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2017/10/14 18:23:26
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I'm starting to actually dislike the IG apologists for this edition more than the Eldar ones for 6th and 7th.
I dunno man. As early as 40k has had an online presence (probably around 3rd edition) there have been "Sky is Falling" freakouts in response to codex releases. This sort of thread is so inevitable and perpetual in this community.
It hasn't even been a week since the book has been released, we have no real data.
Heck I took a 76 PL list against a 100PL Dark Angels list yesterday and he conceded on Turn 2. A balanced codex is not capable of pulling stuff like that.
All of the codexes are capable of pulling that off - without seeing the lists it doesn't mean anything.
If you did that against a top tier DA list then you've got a point. If his list was weaksauce then it means nothing.
Um, no.
Pulling this off against a list that has a 4++ bubble is insane.
Do you know how hard it is for a normal list to pop Dark Angels that fast? I can't imagine being outnumbered by them. Outside of Guilliman, DA are the most competitive by virtue of that 4++.
I think you're underestimating how terrible some people's lists are... I mean, we have people on Dakka who claim that making any list selection decision at all on the basis of effectiveness is powergaming.
2017/10/14 19:57:40
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
Some codex issues are easy to spot without needing time to see how they work out. Stuff like the Shadowsord for example. Some things are just rather plain, you didnt need time to see that 7E scatterbikes were going to be broken either. Other things may need some time to bear out.
As for a 76 PL to 100PL win, given how insanely variable PL is, without seeing the lists, its hard to make a judgement on that, as that doesn't surprise me at all given how poor PL is at actually representing...well...anything with respect to balance. It's just not really possible to judge any sort of balance on off PL.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2017/10/14 20:24:27
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
Heck I took a 76 PL list against a 100PL Dark Angels list yesterday and he conceded on Turn 2. A balanced codex is not capable of pulling stuff like that.
All of the codexes are capable of pulling that off - without seeing the lists it doesn't mean anything.
If you did that against a top tier DA list then you've got a point. If his list was weaksauce then it means nothing.
We both brought "casual" lists, in that all I had were infantry squads, some vets in transports, and a couple russes vs a Dark angles list with a mix of tac, primaris, terminators, etc. Aka two very typical lists you would expect on a friendly game night among friends, aside from my self imposed handicap. No this doesnt say much about tournament play, you're absolutely correct there, but since casual play will be the majority of the playerbase, this is still a huge deal. I had 0 conscripts, punishers, stormtroopers, pyskers, or artillery. The most OP thing I know of in the list was a single Executioner. I was even running autocannons, Grenade Launchers, Flamers, and Missile launchers, aka our worst weapons options. This is what an IG list is capable of without even trying. I guarantee you against something like a Guilleman gunline or Mortarian I'd need to have equal points and "try" a bit harder but this doesnt exclude the fact that the codex at the bare minimum is going to upset casual groups. The issue Im seeing is that my stuff is so cheap that I can ensure I have plenty of infantry and tanks, to where an opponent may have the tools to deal with one element but never both. Had I used the extra PL I'd probaby have added a couple more russes and infantry squads or just added an entire stormtrooper Batallion.
These armies are what you would see if two people built their lists based off the fluff as what they're supposed to look like. Yet I ultimately felt like I had it in the bag from the get go and while the Dark Angels player made a couple of mistakes, even with perfect play and hot dice I dont see how he wouldve stopped me.
I just dont see how the average casual list stands a chance against a similar point mixed IG army. I just have the perfect storm of bodies and armor where you can counter one element but never both. I've already told people at the store that I'm cool with them tooling their lists to my army before the game, they kind of need all the help they can get. This is essentially the complaint players had against armies like Eldar in 7th. Yes, you could beat them at the tournament level and they never *completely* dominated the tournament scene, but at the casual level, where a major chunk of the community plays, Eldar were basically considered unstoppable. This is a big deal because IG players are going to run into a stigma and a lack of people willing to play them, just like Eldar and Tau did. If I were a betting man, I would wager that IG will not completely cover the tournament brackets or even take over 50% of the top spots (possibly more if you consider splashes of IG in soup armies in that number or not). But at the casual level, where most of us on this forum lie, IG are just too cheap in some key areas.
