Necromunda Underhive - House of Chains Pg272

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**Vorian**

Be thankful you've actually got yours. Mine has been delivered to some random address, signed for by someone I've never heard of.

A sad little Underhiver

**Hollow**

Da-Rock wrote:
MonkeyBallistic wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
I really like the new rules, and I plan to buy all the gang wars book, but it,'s obvious this will turn into a rule clustef**k where you have to carry a dozen books, each with a different trading post, and a few hired guns.

I'll also say that the fluff in the main book seems to be new. Though I hope thee next gang wars book will have more fluff cause the first one is pretty barren on this side

Genuine question;

If the rules for my gang are spread over several books, why does that mean that I have to carry all of those books around with me? I ask because in my youth I played a lot of AD&D with loads of extra rules, complete class handbooks etc and never felt the need to do anything other than jot down the rules that applied to my character.

I make the analogy with an RPG because isn’t Necromunda really that kind of game? It’s not the kind of thing where you play pickup games against complete strangers and try to win at all cost. At least it isn’t the way I’m going to play it.

Yes, this is the issue with many gamers who haven't played a casual game in so long they forget what it's like not to have to prove the other player wrong with a rule book. :-)

When I play pick up games... 40k, (Soon to be Necromunda) or whatever. If the person I am playing against said"I don't believe you! prove it! I need to see the book!" then I would say " You win, pack up my stuff and play someone else" no time for idiots like that.

**Baxx**

Ahh yes patience grows thin with that.

The card size actually is a problem, so much so I prefer printing my own in magic size. That allows for printing my own versions of limited event cards. The cards I got from necromunda was partially damaged (marked) so you could notice it on the back. Some bonus cards I got for Blood Bowl got a noticable different shine to them so they were also visible on the back. Just making my own cards fixes all that.

**Sqorgar**

The cards in Underhive are the same size as the larger cards from Warhammer Quest. According to BGG, you can use these sleeves (most seem to be for Dixit, but will have an extra 10mm sticking off the end). Not sure any of them have solid backs. The cardboard GW uses for cards gets damaged way too easily.

**zamerion**

If 3 of them are already done...

**streetsamurai**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the subject of the 'phased rules' introduction.....

Do feedback to GW.

Me, I'm not opposed to an annual or biannual injection of new rules. Not only can it keep stuff fresh for us, but also provides opportunities to fully publish errata and FAQs etc. In a way, these books seem somewhere between the concept of a Codex or Battletome, and an irregular 'fanzine' such as Fanatic! used to produce.

But, I for one want a bit more content. Gang War 1 is of course quite busy as things go, as it's introducing the campaign and Sector Mechanicus rules. So that's definitely content I want - but is it a level of content I'm going to keep paying for every few months?

Gang War 2? It needs to have much, much more content than just Orlocks, Hive Scum and those new tiles. Now that's not to say that's all we're set to get (we don't really know at this stage), but I'm certainly hoping that's not the sum of it.

I can see why they're doing this approach. It's a way to a steady Necromunda revenue, traditionally a weakness of their Specialist Games wing. Gives us a reason to keep spending our pennies on that game. But it's a release model that's had a lukewarm reception at best.

If it is indeed a necessity, tell GW what you would be happy to pay for in that regard. Let them know where your threshold is.

It also has rules for Hanger ons and civilians IIRC

**insaniak**

zamerion wrote:

If 3 of them are already done...

They may do more. They may have only chosen to make three out of those designs. GW produces considerably more concept art than they do miniatures.

**Cryptek of Awesome**

Hollow wrote:
Da-Rock wrote:
MonkeyBallistic wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
I really like the new rules, and I plan to buy all the gang wars book, but it,'s obvious this will turn into a rule clustef**k where you have to carry a dozen books, each with a different trading post, and a few hired guns.

I'll also say that the fluff in the main book seems to be new. Though I hope thee next gang wars book will have more fluff cause the first one is pretty barren on this side

Genuine question;

If the rules for my gang are spread over several books, why does that mean that I have to carry all of those books around with me? I ask because in my youth I played a lot of AD&D with loads of extra rules, complete class handbooks etc and never felt the need to do anything other than jot down the rules that applied to my character.

I make the analogy with an RPG because isn’t Necromunda really that kind of game? It’s not the kind of thing where you play pickup games against complete strangers and try to win at all cost. At least it isn’t the way I’m going to play it.

