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JWBS wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The upside is the number of models for each Gang exceed what I'd expect for a starting Gang, so they allow for expansion.

Here, the only thing not completely new are the basic Enforcer models. Subjugators and Cultists are 100% new. ZM in plastic is of course new - but a rework of a previously resin thing,

Given the terrain is suitable for three systems (40k, HH and Necromunda) it's got an inherently wider appeal than AT (which is still a fine game) so may get decent sales figures.

Just wish we knew when the ZM walls and that were being released.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm...provided it's the same 15% discount as the existing Necromunda set, it's a considerably more palatable £148.75 from Element, with loadsa Crystals.

Now to raise the funds....

Isn't there some sort of rulebook here that many existing players don't want (and will stick to the older rules they've bought, which as I understand it is many books and supplements), or is all the rules stuff here new to this set?

Not a clue. When I looks, I just sees terrain.

All the terrain. All of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mind you, it's just a mat included, and not the plastic floor tiles.


Oh Gods of Nice Things, why do you taunt me so!

So about a thousand quid if you want a full sized table with tiles and decent wall coverage.

Yeah, 3D printing it is.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
4 tiles per box confirmed (so 2x2, as predicted by some, it would seem).

Again, apologies if the pic doesn't work, but we have UK prices:



That's £175 for the new box. Closest thing I can find on the UK site to that is the Cauldron Guard "bundle" for Daughters of Khaine. It's £170. The same "bundle" on the Oz website is $369, so we're looking at easily $380 for this one box.

If the mods don't mind too much, I can link to some online stores in Oz that sell lube?

Do you know what the lower price to the left is (what GW is charging retailers perhaps?.....)

Looks like it to me.

Yikes that is very pricey for the box. Even with discounts they're really pricing people out.

Element usually do 20% if you pre-order it. I’m very much on the fence with this. That’s an expensive box!

Element is the only way to go for non-UK peeps too as they have unconditional flat rate shipping. Wayland et al. won't honor free shipping on a box this big.

On the one hand, I'm empathetic that they're making this entirely out of plastic and so realistically how cheap can we expect them to make it.

On the other hand, were I making a zone mortalis table for heresy games, just buying the plastic tile to cover a 4x6 table is USD 360. I shudder to think what the cost would be once you added in all the wall terrain for coverage similar to that of the original resin terrain.

What's sad about that is my gut cynicism says that a table of this stuff will likely amount to a comparable price to the original resin terrain, which was itself an extremely niche product that likely didn't sell at a very high volume. Admittedly, the new terrain will probably be a cleaner product (I've read the original resin pieces were consistently heavily warped on delivery), but they'll also require a lot of assembly work.

Creality is currently selling the ender 3 for 180 USD. You could buy two and still save money over buying this terrain. Very well designed zone mortalis 3D model files are easily found online if you look.

phillv85 wrote:
Element usually do 20% if you pre-order it. I’m very much on the fence with this. That’s an expensive box!

It is stupidly expensive, and I already have a 3d printer that makes me walls.

Much in the same vein that I don't buy characters because I don't want to encourage GW to see those prices as rational, I won't buy this one either.

EDIT: I mean, hell, it might not be quite as nice, but...



...well, that I have already.

Well I can see why the FW was discontinued it would have been cheaper.

So based on the price list above and the minimum margin GW will accept then these boxes are costing about £30.00 for GW to make. Nice little earner there for the quarter, should be enough to pad the financials against the GMB from last year.

I remember getting 50% off back when I worked there, and they didn't sell us at cost, so...

Was hoping the leaked price was a mistake. Appears not then.

Was thinking I might be tempted - some nice terrain, and models that I don't have any particular use for now, although I'm sure I could have done something with them in the future. Appears not then.

What I truly don't understand is that...plastic terrain is neat, but we have dozens and dozens of companies who put out attractive MDF style terrain that is easily used for Necromunda, for...1/3 or less the cost of this new plastic stuff. Are people that desperate for GW plastic that money is no option? (I understand the answer is essentially...yes).

