The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within

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**Xenomancers**

Complete failure on all accounts.

Spoiler:

No explaination of who Rey is (parents are junk traders?) okay...
No explaination of who Snoke is (He's just all powerful and evil and leading this new first order thing (which also isn't explained as to why it is so powerful) but at the same time he totally weak - defeated by simple force trick)
Lots of characters existing without needing to exist.
If Darthmaul was a cool character who didn't get enough character development then phasma is a not cool character that got no character development.
The resistance is too weak to be considered a threat (there must actually be some other active resistance more capable of facing this awesome force that shouldn't even exist called the new order - can we do a story about those guys?)
Laser cannons have arcs in space? (I admit it looks cool but none the less - guns should not arc in space this is a big no no)
If driving a cruiser in hyperspace is so effective at destroying entire fleets...why don't we just hyperspace the ships running out of fuel into the giant fleet coming behind us?(oh yeah because we are stupid - I guess inertia is a thing and not a thing at the exact same time - this is fail science.)
Random appearance of r2. Nothing can change my mind R2...(hologram) Alright...that was a low blow.
Random non appearance of Obiwan...Anaken....
Terrible plot...special mission to shut down the tracking device...plan fails...complete waste of time.
Benicio Del Toro - how did he get involved in this mess? Completely forced character that didn't need to exist - on a mission that didn't need to exist....my gosh.
Kylo Ren....I don't even know what to say about this terrible character other than he is terrible and I can't believe this is the best they could do with him.
There sure are lots of female commanders...I mean...the male leadership is almost non existent for the rebels - theory one (this film was hijacked by a feminist group)
Rey - The film it's-self said she had no part to play in this saga. Where would we be without a Heroine front and center and the best part is - though she is nobody - she is also the wisest character in the movie. Except for maybe Ghost Yoda.

The only saving grace of this film is the love of Poe Dameron for Rd8 - love me some droid love - and Rd8 comic releif is actually very much needed because it is crap.
Anyways...I know people will still say phantom menace is worse but that is just hilarious to me if you think that. Phantom menace puts this movie to shame. If you just remove Jar Jar binks from phantom menace you'd be left with a great film. To remove the parts I didn't like from last Jedi I'd be left with a short series of Rd8 clips.
That's what I think anyways.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

I have been asked as to how I would have handled Han Solo in these new films, and the answer is simple:

The plot would have had the heroes end up on the planet where Solo and Leia are retired. The heroes would have had to be rescued from some danger, thus giving Solo one last scene of being a bad ass.

Everybody goes to Han's house for Sunday dinner. The plot moves on from a result of info from Solo. The heroes try to persuade Solo to come with him. He refuses. I've done my bit, I'm too old, it's your fight etc etc etc

The heroes leave, and as they head out the door, Solo tosses them the keys to the Falcon, wishes them luck, and the baton is passed on to the new generation.

Yeah, hardly original, but perfectly fits with Star Wars, and leaves everybody warm and fuzzy inside.

And infinitely preferable to the sack of gak that we did get.

**trexmeyer**

Xenomancers wrote:
Complete failure on all accounts.

Spoiler:

