The Last Jedi - Movie Discussion - WARNING - Guaranteed Spoilers Within

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**Compel**

Spoiler:

Hopefully noone should be making fun of the DC CW shows after this film, at least...

**Ahtman**

Apparently there is a bit of a reference to all this in Rogue One.

Spoiler:

**kronk**

Saw it Friday.

Meh.

Rogue 1 is way better

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

kronk wrote:
Saw it Friday.

Meh.

Rogue 1 is way better

but dat Throne Room battle tho...

**ZergSmasher**

I just saw the movie this afternoon and I thought it was good, but not great. Just like TFA. It does leave me wondering where they will go with Episode IX, though.

Spoiler:

**DeffDred**

Saw it this morning.
I was unimpressed. I had a hard time staying awake. Probably the most boring of the saga. Not as bad as episode one but pretty close.

Pros:

Spoiler:

Cons:

Spoiler:

**Voss**

Paradigm wrote:

Kylo and Rey are running parallel, both starting out as inexperienced and powerless in VII and both affirming their opposing allegiances in in VIII. To continue that, I expect both will rise to become exceptionally powerful in IX, both figureheads of their respective causes and supremely powerful with their side of the Force.

Questions.

What are their causes? This has bugged me for both the new films. The Resisty was separate from the Republic for... reasons, and the First Order was the cosplay Empire attacking the Resisty but also the Republic also for... reasons. But what does either faction actually support as a cause? What do they want in any way at all? Do they have any goals? Do the people working for them have any sort of expectation for what the galaxy will look like if they win? Does Ren have any particular goals in mind beyond 'be grandpa?' Did Rey pick up any personal desires beyond 'wait in a wasteland to be fetched' and, well, 'not be kidnapped?'

As for potentially exceptionally and supremely powerful figureheads (which is a bit confusing- if they're that powerful, why would they just be figureheads?)... what would either of them do? Just have a duel to the death for lack of anything better to do? Does TLJ set up anything to happen in episode 9? Are there stakes or goals still in play for anyone to pursue?

**Backfire**

kronk wrote:
Saw it Friday.

Meh.

Rogue 1 is way better

Don't get the love for Rogue1. It was watchable but everyone involved lacked charisma and the movie didn't really advance Star Wars lore in any way. Also ending, though very tense, was very contrived.

**Thargrim**

Yeah Rogue One had too much blatant fan service in there, some cringey characters like the IP man guy. They even throw in the friggin guys from the mos eisley cantina. I think potential for a good movie is there but it needs to be recut and remastered. Some stuff needs to be removed, including all of the moments with mr IP man chanting those lines over and over. The CG on Tarkin and Leia is unforgivably bad. Honestly these movies are going into parady pastiche territory real quick.

I think TLJ makes Rey a confirmed mary sue as well. There isn't even any debating it now.

**Lance845**

Thargrim wrote:
Yeah Rogue One had too much blatant fan service in there, some cringey characters like the IP man guy. They even throw in the friggin guys from the mos eisley cantina. I think potential for a good movie is there but it needs to be recut and remastered. Some stuff needs to be removed, including all of the moments with mr IP man chanting those lines over and over. The CG on Tarkin and Leia is unforgivably bad. Honestly these movies are going into parady pastiche territory real quick.

I think TLJ makes Rey a confirmed mary sue as well. There isn't even any debating it now.

The Rey is a Mary Sue crap is nonsense. If Rey is a Mary Sue then EVERYONE in starwars is a Mary Sue.

Anakin is a mary sue for randomly being the most powerful person on record or whatever. Then he murders a bunch of children, and then mary sues his way into force ghost jedi heaven because he protected his own kid. That totally makes up for the decades of murder and willfully participating in the killing of an entire planet.

Lukes a Mary Sue.

Han Solo, the biggest Mary Sue of all. His every character flaw is actually a benefit to him and everyone loves him even though hes basically a horrible drug dealing smuggling piece of gak of a person.

We follow these people as the main characters because they are exceptional. Following regular or crappy people would be boring.

Rey is no worse, and often better then the other protagonists in the other movies.