This isnt even a "come on guys its been out for a week lets see how it looks in a month" issue. Anyone with an elementary grasp of math and rules mechanics can tell this codex is more powerful than the index, which in certain areas was already too powerful. Almost every unit either got cheaper, got buffed, or both. Buffs came universally in regiment traits alone, and thats without counting new orders, warlord traits, specific buffs, or strategems. I'm absolutely sure there are lists out there that can beat an optimized IG army, but it will most certainly be an uphill battle and not something every codex can do without tailoring. Imperial Guard as a whole right now is too powerful, I dont know how else to word it. Even if every subsequent codex comes out IG's power level (and we know they wont) it still leaves the issues of the codexes that came before it like admech. IG needs points adjustments, thats all there is to it. The mechanics of 8th edition have made guardsmen alone far more powerful at their statline than they've ever been, yet theyre cheaper! To the point where all 3 of our troop choices alone are widely considered among the best in the game! How does that seem fair? And that was in the index. Now we have the best battletanks, the best screens, the best anti tank, the best morale, the best anti horde, and even in areas where we dont dominate we're still very strong. We have no weaknesses to exploit, no mechanic that shuts us down, no clever play to one up us aside from just being even more efficient and broken than we are. I'm sorry but I'm just not seeing where there's any doubt to this anymore.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2017/10/14 20:32:53
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
And heading into the 5th round he's in 3rd place, under a DA list w/Hellblaster spam and Azrael who's 2nd and the Chaos Herohammer list who is currently first (Mort, Magnus, Malefic Lord for those who missed it).
Darsath wrote:
GhostRecon wrote: Comparing a DA Index against the brand new IG Codex; not a fair comparison, really.
But what if your army doesn't have a codex? You would need to compare them in that scenario.
You would, but it doesn't mean it's going to be (or even should be) a fair or balanced comparison. Simply put, Index armies just aren't comparable and balanced to Codex armies - just look at how much each Codex fills out its previous Index listing. The addition of Chapter/Legion/Forgeworld/Regiment tactics and Army/<keyword> specific stratagems alone puts the Codex army in a new category compared to its Index contemporaries. The Indices were only ever a stopgap to get everyone into 8th and give you something vaguely playable until you get your Codex - absolutely sucks, but at least you're only waiting months to get your Codex, not years.
So yes, it sucks being an Index army. My Tau army will remain shelved until I see what the Codex brings. Orks are in a similar state.
2017/10/14 23:49:48
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
And heading into the 5th round he's in 3rd place, under a DA list w/Hellblaster spam and Azrael who's 2nd and the Chaos Herohammer list who is currently first (Mort, Magnus, Malefic Lord for those who missed it).
Is the current tournament only 1000 points? For some reason I expected tournaments to be 1500 or 2000
Edit: And ok, he's not using boyz, but he's still running a horde Green-Tide list, he's just using grots instead. Still Orks 1 trick pony, he's just using a slightly different tack. That's almost 200 grots on the table.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/14 23:52:07
2017/10/15 01:04:13
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I'm starting to actually dislike the IG apologists for this edition more than the Eldar ones for 6th and 7th.
I dunno man. As early as 40k has had an online presence (probably around 3rd edition) there have been "Sky is Falling" freakouts in response to codex releases. This sort of thread is so inevitable and perpetual in this community.
It hasn't even been a week since the book has been released, we have no real data.
Exactly! Codex-rage is nothing new. The game designer's souls on their golden thrones are kept alive only by the salty tears of gamers.
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
2017/10/15 02:38:35
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
GhostRecon wrote: The Endurance GT (only GT I could find going on this weekend since a poster earlier in the thread mentioned a GT going) is 1000 pts, yeah.
Interesting. Though Ork hordes do tend to do better in low points games I find. Hordes are still Ork's only option though, I'm pleasantly surprised he has managed to do well using grots. Good for him, I always liked grots.
2017/10/15 02:46:01
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
And heading into the 5th round he's in 3rd place, under a DA list w/Hellblaster spam and Azrael who's 2nd and the Chaos Herohammer list who is currently first (Mort, Magnus, Malefic Lord for those who missed it).
Is the current tournament only 1000 points? For some reason I expected tournaments to be 1500 or 2000
Edit: And ok, he's not using boyz, but he's still running a horde Green-Tide list, he's just using grots instead. Still Orks 1 trick pony, he's just using a slightly different tack. That's almost 200 grots on the table.
