ’d or is that working as intended I wonder?

Why would they FAQ the only exception ? It's meant to be this way, or Infiltrate becomes plain unusable because you'll be in a weird inter-dimensional plane where you're not exactly in reserve but not exactly on the table turn 1.

Wulfey wrote:
So the basic gunline list of Cawl - dakkabots - guard artillery is even better. The stuff that really pooped on that list got weaker. Celestine is now more expensive to get, but a guard battalion gives lots of CP and going up to a battalion of MARS gives a whole lot of CP.

This list has 13CP. Like holy hell that is a lot. Do I even need the CP battery? Maybe I even run sisters HQs.

CADIA - 2x commanders, 3x9 mortar guards, 2x baslisks, 2x mortar teams
SISTERS - Celestine + 1x5 girls with 3x storm bolters
MARS - Cawl, Enginseer, 5x dakkabots, 2x neutrons, 3x5 rangers or vanguards

No scouts. But I can double move the guardsmen up the board even further than the scouts on turn 1.

Are you finding Neutrons reliable? I seem to always roll a D3 and get 1. It’s uncanny


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aaranis wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

 LexOdin9 wrote:
How do we know that Stygies is immune to the turn 1 deep strike changes?

I'm not doubting, I just want to know what the argument is. Lay it out for me, if you will.

At the end of the paragraph for Tactical Reserves:

Note that we have not applied this restriction to Genestealer Cults or abilities and Stratagems employed by armies such as Raven Guard – the opportunity to deploy units en masse after deployment is a central part of the design of these armies.

Our Infiltrate stratagem is the same as Raven Guard. And also it circumvent the rule because the unit is not arriving at his first turn, but right before it.

Might that be FAQ’d or is that working as intended I wonder?

Why would they FAQ the only exception ? It's meant to be this way, or Infiltrate becomes plain unusable because you'll be in a weird inter-dimensional plane where you're not exactly in reserve but not exactly on the table turn 1.

I dunno. Just speculating. Oh well in that case Stygies definitely has the edge over Lucius. I tend to swap back and forth with those forgeworlds

Alright no problems Never tried Lucius, I tend to think relying on a 9" charge for a CC unit is bad. For a shooty unit (let's say Corpuscarii) then it's good because you can have them strike where you need them to be.

Ruins are now unchargeable. Thoughts? ..........................................................................................

Shoot them a bit, charge after there's room for one model. Or use WMS if there's a little gap somewhere. It just gives us more protection when for example using a Ranger squad atop a ruin, by spacing them so that they occupy the whole floor. It's not charge-proof 100% but if your charger don't have shooting weapons you're good.

EDIT: My 2000 pts AdMech & Dark Angels twin batallions list now gives me 13 CP. I can finally use Necromechanic without feeling bad.

 Aaranis wrote:
Alright no problems Never tried Lucius, I tend to think relying on a 9" charge for a CC unit is bad. For a shooty unit (let's say Corpuscarii) then it's good because you can have them strike where you need them to be.

Indeed, hasn’t been too successful for me so far

 Aaranis wrote:
Shoot them a bit, charge after there's room for one model. Or use WMS if there's a little gap somewhere. It just gives us more protection when for example using a Ranger squad atop a ruin, by spacing them so that they occupy the whole floor. It's not charge-proof 100% but if your charger don't have shooting weapons you're good.

EDIT: My 2000 pts AdMech & Dark Angels twin batallions list now gives me 13 CP. I can finally use Necromechanic without feeling bad.

Nope. You can't use wobbly model at all now. So 3 models can cover an entire floor of a ruin easily so that a base can't fit

5CP battalions makes LUCIUS deepstrike bombs pretty interesting. A battalion now has the CP to deep strike itself. 18" range guns that don't care about screens has me thinking about herds of blandguard with omnispexes starting off the table.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Shoot them a bit, charge after there's room for one model. Or use WMS if there's a little gap somewhere. It just gives us more protection when for example using a Ranger squad atop a ruin, by spacing them so that they occupy the whole floor. It's not charge-proof 100% but if your charger don't have shooting weapons you're good.

EDIT: My 2000 pts AdMech & Dark Angels twin batallions list now gives me 13 CP. I can finally use Necromechanic without feeling bad.

Nope. You can't use wobbly model at all now. So 3 models can cover an entire floor of a ruin easily so that a base can't fit

Depends heavily on the structure of the building, they're always a gap you could fit a small base in. And for 3 models to cover a whole floor, they'd need to be really big models or be on a tiny floor.

Wulfey wrote:
5CP battalions makes LUCIUS deepstrike bombs pretty interesting. A battalion now has the CP to deep strike itself. 18" range guns that don't care about screens has me thinking about herds of blandguard with omnispexes starting off the table.

hmm LUCIUS alpha is no more, but STYGIES VIII ist still legit

Holy crap, guys. We got a HUGE indirect buff.

NONE of our primary strengths were nerfed. ALL of our primary weaknesses got mitigated.

No more Soup Battalions (need to figure out if bringing Rowboat is worth it, as well as the Scouts), but so many other indirect buffs for AdMech proper.

Also, not sure if this is old, but HWTs apparently get ONE Lasgun and Frag nades. Haha.

They also clarified the CP rerolls for Grand Strategist. You roll one dice per CP spent, not per stratagem used. Kurov's Aquila counts per opponent's strategem used though.

Oh. RoLC can only be unveiled once per battle. =(

Bringing Celestine and some seraphim brings my Stygies force a huge extra punch. Are those days over with the anti soup rules, or can I still bring both detachments to matched play games?