**Voss**

Oh, come on. She's an orphaned scavenger on a hell planet who is routinely shortchanged on basic rations to the point that she doesn't even bother to protest. She should be malnourished, half dead, scarred and generally look like she has skin the consistency of shoe leather.

Instead, she's
an engineering prodigy,
a crack pilot in space or atmosphere, doesn't matter, regardless of the lack of aerodynamics of a ship she's never flown before, doing maneuvers experienced pilots can't pull off in maneuverable fighters;
an expert staff fighter,
knows droid system language,
skilled climber,
can kill a man casually with her second ever shot with a pistol,
Effective light saber fighter, despite never touching one
And can learn complex Jedi mind tricks and other force abilities instantly as she needs them
And she's what... Twenty?

Yeah, doesn't fit a Mary Sue in any way at all.

Just like that 'not a bad pilot' farm boy who needed coaching (even through the climatic moment) and formal training and a fairly unsuccessful smuggler.

**Lance845**

Voss wrote:
Oh, come on. She's an orphaned scavenger on a hell planet who is routinely shortchanged on basic rations to the point that she doesn't even bother to protest. She should be malnourished, half dead, scarred and generally look like she has skin the consistency of shoe leather.

Instead, she's
an engineering prodigy,
a crack pilot in space or atmosphere, doesn't matter, regardless of the lack of aerodynamics of a ship she's never flown before, doing maneuvers experienced pilots can't pull off in maneuverable fighters;
an expert staff fighter,
knows droid system language,
skilled climber,
can kill a man casually with her second ever shot with a pistol,
Effective light saber fighter, despite never touching one
And can learn complex Jedi mind tricks and other force abilities instantly as she needs them
And she's what... Twenty?

Yeah, doesn't fit a Mary Sue in any way at all.

Just like that 'not a bad pilot' farm boy who needed coaching (even through the climatic moment) and formal training and a fairly unsuccessful smuggler.

Luke, an orphaned farmer on a crap planet who bulls eyes wamp rats in his t16 (apparently only about a meter big, a feat other trained pilots think is nigh impossible) a crack pilot and excellent gunner in a space dog fight despite never having left his gak planet. Knows droid language. Kills a bunch of trained storm troopers the first time he uses a gun in an actual fight. Able to hold his own with a light saber despite his only training being MAYBE a week on a ship in hyper space and not particularly intense training. Learns force tricks instantly as he needs them like shooting those proton torpedos into that shaft without a targetting computer.

Anakin, a slave kid who can speak droid language. Builds a protocol droid from scrap at the age of 7 (that droid is fluent in 6 million forms of communication, which implies that anakin is fluent in 6 million forms of communication since he programed that droid).. Ace pilot who takes out an entire trade federation space station on his own. (again age 7). Knows force tricks at age 7 and picks them up as he needs them. Capable of leaping out of vehicles falling hundreds of feet and landing without injury. etc etc...

The entire cast of starwars always, seem to be incapable of being hit by blasters or explosions from any trained elite troopers of a military order that brings the galaxy to it's knees.

That fairly unsuccessful smuggler takes out the galaxys most successful bounty hunter while blind.

A ship gets torn in half, the explosion takes out hundreds of people in a room wearing armor. The 2 people not wearing armor are unharmed. The people standing in litterally every direction around the unarmored unharmed people are all dead.

Again... it's no different from ANY other character in Starwars. They are all ridiculous. If your upset about Rey why are you NOT upset about Luke or Anakin? Finn? Poe? C3-PO? R2-D2? Han Solo? Yoda? Rose? The new splicer guy? Jar Jar Binks who accidentally wipes out a gak ton of droid soldiers without suffering a single scratch and then works his way into being a senator?

**AndrewGPaul**

I always assumed that Anakin built C-3PO from spares in Watto's junkyard; Impressive mechanical and electronic engineering, but it didn't imply to me that he programmed a protocol droid from scratch.

Still, I agree with the main thrust of your argument.

I like the porgs, though. I take it no-one in the Star Wars galaxy has laws about introducing invasive species?

**Paradigm**

Voss wrote:
Paradigm wrote:

Kylo and Rey are running parallel, both starting out as inexperienced and powerless in VII and both affirming their opposing allegiances in in VIII. To continue that, I expect both will rise to become exceptionally powerful in IX, both figureheads of their respective causes and supremely powerful with their side of the Force.