Yes, this is the issue with many gamers who haven't played a casual game in so long they forget what it's like not to have to prove the other player wrong with a rule book. :-)

When I play pick up games... 40k, (Soon to be Necromunda) or whatever. If the person I am playing against said"I don't believe you! prove it! I need to see the book!" then I would say " You win, pack up my stuff and play someone else" no time for idiots like that.

When I play pickup games against strangers I like to give them the benefit of the doubt about rules/armies I don't know - but if I'm really curious I look it up after the game. On the flip side, out of courtesy I always have all the rules for my army with me when I play against new people and certainly don't have any problem with them reading my rules mid-game if they're confused about how something works or are just surprised by a special gear/rule. With friends of course a much more casual atmosphere is expected and jotting down a special rule on the gang roster should be sufficient.

I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.

Reading through the book so far and my only complaint is the lack of atmospheric landscape art. Lots of character profiles but not many images of the underhive. So many pictures from the original sparked my imagination of the environment - the danger and decay - but also the sense of scale and hidden treasures that might lie buried.

**decker_cky**

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.

Everything I've read seems to indicate that Orlocks will be the only gang in Gang War 2. Has another gang been confirmed for gwar2 anywhere?

**BrookM**

Gang War 2 will no doubt tease what gang will be next for Gang War 3, as the first Gang War book opened up with a report mentioning both the Escher and Goliath fighting, but the Orlock also being involved. No other gang was mentioned.

**Voss**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Voss wrote:
Dr. Mills wrote:
I sense my next project being house Orlock Gangers being pressed into service as Armageddon Hive Defense Conscripts!

They seem a perfect fit for Brood Brothers to me.
That's the benefit of them being so generic. And I know that sounds like a dig at the miniatures, but it really isn't. The Orlocks were the jack of all trades gang, and these modular excellent plastics are, in effect, a jack of all trades human miniature, capable of being used for a whole range of different things with minimal converting, and maybe a bit of kit bashing. They're fantastic.

The new Goliaths are the best version of a concept I was never 100% on board with to begin with, I don't think the Eschers live up to Jes' originals, and while I like both new gangs the Orlocks are by far my fav of the bunch so far. I do hope my Delaques are treated as well.

I feel the same way. Goliaths are certainly living up to their name, but... I don't want that.
The Eschers are... off. Its partly the outfits and the shoes, but also the proportions and the CAD. Somehow they aimed for 'buff and skinny' at the same time and ended up with 'chunky.'
But then I haven't liked a single GW CAD model that has tried to show off a lot of flesh and muscle. They never look right, and the highlights in the 'for photography' paint jobs make 'em look worse.
The Khornate Bloodinators from AoS are particularly harmed by both the CAD and the paint jobs: I'm convinced that torsos shouldn't look like an inverted pyramid festooned with rows of lumps.

The Orlocks, on the other hand, look like people.

**Cryptek of Awesome**

decker_cky wrote:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.

Everything I've read seems to indicate that Orlocks will be the only gang in Gang War 2. Has another gang been confirmed for gwar2 anywhere?

Whoa - I think I just assumed that from having two gangs in the first set of rules and seeing concept art for two more gangs. Wow - one gang only in GW2? That seems really slow.

**decker_cky**

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
decker_cky wrote:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.

Everything I've read seems to indicate that Orlocks will be the only gang in Gang War 2. Has another gang been confirmed for gwar2 anywhere?

Whoa - I think I just assumed that from having two gangs in the first set of rules and seeing concept art for two more gangs. Wow - one gang only in GW2? That seems really slow.

Expensive and annoying more than slow. Remember, around the time of Gwar2 (~3 months from now), we expect the two cultist lists, and around the time of Gwar3 (~6 months from now) we expect the bounty hunters list, so within 6 months of the release there will be 6 full lists including 3 new plastic gangs, and 4 legacy gangs available. I don't like the release schedule they're following, but I get why they're structuring like they are (they want the printed core gangs full of unique equipment rather than being 6 variants of the same list).

At least the release schedule is much fast than Blood Bowl.

I'm hoping GW puts the legacy gangs up for print on demand sooner rather than later.

**streetsamurai**

decker_cky wrote:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
decker_cky wrote:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.

