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Here's the still images: (Courtesy of War of Sigmar site)
Honestly, while I am all for this kind of homage to past GW releases I think it's not something you can read into too much. They are clearly poking fun of the 3 biggest "reset the clock" possible releases as a clever way of relating to the fan-base. I don't see much coming out of this for squats other than the Necromunda mini.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/01 23:37:27
Honestly, while I am all for this kind of homage to past GW releases I think it's not something you can read into too much. They are clearly poking fun of the 3 biggest "reset the clock" possible releases as a clever way of relating to the fan-base. I don't see much coming out of this for squats other than the Necromunda mini.
Yeah, Its just going to be for necromunda, squats aren't coming back as an army.
Remember that their homeworld was eaten by nids, so they shouldn't have the numbers or command structure needed to build an army.
Nothing to stop them working as mercs, traders and bounty hunters though.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Remember that their homeworld was eaten by nids, so they shouldn't have the numbers or command structure needed to build an army.
We are talking about the setting that has one thousand super soldiers count as a codex in it's own right?
If nothing else, it could be a small mini-imperium codex stuff given that they were mostly part of the IG with a few units rather then a full "army" akin to Ogryns.
Remember that their homeworld was eaten by nids, so they shouldn't have the numbers or command structure needed to build an army.
We are talking about the setting that has one thousand super soldiers count as a codex in it's own right?
If nothing else, it could be a small mini-imperium codex stuff given that they were mostly part of the IG with a few units rather then a full "army" akin to Ogryns.
Space Marines are genetically engineered super soldiers armed with power armor and the best equipment the imperium has to offer. They were created by the Emperor to be soldiers. And they still have a command structure as well as the resources of the Imperium behind them. Are squats genetically engineered super soldiers crafted by the Emperor to be soldiers, with a functioning command structure, centuries of military experience, power armor and the resources of the imperium? As an abhuman add on to the Imperial Guard? Sure, might be plausible. As a stand alone army? No, not logistically viable in universe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/01 23:48:14
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
First no, second potentially given that Clans were the primary measure of command. So if a clan offworld survived intact they'd be in perfect shape to continue fighting. Centuries yes, Power armor yes, resources of the Imperium potentially.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: As a stand alone army? No, not logistically viable in universe.
I see literally zero reason why this would be true, especially with all the armies that they've released over the past 3-4 years (Harlis, AdMech, Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults, Custodes, etc.).
Squats, huh? Well, there we have it. They can't do Arbites but we can bring in the 'Dad Joke' of WH40k.
Well, congratulations to anyone who thinks these were cool. There's apparently dozens of 19-year-olds out there that ask me if I 'remember' squats, so let's see if that "If they made them they'd sell!" thing works.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: As a stand alone army? No, not logistically viable in universe.
I see literally zero reason why this would be true, especially with all the armies that they've released over the past 3-4 years (Harlis, AdMech, Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults, Custodes, etc.).
Admech are all over the imperium, Genestealer cults are a constant planetary threat when nids are involved, Deathwatch should be more like special forces (but they do have resources and genetic engineering behind them, so there is sort of a plausibility for them to be standalone), Custodes are absurdly capable warriors to the point that being outnumbered doesn't matter, sort of ditto for harlequins.
Meanwhile, you have squats who have no homeworld, don't have numbers, no longer have access to all the equipment they had or their industrial capabilities, aren't space marine level strong or tough, aren't eldar level agile, don't really any support from the imperium (who are known to treat abhumans like gak. Do you really think they would give abhumans rare power armor if they had the choice?), are on the brink of extinction and aren't overall ubermensch. You might as well ask why we don't have a standalone ratling or ogryn book.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/02/02 00:17:33
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Squats, huh? Well, there we have it. They can't do Arbites but we can bring in the 'Dad Joke' of WH40k.
Well, congratulations to anyone who thinks these were cool. There's apparently dozens of 19-year-olds out there that ask me if I 'remember' squats, so let's see if that "If they made them they'd sell!" thing works.
They sold before. GW stated they were dropped for other reasons beyond sales. I personally love it. With the crap they pump out for the little ones, this is rather nice. (in my opinion of course).
70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Squats, huh? Well, there we have it. They can't do Arbites but we can bring in the 'Dad Joke' of WH40k.