Questions.

What are their causes? This has bugged me for both the new films. The Resisty was separate from the Republic for... reasons, and the First Order was the cosplay Empire attacking the Resisty but also the Republic also for... reasons. But what does either faction actually support as a cause? What do they want in any way at all? Do they have any goals? Do the people working for them have any sort of expectation for what the galaxy will look like if they win? Does Ren have any particular goals in mind beyond 'be grandpa?' Did Rey pick up any personal desires beyond 'wait in a wasteland to be fetched' and, well, 'not be kidnapped?'

As for potentially exceptionally and supremely powerful figureheads (which is a bit confusing- if they're that powerful, why would they just be figureheads?)... what would either of them do? Just have a duel to the death for lack of anything better to do? Does TLJ set up anything to happen in episode 9? Are there stakes or goals still in play for anyone to pursue?

Their causes are self explanatory and have been from the start of TFA. The First Order are The Bad Guys who have significant military power, are in a stalemate with the Republic (inferred from the fact they'd not already been wiped out, they clearly have significant territory, fleet capacity and resources) and want to reinstate The Empire. The Resistance are the group actively standing against that in defence of The Republic.

Ren's goal is the acquisition of power for power's sake. Despite not being a Sith, nor holding the title Darth, he still stands by the tenets of Sith teachings (Passion> Strength> Power> Victory). In killing his Master, he becomes the Master (I doubt he'll take an apprentice, though I wouldn't be against it) and by stepping up to lead the First Order he gains power over swathes of the galaxy and the ability to bring the rest of it to heel shortly.

Rey's goal is a little more muddy. I imagine she'll give up any attempt to redeem Kylo now, he's too far gone, but she must still decide whether she wants to stay true to the ways of The Jedi despite Luke's warnings or become something new. With his sacrifice, Luke placed his renewed faith in her to continue the Jedi way while learning from its troubled history. Whether or not she does that is something we'll see in IX.

As for stakes going forward, there definitely are. The entire Rebellion now exists inside one beat-up old freighter. The First Order are weeks away from total control of the galaxy. The Last Jedi is gone. It's not a cliffhanger in the same way TFA was (which is good, as they don't need to pick up IX exactly where TLJ left off and can jump forward a bit) but the Good Guys are in a bind, the Bad Guys are ascendant and there's a lot of unfinished business. Rey and Kylo have a score to settle, we still don't know Leia's fate, Poe will have to step into his new responsibility as de-facto Rebel leader, Finn has to decide what he's going to become.... So yeah, there's plenty to look forward to.

Just because there are no 'mysteries' that can fuel 'CONFIRMED!!1!' videos on Youtube for the next two years, doesn't mean the story lacked stakes or failed to set up a fascinating third instalment.

**welshhoppo**

AndrewGPaul wrote:
I always assumed that Anakin built C-3PO from spares in Watto's junkyard; Impressive mechanical and electronic engineering, but it didn't imply to me that he programmed a protocol droid from scratch.

Still, I agree with the main thrust of your argument.

I like the porgs, though. I take it no-one in the Star Wars galaxy has laws about introducing invasive species?

Which only goes to show how much of an idiot Anakin is.

Oh wow you made a protocol droid to help your mother. She's a slave Anakin, what in the seven winds of the force is she going to need a protocol droid for?

**Paradigm**

chromedog wrote:

I also liked the little bit at the end with the kid. Showing that even absolute nobodies can be force users again

I loved that. To me, it's not just it's meaning in the film, it's a nod to every kid whose ever stood in the garden with a broom handle/torch//tinfoil tube/long stick and pretended it's a lightsaber (so, I'd like to think, basically every kid since 1977...

). It was also a nice shot to close the film on, as I think giving the final shot to a particular character like TFA did wouldn't have worked; people would attribute too much importance to that and I can't think any character 'deserved' the closing shot more than any other.

Though I'm sure The Internet will spend the next 2 years tying itself in knots trying to work out who That Kid is, given the lack of any other mystery!