Everything I've read seems to indicate that Orlocks will be the only gang in Gang War 2. Has another gang been confirmed for gwar2 anywhere?

Whoa - I think I just assumed that from having two gangs in the first set of rules and seeing concept art for two more gangs. Wow - one gang only in GW2? That seems really slow.

Expensive and annoying more than slow. Remember, around the time of Gwar2 (~3 months from now), we expect the two cultist lists, and around the time of Gwar3 (~6 months from now) we expect the bounty hunters list, so within 6 months of the release there will be 6 full lists including 3 new plastic gangs, and 4 legacy gangs available. I don't like the release schedule they're following, but I get why they're structuring like they are (they want the printed core gangs full of unique equipment rather than being 6 variants of the same list).

At least the release schedule is much fast than Blood Bowl.

I'm hoping GW puts the legacy gangs up for print on demand sooner rather than later.

I think it would be a pretty good schedule release if it wasn't for the fact that the game was released with only 2 gangs. That's unacceptable, even moreso for a company as big as GW

**JohnnyHell**

decker_cky wrote:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
decker_cky wrote:
Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
I'll only be really sad if they stick to just two gangs per Gang War book - that would add up fast.

Everything I've read seems to indicate that Orlocks will be the only gang in Gang War 2. Has another gang been confirmed for gwar2 anywhere?

Whoa - I think I just assumed that from having two gangs in the first set of rules and seeing concept art for two more gangs. Wow - one gang only in GW2? That seems really slow.

Expensive and annoying more than slow. Remember, around the time of Gwar2 (~3 months from now), we expect the two cultist lists, and around the time of Gwar3 (~6 months from now) we expect the bounty hunters list, so within 6 months of the release there will be 6 full lists including 3 new plastic gangs, and 4 legacy gangs available. I don't like the release schedule they're following, but I get why they're structuring like they are (they want the printed core gangs full of unique equipment rather than being 6 variants of the same list).

At least the release schedule is much fast than Blood Bowl.

I'm hoping GW puts the legacy gangs up for print on demand sooner rather than later.

And dilute the market for the incoming shiny plastics? I don't see it myself. Plus they'd be selling models they don't have rules in the Legacy pack for, so...

**decker_cky**

JohnnyHell wrote:
And dilute the market for the incoming shiny plastics? I don't see it myself. Plus they'd be selling models they don't have rules in the Legacy pack for, so...

GW has done the print on demand for a fair bit of the blood bowl range already. If GW followed the blood bowl template, then it would just be the basic 8-man box sets re-released, which means that all of the equipment should be available in the legacy rules (think they all had a heavy stubber as the heavy in the box set).

**TheAuldGrump**

*Grumble*

Okay, starting with the Good - I love those models, and will be buying them. Hurray! (No, that is not a sarcastic Hurray!. I genuinely like all the models I have seen for the game.)

The Bad - if what I am reading on how the rules are coming out is correct.... I will not buy the danged rules until all the core gangs have their content. Which means I am not buying Gang War until next year.

The Ugly - which means that I will be running Oldermunda in a few weeks - but buying Underhive for the models and tiles. (The new Goliaths are literally head and shoulders above the older models, while the Escher have suffered a lot less scale creep than I had feared. And, honestly, given how much better the new Goliaths look than the old ones - I will quite happily live with that scale creep. They are head and shoulders better in quality, not just scale.)

If there is a compendium... I will be much happier.

But, either way - I love those models.

The Auld Grump

**Neronoxx**

Aren't they releasing a compendium for all the blood bowl rules? I would imagine a necromunda compendium is a safe bet.

**decker_cky**

Blood bowl compendium is the 2 deathzones and all white dwarf rules (ie, not the basic core rules).

I'm hoping the core rules and the deck of cards become available outside the box set, since I don't like being forced to buy all the 2D game terrain.

**Yodhrin**

decker_cky wrote:
Blood bowl compendium is the 2 deathzones and all white dwarf rules (ie, not the basic core rules).

I'm hoping the core rules and the deck of cards become available outside the box set, since I don't like being forced to buy all the 2D game terrain.

Someone on Facebook posted a response from GW stating that they don't intend to release the rules outside the core box, even as digital. Which sounds utterly insane, but when people made that observation a bunch of shiny defenders leapt in to insist it was super clever of them and totally reasonable, so who knows.