Orks have 2 GT wins so far in 8th (Wet Coast GT, Attack-X) with 4 other top 5 finishes (Caledonian Revolution, Rampager, Eastcon, and Wargames Con). I can find readable lists for 5 of the 6, which show only one of them went over 90 boys( and that list wasn't one of the winners).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/15 02:47:51
2017/10/15 02:59:51
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
And heading into the 5th round he's in 3rd place, under a DA list w/Hellblaster spam and Azrael who's 2nd and the Chaos Herohammer list who is currently first (Mort, Magnus, Malefic Lord for those who missed it).
Is the current tournament only 1000 points? For some reason I expected tournaments to be 1500 or 2000
Edit: And ok, he's not using boyz, but he's still running a horde Green-Tide list, he's just using grots instead. Still Orks 1 trick pony, he's just using a slightly different tack. That's almost 200 grots on the table.
Orks have 2 GT wins so far in 8th (Wet Coast GT, Attack-X) with 4 other top 5 finishes (Caledonian Revolution, Rampager, Eastcon, and Wargames Con). I can find readable lists for 5 of the 6, which show only one of them went over 90 boys( and that list wasn't one of the winners).
Interesting. And completely contrary to all current information about the Ork index. Seems everyone is completely mistaken.
In which case there's a good chance the IG codex is actually completely underpowered, as apparently noone on dakka actually knows how this game works.
2017/10/15 03:24:15
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
Endurance GT finished. Again, a 1000pts tourney but the top 10 finishers were:
1. Chaos Herohammer list (Magnus, Mortarion, plus one Malefic Lord)
2. Eversor spam list (~12 Eversors plus some cyberwolves, couple of officers, and sabre weapon platforms)
3. Catachan Infantry Gunline (6x Infantry Squad, Straken and 2x Co Commander, Harker, Ministorium Priest, Commissar, 3x Scout Sentinel, 3x Heavy Quad Launcher)
4. DG Malefic Lord Spam (Lord, Typhus, 20 Cultists, 17 Poxwalkers, Plague Marine Squad, Tallyman, Helbrute, 5x Malefic Lord)
5. 'Cadian Shock Troops' - Can't pull the list (BestCoast App throws an error)
6. Dark Angels (Azrael, Ancient, 3x 5 Man Hellblaster Squads, 2x Lascannon Razorbacks)
7. Orks (the Gretchin spam list)
8. Harlequins (2x Troupe Master, 4x Troupe Squad, 4x Starweaver)
9. Adeptus Astartes (Hard to read/disjointed but looks like: Captain, Vet Squad (or two), 2x Terminator squads, maybe 2x Razorback)
10. SoB (Celestine w/2 Gemina, 2x Battle Sister Squad, Hospitallier, Imagifier, 2x Exorcist)
Only undefeated list was the Chaos Herohammer one that took 1st, winning Major Win in every one of his five games. 2nd place had one major loss; third place had two ties, two major wins, and one minor win.
2017/10/15 03:38:14
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
GhostRecon wrote: Endurance GT finished. Again, a 1000pts tourney but the top 10 finishers were:
1. Chaos Herohammer list (Magnus, Mortarion, plus one Malefic Lord)
2. Eversor spam list (~12 Eversors plus some cyberwolves, couple of officers, and sabre weapon platforms)
3. Catachan Infantry Gunline (6x Infantry Squad, Straken and 2x Co Commander, Harker, Ministorium Priest, Commissar, 3x Scout Sentinel, 3x Heavy Quad Launcher)
4. DG Malefic Lord Spam (Lord, Typhus, 20 Cultists, 17 Poxwalkers, Plague Marine Squad, Tallyman, Helbrute, 5x Malefic Lord)
5. 'Cadian Shock Troops' - Can't pull the list (BestCoast App throws an error)
6. Dark Angels (Azrael, Ancient, 3x 5 Man Hellblaster Squads, 2x Lascannon Razorbacks)
7. Orks (the Gretchin spam list)
8. Harlequins (2x Troupe Master, 4x Troupe Squad, 4x Starweaver)
9. Adeptus Astartes (Hard to read/disjointed but looks like: Captain, Vet Squad (or two), 2x Terminator squads, maybe 2x Razorback)
10. SoB (Celestine w/2 Gemina, 2x Battle Sister Squad, Hospitallier, Imagifier, 2x Exorcist)
Only undefeated list was the Chaos Herohammer one that took 1st, winning Major Win in every one of his five games. 2nd place had one major loss; third place had two ties, two major wins, and one minor win.