**Totalwar1402**

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Paradigm wrote:
chromedog wrote:

Though I'm sure The Internet will spend the next 2 years tying itself in knots trying to work out who That Kid is, given the lack of any other mystery!

I don't think so at all for a few reasons.

* All the questions we had at the end of FA have either been proven to be unimportant.

* LJ does not raise any new questions.

Why will people ask new questions or do lore videos when Disney put so little thought into their own characters and story. Snokes just generic Mr Dark Side who comes out of nowhere, says a few lines and is promptly killed.

It proves that they are shallow story tellers. A Song of Ice and Fire this is not. So it confirms that there aren't complex reasons or well thought out explanations to any of this story. The First Order has ships because reasons. Snoke exists because reasons. The Republic didn't learn about the FO rearming because reasons. To Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams these things are irrelevant. Such shallow story telling is not worth analyzing or anybody's time.

Basically all the Star Wars geeks have just been slapped across the face by Disney and I don't see why after being so badly burned they'll go back to making theory videos when its clear they're just making stuff up as they go along.

**Peregrine**

The reason people are happy about Rey having ordinary parents is that, especially with the old EU, the sense of scale was really lacking. Everything involved the same planets and the same characters, with every person and event somehow related so that they could milk the cash cow of nostalgia instead of coming up with new ideas. Having Rey be Luke's daughter or whatever would have been a similar lack of imagination, that in a whole galaxy full of uncountably many people everyone of significance in a new story has to be related to the characters in the old one. But thankfully Disney found the courage to break the cycle and make new characters with their own stories to tell, who don't meet any cash-cow-milking nostalgia until they're established on their own. They did it with Poe, they did it with Finn, and now they've confirmed that the fan speculation was all nonsense and they did it with Rey.

Also, remember that the actual movie never hinted at Rey having important parents, that was entirely fan speculation. Nor is the revelation that her parents aren't major galactic figures. It's why they abandoned her. She comforted herself with the idea that her parents didn't really abandon her, that there was some greater cause that they were serving. They might be nobody, but at least they were good. But nope, she's on her own, there is no more comforting lie.

**Kaiyanwang**

Peregrine wrote:
The reason people are happy about Rey having ordinary parents is that, especially with the old EU, the sense of scale was really lacking. Everything involved the same planets and the same characters, with every person and event somehow related so that they could milk the cash cow of nostalgia instead of coming up with new ideas. Having Rey be Luke's daughter or whatever would have been a similar lack of imagination, that in a whole galaxy full of uncountably many people everyone of significance in a new story has to be related to the characters in the old one. But thankfully Disney found the courage to break the cycle and make new characters with their own stories to tell, who don't meet any cash-cow-milking nostalgia until they're established on their own. They did it with Poe, they did it with Finn, and now they've confirmed that the fan speculation was all nonsense and they did it with Rey.

Also, remember that the actual movie never hinted at Rey having important parents, that was entirely fan speculation. Nor is the revelation that her parents aren't major galactic figures. It's why they abandoned her. She comforted herself with the idea that her parents didn't really abandon her, that there was some greater cause that they were serving. They might be nobody, but at least they were good. But nope, she's on her own, there is no more comforting lie.

I think that having a force sensitive person randomly pop up is normal in the universe. Anakin, Yoda, all the Jedi of the prequels show no hint of having inherited such feature. Is a bit like the psychic powers in 40k, in a way. So, yeah. Is true that is nice that the fact that she is a "random" makes the galaxy bigger. I would argue that they did everything in every other aspect to make the galaxy smaller, but that's about it.
My problem is Rey as a character. She has shown a very fast development as a character, way faster (and not littered with continuous failure and need for help from friends) than Luke. She fixes the falcon, learn the force, speaks with droids and Chewbacca, beats in a swordfight a guy trained by luke skywalker. I see they are doing a continuous subversion of the usual tropes but this comes at the cost of logic.
When I pointed out the Sue-ish character of Rey, back then, people told me that in the next movie we would have seen either that she has Skywalker blood, or that she had her memory cancelled. "wait the next movie, it will make sense". I find such sentence almost insulting, but I waited. What we have now?
I would argue an even worse situation. For the sake of another subversion, we don't really feel the training as something Luke had with Yoda. I did not perceive a true mentoring. I don't see her struggle and fail like I did see with Luke.
Along with the fact that the background of Finn implies a completely different character, these are the things that, along with setting inconsistencies, characters and plot points with no beginning and/or no end, throw me out of the movie. It feels so artificial.
For Rey more than anything else, because I have the feeling that writers in general are unable to write proper modern female characters. Thay are either a damsel in distress or an action heroine too perfect end efficient compared to the male counterparts.
I miss a character like Ripley dearly.
For the life of me, I cannot understand all the praise.