No explaination of who Rey is (parents are junk traders?) okay...
No explaination of who Snoke is (He's just all powerful and evil and leading this new first order thing (which also isn't explained as to why it is so powerful) but at the same time he totally weak - defeated by simple force trick)
Lots of characters existing without needing to exist.
If Darthmaul was a cool character who didn't get enough character development then phasma is a not cool character that got no character development.
The resistance is too weak to be considered a threat (there must actually be some other active resistance more capable of facing this awesome force that shouldn't even exist called the new order - can we do a story about those guys?)
Laser cannons have arcs in space? (I admit it looks cool but none the less - guns should not arc in space this is a big no no)
If driving a cruiser in hyperspace is so effective at destroying entire fleets...why don't we just hyperspace the ships running out of fuel into the giant fleet coming behind us?(oh yeah because we are stupid - I guess inertia is a thing and not a thing at the exact same time - this is fail science.)
Random appearance of r2. Nothing can change my mind R2...(hologram) Alright...that was a low blow.
Random non appearance of Obiwan...Anaken....
Terrible plot...special mission to shut down the tracking device...plan fails...complete waste of time.
Benicio Del Toro - how did he get involved in this mess? Completely forced character that didn't need to exist - on a mission that didn't need to exist....my gosh.
Kylo Ren....I don't even know what to say about this terrible character other than he is terrible and I can't believe this is the best they could do with him.
There sure are lots of female commanders...I mean...the male leadership is almost non existent for the rebels - theory one (this film was hijacked by a feminist group)
Rey - The film it's-self said she had no part to play in this saga. Where would we be without a Heroine front and center and the best part is - though she is nobody - she is also the wisest character in the movie. Except for maybe Ghost Yoda.

The only saving grace of this film is the love of Poe Dameron for Rd8 - love me some droid love - and Rd8 comic releif is actually very much needed because it is crap.
Anyways...I know people will still say phantom menace is worse but that is just hilarious to me if you think that. Phantom menace puts this movie to shame. If you just remove Jar Jar binks from phantom menace you'd be left with a great film. To remove the parts I didn't like from last Jedi I'd be left with a short series of Rd8 clips.
That's what I think anyways.

The entire point of Finn and Rose's "mission" was too fail because sometimes heroes DO fail. It also gives us fallible characters in that those two+Poe thought they knew better and were promptly proven wrong.

Rey does have a part to play and she's hardly the wisest seeing how Kylo deceived her...to some extent. If anything she has the wisdom of children in that her views are not jaded by any knowledge of the galaxy. She has the youthful optimism that Luke once had.

Most of what you wrote is either simply opinion, you angry that they didn't do your movie, or simply not getting it.

I'm glad they dropped a freaking rock on the fandom's head.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Hear hear!

As I've said a couple of times - this is a family movie. It's not something custom made to please neckbeards, and never will be.

And yes, I do include myself as a neckbeard. On account I have both constituent parts.

**Xenomancers**

trexmeyer wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Complete failure on all accounts.

Spoiler:

No explaination of who Rey is (parents are junk traders?) okay...
No explaination of who Snoke is (He's just all powerful and evil and leading this new first order thing (which also isn't explained as to why it is so powerful) but at the same time he totally weak - defeated by simple force trick)
Lots of characters existing without needing to exist.
If Darthmaul was a cool character who didn't get enough character development then phasma is a not cool character that got no character development.
The resistance is too weak to be considered a threat (there must actually be some other active resistance more capable of facing this awesome force that shouldn't even exist called the new order - can we do a story about those guys?)
Laser cannons have arcs in space? (I admit it looks cool but none the less - guns should not arc in space this is a big no no)
If driving a cruiser in hyperspace is so effective at destroying entire fleets...why don't we just hyperspace the ships running out of fuel into the giant fleet coming behind us?(oh yeah because we are stupid - I guess inertia is a thing and not a thing at the exact same time - this is fail science.)
Random appearance of r2. Nothing can change my mind R2...(hologram) Alright...that was a low blow.
Random non appearance of Obiwan...Anaken....
Terrible plot...special mission to shut down the tracking device...plan fails...complete waste of time.
Benicio Del Toro - how did he get involved in this mess? Completely forced character that didn't need to exist - on a mission that didn't need to exist....my gosh.
Kylo Ren....I don't even know what to say about this terrible character other than he is terrible and I can't believe this is the best they could do with him.
There sure are lots of female commanders...I mean...the male leadership is almost non existent for the rebels - theory one (this film was hijacked by a feminist group)
Rey - The film it's-self said she had no part to play in this saga. Where would we be without a Heroine front and center and the best part is - though she is nobody - she is also the wisest character in the movie. Except for maybe Ghost Yoda.