A lot of the MDF varies in quality, but with some paint and scatter terrain, you can have a solid table.

Just one example is this for $120:


Or this (essentially an entire table) for $200:


This is $100 (though you have to provide your own soda-cans!)


I just don't see the "must have" features of the GW plastic terrain.

PS: For the record, I don't own any of this stuff, they just had the easiest pictures to grab. TT Combat makes great stuff for far cheaper as well (even cheaper than Promethium Forge).

Unboxing article:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/04/necromunda-unboxing/

 Elbows wrote:
What I truly don't understand is that...plastic terrain is neat, but we have dozens and dozens of companies who put out attractive MDF style terrain that is easily used for Necromunda, for...1/3 or less the cost of this new plastic stuff. Are people that desperate for GW plastic that money is no option? (I understand the answer is essentially...yes).

A lot of the MDF varies in quality, but with some paint and scatter terrain, you can have a solid table.

A lot of people don't like working with MDF / think plastic is easier to work with, and MDF tends to break more - for example the GW Sector Mechanicus terrain at my local gaming club has never broken, but about half the TT Combat MDF stuff has.

I wouldn't buy that PF stuff for $120. That's a ridiculous price for MDF.

----

The 'Unboxing' is up... and they basically...don't.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/04/necromunda-unboxing/

You'd think they'd go over the details of the terrain sprues, but they don't do that- they just leave them piled up in all the pics except the very distant animated gif.

 Elbows wrote:
What I truly don't understand is that...plastic terrain is neat, but we have dozens and dozens of companies who put out attractive MDF style terrain that is easily used for Necromunda, for...1/3 or less the cost of this new plastic stuff. Are people that desperate for GW plastic that money is no option? (I understand the answer is essentially...yes).

Unfortunately, there's a large number of people who just will not touch a product that is not GW. This might be out of genuinely not knowing there's alternatives, but I'm continually amazed by how many do it out of honest brand loyalty.These are the same people who will gladly fork out £20 to buy Citadel(tm) clippers, will only buy from the GW webstore, etc.

In the case of Necromunda however, I think long-term this terrain is more meant for 40k/Kill-Team. They've decided to theme it as a Necromunda release to potentially shift more boxes of that game, but much like the Primaris-inspired designs of Enforcers, I see more people talking about it's potential use for 40k boards than Necromunda. It's audience tends to be a fair bit older and pretty much exclusively in LFGS/homes rather than GW stores, which means those people probably do already buy into MDF terrain or have made their own.

$230 3D printer. Might not be detailed enough for 28mm models but for terrain...

https://smile.amazon.com/Magic-Automatic-Aluminum-Filament-220x220x250mm/dp/B07PMJ723Y/ref=sr_1_2_sspa

 Elbows wrote:
What I truly don't understand is that...plastic terrain is neat, but we have dozens and dozens of companies who put out attractive MDF style terrain that is easily used for Necromunda, for...1/3 or less the cost of this new plastic stuff. Are people that desperate for GW plastic that money is no option? (I understand the answer is essentially...yes).

A lot of the MDF varies in quality, but with some paint and scatter terrain, you can have a solid table.

MDF breaks far more easily. But for me far more importantly, it doesn't capture the 40k aesthetic at all. Even the higher quality stuff generally still looks like cheap flat wood to me. And in the end I fell in love with 40k because of its looks. Also the reason why a flat gaming mat will never invoke the same feeling a fully sculpted table has, even if mats are easier to play with.

Paper mat? Not even one of the cardboard ones like from Kill Team or Warcry?

 Elbows wrote:
So, lazy people? Working with MDF is literally easier than plastic and I've never had any MDF terrain break despite owning...tons of it. I suppose maybe I'm just not a ham-fisted oaf?

I own a decent amount of MDF terrain, and there are some issues with MDF terrain.

The first is it soaks up water easily, so you have to seal it before you can prime it, as most gamers use water based primers and paints. The same problem arises if you try to use PVA glue without sealing it.