**Totalwar1402**

Peregrine wrote:
The reason people are happy about Rey having ordinary parents is that, especially with the old EU, the sense of scale was really lacking. Everything involved the same planets and the same characters, with every person and event somehow related so that they could milk the cash cow of nostalgia instead of coming up with new ideas. Having Rey be Luke's daughter or whatever would have been a similar lack of imagination, that in a whole galaxy full of uncountably many people everyone of significance in a new story has to be related to the characters in the old one. But thankfully Disney found the courage to break the cycle and make new characters with their own stories to tell, who don't meet any cash-cow-milking nostalgia until they're established on their own. They did it with Poe, they did it with Finn, and now they've confirmed that the fan speculation was all nonsense and they did it with Rey.

Also, remember that the actual movie never hinted at Rey having important parents, that was entirely fan speculation. Nor is the revelation that her parents aren't major galactic figures. It's why they abandoned her. She comforted herself with the idea that her parents didn't really abandon her, that there was some greater cause that they were serving. They might be nobody, but at least they were good. But nope, she's on her own, there is no more comforting lie.

That's a huge mischaracterization of the EU. It added A LOT of new planets, species and locations in the Star Wars mythos. You also have plenty of new ideas like the Mandalorian Wars and Yuuzhang Vong to name a few. Take The Old Republic MMO. Yes, you do have a lot of worlds from the films. But you also have lots of new worlds like Belsavis, Drommund Kaas, Voss and Balmorra. I mean the Vong invasion is a multi book series detailing a galactic invasion, the EU did not lack for a sense of scale. If anything the new trilogy has been intensely parochial and narrow in scope boiling down to a few skirmishes in the Outer Rim; their wider implications only alluded to.

Which is my point. If your fans take a very keen interest in the character you don't slap them in the face. That sort of thing only tends to dampen peoples enthusiasm. Especially the way this is done in the film. It needlessly belabors the fact Rey is nobody and seems to set up something significant when she falls into the Dark Side well. That is purposeful misdirection and felt like it was aimed less at Rey and more at the audience.

We knew that they abandoned Rey because we see them fly off. It was not a meaningful revelation that they abandoned her. You actually see the abandonment. Rey never says they had a more complex reason for leaving. She simply says they'll be back. There really isn't a positive spin put on this by her.

You're saying we should respect Rey for being an ordinary person, like us who makes her own legend? Well:

1) Why should I sympathize with Rey for being an ordinary person? Nobody ever says "I like you because you're a perfectly average person". Its a meaningless concept. What we do is we qualify this with their character, where they come from, what they have done and basically do everything to pull that person from obscurity. So basically a hero cannot be an ordinary person by definition. So making Rey ordinary does nothing for her character.

2) Rey isn't like us. She has been chosen as a champion of the light by the force. They both haven't done enough to develop her character or through sloppy writing have rubbed me the wrong way. The intent is clearly, like Daenerys, that this is a powerful female character tempered by having a kind nature and an emotional vulnerability. However, she is simply made master at everything without ever even picking up a lightsaber; so her power is not something we are left in awe of but creates confusion. Her kind nature is lost in an attempt to make her look tough. Its one thing to pour scorn on Kylo Ren and belittle him, its another to do so to people on your own side. Whilst her emotional vulnerability like running off after Maz tells her about her vision and trying to redeem Kylo simply made her look foolish and that she cared more about herself or Kylo than the fate of everyone else in the galaxy. In fact it made her seem selfish and petty.