The only saving grace of this film is the love of Poe Dameron for Rd8 - love me some droid love - and Rd8 comic releif is actually very much needed because it is crap.
Anyways...I know people will still say phantom menace is worse but that is just hilarious to me if you think that. Phantom menace puts this movie to shame. If you just remove Jar Jar binks from phantom menace you'd be left with a great film. To remove the parts I didn't like from last Jedi I'd be left with a short series of Rd8 clips.
That's what I think anyways.

The entire point of Finn and Rose's "mission" was too fail because sometimes heroes DO fail. It also gives us fallible characters in that those two+Poe thought they knew better and were promptly proven wrong.

Rey does have a part to play and she's hardly the wisest seeing how Kylo deceived her...to some extent. If anything she has the wisdom of children in that her views are not jaded by any knowledge of the galaxy. She has the youthful optimism that Luke once had.

Most of what you wrote is either simply opinion, you angry that they didn't do your movie, or simply not getting it.

I'm glad they dropped a freaking rock on the fandom's head.

In the process of dropping a rock on the fandoms head they are destroying something great by not realizing why it was great. That's not the only problem ether...It seems they have forgoten how to make a movie / devolve a character / not make plot holes.

**Kaiyanwang**

trexmeyer wrote:

The entire point of Finn and Rose's "mission" was too fail because sometimes heroes DO fail. It also gives us fallible characters in that those two+Poe thought they knew better and were promptly proven wrong.

Rey does have a part to play and she's hardly the wisest seeing how Kylo deceived her...to some extent. If anything she has the wisdom of children in that her views are not jaded by any knowledge of the galaxy. She has the youthful optimism that Luke once had.

Most of what you wrote is either simply opinion, you angry that they didn't do your movie, or simply not getting it.

I'm glad they dropped a freaking rock on the fandom's head.

I think you described my biggest issue with these movies. They are a very well executed SW meta-commentaries.
But they are awful SW movies.
Look at what you wrote about Finn and Rose. Is meta. Nothing to do with the characters and their role within the story.
They put them in their containment plot because they had to.
Is like Phasma. Never seen something so pointless. They HAD to have her do... something. Is a clear filler.

**trexmeyer**

It's not pointless. You think it's pointless because you're entirely fixated on the end and not the process.

**Voss**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I have been asked as to how I would have handled Han Solo in these new films, and the answer is simple:

The plot would have had the heroes end up on the planet where Solo and Leia are retired. The heroes would have had to be rescued from some danger, thus giving Solo one last scene of being a bad ass.

Everybody goes to Han's house for Sunday dinner. The plot moves on from a result of info from Solo. The heroes try to persuade Solo to come with him. He refuses. I've done my bit, I'm too old, it's your fight etc etc etc

The heroes leave, and as they head out the door, Solo tosses them the keys to the Falcon, wishes them luck, and the baton is passed on to the new generation.

Yeah, hardly original, but perfectly fits with Star Wars, and leaves everybody warm and fuzzy inside.

And infinitely preferable to the sack of gak that we did get.

That's honestly really terrible, even for back of the napkin plotting. Even worse than being murdered for being a deadbeat dad- at least that had some coherence with the overall story.
If that scenario is the extent of what you can come up with for an old character, you're better off not bringing them back at all.
Not sure what it has to do with the new film, either.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Voss wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I have been asked as to how I would have handled Han Solo in these new films, and the answer is simple:

The plot would have had the heroes end up on the planet where Solo and Leia are retired. The heroes would have had to be rescued from some danger, thus giving Solo one last scene of being a bad ass.

Everybody goes to Han's house for Sunday dinner. The plot moves on from a result of info from Solo. The heroes try to persuade Solo to come with him. He refuses. I've done my bit, I'm too old, it's your fight etc etc etc

The heroes leave, and as they head out the door, Solo tosses them the keys to the Falcon, wishes them luck, and the baton is passed on to the new generation.