Thank you for posting this, it's nice to have some actual data to reference. Unsurprisingly, IG looks competitive but not overbearing based on these results (yes it's only one tournament, small sample size, blah blah blah, that goes without saying). From the way some people are overreacting , you would expect all 10 of these positions to be held by IG lists.
edit: That #3 Catachan list sounds like a lot of fun to play.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/15 03:39:39
2017/10/15 03:40:25
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
GhostRecon wrote: Endurance GT finished. Again, a 1000pts tourney but the top 10 finishers were:
1. Chaos Herohammer list (Magnus, Mortarion, plus one Malefic Lord)
2. Eversor spam list (~12 Eversors plus some cyberwolves, couple of officers, and sabre weapon platforms)
3. Catachan Infantry Gunline (6x Infantry Squad, Straken and 2x Co Commander, Harker, Ministorium Priest, Commissar, 3x Scout Sentinel, 3x Heavy Quad Launcher)
4. DG Malefic Lord Spam (Lord, Typhus, 20 Cultists, 17 Poxwalkers, Plague Marine Squad, Tallyman, Helbrute, 5x Malefic Lord)
5. 'Cadian Shock Troops' - Can't pull the list (BestCoast App throws an error)
6. Dark Angels (Azrael, Ancient, 3x 5 Man Hellblaster Squads, 2x Lascannon Razorbacks)
7. Orks (the Gretchin spam list)
8. Harlequins (2x Troupe Master, 4x Troupe Squad, 4x Starweaver)
9. Adeptus Astartes (Hard to read/disjointed but looks like: Captain, Vet Squad (or two), 2x Terminator squads, maybe 2x Razorback)
10. SoB (Celestine w/2 Gemina, 2x Battle Sister Squad, Hospitallier, Imagifier, 2x Exorcist)
Only undefeated list was the Chaos Herohammer one that took 1st, winning Major Win in every one of his five games. 2nd place had one major loss; third place had two ties, two major wins, and one minor win.
Well GW did say that 8th would be the edition of Imperium vs Chaos. Only two non-human armies in the top ten. Not surprising.
Does seem that perhaps the new IG codex isn't any more powerful than the Index was, though it may just be that IG players using a 2 day old codex hadn't quite learnt it yet.
Will be interesting to see the next tournament results, especially after Eldar and Tyranids get their codices. Perhaps one of them will actually place in the top ten next time. Would also be interesting to see results from larger games, as 1000 points seems small. Some armies do scale better than others.
2017/10/15 05:58:16
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
GhostRecon wrote: Endurance GT finished. Again, a 1000pts tourney but the top 10 finishers were:
1. Chaos Herohammer list (Magnus, Mortarion, plus one Malefic Lord)
2. Eversor spam list (~12 Eversors plus some cyberwolves, couple of officers, and sabre weapon platforms)
3. Catachan Infantry Gunline (6x Infantry Squad, Straken and 2x Co Commander, Harker, Ministorium Priest, Commissar, 3x Scout Sentinel, 3x Heavy Quad Launcher)
4. DG Malefic Lord Spam (Lord, Typhus, 20 Cultists, 17 Poxwalkers, Plague Marine Squad, Tallyman, Helbrute, 5x Malefic Lord)
5. 'Cadian Shock Troops' - Can't pull the list (BestCoast App throws an error)
6. Dark Angels (Azrael, Ancient, 3x 5 Man Hellblaster Squads, 2x Lascannon Razorbacks)
7. Orks (the Gretchin spam list)
8. Harlequins (2x Troupe Master, 4x Troupe Squad, 4x Starweaver)
9. Adeptus Astartes (Hard to read/disjointed but looks like: Captain, Vet Squad (or two), 2x Terminator squads, maybe 2x Razorback)
10. SoB (Celestine w/2 Gemina, 2x Battle Sister Squad, Hospitallier, Imagifier, 2x Exorcist)
Only undefeated list was the Chaos Herohammer one that took 1st, winning Major Win in every one of his five games. 2nd place had one major loss; third place had two ties, two major wins, and one minor win.