3) Rey hasn't made her own legend. Po blew up Starkiller base. Finn the first Stormtrooper to defect. Luke saves everyone on Krait. Leia leads the Resistance to safety. So far Rey has beaten a wounded emo, beat some red armoured stormtroopers and lifted some rocks. That's two films in which she hasn't done an awful lot. By this point Luke had blown up the Death Star, brought down two AT AT walkers, trained with Master Yoda, survived a fateful encounter with Darth Vader where his hand was chopped off. I am not saying Rey should be like Starkiller from Force Unleashed; but she really hasn't done an awful lot for all the complaining over her being OP. I have no doubt in the third film she will refound the Jedi Order, finally kill the emo and make her blue double bladed lightsaber to finally turn her into Satele Shan from The Old Republic MMO. So as of this film they have not made a legend of Rey.

**Kaiyanwang**

Paradigm wrote:

I loved that. To me, it's not just it's meaning in the film, it's a nod to every kid whose ever stood in the garden with a broom handle/torch//tinfoil tube/long stick and pretended it's a lightsaber (so, I'd like to think, basically every kid since 1977...

That's fine, but is a nod to adults that were those kids. Barring the fact that is another thing that puts you outside the movie, is time subtracted to adventure.
As a kid, I did not want to be a kid in that universe. I wanted to be Luke, Han, Lando (and the girls Leia).
What we have now in place of those four?

**Totalwar1402**

Kaiyanwang wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
The reason people are happy about Rey having ordinary parents is that, especially with the old EU, the sense of scale was really lacking. Everything involved the same planets and the same characters, with every person and event somehow related so that they could milk the cash cow of nostalgia instead of coming up with new ideas. Having Rey be Luke's daughter or whatever would have been a similar lack of imagination, that in a whole galaxy full of uncountably many people everyone of significance in a new story has to be related to the characters in the old one. But thankfully Disney found the courage to break the cycle and make new characters with their own stories to tell, who don't meet any cash-cow-milking nostalgia until they're established on their own. They did it with Poe, they did it with Finn, and now they've confirmed that the fan speculation was all nonsense and they did it with Rey.

Also, remember that the actual movie never hinted at Rey having important parents, that was entirely fan speculation. Nor is the revelation that her parents aren't major galactic figures. It's why they abandoned her. She comforted herself with the idea that her parents didn't really abandon her, that there was some greater cause that they were serving. They might be nobody, but at least they were good. But nope, she's on her own, there is no more comforting lie.

I think that having a force sensitive person randomly pop up is normal in the universe. Anakin, Yoda, all the Jedi of the prequels show no hint of having inherited such feature. Is a bit like the psychic powers in 40k, in a way. So, yeah. Is true that is nice that the fact that she is a "random" makes the galaxy bigger. I would argue that they did everything in every other aspect to make the galaxy smaller, but that's about it.
My problem is Rey as a character. She has shown a very fast development as a character, way faster (and not littered with continuous failure and need for help from friends) than Luke. She fixes the falcon, learn the force, speaks with droids and Chewbacca, beats in a swordfight a guy trained by luke skywalker. I see they are doing a continuous subversion of the usual tropes but this comes at the cost of logic.
When I pointed out the Sue-ish character of Rey, back then, people told me that in the next movie we would have seen either that she has Skywalker blood, or that she had her memory cancelled. "wait the next movie, it will make sense". I find such sentence almost insulting, but I waited. What we have now?
I would argue an even worse situation. For the sake of another subversion, we don't really feel the training as something Luke had with Yoda. I did not perceive a true mentoring. I don't see her struggle and fail like I did see with Luke.
Along with the fact that the background of Finn implies a completely different character, these are the things that, along with setting inconsistencies, characters and plot points with no beginning and/or no end, throw me out of the movie. It feels so artificial.
For Rey more than anything else, because I have the feeling that writers in general are unable to write proper modern female characters. Thay are either a damsel in distress or an action heroine too perfect end efficient compared to the male counterparts.
I miss a character like Ripley dearly.
For the life of me, I cannot understand all the praise.

I mean I get the impression that they are rolling with the idea that the force guides your blade and actions. So her amazing abilities is due to her connction to the force and is meant to clue us in that she is Force Sensitive.