**decker_cky**

Yodhrin wrote:

Someone on Facebook posted a response from GW stating that they don't intend to release the rules outside the core box, even as digital. Which sounds utterly insane, but when people made that observation a bunch of shiny defenders leapt in to insist it was super clever of them and totally reasonable, so who knows.

Yeah, I read that. The positivity police make me consider leaving those groups. There's a lot GW has done right with the necromunda release. There's still a lot they could do to help the game succeed. Banning any posts that don't adequately praise GW is silly.

There's no positive reason to force players to buy a $150 box set to get half of a rulebook (for those who want to play 3d necromunda). GW makes a bit more money per player but it will result in a lot less players.

**Mandragola**

I usually give GW the benefit of the doubt online but I think phased releases of models and rules is totally wrong for a campaign-based game like Necromunda.

Our club has tried to have a blood bowl league. At least with blood bowl they gave us all of the rules at the start so we could actually design our teams. Then they released the models... never.

Now for necromunda it seems even more stupid not to even give people the full rules for their gangs. I mean ok, we've got the legacy gang rules to work with and some old models still kicking around but that's really not the same thing at all.

Shadespire is a good example of a game that can be trickled out over however long GW wants to spend on it. You can play it straight out of the box and each new release adds to the game, including refreshing old releases. With no campaign structure nobody misses out when a gang gets released later on.

But how can I even generate interest to start a campaign for necromunda at my club right now, with only 2/6 of the base gangs released? This just feels incredibly short sighted to me.

**Vorian**

They are constrained by how much physical product they can produce - and how much their audience could bare at one time.

They are in it for the long haul, by month 3 or 4 there will be 5 gangs out and a 6th previewed. With, importantly, new stuff coming every quarter at least, for years.

The way they are releasing rules is a bit stupid, admittedly, but you only need one set of rules per group. Enticing new players in at £20 a pop shouldn't be too hard.

Necromunda will be fine.

**Mandragola**

Maybe. Personally I think it'll work for our club to just wait 6 months for all of the gangs to be out and start a league at that point - if ever.

**decker_cky**

Cutting up the rules to release for years to come to get a product not much different from the ruleset that was available for free for 10 years before is pretty silly (although blood bowl has added a few new rules, one year in and two expansions in and it's still missing a number of rules that were part of CRP).

At the pace GW has set, will all the legacy outlander gangs be available in 2 years? Blood bowl is even worse - there's 31 official teams and GW releases 3 teams per year. It will take 10 years to release all the blood bowl teams!

GW needed:
-Rules available without a box set
-Get you by support for all legacy gangs (ie, released outlander models)
-Make old models available from the webstore.

That's all that's necessary for a mostly full game with full model support day 1 AND players have the opportunity to spend more money on GW models.

**H.B.M.C.**

My copies arrived! I have them in a box just waiting to be opened... after lunch.

It's been so long, but new Necromunda is finally here!

**Chopstick**

Okay so this probably give me headache for a week, only 1 out of 5 body for Escher give the Autogun and shotgun a take-aim pose.

Time for some slicing and dicing....

**H.B.M.C.**

The shotgun is a double-barrelled/double mag shotgun though, which is pretty nifty.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Vorian wrote:
They are constrained by how much physical product they can produce - and how much their audience could bare at one time.

They are in it for the long haul, by month 3 or 4 there will be 5 gangs out and a 6th previewed. With, importantly, new stuff coming every quarter at least, for years.

The way they are releasing rules is a bit stupid, admittedly, but you only need one set of rules per group. Enticing new players in at £20 a pop shouldn't be too hard.

Necromunda will be fine.

That is something worth bearing in mind. We’ve had at least one rumour they’re approaching or have hit max capacity in the factory. So it could be more of necessity than we appreciate.

**Albertorius**

Honestly speaking, the pace they're going with the releases, particularly the plastics releases, don't make much sense when you check GW's demonstrated capabilities.

For example, the gang sprues: those are the same "small" sprues that have most units... but most units have two or three of those each. The plastics sprue is larger, but seems to be of a similar size of the sprues of a lot of vehicles.

IOW, they probably could have released sprues for all six houses and the same scenery sprues and it would have amounted to the same sprues that would have had a release with 2-3 new infantry boxes and a vehicle. That doesn't seem too much for GW, does it? But they have decided not to do so.