Yeah, hardly original, but perfectly fits with Star Wars, and leaves everybody warm and fuzzy inside.

And infinitely preferable to the sack of gak that we did get.

That's honestly really terrible, even for back of the napkin plotting. Even worse than being murdered for being a deadbeat dad- at least that had some coherence with the overall story.
If that scenario is the extent of what you can come up with for an old character, you're better off not bringing them back at all.
Not sure what it has to do with the new film, either.

I was making the point that both Luke and Han have been so badly handled, that somebody deserves to be hauled in front of The Hague for this outrage.

And yeah, it was back of the napkin stuff

**Kaiyanwang**

trexmeyer wrote:
It's not pointless. You think it's pointless because you're entirely fixated on the end and not the process.

I am sorry but this is a completely void statement. It means nothing.

**Tamereth**

Wow totally don't understand the hate for this film. It was awesome.

People seem to forgot that the original trilogy is pretty light hearted, c3po and r2-d2 are comic relief most of the time.

There are some awesome set pieces in this film, and it is visually stunning. They also don't follow the path everyone was expecting. Kylo being redeemed would have been so dull, he followed the sith way, by killing his master.

It answered a bunch of questions left by the force awakens, and leaves a bunch of new ones to be answered.

**trexmeyer**

Kaiyanwang wrote:
trexmeyer wrote:
It's not pointless. You think it's pointless because you're entirely fixated on the end and not the process.

I am sorry but this is a completely void statement. It means nothing.

Really? You can't understand that? You can't see how Rose, Finn, and Poe all grew as characters and learned from their mistakes? You're obsessed with the fact their plan failed.

Better not watch A Bridge Too Far.

**Riquende**

Thought experiment: Take Finn and Rose out of the movie entirely. What does that get us? Well, we might hit a swift 2 hour run time, and nobody betrays the Resistance transports (so you might have to tweak that bit to allow the FO to follow).

They literally do nothing useful for this film. They (and not only they) are bloat and filler.

**Xenomancers**

Tamereth wrote:
Wow totally don't understand the hate for this film. It was awesome.

People seem to forgot that the original trilogy is pretty light hearted, c3po and r2-d2 are comic relief most of the time.

There are some awesome set pieces in this film, and it is visually stunning. They also don't follow the path everyone was expecting. Kylo being redeemed would have been so dull, he followed the sith way, by killing his master.

It answered a bunch of questions left by the force awakens, and leaves a bunch of new ones to be answered.

What questions did it answer? I think it answered nothing. It hints at a few things but answers none of the big questions.
#1 - Why is the resistance so weak? What do they actually resist? The other side is why is the first order so strong?
#2 - Who is snoke? This trilogy is impossible without him. Yet - we learned nothing about him and now hes dead.
#3 - Rey - unexplained.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Or Blake's 7 for that matter.

The Poe/Finn plan is about them finding out you can just punch/cunning your way out of every situation. I felt it raised the stakes and the tension really nicely. Indeed, had it not been for the trailer showing Finn piloting the Ski Speeder, I'd have been seriously wondering how he was to get out of that one.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xenomancers wrote:
Tamereth wrote:
Wow totally don't understand the hate for this film. It was awesome.

People seem to forgot that the original trilogy is pretty light hearted, c3po and r2-d2 are comic relief most of the time.

There are some awesome set pieces in this film, and it is visually stunning. They also don't follow the path everyone was expecting. Kylo being redeemed would have been so dull, he followed the sith way, by killing his master.

It answered a bunch of questions left by the force awakens, and leaves a bunch of new ones to be answered.

What questions did it answer? I think it answered nothing. It hints at a few things but answers none of the big questions.
#1 - Why is the resistance so weak? What do they actually resist? The other side is why is the first order so strong?
#2 - Who is snoke? This trilogy is impossible without him. Yet - we learned nothing about him and now hes dead.
#3 - Rey - unexplained.