Well, congratulations to anyone who thinks these were cool. There's apparently dozens of 19-year-olds out there that ask me if I 'remember' squats, so let's see if that "If they made them they'd sell!" thing works.
Except for the fact that they did sell and quite well. As has been said by Jervis in his infamous "What happened to the Squats" posting.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: As a stand alone army? No, not logistically viable in universe.
I see literally zero reason why this would be true, especially with all the armies that they've released over the past 3-4 years (Harlis, AdMech, Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults, Custodes, etc.).
Admech are all over the imperium, Genestealer cults are a constant planetary threat when nids are involved, Deathwatch should be more like special forces (but they do have resources and genetic engineering behind them, so there is sort of a plausibility for them to be standalone), Custodes are absurdly capable warriors to the point that being outnumbered doesn't matter, sort of ditto for harlequins.
Meanwhile, you have squats who have no homeworld, don't have numbers, no longer have access to all the equipment they had, aren't space marine level strong or tough, aren't eldar level agile, don't really any support from the imperium (who are known to treat abhumans like gak. Do you really think they would give abhumans rare power armor if they had the choice?), are on the brink of extinction and aren't supermen.
You might as well ask why we don't have a standalone ratling or ogryn book.
And this is why I don't think we will see a squat codex, but we could see a squat unit in IG, oops AM. It would also be very easy to do a squat upgrade vehicle set a troop box and commander. Boom squat army.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: As a stand alone army? No, not logistically viable in universe.
I see literally zero reason why this would be true, especially with all the armies that they've released over the past 3-4 years (Harlis, AdMech, Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults, Custodes, etc.).
Admech are all over the imperium, Genestealer cults are a constant planetary threat when nids are involved, Deathwatch should be more like special forces (but they do have resources and genetic engineering behind them, so there is sort of a plausibility for them to be standalone), Custodes are absurdly capable warriors to the point that being outnumbered doesn't matter, sort of ditto for harlequins.
Meanwhile, you have squats who have no homeworld, don't have numbers, no longer have access to all the equipment they had, aren't space marine level strong or tough, aren't eldar level agile, don't really any support from the imperium (who are known to treat abhumans like gak. Do you really think they would give abhumans rare power armor if they had the choice?), are on the brink of extinction and aren't supermen.
You might as well ask why we don't have a standalone ratling or ogryn book.
And this is why I don't think we will see a squat codex, but we could see a squat unit in IG, oops AM. It would also be very easy to do a squat upgrade vehicle set a troop box and commander. Boom squat army.
Yeah, that's more likely. Hell, it even says in the lore that some IG regiments have squats enlisted, who hope they get to take revenge against nids one day. Maybe they'll get hatred against nids or something to reflect that.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
zedmeister wrote: Except for the fact that they did sell and quite well. As has been said by Jervis in his infamous "What happened to the Squats" posting.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but things that sell well don't get discontinued.
zedmeister wrote: Except for the fact that they did sell and quite well. As has been said by Jervis in his infamous "What happened to the Squats" posting.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but things that sell well don't get discontinued.
They are if you lose copyright of it.
And all discussion about why Squats can't be a force in warhammer 40k based in actual or past lore is pointless. If they want, they will, just like Custodes. A small retcon here, a little new lore added over there and BOOM, squats.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
zedmeister wrote: Except for the fact that they did sell and quite well. As has been said by Jervis in his infamous "What happened to the Squats" posting.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but things that sell well don't get discontinued.
I suggest you read the "What happened to squats" reference. Not only did they sell well, but they continued to do well in epic, a setting better suited to GWs vision of squats.
Galas wrote: They are if you lose copyright of it.
Not sure I'm understanding, was it the name that they lost copyrights to? We're talking about a company that renames their armies to retain copyrights.
Squats were before my time. I think. If they were around during my time, I'm pretty sure they weren't on any tables.
zedmeister wrote: Except for the fact that they did sell and quite well. As has been said by Jervis in his infamous "What happened to the Squats" posting.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but things that sell well don't get discontinued.
Sigh....
Spoiler:
"I know I shouldn't get drawn on this... but... can't... resist
Seriously, a couple of points just so you can have an informed debate based on the real reasons that Squats are no longer available. Be warned, it is going to be hard reading for people that like the Squat background.