HOWEVER, that's not how the force works. Luke was a prodigal knight, as was Anakin, but they still had to train and seek guidance of masters. You can still be a prodigy and have amazing natural talent; but the expectation is still that you need to practice and train. That sentiment comes from real life and I think it makes sense. But with Rey, as you point out, she is depicted as being a master at whatever she does and we're explicitly told she does not need any training. Within a few days she has went from not picking up a lightsaber to besting the big bad and killing several elite Praetorian Guard.

It all leads to the feeling that Rey has done nothing to earn or master these abilities on her own. Without the force she would be nothing.

**Paradigm**

Alternatively, Rey is just a very talented person? There exist, in real life, people who are exceptionally good at a large number of things, proficient in various fields moreso than most people would ever be.

Given a combination of her upbringing, where she'd have to learn to fight/repair/bluff to survive and maintain a constant mental fortitude to avoid just going mad alone in the desert, and her natural connection to the Force which appears to be very strong indeed, even passively, her level of competence is not hard to believe.

**Lord Scythican**

I thought The Force Awakens was decent but they played it too safe. The new one is just filled with many moments where you just throw your hands up in the air. Without being too specific (for now) here are my major gripes:

1. Plot holes, plot holes, plot holes!
2. Ignoring character development hinted at from VII
3. Women treating men like incompetent donkey-caves
4. 3 hour chase scene
5. Superman character
6. Fuel
7. Gravity in Space (those damn bombs)
8. Purple hair bitch in general
9. SJW themes
10. Characters killed off really badly
11. The entire Casino scene
12. Phasma
13. General Hux
14. Rey's lineage
15. Snoke's backstory
16. Knights of Ren
17. Luke was not Luke (Mark even agrees)
18. Titmilk
19. Curvature of lasers in space
20. The Resistance
21. ....I am tired of typing now.

**Totalwar1402**

Paradigm wrote:
Alternatively, Rey is just a very talented person? There exist, in real life, people who are exceptionally good at a large number of things, proficient in various fields moreso than most people would ever be.

Given a combination of her upbringing, where she'd have to learn to fight/repair/bluff to survive and maintain a constant mental fortitude to avoid just going mad alone in the desert, and her natural connection to the Force which appears to be very strong indeed, even passively, her level of competence is not hard to believe.

See my point above. Even a prodigy who can play the piano still needs to practice and have been taught at some point. This could all easily be resolved by spending a minute to show Rey learning stuff. I am actually a lot more likely to appreciate somebody who works to earn something and succeed than somebody who is just a master at everything.

Rey says she has never piloted a ship in her life and Snoke notes she has never held a lightsaber in her life. Yet is a total master managing to outfly Tie Fighter Pilots and beat the emo.

Reys choice of weapon is a quarterstaff. Why should we assume she has any proficiency with a sword? Much less one made of energy which is meant to be very difficult to master, as shown by Luke practicing on the Falcon.

**Xenomancers**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Have they actually killed Phasma off this time or are they going to pull another Houdini with her?

Might be amusing if she shows up in the next movie with charred silver armour, facial burns and an even more bruised ego.

Judging by how terrible these last 2 films have been with character development - I bet she does come back burned and chared from Ep 8 - only to die quickly in Ep9 with still 0 character development.

**kronk**

Backfire wrote:
kronk wrote:
Saw it Friday.

Meh.

Rogue 1 is way better

Don't get the love for Rogue1. It was watchable but everyone involved lacked charisma and the movie didn't really advance Star Wars lore in any way. Also ending, though very tense, was very contrived.

It didn't need to advance the star wars lore. It was a one off Star Wars Story. It was fast paced, had cool gak blowing up, and a spunky, sarcastic reprogrammed Imperial Droid.

**Totalwar1402**

Rogue One is like "War and Peace" compared to FA and TLJ. So gud.

**Lord Scythican**

Totalwar1402 wrote:
Rogue One is like "War and Peace" compared to FA and TLJ. So gud.

I disliked Rogue One previously, but after TLJ I find it to be a much better movie.

**Peregrine**

Lord Scythican wrote:
3. Women treating men like incompetent donkey-caves

Probably because they are exactly that. I mean, Finn and Poe aren't exactly impressing here...

9. SJW themes

Uh, what? I don't recall anything about that, unless you count "there are characters who aren't white men" as a SJW theme.