#1 - Read 'Aftermath' and 'Bloodlines'. These set out the political backdrop of the New Republic.
#2 - He's The Emperor's successor. Again, read 'Aftermath' to know more about what happened post-Endor (Empire's End is really the salient book there)
#3 - What's to explain? She's a nobody. She serves to demonstrate you don't need to be a Skywaker to be strong in the force. And arguably, she will turn out to be the Chosen One after all.

**Vaktathi**

Watched it last night, I basically felt like I'd just watched "Marvel's Star Wars" or "Avengers: Galactic War".

Lots of pretty special effects driven action and theatrically choreographed fight scenes, relatively unsubtle and incoherent plot with more DeusExMachinas than you can shake a stick at, and lots of somewhat hamfisted camp.

Probably about what I should have expected.

Still have no idea who the hell Snoke or the First Order are relative to the Empire, what happened to the rest of the empire after Palpatine, or basically anything between Ep 6 and 7.

Apparently its covered in books and whatnot, but I really dont care enough to go out and buy and read books just to make a movie make sense.

It was fun for turning your brain off and watching pretty booms, they did a good job there, but they could have cut an hour out of the movie to hit that.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

But did you enjoy it?

**Kaiyanwang**

trexmeyer wrote:
Kaiyanwang wrote:
trexmeyer wrote:
It's not pointless. You think it's pointless because you're entirely fixated on the end and not the process.

I am sorry but this is a completely void statement. It means nothing.

Really? You can't understand that? You can't see how Rose, Finn, and Poe all grew as characters and learned from their mistakes? You're obsessed with the fact their plan failed.

Better not watch A Bridge Too Far.

I don't see them grow a characters because they are not even characters. See Finn, as an example.
Do you think that this is a well developed ex-stormtrooper? His conflict and the actions, the indoctrinations received, the interactions with the characters were absolutely inappropriate for such background. He could have been a very interesting characters but they transformed him in a quippy tagalong 10 minutes within the first movie.
And this is why his confrontations with Phasma fall flat. We cannot feel anything with a character like this.

Also, the subplot in EP VIII is a genuine derailment, it has a basic problem on the narrative standpoint. Failure as a theme is very interesting but it must be well built into the framework of the movie. This did not happen here.
Also, very, very please, don't try to play the pseudo intellectual card using a 1977 movie to create an angry neckbeard strawman. Better not to go in that direction, my man. The movie has problem in basic continuity, stuff a noob film student would not make.

**welshhoppo**

I would like to point out, that if you have to do background reading to properly understand a movie. The movie is doing a bad job of telling the story.

**Riquende**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

#2 - He's The Emperor's successor. Again, read 'Aftermath' to know more about what happened post-Endor (Empire's End is really the salient book there)

I've read it and don't remember Snoke in it?

Oh, and I love Blakes 7. I don't love this.

**Xenomancers**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Or Blake's 7 for that matter.

The Poe/Finn plan is about them finding out you can just punch/cunning your way out of every situation. I felt it raised the stakes and the tension really nicely. Indeed, had it not been for the trailer showing Finn piloting the Ski Speeder, I'd have been seriously wondering how he was to get out of that one.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xenomancers wrote:
Tamereth wrote:
Wow totally don't understand the hate for this film. It was awesome.

People seem to forgot that the original trilogy is pretty light hearted, c3po and r2-d2 are comic relief most of the time.

There are some awesome set pieces in this film, and it is visually stunning. They also don't follow the path everyone was expecting. Kylo being redeemed would have been so dull, he followed the sith way, by killing his master.

It answered a bunch of questions left by the force awakens, and leaves a bunch of new ones to be answered.

What questions did it answer? I think it answered nothing. It hints at a few things but answers none of the big questions.
#1 - Why is the resistance so weak? What do they actually resist? The other side is why is the first order so strong?
#2 - Who is snoke? This trilogy is impossible without him. Yet - we learned nothing about him and now hes dead.
#3 - Rey - unexplained.