First of all, Squats were *not* dropped because they were not selling well. There were then, and are now, plenty of other figure ranges that sell in the sort of % quantaties that the Squats pulled down, especially when you look across all of the ranges produced by GW rather than just those for 40K.
No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what *were* we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realised what we had done when we were working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply regreted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.
Anyway, the Squats made it into 2nd edition, and since we were doing army books for each of the races, we started to try and figure out what to do with them. Unfortunately we just couldn't figure out a way to update them and get them to work that we felt was good enough. The 'art' of working on an army as a designer is to find the thing that you think is cool and exciting about an army, and work it up into a strong theme. This 'muse' didn't strike any of us, and so, rather than bring out a second-rate product simply re-hashing the old background, we kept doing other army books instead, with stuff we did feel inspired by.
Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there was a natural tendancy to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we *should* have done with the Squats in 40K.
In the end (and it took years to really get to the roots of the problem) this led to a realisation that we were going to have to drop the Squats in their 'Squat' form from the 40K background. There was little point having a major race that we weren't willing to make an army book for, and their inclusion in the background meant that people kept asking us when we'd do a Squat Codex. Instead we decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet. This would give us the option in the future to return to making a race based ont he Squat archetype for 40K. This race was given the name of Demiurg, and a certain amount of preliminary work was done to get a 'feel' for what the race would be like. At present the only hint of the Demiurg in 40K is the Demiurg spaceship for BFG. However, we do have this race 'in our back pocket' as a possible new race for 40K, or an interesting character model in Inquisitor, or whatever. So far the Demiurg have lost out to other projects, and it may be that their time never actually comes, as they will have to win through on their merits, not simply because we once made some Squat models in the past. At present, I have to say that it is more lilely that they *don't* make the cut than do, as there is a certain predudice these days to simply taking races from Warhammer and cross them over to 40K like we did in the early days, so it may be that the Squats/Demiurg end up remaining a footnote in the history of the 40K galaxy. Only time will tell...
The second point I'd like to make is about 'old moulds'. In the past, Mail Order in the UK and US used to be the place that we kept all of the retired moulds for Citadel Miniatures, and we used to offer a service where you could order any Citadel Mniature ever made from MO. However, there are now so many of these 'back catalogue' miniatures that it is simply impossible to keep all of the old moulds in Mail Order and offer this service. Instead, we pick and choose which back catalogue miniatures are kept available. At present we're still struggling to produce special catalogues for these ranges (in the US there is the 'Phone Book' catalogue with everything in it, while the UK has special 'collectors guides' that are themed round a race). Once we've ironed out the kinks in the way we deal with the range of collectors models we want to keep permenantly available, the plan is to offer up other parts of the back catalogue for limited periods of time. In effect this will divide the back catalogue into three parts: a range of classic models that are permenantly available, a range of classic models we dip into and bring out for a limited release, and a range of retired models that will no longer be sold either because we've decided that they are embarrassingly bad, or because we are no longer allowed to sell them due to licencing agreement changes. So far we're still slowly working on deciding which classic models we want to keep permenantly available, and its going to take several years to work through just those. The old Squat range is most likely to end up as retired models, I have to say, though there is a good chance that the Squat war engines they could simply into the limited release classic range. Once again, only time will tell...
I'll finish off by saying that whatever we decide to do 'officially', there is nothing stopping players with Squat armies from using them, either in Epic or 40k for that matter. There is no GW 'rule' against using old Citadel Miniatures, as long as you use them with exisiting army lists and in a way that won't cause confusion for other players. I recommend taking a positive stand by saying "Have you seen these cool old models? They're called the Squats and GW used to make them back in the late eighties/early nineties. I love 'em, so I count them as Imperial Guard and use them with the current rules..." Put like this I can't imagine that anyone would stop you from using your army.
Galas wrote: They are if you lose copyright of it.
Not sure I'm understanding, was it the name that they lost copyrights to? We're talking about a company that renames their armies to retain copyrights.
Squats were before my time. I think. If they were around during my time, I'm pretty sure they weren't on any tables.
I read the parts about the copyright, but the tone seemed to be more centered on the fact that the designers didn't have a vision for them and didn't like the current Dwarfs in Space theme. So I agree that they could have done something like they are now about copyright, but in the end, they sold as well as other armies at the time, but GW didn't like them.