The second is that it's more difficult to glue together, as gluing large surfaces together with superglue/gorilla glue is a bit of a trial compared to working with plastics.

The third is that it has less surface detail/contour, which makes the go to fast techniques of shading and drybrushing less useful.

To top it off in that it looks very plain compared to most plastic and resin terrain, so to many gamers it can look quite 'cheap'. In many cases you could build similar terrain to MDF out of foamcore for a fraction of MDF's cost, so 'bargain' DIY terrain is just as good as MDF in many cases.

Overall, plastic terrain looks better, is more detailed and usually easier to put together and paint, so it's no surprise a lot of people prefer it. I've got resin, plastic, MDF and commercial modular foam core terrain and I prefer plastics overall.

looking at the gif, you get at least

2 of the stair sprues (top left, bottom right) doesn't look like any more of this one
3 of the 'cube' sprues (bottom left)
2 of the wall section sprue a (top right) maybe more
2 of the wall section sprue b (center below between 2 x a) maybe more
1 of the pipe sprue (below far right) doesn't look as if there's any more of this one
1 of the wide armoured door sprue (bottom pic, near middle) maybe 2
1 circular grill sprue (bottom pic near top) doesn't look like there are more



so 2 more to spot

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


looking at the gif, you get at least

2 of the stair sprues (top left, bottom right) doesn't look like any more of this one
3 of the 'cube' sprues (bottom left)
2 of the wall section sprue a (top right) maybe more
2 of the wall section sprue b (center below between 2 x a) maybe more
1 of the pipe sprue (below far right) doesn't look as if there's any more of this one
1 of the wide armoured door sprue (bottom pic, near middle) maybe 2
1 circular grill sprue (bottom pic near top) doesn't look like there are more

According to the last warhammer-community article there are 17 sprues of terrain, 15 of which are "Walls, Columns, Platforms, and Doors"

The two duplicate sprues are one sprue of plasma conduits and a sprue of necromunda barricades and objectives
Former on the far right of the pile, latter on the left behind the leftmost wall sprues

So would I be right in thinking not even enough to fill a set of the new plastic floor tiles?

SeanDrake wrote:
So would I be right in thinking not even enough to fill a set of the new plastic floor tiles?

Depends on your definition of 'fill'. A plastic floor tile set is going to be what, 2 feet by 2 feet? About the size of the playmat?

SeanDrake wrote:
So would I be right in thinking not even enough to fill a set of the new plastic floor tiles?

Well you can see exactly how much it fills up on the box pictures. The floor set is the same size as the paper mat in the box.

SeanDrake wrote:
So would I be right in thinking not even enough to fill a set of the new plastic floor tiles?

Define "fill"
Not enough to duplicate 4 Forgeworld Tiles (ie 2x2).
But enough to make areas [that are still playable] with more open space than (most) of those tiles had.

edit: clarification

 Arbitrator wrote:
Unfortunately, there's a large number of people who just will not touch a product that is not GW. This might be out of genuinely not knowing there's alternatives, but I'm continually amazed by how many do it out of honest brand loyalty.These are the same people who will gladly fork out £20 to buy Citadel(tm) clippers, will only buy from the GW webstore, etc.

When I worked at an FLGS we had a few customers like that. One guy in particular I'll never forget, didn't like to play but he LOVED to build and paint complete armies, refused to buy anything besides GW, absolutely refused to use non-GW materials or even tools. I couldn't even get him to use Kneadatite brand greenstuff, which was $16 for a 36" versus GW's greenstuff, $10 for 8". They are literally the same product, GW just puts their logo on kneadatite and re-sells it for triple+ the price, but without that GW logo he wouldn't touch it. GW glue, GW paint, GW tools, whole 9 yards. Still confuses me to this day, but they're like that.

I'd love to get that new terrain, but that is just WAY too much for it. I've used plenty of MDF in the past, it's not hard to work with once you know how (key is priming it with spray enamel instead of regular primer), but I'd MUCH rather work with HIPS. Just not at that price, yowzas!

it's hard to know how much each piece of the wall will measure, right?