#1 - Read 'Aftermath' and 'Bloodlines'. These set out the political backdrop of the New Republic.
#2 - He's The Emperor's successor. Again, read 'Aftermath' to know more about what happened post-Endor (Empire's End is really the salient book there)
#3 - What's to explain? She's a nobody. She serves to demonstrate you don't need to be a Skywaker to be strong in the force. And arguably, she will turn out to be the Chosen One after all.

I read a lot of starwars books that officially didn't happen now. I'm never reading a starwars book again. The emperor can't have a successor anyways - he had vader and vader killed him. Sith lords only have 1 apprentice at a time - that is kind of their thing. In any case - you shouldn't have to read books to watch a movie.

**Kaiyanwang**

Tamereth wrote:
Wow totally don't understand the hate for this film. It was awesome.

People seem to forgot that the original trilogy is pretty light hearted, c3po and r2-d2 are comic relief most of the time.

"lighthearted" does not mean "badly build".
Also, the originals have light-hearted moments but the mood of the single scenes is appropriate. Luke does not start to quip after he sees his uncle charred body.
In TFA, Poe says the "who talks first?" line on the scene of a massacre. The tone is completely off.
Also, in a typical J.J. and Marvel style, this kind of lines are very self-aware and meta. If these are family movies, they should focus on keep the kids within the movie, and not wink to older people almost to say "still fan of an old space opera, what a nerd AMRITE?".

They look clever but they are horrible. They break an illusion. And I reiterate this - these are "meta" movies. The target is not kids, the target is the older audience. If you target something to kids, you don't make the movie self-aware that is a movie. Is horribly cynical.

**Mr Morden**

Riquende wrote:
Thought experiment: Take Finn and Rose out of the movie entirely. What does that get us? Well, we might hit a swift 2 hour run time, and nobody betrays the Resistance transports (so you might have to tweak that bit to allow the FO to follow).

They literally do nothing useful for this film. They (and not only they) are bloat and filler.

Is that along the lines of the "Indiana Jones does not matter in the Raiders of the Lost Ark film" argument from Big Bang

**Xenomancers**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But did you enjoy it?

Did I enjoy? First scene was enjoyable. Watching cruiser hyper suicide into snoke's ship looked awesome even if it makes no sense. Always enjoy watching the Millennium Falcon fly through tight tunnels. I actually liked the 3 minutes of fame snoke got in the film - wish there was more snoke.

I don't feel like my money was stolen from me - It was too long for sure. So I guess I should just say I enjoyed parts of it.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I was meaning Vakthai, as he gave comments but no conclusion

**VictorVonTzeentch**

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

8. Holdo punching the Raddus through the First Order fleet at lightspeed was one of the coolest things I've ever seen in a Star Wars movie.

The Raddus crippling Snoke's ship was cool. it some how also killing every Star Destroyer, even those that weren't even in a position to receive fragmentation was not. Plus, if you can just hyperdrive straight through strong shields and the shield of other Ships with the backblast, why even bother with blasters, surely you can have Hyperspace Guns.

All and all I'm not even sure what to think about the movie. I liked parts, Reylo, Poe, Dreadnaught Captain, Luke, Benicio Del Toro. But I disliked alot of parts as well, Leia (just in general as much as I hate to say it), Benicio Del Toro being under utilized, Poe and Hux's Marvel interactions in the start of the movie, Admiral Holden (not because she was the wall for Poe to run into, but because I felt like they should of had her and Poe grow to trust one another, rather than sacrificing herself), Too much humor, the stupid horse chase thing on Casino World, The stupid bird things from Luke's Island, Snoke being pretty much irrelevant (though i did like him).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

#1 - Read 'Aftermath' and 'Bloodlines'. These set out the political backdrop of the New Republic.

Which still doesnt really make sense. And as has been said the average view shouldnt need to read the books,

#2 - He's The Emperor's successor. Again, read 'Aftermath' to know more about what happened post-Endor (Empire's End is really the salient book there)

Snoke has nothing to do with that book series at all, infact hes not even mentioned.