70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them.
zedmeister wrote: Or you could have actually looked up what I was referring to in my original post that you quickly dismissed.
Yeah, I've got better things to do that Google 'what happened to the Squats'. The answer for me was 'Tyranids', and it was good enough. IMHO, they're a silly grab-ass element that probably needs to stat dead and buried like 'Ork's Rift'. Look THAT one up.
Like I said, I'm pretty sure they weren't the dominant force and had GW had the slightest hint they'd be cash-cows they'd have slapped together SOMETHING for lore. From a company that's pulled some of the most absurd and head-scratching explanations and lore changes out of their ass, the whole "We didn't know where to go with them" just doesn't feel genuine. And in my experience, a lot of businesses don't like to come out and say 'they just didn't sell', mainly because people don't look at things in terms of the resources available, time spent on the project, profitability compared to other similar products, etc.
An example would be the old game, 'City of Heroes'. Money was the reason it shut down. It was -making- money, but that doesn't mean it was sustainable.
I mean, FFS you can take Blimp Dwarves or whatever they're called in Sigmar and easily slap 'Warhammer 40k' on the box and port them over as Squats. You'd think if they were profitable they'd have done it.
You know, like those metal sisters they can't seem to sell off, despite every forum and comment section being clogged with people demanding them.
The words and passion may be there, but as far as I can see the money just wasn't.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: As a stand alone army? No, not logistically viable in universe.
I see literally zero reason why this would be true, especially with all the armies that they've released over the past 3-4 years (Harlis, AdMech, Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults, Custodes, etc.).
Don't forget, Squats weren't allowed to procreate if not on their Homeworld that was eaten.
All Squat reproduction was moved there. So if ANY Squat, ANYWHERE in the universe wanted to have children.... had to go back to the home planet.
They're not like the dirty Eldar who just do it anywhere.
zedmeister wrote: Or you could have actually looked up what I was referring to in my original post that you quickly dismissed.
Yeah, I've got better things to do that Google 'what happened to the Squats'. The answer for me was 'Tyranids', and it was good enough. IMHO, they're a silly grab-ass element that probably needs to stat dead and buried like 'Ork's Rift'. Look THAT one up.
Like I said, I'm pretty sure they weren't the dominant force and had GW had the slightest hint they'd be cash-cows they'd have slapped together SOMETHING for lore. From a company that's pulled some of the most absurd and head-scratching explanations and lore changes out of their ass, the whole "We didn't know where to go with them" just doesn't feel genuine. And in my experience, a lot of businesses don't like to come out and say 'they just didn't sell', mainly because people don't look at things in terms of the resources available, time spent on the project, profitability compared to other similar products, etc.
An example would be the old game, 'City of Heroes'. Money was the reason it shut down. It was -making- money, but that doesn't mean it was sustainable.
I mean, FFS you can take Blimp Dwarves or whatever they're called in Sigmar and easily slap 'Warhammer 40k' on the box and port them over as Squats. You'd think if they were profitable they'd have done it.
You know, like those metal sisters they can't seem to sell off, despite every forum and comment section being clogged with people demanding them.
The words and passion may be there, but as far as I can see the money just wasn't.
I think the problem here is that your are making statements without actually knowing. We all know what assuming does.
As I said before, I think the design team hated them and that's why they died. This also took place when GW was smaller and had more "Gamer types" in control. Possibly before they went public...not sure.
70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them.
2018/02/02 01:06:54
Subject: Necromunda Underhive - Orlock sprue pics and other news pg 74
Good catch. Now the question is are they still poking fun or giving us a hint? Also anyone with eagle eyes able to spot anything interesting on Duncan's table?
This says it all "plastic sisters of battle" instead of whatever latinese crap word they want to call it. This should tell you from the get go it is all a JOKE
Personally I dislike Squats, but I don't know why some people is so efusive about how they hate them. Is like... if they want to bring them back, whatever, is not like GW will make me buy them.
And yeah "But I'll face them!" better for you, you'll be able to kill them. But maybe this is the Tau player on me, that has grown a thick skin after years of "Tau aren't proper 40k!"
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/02 01:27:24
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
~4100
~1660
70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them. 
-- $k 
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