Good to know that dumb idea I had of a murder ball with Straken and Priests is apparently worth a try
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2017/10/15 12:45:48
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
GhostRecon wrote: Endurance GT finished. Again, a 1000pts tourney but the top 10 finishers were:
1. Chaos Herohammer list (Magnus, Mortarion, plus one Malefic Lord)
2. Eversor spam list (~12 Eversors plus some cyberwolves, couple of officers, and sabre weapon platforms)
3. Catachan Infantry Gunline (6x Infantry Squad, Straken and 2x Co Commander, Harker, Ministorium Priest, Commissar, 3x Scout Sentinel, 3x Heavy Quad Launcher)
4. DG Malefic Lord Spam (Lord, Typhus, 20 Cultists, 17 Poxwalkers, Plague Marine Squad, Tallyman, Helbrute, 5x Malefic Lord)
5. 'Cadian Shock Troops' - Can't pull the list (BestCoast App throws an error)
6. Dark Angels (Azrael, Ancient, 3x 5 Man Hellblaster Squads, 2x Lascannon Razorbacks)
7. Orks (the Gretchin spam list)
8. Harlequins (2x Troupe Master, 4x Troupe Squad, 4x Starweaver)
9. Adeptus Astartes (Hard to read/disjointed but looks like: Captain, Vet Squad (or two), 2x Terminator squads, maybe 2x Razorback)
10. SoB (Celestine w/2 Gemina, 2x Battle Sister Squad, Hospitallier, Imagifier, 2x Exorcist)
Only undefeated list was the Chaos Herohammer one that took 1st, winning Major Win in every one of his five games. 2nd place had one major loss; third place had two ties, two major wins, and one minor win.
Meh, not only am i surprised it's a 1000 point GT event but they then didn't put restrictions on list building? At 1000 points i don't think there is any army that could really do much vs Magnus, Mortarian and whatever else that fits, and it's not like it wasn't going to be obvious that this wasn't going to be a thing. Even at 2k points in Heat 1 GWGT this weekend apparently there are a fair amount of the Chaos Primarchs + friends lists there.
2017/10/15 13:25:29
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
If codexs provide so much value where is adeptus mechanicus super army? Can anyone make a 1000 list brigade? And bring what enginseers? Gw balance and fixes only according to sales they want nothing else.
When they sell enough they will faq it. That's the real problem with this community you don't demand codex to be serious. You keep buying crap errata faq etc. So they got it nice and simple . Index sales codex sales faq sales errata sales and if a new unit comes along that's it. Still some of us are not blind to see extreme unbalanced rules. No need to see tour.
When Astra m codex released there was not a single one serious enough not able to see this crap? Mortarion you didn't know? What was the surprise? Char list assassin's?
Ork with no codex was the only question here. But even so I getting tired of this crap and community tolerance for an 8th time!!!!be happy again with faqs and erratas . This Dev team is a moack towards hobby community. The game has no actual value it just keeps changing for no reason. Not gonna play the buy all stupid ideas get has sorry. And many in here must grow some expectations on this or soon this game it will become like any other that downgraded to a point of spamming crap.!!!!
The game has zero value atm and if you don't see it then you just plain .....!!!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/15 13:30:03
2017/10/15 13:39:41
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
There are some nuggets of truth buried in that rant. Telling people to leave won't make them leave. There's a reason they're still here and voicing on the forums.
Its because they care. They may be watching a game they've played for 20 years become an increasingly unbalanced mess, and that upsets them. They might have a large army, or two, or five and are fairly heavily invested. They may be attached to the background and lore and hate how the game may not align with it.
All of these are reasons people may be still in the game but complaining about.
Instead of telling to people to feth off, maybe either try ignoring them or engaging them with reasonable discussion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/15 18:29:11
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
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2017/10/15 14:11:44
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
Reasonable discussion? The dude lives for hyperbole. He even suggested people not play or buy their codex to protest GW. What reasonable discussion do you think can come out of him?
Many many people on this forum have a huge hate boner for armies they don't like; armies they perceive to be better than their army. Guard got a shiny new codex and he expected them to sweep every tournament. But lo and behold they're simply competitive, just like chaos, just like marines, just like sisters of battle, and harlequins, and even friggin' ORKS. If those tournament results show anything, it's a very HEALTHY competitive scene. One list isn't dominating everything. In fact, no list is the same. That's incredible! Now are all armies represented? Unfortunately no. And that's a shame, but it's a hell of a lot better than it's been in the past.
So since he couldn't reasonably rant about Guard being OP, he redirects his anger with some non-sensical "community is too tolerant and doesn't demand serious codexes!" rant. Like... what? Community doesn't demand serious codexes? What the hell does that even mean? The community was absolutely doing that. There were numerous threads about what the most OP units are and ideas on how to reign them in.