#3 - What's to explain? She's a nobody. She serves to demonstrate you don't need to be a Skywaker to be strong in the force. And arguably, she will turn out to be the Chosen One after all.

Im fine with her being a nobody.

**Vaktathi**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I was meaning Vakthai, as he gave comments but no conclusion

eh, I enjoyed some parts, but ultimately I walked away feeling like I watched a reskin of The Avengers with an extra hour tacked on, and, more to the point I guess, have no real desire or interest in watching whatever comes next.

The remaining characters are not particularly compelling to me nor seemingly particularly rooted to any of those that came before and that hooked me in the earlier movies, the story presented was extremely garbled and delivered in a way that just didn't click for me (especially the campy elements) and there's just not much about the story that drives me to find out what happens next.

I went into this movie avoiding all trailers, all spoilers, anything that would give anything away, and after that, I just dont think ill care when the next one rolls around. Ill see whatever comes out next, but itll be a torrent months after release thing for me, not an opening night theater event.

**Tamereth**

Ray's parents being nobodies is a good thing.

Everybody wants to be a Jedi, but then we find out lukes only going to be one because his father was. Then we find out his father is darth Vader, then we find out his father was an immaculate conception of the force.
Now we're back to anybody can be force sensitive, you don't have to be a bloody godly skywalker.

I'm not saying the film is flawless by any means. Leia's Superman impression in space wasn't done well. And finn's story does feel a bit bloaty. Like they wrote the first draft then realized they needed something for him to do other than be in a coma.

I also would have liked a bit of background for snoke, but is it really needed. He's an evil powerful sith lord. End of.

Given time I'm sure we'll get films that fill in the gap between rotj and tfa, but the factured empires' factions fighting each other / the new republic has been done 1000's of times in other media over the last 30 years. I like that this is new, and is set a good time jump from the originals to make the original cast members age make sense.

I need to get a poster of the supremacy death scene, that looked super gorgeous.

**Kaiyanwang**

Tamereth wrote:

I also would have liked a bit of background for snoke, but is it really needed. He's an evil powerful sith lord. End of.

I think that what happened with Snoke is a huge giveaway of one (or both) of these scenarios

I) They have no plan and they are making up stuff along the way. That is, in part, what the old creators did, too, but I have to acknowledge that there are many ways to create stuff along the way, with sensibly different levels of competence

II) They are not laying out the story along the lines of a message or archetype, but just for the sake of the shock value. In other words, now Star Wars is a TV series. The appeal is to the Game of Thrones crowd. a story littered with he corpses of the characters, not in function of their arcs or of a greater narrative, but because of the shock value associated.*

*EDIT: Addendum - even the internal consistency of the universe is sacrificed to the altar of shock value. See, as an example, the preposterous bullcrap pulled in TFA or TLJ with the light speed. Like the quips or the inconsistencies, they are slowly chipping away the suspension of disbelief. The magic. And you cannot have a kid movie without this kind of magic.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tamereth wrote:
Ray's parents being nobodies is a good thing.

I think that people "required" Rey to be a Skywalker, fanwank notwithstanding, because of her very quick "Sue-ish" rapid development in TFA. Others supposed an amnesia or something. I remember very well my friends coming up with these theories when I went back then, and I found them everywhere.

A force sensitive out of the blue makes sense - after all, is what all the non-skywalkers in the saga are implied to be. But *Rey* specifically is problematic as a character, more so without one of these possible backgrounds (or another on that way).

**Xenomancers**

Force sensitive out of the blue is fine. It's actually what I was expecting. The flashbacks of the being left on Jaku by someone who could easily have been luke. Kaiyanwang I think has it right. They are making it up as it goes along - taking poll about what people what to happen and then picking the result that is the most shocking in a game of thrones type way. I didn't like game of thrones for the same reason.