And, by the way, I think it's silly that the community was so enraged at OP russ tanks and superheavies but I don't see those in that tournament list.
<edit> As you can see, I'm a little riled up about this as well. I'm weary of people screaming that the sky is falling. The title of this very thread assumes that Guard is making a mess of tournaments. It's oh so tiring.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/15 14:23:40
2017/10/15 15:15:52
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
Guard was already making a mess of tournaments and apologists like you are just as bad.
Pointing to a small 20+ person 1kpt tournament with no restrictions a week after the codex drops and claiming look guards aren't overpowered because they didn't win vs a double primarch list is beyond ignorant. Fact is everyone who has a clue knows this codex is the strongest army in the game right now. We are not going to convince someone like you and it's to late for gw to fix it until chapter approved which sadly iprobably already heading to print for December release. We are at the tail end of tourney season but I think we might see some adjustments in chapter approved based on player feedback of the conscript, scion, plasma cost changes were any indication of community feedback. And I believe you were defending conscripts and plasma then too lol.
2017/10/15 15:39:07
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
Yeah, the guard list that took zero conscripts or scions. People are so seething with rage they don't even know what's "overpowered." They just know that SOMETHING is overpowered. Or EVERYTHING. And that's problem enough.
And by the way I suggested conscripts and plasma scions get nerfed (my suggestion for plasma scions was apparently too harsh for some people).
Get a hold of yourself.
Or, you know, don't. My suggestion for you is the same as for Yoda. Don't enjoy the game? Stop playing. It's not for you.
2017/10/15 15:49:16
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
ThePorcupine wrote: Reasonable discussion? The dude lives for hyperbole. He even suggested people not play or buy their codex to protest GW. What reasonable discussion do you think can come out of him?
Many many people on this forum have a huge hate boner for armies they don't like; armies they perceive to be better than their army. Guard got a shiny new codex and he expected them to sweep every tournament. But lo and behold they're simply competitive, just like chaos, just like marines, just like sisters of battle, and harlequins, and even friggin' ORKS. If those tournament results show anything, it's a very HEALTHY competitive scene. One list isn't dominating everything. In fact, no list is the same. That's incredible! Now are all armies represented? Unfortunately no. And that's a shame, but it's a hell of a lot better than it's been in the past.
So since he couldn't reasonably rant about Guard being OP, he redirects his anger with some non-sensical "community is too tolerant and doesn't demand serious codexes!" rant. Like... what? Community doesn't demand serious codexes? What the hell does that even mean? The community was absolutely doing that. There were numerous threads about what the most OP units are and ideas on how to reign them in.
And, by the way, I think it's silly that the community was so enraged at OP russ tanks and superheavies but I don't see those in that tournament list.
<edit> As you can see, I'm a little riled up about this as well. I'm weary of people screaming that the sky is falling. The title of this very thread assumes that Guard is making a mess of tournaments. It's oh so tiring.
I will say what I want and I won't answer to you pleb. Nor anyone give you the right to proclaim you are better than anyone else or your opinion better. You should not be here junkie. And if you can't stop supporting junk then you are no good for any society. Learn to be demanding in your life but I guess from what I see you are just not worth it. Ignored . And that goes to anyone that don't like it . Mute or don't read. We are not all the same !!
2017/10/15 16:24:54
Subject: What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
Yoda79 wrote: I will say what I want and I won't answer to you pleb. Nor anyone give you the right to proclaim you are better than anyone else or your opinion better. You should not be here junkie. And if you can't stop supporting junk then you are no good for any society. Learn to be demanding in your life but I guess from what I see you are just not worth it. Ignored . And that goes to anyone that don't like it . Mute or don't read. We are not all the same !!
This is definitely not the appropriate tone for this forum. Seriously dude, learn some manners before you post.
2017/10/15 16:54:34
Subject: Re:What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?
GhostRecon wrote: Other dominant lists I've seen from other tourneys that occurred this weekend (though they were only 3 rounds):
SoCal Open Primer was won by Brandon Grant using a Conscript spam (iirc he won the NOVA Open too, using a similar list) - list.
Lords of War 15 was won by a Malefic Lord spamming Renegades and Heretics list.
Anyone know any of the entries from the ongoing first heat of the GT in nottingham? The only lists I know of are the ones from GW employees that are taking part.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
